I think I know why dems have been losing..........

[zalinda]

Okay, let's put aside the stolen elections. We should have landslides, rather than close calls. What has been wrong? Why can't we get our message across? We know we speak for the majority of the people, so how come our elections aren't a cake walk?

Listening to Al Gore's speech gave me a duh moment. Schools have been systematically dumbed down, as has our news outlets. Let's face it, the majority doesn't understand 1/4 of the words that Gore used. That may be the reason why the dems are called the elite. We talk over their heads. I have to admit, I had to really pay attention to what he was saying to understand through context some of the words he was using. I cannot imagine what joe average who graduated from an inferior high school could understand.

If the deaf have an interpreter, we may have to have an "uneducated" interpreter. How do we dumb down our dems speeches without losing our "elite"? It is time that we learn how to call a tulip, a tulip, instead of Tulipa pulchella. Until we can bring up the school standards, we have to do our best to communicate on our electorates level. We will continue to be called snobs and the elite until we can talk to the average American as equals. This is where Clinton ruled. Too bad he's too busy to impart his words of wisdom to those who are planning to run, because these people certainly need to reach the common people.

This talking above the average person may be one of the reasons our candidates don't get as much face time in the press as repubs. News outlets do know their subscribers. They want sound bites, not paragraphs that need to be explained.

How do we make our dems understand this? Bush "won" because he could be understood. And, yes, he lied, too. But, people knew what he was saying and they didn't feel inferior to him because he was understood. It maybe that the repubs have gotten this country to believe that using big words is just a way to show off that you think you are better than they are.

I know I have talked to people who didn't like Kerry, and didn't know why. They believed in everything he stood for, but for some reason couldn't vote for him. Maybe the reason has more to do with language than we realize.

zalinda

[dchill]

1. "We should have landslides, rather than close calls"

And how can we know that we didn't? I mean, seriously. Who is counting the votes?

[chefgirl]

13. That was my first thought too

I also do agree that schools have been systematically dumbing down our youth. All you have to do to find proof is look at that idiotic system the little moron put in place in TX.
Kids MUST pass the test, so teachers spend from Sept. till May just teaching the test. WTF is that?? It's not education, thats for sure.

Interestingly, I was speaking with a friend who is a true middle of the roader politically.. he thinks both parties have lost their way. I was asking for his opinion as to why so many red-staters utterly despise blue staters.
His take on it was that, for so long, the red staters have felt castigated and diminished by the 'intellectual elite' for lacking a certain amount of 'book smarts' as they call it. They've been waiting for a long time for the egg-heads to 'get theirs', and now that they have managed to get themselves a president who celebrates ignorance and a lack of intellectual curiosity, they've finally got their vengeance. He's made it OK to be mentally lazy and not look any further past yourself than the next episode of 'Walker, Texas Ranger' or 'The Power Hour', so they are devoted to him because he doesnt ask anything of them except their vote.

Interesting theory that has been running around in my head ever since.

-chef-

[dchill]

18. "Dear Leader" IS "mentally lazy"...

but not so mentally lazy that he doesn't know that it benefits him in a huge way to keep everyone else that way. His misadministration knows that wedge issues like abortion and "intelligent design" and "tort reform" keep everyone at each other's throats, and more importantly, they keep us away from real issues. To my mind, a political "middle-of-the roader" is either a coward or a fool (and mentally lazy.) Usually both.

It seems to me that a great majority of us do NOT believe that killing or torturing innocent people to "spread democracy" is a good way to make friends. And we must not forget that under our system, EVERYONE is presumed to be innocent. It also seems to me that most of us do not believe that Christ is coming with a terrible, swift sword to kill all the mud-people, the poor, the Democrat, the Liberal. Yet the right wing political forces who now control all the branches of our government DO seem to believe exactly that - to the point of making it into law, of amending it into our Constitution. This is why ALL religion must be kept out of government.

So, a little "mentally lazy" among the populace goes a long way towards allowing them to achieve their goals. Call me crazy, but not mentally lazy.

[chefgirl]

I couldn't agree more about the National Idiot

But, the friend I was talking about is far from mentally lazy. I would call him disgusted with American politics.

One of the things I've had to learn, especially in the last five years, is that there really ARE middle of the roaders out there, and rather than hold that against anyone, Ive had to come to terms with the fact that not everyone in this country views politics as the priority that people like us here at DU do. I don't agree with it, mind you, but its not always mentally lazy or cowardly.
Besides, its very often those middle of the roaders who are able to step back and tell people from both sides the hard truths about their respective political ideals that they maybe they need to hear, but don't particularly want to face.

I have to disagree with you on this point, however:
It seems to me that a great majority of us do NOT believe that killing or torturing innocent people to "spread democracy" is a good way to make friends.

Have you listened to some of these RWers? Ordinary people who are not only NOT interested in making friends, but think the Idiot's policies toward killing and torturing innocent people to spread democracy are exactly what we should be doing. Moreover, they truly believe that because most Dems are opposed to these principles, we are weak on National Defense.
I do call that mentally lazy.

-chef-

[dchill]

27. OK, so I wasn't really talking about "Making friends"...

It's really about not making even more enemies, about not INVITING their religious fanatics to attack us. Believe me, a majority of us do not want this to happen. That is why the mentally lazy among us are "buying" the specious argument that "we fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here." If we do not repudiate this president, this philosophy, this religious war - then we surely will be fighting them here. I think a great majority of us don't rerally want that.

Can we find some common ground there?

;)

[chefgirl]

30. Of course!

Dude/Dudette, lol,

You're preaching to the choir here. I agree that the mentally lazy RW electorate is the absolute root of ALL these problems, with the National Idiot leading the pack. (that, and a little help from Diebold)

I was just merely defending my friend. This is, in no way, a mentally lazy person.

And my disagreement, I guess, was with the words 'great majority'. I still disagree that a 'great majority' DON'T want this war.

In fact, I'll go you one better and say that those same RW dime store cowboys would LOVE to hear that the terraists are on their way here, cause they would finally get their chance to blow away some 'ragheads'. Until they actually had to face them here, that is. I think thats yet another one of the markers of the mentally lazy.

-chef-

[dchill]

32. "Until they actually had to face them here, that is."

My point exactly. That would place them in the 'great majority'. Albeit unwittingly.
:)

BTW, it's Dude.

[sendero]

22. Your friend..

... is 100% correct IMHO. There's a little more to it than that, but that is at the root of it.

[chefgirl]

24. I agree

The more I've thought about it the more Ive come to that same conclusion.

-chef-

[sendero]

25. As a smart man once said.....

...

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)

[chefgirl]

26. Oh how prescient!

And oh, how true.

-chef-

[Burma Jones]

2. Nice

And True......

I think it's a big reason the Republicans get more celebrities to run as opposed to we Dems who prefer actual public servants. The Celebs are picked precisely for their communication skills - the 'Pukes will run a "spokesmodel" like Reagan while the brains work behind the scenes.....

[rg302200]

3. I have been saying this ever since Bush stole the election in 2000....

I graduated college in '04 with a degree in middle childhood education and in my limited time I have been teaching in public schools, I have witnessed the stupidity of our future leaders. I wish I could say it with a little less harshness but to truly understand the impact Bush has had on our schools, stupidity is the only word that applies. Bush's No Child Left Behind Act did nothing but cripple the schools of our nation and in turn helped him to realize his goal of dumbing down the population.

An uneducated population is a complacent population.

[bleedingheart]

7. hmmm...you are saying that all the kids in your class are dumb?

even the future leaders?

Having teachers who think that doesn't help and I think that the parents play a role as well.

Funny though...I have volunteered in schools locally and I find the children to be as bright as they ever were. I just don't fall for the Bush hype...he thinks if he tells us we are stupid we will eventually believe him. I think it is just a tactic for him to assume his future role as dictator.

[rg302200]

12. Let me clarify myself

I did not mean the children were stupid, as in not smart enough to get into college. What my words meant was, that the students are quick to believe whatever Bush and the Repukes tell them without actually backing up what they say with facts. To them Rush tells them everything they need to hear. The students are smart....but not smart enough to see the BS that Bush heaps on to them. And to blindly follow an ignorant leader such as Bush is to truly be stupid. No other way to say it!

[bleedingheart]

14. and that is where it is important for the role models in the children's

lives to make a difference.

I had a history teacher in high school who was one of the greatest orators I have ever encountered, the man had the entire "Cross of Gold" speech memorized and would give that speech in the same tone that Willim Jennings Bryan had...it was awe inspiring. He would encourage debate and encourage thought among us. The open minded liberal I am today is in part to do that man and my mother.

[rg302200]

15. You can't take a stand today

I would be railroaded out for making it known I was a liberal. You should have seen it in the '04 election when I told my fellow teachers I was voting for Kerry. They ostracized me and when word got back to my students I had angry parents calling in telling me they didn't want their kids exposed to some "lib" who supports gay marriage and the taking away of my guns.

Yet the math teacher down the hall would use nothing but Repuke talking points in her lessons all day long. As in "One graph chart shows low numbers while the other shows high numbers..which one would libs use to back up their claims of high unemployment." Nothing was ever said to her.

True story....I couldn't make that up!

[bleedingheart]

4. To be honest I yearn for more serious discourse in this nation

I yearn for a more intelligent speaker.

There was nothing in Gore's speech which isn't a standard part of High School Civics and Government.

I refuse to be spoken to like I am dumb, in fact that is what Gore pointed out regarding the lack of intelligent debate. People are just giving in without facts because the media and the right wing is convincing people that they don't need the facts...just some sound bites.

To summarize Gore's speech. We are in a constitutional crisis. The Executive branch is usurping too much power for itself and the Legislative and Judicial branches are being either coerced to comply or going along to get along. We can either live in a democracy or a dictatorship. Those are the choices and he challenged the congress, supreme court and the people of the USA to do something about it.

[Olney Blue]

5. However, this was not a campaign speech today from Gore.

It was a speech to an audience that included constitutional scholars, and I think his
lofty, intellectual language was perfect for this setting.

That said, I agree with you that "connecting" with the general populace
by speaking plainly is a wonderful skill (Bill had it), and we need this to win. However, it
could also be that when this misadministration plays out, people might actually
be hungering for someone who can actually speak the English language.

Well, we can hope anyway!

[leveymg]

6. Fox News is such a dumb-it-down Interpreter. So is *

Are you saying we need Left versions?

Could we possibly compete for dumbness? I hope not.

[meow2u3]

9. No. Our challenge is to translate erudite language

to everyday English without sounding condescending. In other words, let's just get our message across in plain English, including well-placed zingers. The snappier the comebacks the better.

[IChing]

8. Yes, he used four and five syllable words like:

Constitution, investigation, independent but
what the "heck" he wasn't folksy.

[candice]

10. It's not the morons who shoud be setting the agenda!

"Let them tap my phone, all I am saying is "Give Democracy a Chance: Gore/Dean 2008."

And why do we have to have 'the best government that money can buy' as Gore Vidal so aptly put it?

[Burning Water]

23. Morons get to vote, too.

If we want their votes, we need to address them at their level. Doesn't mean we can use elegant and sophisticated language among ourselves.

[Village Idiot]

11. I can't buy all of this.

Bush "won" the first time because of Jebbie and Karen and Antonin et. al.
Bush "won" the second time by systematically disenfranchising Democratic voters and hacking e-Vote machines.

He has not won a presidential election, yet remains in power. Sounds very fascist, to me.

[blm]

16. I want an America that WANTS AND RESPECTS sincere and elegant leadership

and a people who understand that nuance is a DESIRED CHARACTERISTIC in the thought process of those leaders.

[punpirate]

17. I don't think the guy...

... with an eighth-grade education, laid off from Henry Ford's assembly line in 1932, had any trouble understanding Roosevelt when he described the problems of the country as stemming from "the malefactors of great wealth."

Not a bit.

What struck people today, from what I've read here, is what Gore said, not just that he said it eloquently and powerfully. Maybe, just maybe, it was because what Gore said needed to be said, forcefully, and no one in the current government has done that.

As for the news outlets knowing that their subscribers like soundbites, cable is on the far low end of the viewership scale in this country--network news still dominates, and they've all been losing market share steadily over the last few years. People are turning off the news, because there's nothing on it but soundbites. No, the reason why the news is the way it is can be summed up in one sentence, from Sumner Redstone: "I'm a Democrat, but I'm also the head of Viacom and I think the Bush administration is best for Viacom."

[kentuck]

19. There may be some validity to what you say but...

I tend to think the American people know the truth when they hear it, even if they don't understand every word. George Bush is a great Elmer Gantry-type propagandist. To offer up a new plan for education or a new trade bill is not the type of response Americans will choose. Al Gore said George Bush has been breaking the law repeatedly and persistently. People understand that at the personal level.

[messiah]

20. Or it's as simple as electing to vote for uncharismatic

people or people with barely any personality to run for president.
Clinton was charismatic, Kerry & Gore are not.

[Lorien]

35. Amen n/t.

[Burning Water]

21. How do we improve

our education system? I think this is the great question. Some of the teachers in my daughter's high school are pig-ignorant. There's no polite way to put it. They don't know their subjects, they can't communicate well either by writing or verbally. If the teachers don't know the subject, how can they teach it??

But getting back to what we can do immediately, I think you are right. Use active rather than passive sentences. If a sentence has a subordinate clause, break it into two sentences. Forget the whereases and therefores. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Speak the truth courageously. Don't try to weasel around what you are saying because it might be unpopular with the immediate audience, say the same thing to everybody. Let people know that you are a stand-up guy (or gal). Point out the mistakes of the current regime without trying to include them all in one breath. Concentrate on one at a time.

Tell the truth. Never back down. Don't try to compromise with bastards.

[leftofthedial]

28. we need a will rogers

to put things in simple, homespun language

[Lorien]

29. In 2000 PBS' "Nightline" stated that the most charismatic candidate

would win time after time. I don't think that "dumbing down" the debate is the answer; having a passionate candidate who speaks eloquently (as Clinton did and still does-and yes, he uses "big words" from time to time) and clearly about the issues will win elections. We've had candidates who were better qualified in Gore and Kerry, but they both sucked the charisma right out of a room, and needed their records to be "studied" to understand with any clarity where they stood on certain issues. Not that I find * "likable" in the least (I don't), but when asked whether * preferred watching baseball outside or in a covered stadium, * answered "outside". When asked the same question, Gore gave a history lesson on the emergence and development of sports stadiums in America. He never answered the question because he didn't want to alienate anyone with a different opinion. A great politician will bring about his or her audience to his or her way of thinking, and won't be so cautious as to appear ashamed of their position.

[zalinda]

33. I can't agree with the charismatic theme

Bush is not charismatic, he turns my stomach and has since the first time I saw him. He is the spoiled brat football hero everyone had in high school. Everyone goes out of their way to please him because he has some sort of power, but most people think he's a jerk.

You have to listen to someone to like them. How long do you suppose you would listen to someone who you can't understand. It becomes a snore fest really fast, and the channel gets turned. Clinton didn't seem to talk down to people and that is the reason he was more popular. When people use large words that you don't hear every day, they seem to be putting on airs to those who don't understand them. No one can tell me that they haven't attended a lecture and have had a difficult time understanding or even paying attention to a speaker who is talking way above your head. How many people drop classes because they can't follow what their profs say, and these are classes you pay to attend.

You don't use big words to talk to children, because they don't understand you. There are adults who vote, who can't understand anything beyond 8th grade. Should the have to study to understand our candidates? Do you think they have the time or the resources?

Leave your "high standards" for after the dems are elected. We can bring them along after the dems are elected. Saying that you won't talk to them at their level, because you won't demean yourself or your message, is really self defeating.

zalinda

[Lorien]

34. Did you even read my post?

I stated that Clinton DID use a varied vocabulary; he doesn't "talk down" to anyone. I said that *I* don't find Bush* charismatic; but face it, MANY DO> How many times have we heard "I'd like to have a beer with him" from "average" voters?

Name ONE CASE where the candidate with no charisma won over the one with charm (and no, you can't use 2000; even if you and I are repulsed by Dubya, it doesn't mean that the rest of America felt the same way. I worked for Gore and attended his rallies; he put people to sleep. He wasn't the same man who was on C-Span today)>

[zalinda]

37. Nixon wasn't even likable

but he won. I don't think charisma has anything to do with it, really. Bush "got elected" because he talked like normal people, that's the only reason people wanted to have a beer with him. I listen to our dems and they have a real problem in reaching the uneducated. Would you trust or vote for someone who comes off like they are better than you because they were educated. That's seems to be the problem. And I can tell you that because I wasn't college educated. I can recognize some of the names of the "great" authors, but I couldn't even begin to tell you what or how they wrote. I never had the college experience, I never bonded over Psychology 101. I'm not even sure what my philosophy is, or called. And I know I use spellchecker religiously so I don't come off sounding like a complete dimwit.

This I know. I am not turned off by stretching my mind to understand what someone has said. I also know that the more I understand a person, and agree with him the more I like them. I think that's where charisma comes in. The charm that wins you over is really nothing more than an understanding of where the person is coming from and agreeing with it. I read some where that all you have to do to get a person to like you is to make them think that you like them. People want to be liked, and when they feel they are liked, they will meet you half way to some sort of relationship. And, of course you shouldn't be an asshole. And, I think it's more likability than charisma. Arnold is more likable than charismatic, and only because of his comedic movies.

And as for Gore, today, I fought to pay attention. I fought to keep my mind from wandering. There were so many words that I didn't know, and tried to make sense of through sentence construction. And, according the the Reader's Digest vocabulary quiz's, my vocabulary is always at the top, missing 1 or 2 at the most. So, my point is, if I have such a difficult time listening to some of our guys, and I WANT to listen, how can a person who doesn't care to listen pay attention. These are the people we need to reach.

zalinda

[guajira]

31. Dems must get rid of "Tax and Spend" label

As long as we allow Rush and Hannity to keep trashing us with labels, we will lose.

When will Dems realize that Americans are tired of government wasting, stealing, giving away and mismanaging our tax dollars??

When will Dems realize that Americans want accountability in government??

When will Dems realize that Americans want politicians who will be honest and stand up for our rights??

Right now we have a bunch of Repuke-lights in the Dem party. Why vote for a Repuke-light, when you can vote for a Repuke? Wake up Dems. We are not losing just elections, we are losing our country and our freedoms!

[dchill]

36. "Bush "won" because he could be understood."

And also because he could be misunderestimated. And because he is a crook who was willing to lie, cheat and steal to win.

[TheMadHatter]

38. As a hated political 'middle of the road' type...

I think it comes down to simple PR. The Repubs are good at it because, at its core, PR is all about deception. For example:

1) Superficiality - Bush is better looking and more charismatic than Kerry. No contest. Clinton was better looking than Bush I, Perot, and Dole. We live in an age of narcissism and how you look counts for a lot, at least to the average 100 IQ voter.

2) Clinton's indiscretions really messed it up for Gore. Yes, you can make the argument that a persons sexual life is private (and that argument is one that I agree with), but a lot of wishy-washy moderates who have kids really don't like to think of their president as a lech who would chase their daughters.

3) For a long time people believed that the Repubs were the party of smaller government and would work to roll back taxes. Of course this is no longer true but it will take a while to recede from the mind of John Q. Public. Most people want to pay less taxes and will vote accordingly.

4) Many people feel that Democrats = socialism. Socialism = bad. I look at Europe and do not see much we should be emulating, save for run-off voting. I realize that this one may get me flamed but oh well.

Personally I wish there was a 'reboot' button that we could push and clear out the whole damn lot of politicians, regardless of a R or D next to their name.

On Edit: Fixed typo.

[Mr.Green93]

39. Got Elitism

much?

[ComerPerro]

40. Republicans win by treating people like idiots

and, all the while, they say to them, "The Democrats think you are stuipd".

Well, I have proof that the Right Wing believes that the public is stupid.

The new talking point is that Bush isn't stupid, but that image is instead just an act Bush uses to appeal to the general public. To paraphrase, to be more accessible to Joe Sixpact, Bush has to act and talk like Joe Sixpack.

This obviously proves that Bush is a fraud and an elitist snob.

But its much more telling than that.

If Bush is really a genius but just acts dumb so people can relate to him, what does that say about his perception of "regular folk"?

If what we are seeing is not the insane ramblings of a moronic dry-drunk, and instead the machinations of a calculating political genius, then we are watching Bush get up in public every day and make a mockery of average American citizens.

He either took his impression of "dumb, plan Americans" way too far over the top, or he and his administration really think that the public is as stupid as Bush pretends to be.