"He fought 2 wars. One was in his head" @ 8 eastern: Lincoln

[CatWoman]

on the History Channel.

http://www.historychannel.com/lincoln/index.html

Did you know:

• Lincoln suffered two nervous breakdowns--so severe that both times his friends mounted suicide watches.

• As a young man growing up on the frontier, Lincoln stopped carrying a knife because he feared he might use it to commit suicide.

• In his adult years he wrote a poem contemplating his own suicide, which historians only discovered in the last year--it is included in the film.


• Even in the White House, Lincoln frequently spoke of his fear that he might commit suicide.


• As a rising politician in Illinois, Lincoln developed a reputation for dirty tricks, for writing libelous anonymous letters (he was even challenged to a duel for one), and for the ruthless demolition of his opponents.

• When President Polk went to Congress for authorization of his war against Mexico, Lincoln was a lonely vote against the war.


• This unpopular position, during Lincoln's sole term as a U.S. Representative in Washington, effectively destroyed his political career in Congress. He returned in disgrace to Springfield where he stayed out of public life for five long years.

[AX10]

1. Why do I think this is a hit job on Abe?

:shrug:

[CatWoman]

6. How is this a "hit job"?

[Jacobin]

11. What's wrong with discussing human frailties of presidents?

He obviously was severely clinically depressed. He also overcame his demons to make an enormous difference.

Is it also not okay to mention that he was a white supremacist and the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in the states that seceded.....two years after the civil war started?

I for one like to know factually what people are/were about, and not some glorified claptrap, as in Saint Reagan TV crap

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. A white supremist in the sense that

he felt it would be best if the blacks were resettled in another place, such as Central America. That being said, he WAS for emancipation, and did it in a way that was politically expedient for him. But he was nowhere near as radical as people like Thaddeus Stephens, who wanted full equality.

[FarLeftRage]

2. Looks and sounds like the rw revisionists

have finally infiltrated the history channel...

[lumpy]

9. Not the first time.

x

[tom_paine]

3. "Lincoln was JUST LIKE Bush!"

That is increasingly what The History Channel has become. I get the feeling that they are likely owned by a subsidiary of BushCo and they are getting more naked with their Bush Talking Points.

[linazelle]

12. You are right on target. They'd like to point out everybody else's

frailties in order to pump up their lowlife politicos.

I remember a day about four years ago, when all the media outlets were harping on and on about JFK having had an affair with an aide while in the White House. "He's JUST LIKE Clinton!" in other words. It was sickening to hear it all day long on both radio and television--like a synchronized chorus. When that faded, they started talking about his health problems. I guess that was to imply that he was either (A) a drug addict, or (B) weak--nothing flattering could be concluded from that.

As for the HIS-story channel, they should rightfully rename themselves the propoganda channel. I shudder to think what today's children are learning from the twisted information they continually put out.

[0007]

4. I guess that's why Lanky Link wrestled real live bears publicly

he had a lot of nervous energy.

[American liberal]

5. Times like this I wish I had cable. I'd like to watch this.

Lincoln also lost two children, bankrupted two (at least) business, made several unsuccessful bids for Congress before becoming president, and, yes, suffered from severe depression. Just goes to show...

...Dean's a friggin' rock in comparison. Hahahahahahaha ;-)
(just taking liberties. I'm actually very glad Gov. Dean is heading up the Democratic Party.)

[mandyky]

7. I hope they reshow this one

I will be watching Al Gore's speech on CSpan

[CatWoman]

10. I'm gonna tape Al's speech

so that I can watch this.

Regardless of what some of the posters are saying, this show sounds pretty interesting.

[zippy890]

22. I think its interesting

historians have written that lincoln suffered from 'melancholia' - the term used before depression.

I think its important in terms of understanding mental illness, and even more interesting in th ehistorical sense, that it happened to Lincoln

[H2O Man]

24. It is important

to use care in attempting to try to diagnose any specific "mental illness" to a historic figure like Lincoln. In fact, one is on shakey ground trying to go beyond saying that, at certain times of his life, Lincoln is recorded to have experienced symptoms similar to what would be considered "depression" today. However, when others (not you) use terms like "clinical depression," they expose a lack of insight on their part.

From a historic viewpoint, there is value in noting that people like King is known to have experienced symptoms of depression from his teen years on, as did Lincoln, and if one believes the bible, Jesus as well.

[lumpy]

8. It's called the History Revision channel.

or Dig-up-dirt History Channel, or Muck Rakers Delight Channel.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. A couple of points

The libalous letters were, in fact, written by Mary Todd, and Lincoln took responsibility for them. Mr. Shields was the fellow who challeneged Lincoln, and they went to an island in the Mississippi river to fight it out. Lincoln chose cavelry sabres-Shields was a short fellow, and Lincoln had extremely long arms, and the whole thing was taken as a joke on Lincoln's part-no duel ever happened.

What Lincoln did do as a part of the Illinois General Assembly was to start a series of "improvements" such as roads and canals, many of which were never built; the program actually bankrupted the state. In that way, Lincoln and Bush are a bit alike; both proposed spending to please their constitutents.

Lincoln didn't "destroy" his political career by voting against the Mexican War; there had been an agreement among a group of Whigs to take turns in Congress; that Lincoln decided he might want a second term actually is what made him less than popular. Some Lincoln scholars actually say he stayed out of politics to build up his practice so that he could have a tidy war chest with which to run for Senator or President. He got a lot of money from the Illinois Central; and when they wouldn't pay his fee for solving a complicated case, he sued them and won some $7000, which was quite a haul in those days, and which helped bankroll his bid for higher office.

Perhaps the program is based on newer scholarship than I know; I grew up in Lincoln Land, and have studied Lincoln's life in Illinois since I was in grade school, but haven't read the latest scholarship.

[Zomby Woof]

15. Wish I had that channel at my hotel

Lincoln, no matter how one feels about him pro, con, or in-between, was probably the most singularly complex and fascinating person to ever occupy the President's office.

He was arguably the best writer we ever had as president. His Second Inaugural is poetry. The Gettysburg Address, although nearly cliche with its familiarity, is the most sublime annotation of the American Purpose in the history of our republic.

As for the vociferous criticism he endured in his lifetime, he won over many former detractors, including Frederick Douglass. After personally meeting him in the White House and letting him air his grievances, Douglass's account of their meeting is must-reading. He came to admire Lincoln twentyfold.

As for these bogus charges of "revisionist history", well, history by its very nature is revisionist. The term is equivalent to "organic biology".

[CatWoman]

18. Big Brother Zomby to the "historic" rescue

:hi:

[Zomby Woof]

19. We know the right-wing is evil

But I am sick of this fixation that they infest EVERYTHING these days. :hi:

[mandyky]

16. Is it one hour or?

How is it so far?

[CatWoman]

17. LOL

I decided to tape this show (playing in another room) so that I could watch Keith and Al here in this room :)

Anyways, the schedule says it will run at least two hours :D

I hope that tape is ok and will catch all of it.

[H2O Man]

20. The new book

by Doris Kearns Goodwin is a fascinating read. I strongly recommend it to anyone with an interest in Lincoln.

[Neshanic]

21. No three. Another was in his pants. Ask Joshua Speed.

[CatWoman]

23. that was totally uncalled for

someone's taste is entirely limited to his mouth.

[Neshanic]

25. What? I think that it's entirely appropriate. He slept with men.

[CatWoman]

26. big fucking deal

so do/did I.

Am I having a war in my pants, too?