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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 04:45 PM
Original message
The Iraqi chickens have fully come to roost
Iran is a real threat. Iran has nuclear material, Iran has oil money to buy the enrichment technology, Iran has ties to terrorists, and Iran has a NAZI denying nut as President. Iran has a real military. We can't do anything about Iran. Our military is tied up in Iraq. No one will trust a word this administration says. The international community also won't trust them. Thanks to these bozos we are less safe and less able to do anything about it. The next attack may well be nuclear bought from or given by Iran. The adults are doing a heck of a job.
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enigma000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. No one has to trust the administration
Let other countries figure it out for themselves. And I believe the US air force still has a few planes left..........
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Trish1168 Donating Member (371 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. They are an ECONOMIC THREAT. Its not the weapons or nukes.
Read the article below. Iran is not a military threat to the US or Israel. They don't have nukes (according to one intellilgence report, they are 10 years away). Of course, we don't really know....like with Iraq. That's why this is all hype. And what is really behind all this?

Read article below:
.....................................
January 4, 2006 – On November 10th 2005, the Muckraker Report published an article that described one of the unspoken reasons why the United States had to invade Iraq; to liberate the U.S. dollar in Iraq so that Iraqi oil could once again be purchased with the petrodollar. See The liberation of the U.S. Dollar in Iraq



In November 2000, Iraq stopped accepting U.S. dollars for their oil. Counted as a purely political move, Saddam Hussein switched the currency required to purchase Iraqi oil to the euro. Selling oil through the U.N. Oil for Food Program, Iraq converted all of its U.S. dollars in its U.N. account to the euro. Shortly thereafter, Iraq converted $10 billion in their U.N. reserve fund to the euro. By the end of 2000, Iraq had abandoned the U.S. dollar completely.



Two months after the United States invaded Iraq, the Oil for Food Program was ended, the country’s accounts were switch back to dollars, and oil began to be sold once again for U.S. dollars. No longer could the world buy oil from Iraq with the euro. Universal global dollar supremacy was restored. It is interesting to note that the latest recession that the United States endured began and ended within the same timeframe as when Iraq was trading oil for euros. Whether this is a coincidence or related, the American people may never know.



In March 2006, Iran will take Iraq’s switch to the petroeuro to new heights by launching a third oil exchange. The Iranians have developed a petroeuro system for oil trade, which when enacted, will once again threaten U.S. dollar supremacy far greater than Iraq’s euro conversion. Called the Iran Oil Bourse, an exchange that only accepts the euro for oil sales would mean that the entire world could begin purchasing oil from any oil-producing nation with euros instead of dollars. The Iranian plan isn’t limited to purchasing one oil-producing country’s oil with euros. Their plan will create a global alternative to the U.S. dollar. Come March 2006, the Iran Oil Bourse will further the momentum of OPEC to create an alternate currency for oil purchases worldwide. China, Russia, and the European Union are evaluating the Iranian plan to exchange oil for euros, and giving the plan serious consideration.



If you are skeptical regarding the meaning of oil being purchased with euros versus dollars, and the devastating impact it will have on the economy of the United States, consider the historic move by the Federal Reserve to begin hiding information pertaining to the U.S. dollar money supply, starting in March 2006. Since 1913, the year the abomination known as the Federal Reserve came to power, the supply of U.S. dollars was measured and publicly revealed through an index referred to as M-3. M-3 has been the main stable of money supply measurement and transparent disclosure since the Fed was founded back in 1913. According to Robert McHugh, in his report (What’s the Fed up to with the money supply?), McHugh writes, “On November 10, 2005, shortly after appointing Bernanke to replace Greenbackspan, the Fed mysteriously announced with little comment and no palatable justification that they will hide M-3 effective March 2006.”



Is it mere coincidence that the Fed will begin hiding M-3 the same month that Iran will launch its Iran Oil Bourse, or is there a direct threat to the stability of the U.S. dollar, the U.S. economy, and the U.S. standard of living? Are Americans being set up for a collapse in our economy that will make the Great Depression of the 1930’s look like a bounced check? If you cannot or will not make the value and stability of the U.S. currency of personal importance, if you are unwilling to demand from your elected officials, an immediate abolishment of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the fiat money scheme that the banking cartel has used for nearly a century now to keep our government and our people in a state of perpetual debt, than you are faced with but two alternatives, abject poverty, or invading Iran.



The plans to invade Iran are unspoken, but unfolding before our very eyes. The media has been reporting on Iran more often, and increasingly harshly. For the U.S. government to justify invading Iran, it must first begin to phase out the War in Iraq, which it is already doing. Next, it must portray the Iranian President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, as a threat to the region and the world. Finally, once naive American people are convinced the “weapons of mass destruction” that were to be found in Iraq are actually in Iran, coupled with the almost daily media coverage of Iran’s nuclear power / weapons program aspirations, and what we will soon have on our hands is another fabricated war that will result in tens of thousands of civilian lives being lost, all because the political elected pawns in Washington DC lack the discipline to return our currency to a gold or silver standard, end the relationship with the foreign banking cartel called the Federal Reserve, and limit the activities of the U.S. government to those articulated in Article I Section 8 of the Constitution for the United States of America.



When a wayward and corrupt fiscal policy and fiat currency, coupled with runaway government spending, forces a nation to only be able to sustain the value of its currency with bullets, the citizenry of the country involved in wars primarily to sustain its currency have historically first became slaves to their government, and then to the nations that finally conquer them. If you question the validity of such a premise, or whether it could happen to the United States of America, study the fall of the Roman Empire. If you read the right books on the subject, you’ll quickly discover that towards the end of the Roman reign, the Roman Empire was doing exactly what America is doing today; attempting to sustain a failed fiat money system with bullets.



Understanding fiat money is not an easy task, and the Federal Reserve, World Bank, and International Monetary Fund have purposely made it that way. They do not want the American people to realize that the money in their wallet loses its value with each new dollar that they print. They do not want people to understand that our money does not become money until it is borrowed. When the Federal Reserve has money printed, when it is in uncut sheets of paper, it is not yet money. After it is cut, bundled, and placed into the Federal Reserve vaults, it still is not money. It only becomes money once it is borrowed. Consequently, if all debt were to be paid, if the United States didn’t have an $8 trillion national debt and the American people were debt free, and if all loans of U.S. dollars made to foreigners were paid in full, there would be exactly zero U.S. dollars in circulation because it will have all been returned to the vaults of the Federal Reserve. This might seem hard to fathom, but it is the gospel of fiat money.



The major news media in the United States, fed by Washington DC which in turn is fed by the Federal Reserve, literally, has already begun conditioning the American people for invading Iran. Media accounts of Iran’s nuclear ambitions along with amplification of the potential instability and core evilness of Iran’s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, is setting the stage to spring the invasion of Iran on the American people. There does appear to be a direct correlation between the winding down effort underway in Iraq and the increase of anti-Iran rhetoric. How American soldiers ultimately arrive in Tehran is uncertain at this time, but it is reasonable to expect that if the Iran Oil Bourse opens for business in March 2006 as planned, it will only be a matter of time before the United States will have to blow it up.



If the United States invades Iran, or if Israel starts military actions by launches missiles at Iran’s nuclear power facilities, which then opens the door for the United States to intervene, most Americans will believe that our military actions in Iran will be to defend freedom and liberty while spreading democracy, when the truth is that we’ll be fighting a war in Iran because of our nation’s relationship with the Federal Reserve, a so-called bank that is not owned by the federal government, maintains no reserve, and isn’t a bank at all, but a cartel. Just like our war in Iraq, Americans and foreigners will die in battle so that the historical power bankers and brokers; cartel members such as Rothschild, Morgan, Lehman, Lizard, Schrader, Lobe, Kuhn, and Rockefeller to name a few, can continue collecting interest on every single U.S. coin and dollar bill in circulation, while controlling the U.S. Congress to the extent that the U.S. taxpayer becomes the collateral and lender of last resort to cover bad loans and unpaid debts that these institutions create by loaning money to third world countries, some of which are devout enemies of the United States. Remember the $400 billion savings & loan bailout approved by the U.S. Congress during the Reagan Administration? America is still paying for it – you and me, and so will our children and grandchildren.



It is well overdue for Americans, every American, to do whatever it takes to fully understand the relationship between the United States and the Federal Reserve, along with the grave consequences of our current fiat money system; for even if the United States wanted to continue to sustain the supremacy of the U.S. dollar with bullets, it is historically, impossible. When bullets become the commodity to secure a currency, it is a clear sign of devastating calamity looming.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. excellent article...
do you have a link for that?.... :hi: ..does it have it's own thread?
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mediaman007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Question for you...Does the tax cut play into this in any way?
I'm wondering if the wealthy people of America are buy precious metals, rather than investing in the stock market.
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Trish1168 Donating Member (371 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I've read that Buffet has bet against the dollar
though he actually lost money in this bet last year....but if he's into gold stocks lately, then he's been doing well.

Bill Gates is also reputed to have bet against the dollar.

Yes, you can make money if the dollar tanks. I have a book I read which illuminated me on this issue. Its called "The coming collapse of the dollar and how to profit from it" by James Turk.

The problem is that I don't have much money to invest, but I've been trying to get my retired mother to shift her investments over.

The book suggests gold mining stocks and silver and gold bullion and other strategies. I would not invest without reading the book, because it is difficult to evaluate gold mining stocks without some background info. The book goes over the history of currency, which for me was interesting. It makes the case that the gas prices of the '70's was not the fault of Opec, but instead the devaluation of the dollar (its not coincidence that it happened not long after Nixon took us off the gold standard...the currency dropped in value, and for Opec to get paid the same, they had to ask for more dollars).

Yes, wealthy people always know where to put money. We're the ones left holding the bag.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. It is hard to say Iran is ten years away
I also think that Iran is a deep threat to the region. A nuclear armed Hezbollah would be scary indeed.
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Trish1168 Donating Member (371 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Not more than a nuclear Pakistan (done deal there).
The 10 year estimate was one intelligence report. I think no one really knows.

But, lets assume that like Pakistan, they already have the bomb. Lets say they use it. What will happen? They'll be wiped off the face of the earth. It was mutually assured destruction that kept the US and Russia from using nukes. Would it not prevent Iran in the same way? If Iran were to use nukes, it would be suicide, and all of the other countries in the world would be supportive of wiping them off the earth.

Why would Iran want to use nukes against Israel (pre-emptively)? It would be crazy.

Isn't this the same reason that Pakistan has not used its nuclear weapons? And India?

I'm not condoning nuclear proliferation. But I hope that someday, there can be treaties (and subsequent inspectiions) that will rid us of all these weapons.

I just don't think that the issue is the weapons, nor do I think Iran is a threat millitarily.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Pakistan got nukes second
not first which makes some difference. Also, I don't think Iran would use the nuke but would sell or give the nuke to terrorists.
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Trish1168 Donating Member (371 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Like Saddam? Why give nukes to someone who could
turn around and use it against you?

If you owned a gun, would you give to someone who could use it against you?

They used this argument with Saddam, and it made no sense. Besides, you are talking about suitcase weapons, which is not the same as a missile, which requires launchers and codes and such. Those weapons are not easy to hand over to terrorists.

I know I've bought into media hype from time to time, and they are good at scaring all of us. But honestly, I just don't think Iran is a military threat.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Saddam had reason to fear the terrorists would turn on him
but Iran doesn't. Iran has funded and worked with terrorists for decades. While I am not claiming that Iran needs invading this minute, it really is a threat and thanks to these boneheads we can't do anything effective about it.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. The Money Masters.
Check out these 2 videos (links below) for inside scoop on how a few banking families got started in the business and how they have used their enormous wealth to manipulated kings and governments down through history in their efforts to ensure their wealth continues to accumulate. One very profitable exercise has always been in financing armies and wars.

The two videos run approximately 2hr each, but it's time well spent if you want an illuminating look at how financial interests have played a much larger role in wars and historical events than is ever acknowledged in most high school or even college level history text books.

The videos are in wmv format. You can right click and use "save as" to save to your hard drive first or a left click in IE will start the video playing in Windows Media Player as streaming video. I am not sure how well they work on a dial up link as I was using a high speed connection.

Money Masters Part 1

Money Masters Part 2
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-16-06 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. An important question is"Threat to whom?"
Israel is the answer.

Not the U.S., except that by supporting Israel and its theocratic government, we have enraged the Muslim world.

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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-17-06 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
13. The Iranians didn't start the nuclear arms race.
Can't really blame the Iranians for wanting nukes. They know Israel has them and likely has them targeted at Tehran. They know that Iran is a major source of oil, and they know how important their reserves of oil and gas are to the world economy. They know that the neocons preach a message that the US should assert effective control over the world and it's resources. They know from recent history that the US likes to pick on smaller countries with weak and ineffective (or non existent) military forces to hammer on as an example for the rest of the world - sort of as if the Rock busted the chops of a 55 year old guy with a beer gut and a heart condition and then paraded around the ring with the usual "I'm the greatest. I'm the baddest. Don't mess with me" type WWE wrestler's blather.

In this day and age, if you are going to be prepared to stand up to a nuclear power, it increasingly appears like you'll need nukes. The Iranians saw how the US avoided a confrontation with nuclear armed North Korea and went after another soft, effectively defenseless target, Iraq, instead.

According to the nuclear arms non proliferation treaty, the non-nuclear powers would agree not to attempt to acquire nuclear weapons, while the powers that already had nuclear weapons agreed to start a process leading to complete nuclear disarmament. Whatever small progress had previously been made to the latter objective, has been effectively curtailed now that the neocons are in charge in the US and are ramping up research and deployment of nuclear weapons once more. In effect they're disregarding their own obligations under the non proliferation treaty which they are so anxious to get everyone else (except Israel) to adhere to.


Article VI

Each of the Parties to the Treaty undertakes to pursue negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear disarmament, and on a Treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/npt/text/npt2.htm
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