Drinking bottled water is environmentally irresponsible. And dumb.

[Redstone]

1) It takes fossil fuels and crude oil to make all those plastic bottles. (Not to mention all the shrink-wrap plastic if you buy it by the case.)

2) It takes fossil fuels to deliver all those bottles of water to the stores. (And water is damn heavy, so we're talking a LOT of fuel for delivery.)

3) Look at the side of the road while you're driving to work tomorrow. How many empty water bottles do you see?

4) Even if you do recycle the bottles, it take fossil fuels to melt the bottles to they can be made into something else.

Oh,, the part about dumb: Everyone bitches to NO end about gasoline at three bucks a gallon, but merrily goes and spends eight to twelve bucks a gallon for WATER, tra la, tra la. And doesn't think twice about it.

I know I'll get flamed to no end, but I'll only listen to anyone who can dispute any of the above based on FACTS.

(Anticipating the inevitable: If your tap water doesn't taste good, you can buy a filter.)

Redstone

[havocmom]

1. Iffin ya come visit me sometime, you best bring water

Ours is officially graded as not fit for stock animals.

Guess it all depends on the water ;)

[Redstone]

15. Well, I'm not talking about people who live in the kind of place where

you live, you know that. I'm talking about people who live where there's perfectly good tap water. Which is most people in the US.

How's your summer going?

Redstone

[havocmom]

28. Gettin sorta dry. Didn't get much in the way of June thunderstorms

But not too hot until just recently.

Flowers doing great. Oh, funny thing I'll have to PM you about.

[Redstone]

31. I'll be glad to hear it. Schizophrenic summer weather here.

Not much hope for the gardens.

Redstone

[havocmom]

61. You have mail

:hi:

[Redstone]

80. Got it, and it's appreciated. A lot.

Redstone

[mhatrw]

190. Is chloramine perfectly good for you?

Tell us all how to filter it out, please.

[jmowreader]

223. There's two schools of thought on chloramine

One says you can't get it out. You see this on a lot of sites "concerned citizens groups" put up right after a city goes from chlorine to chloramine.

The other says granular activated carbon filters, if they're big enough, will remove chloramine from water. It seems to take a longer time to separate chloramine from water than it does chlorine. This makes some sense because chloramine is more stable in water than is chlorine...use a faucet-mounted PUR or something small like that, which WILL remove chlorine, and the chloramine will go right through. You're looking at whole-house filters, the bigger the better.

We have chloramine because the government uses coliform bacteria as a fundraiser. They just go to some little town that's got a hundred-year-old municipal water system, get as far as they can from the central treatment plant, draw some water, find coliform above a certain level, and fine the living shit out of the municipality. Free chlorine doesn't stay in the water out that far if it's used at a reasonable level, so they're essentially testing untreated water. They COULD run the chlorine up high enough to deal with the problem, but then the people who live within a mile of the treatment plant get to drink bleach. Chloramine stays with the water out to the end of the lines, and it kills coliform well enough.

[leftofthedial]

227. you're both right

the only solution is for you to stop drinking water altogether.

and you should probably also stop breathing. there's much nastier stuff in the air.

and don't even get me started on food.

you can forget about sex, too. no telling where that person's been.

[riderinthestorm]

125. Yikes. "Blue" water??

I'm not at that point with our well but encroaching suburbia is making it so sulfurous it's unbearable to smell, let alone drink.

I have to scrub buckets and troughs almost daily because the slime from the sludge that comes outta that well - well, it's sick.

We get our human drinking "bottled" water in enormous tanks, I also use filters which require replacement every 2 weeks!

I am furious at what is happening with the aquifers in our area. It's a crime I tell ya!

[havocmom]

154. Havocdad put in a OR filter system but it just isn't doing the trick

The system in his office provides very good water. Ours is only zapping about 1/3 of the salts which is not enough to make the water OK for my system. Anybody know what filter cartridges would be best?

This water is great if one tends toward chronic constipation. Folks around here may be a lot of things, but they are NOT full of shit. Those born and bred here can mostly handle the water. Tourist will wish they were drinking water in some village in Mexico if they consume more than a spoonful of this stuff.

We got us some tender beef growing around here though.

[tsuki]

138. Twice last month, the water company put a hanger on our door

telling us not to drink the water. There was contamination due to a broken line. I drink bottled water.

[havocmom]

152. Ours is so salty we are all hypertensive

Our dishes have a salty film after washing, and we have sea gulls (in Montana!) But we also have really, really soft hair.

Seriously, too many alkaline salts. The water is almost fizzy. Oh, and the local doctor wanna-be sent some off to an independent lab and there is some sort of radiological problem with it too. Evidently we have some odd cancer clusters of something nobody talks about.

[trogdor]

186. There's bottled water...

...and there's bottled water. Getting it by the five gallon bottle (which are usually washed and reused) isn't the same as getting case after case of Aquafina in throwaway plastic.

[havocmom]

187. I miss the old GLASS 5 gallon bottles

As I recall, few people went to a gym back then ;)

[MissB]

2. Plus, bottled water doesn't have to meet the same stringent

federal standards that municipal drinking water does. Bottled water is regulated as a food.

[Roland99]

62. And drinking water is regulated?

Not for long:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1582643&mesg_id=1582643

[mhatrw]

191. How about the chloramine? How do you filter it out? (nt)

[MissB]

226. Well, with chlorine,

you just set the pitcher on the counter and let the chlorine dissipate. Chloramine is a combination of ammonia and chlorine, and water systems use it when they have long runs of pipes through their cities. Because chlorine breaks down faster, it isn't as useful in huge water systems.

It doesn't dissipate as easily. You can use GAC (granular activated carbon) filters. I don't think the Brita filters work for that, but you'd have to read the back of the filter box to be sure.

We get chloramines in our water - I don't worry about it frankly. I know this system like the back of my hand, though. :) I happen to be at the farthest end of any of the major lines. :rofl:

[Kutjara]

3. I'm with W. C. Fields on this one:

"I never drink water. Fish fuck in it."

[SmokingJacket]

4. No, you're right, I cringe at the sight of people buying

entire pallets of water in little squirt bottles. But I have a thing about excess packaging.

Most bottled water IS tap water, anyway.

[LittleClarkie]

13. I'll buy one and then refill it with the filtration system at work

I can't hardly stand the stuff at home.

[Greyskye]

176. Don't reuse the bottled water containers

...they start to break down and release their substance into the water. Go get one of those polycarbonate water bottles. You used to only be able to get them for mucho dinero at outdoor sporting goods stores like REI; but now are available cheaply just about anywhere.

On edit - it seems like there is dispute about the bottle material breaking down and leaching into the water. However, the small mouth of the bottle makes it diffiult to sterilize effectively, and multiple studies on reuse of these types of bottles have shown much higher rates of unhealthy bacterial cultures in bottles that have been reused more than just a few times. So if you do re-use these, please limit the number of times you do so. :7

[liberalnurse]

5. I am grateful to the bottled water option....

because it was a successful tool to switch the kids from reaching for soda pop....now they reach for water in the bottle. I don't know why they just don't go to the spicket and draw a glass of water...they don't, but they do drink the bottled water. :shrug:

[SmokingJacket]

16. I have one of those Brita tank filters. My kids use it all the time.

Our water is over-chlorinated -- it tastes like a swimming pool. Really, it makes me gag. But if you let it sit out for a bit, even without filtering it, it's fine.

Hey, if you don't buy soda, kids can't drink it! My kids don't drive yet, so they HAVE to drink what I give them.

I'm one of those mean mothers who don't even buy juice boxes.

[liberalnurse]

36. I haven't been buying soda for the past 3 weeks....

They have yet to ask for soda since I have the water. I also bought those little packets of instant Lipton Green Tea....sweetened with Splenda and also Crystal Lite. These little packets fill one bottle of water....

It's better than soda and they do drink more plain water than the flavored. I'm so glad I put this plan into action.O8)

[madmunchie]

50. Splenda and the other artificial sweetners are pretty bad for you

Stevia is the best choice for alternative sweeteners.

[liberalnurse]

57. That's what I heard, that Stevia is the best choice.

We agreed to limit the Splenda use...it is made from sucrose but altered of course. We agreed to use it to avoid that glucose rush in blood levels. We attribute that to fat gain.

[EOTE]

165. What's wrong with Splenda?

I used it while I was on Atkin's, and I loved it. Since it had basically no carbs, I could use it for baking to make things like cheesecake and other confections that were basically carb free. I lost lots of weight while on Atkin's, and Splenda made it much easier for me as I didn't miss sugared sodas so much. I'd check my ketone levels constantly and Splenda never caused me to go out of ketosis. I've heard lots of people talking about how bad sucralose is for you, but I've heard nothing in terms of specifics. What's the deal?

[madmunchie]

204. Chemicals, Splenda has heavy duty chemical processing

So it doesn't register as "sugar", there are worse things for your body, like the chemicals used to process Splenda.

Stevia is a plant, period. No chemical processing has to happen for it to be actually good for your blood sugar and used in everyday living.

[femrap]

180. LOVE STEVIA!

Here's some history on this great NATURAL product. I believe it was Monsanto that wanted to buy the process that makes Stevia and then NEVER allow the product to be made again....however, a wealthy man (from Brazil?) thought this was awful and he purchased the process.

You see, stevia is made from a berry that is 500 times sweeter than sugar! I haven't used sugar in years!!! Not that horrid, cancer-causing splenda, etc.

Stevia is becoming pretty mainstream....sells at Kroger's, I believe. Just need 4 drops in my cup of coffee in the morning!

And I love my Pur water filter! I always take my big mug of water wherever I go. Rarely do I buy water.

[Retrograde]

197. gad, that stuff is sweet!

I have a Stevia plant (I collect unusual herbs). I nibbled on a leaf once and the ultra-sweet taste lingered for nearly an hour.

[SmokingJacket]

65. Kids are pretty adaptable, I guess!

Mine wouldn't drink milk -- and their doctor was worried they weren't getting enough calcium. So I gave them chocolate milk or Ovaltine. Once they were used to chocolate milk, I could put less of the powder in, and eventually they drank regular milk.

Getting kids to eat (and drink) healthily is such a battle these days.

[NotGivingUp]

140. Milk is crap.

[Occulus]

175. yeah, that's why mammalian young drink it

:eyes:

[femrap]

181. Drinking milk from one's species is good....

but I don't think it's advisable to drink it from dogs, cows, or other animals.

[madmunchie]

205. No mammals drink other mamals milk AND definetly not into adulthood

in their natural hapitat. Dairy is the cause for many many health problems.

Interesting question?????? Who proclaimed "Dairy" as a food group and why?

[JuniperLea]

188. Hehe! Good for you!

My kids thought graham crackers were cookies until they started school. I was "mean" like that too:)

Popsicles were fruit juices frozen in those cute little Tupperware and Rubbermaid dealies... I never let them go down the cereal aisle so they didn't know what sweetened cereal was... wheat thins were "chips"... they develop a taste for certain things when they are young so you have to strike early!


Oh, about the water... big bottles re-used by the water company... and ask for their source and testing information. There are plenty of good spring water companies around.

[mhatrw]

192. You are lucky. Those of us who live in communities that have

switched from chlorine to chloramine don't have these options. Not even boiling the water gets rid of it.

[Redstone]

18. "SPICKET??" You're from Pennsylvania, aren't you?

Redstone

[OhioChick]

27. Spicket??

I haven't heard that word since I was a youngster! :)

[Kolesar]

35. spigot

[OhioChick]

40. Uh-Oh........

Spelling police! :hi:

[liberalnurse]

42. Thanks for the correct spelling....

:hi:

[Redstone]

45. See post #44 just below.

Redstone

[Redstone]

44. No, in Pennsylvania, it's pronounced "spicket." She's being phonetic,

not illiterate.

Redstone

[liberalnurse]

48. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:pals:

[Redstone]

54. As you walk down the payment to go to the Accamee to buy some

bottled wooder, then dry your face with a tal, you can thank me again.

Especially if the wooder is from the Skookul.

Redstone

[liberalnurse]

69. Was that with crick wooder?

If not, what do yins use? :rofl:

[OhioChick]

70. Not "yins"

but "younse." :rofl:

[liberalnurse]

72. I stuggle with the spelling on that one.

thats much better. O8)

[OhioChick]

74. My family is from PA, too! (obviously, lol)

:hi:

[liberalnurse]

78. Pennsylvania has given

Ohio a lot of Democrats! O8) :hi:

[WinkyDink]

166. Just plain "youse", thank you very much! And north of Philly we don't say

"wooder"; we say it the right way!

[Redstone]

86. Skookul wooder, crick wooder, it's all the same in Fluffya.

Redstone

[Kolesar]

155. The crick that runs under the trussel, right?

[havocmom]

157. Pal of mine said not to miss the wooder-ice

if I ever get back there and fulfill my dream of visiting Independence Hall.

And something about a cake made in a funnel or some such delicacy....

[foreverdem]

135. OMG Redstone!

You sound like the people from my hometown in PA! You sound like I used to before I moved!

[tinfoilinfor2005]

195. My girlfriend from Pennsylvania always says gum band for rubber

bands. I didn't know for the longest time what she talking about. :)

[FlaGranny]

142. In NJ too. n/t

[RebelOne]

148. I was born in Philadelphia, grew up in Miami,

now living in the Atlanta area and I still say "spicket."

[redwitch]

194. in nj where i grew up it is also pronounced spicket

:-)

[liberalnurse]

39. Yes,,,,,

Pittsburgh area....Mars, Pa.

I have gum-bands too!......:rofl: :hi:

[rman]

158. so, bottle the tap water yourself - same difference (often literally)

*unless* your local tapwater is known to be of substandard quality.

[guinivere]

6. I agree. But damn it, I wish I had thought of it.

I would so be on easy street right now.

[Redstone]

24. I know. Who'd have thought?

Redstone

[onehandle]

7. People don't drink bottled water to save the environment...

...they drink it because it's healthier and tastes better. Spring water that is.

Filters are made of plastic. And even filtered, tap water sucks.


Except Dasani, which is filtered tap water and sucks.

[Kolesar]

14. Bottled water *is* filtered tap water

They bottle it in Cleveland out of Lake Erie water at the Coke or Pepsi plant and slap a Dasani or Aquafina label on it.

[onehandle]

23. I meant spring water.

Dasani and Aquafina are filtered sewage. I don't drink them.

Regardless, people don't drink bottled water to save the environment.

[Kolesar]

32. I presume they drink it because they are thirsty ... eom

[Sgent]

144. They sell a large amount of "spring water" around here

It all comes from the municipal water supply in Abita, LA, or a similar plant in AK.

[Redstone]

34. That's not my point. Bad logic on your part.

Redstone

[Maiden England]

122. I am highly suspicious of any still water that goes 'pshhhhh' when opened

Dasani is like the number one offender.

I do drink some bottled water though, I ride a motorbike and I need to carry a bottle with me so I don't dehydrate in the hot summers down here in Louisiana, however, I refill and reuse and recycle as much as I can. I think thats the very least we can do, well that and a spell check obviously ;-) (refering to higher up the string which made me giggle!)

[REP]

215. Real Spring Water (Not Filtered Sludge) Is a True Delight

It's probably highly pretentious being able to taste water, but I can, and some real spring water is noticeably 'sweeter' and 'fresher' to make it worth the scorn of others to have large glass jugs of it delivered. I did that back in my home town, where the BEST spring water ever was available. Here, it's giant jugs of distilled water with electrolytes. Taste-free but safe to drink.

[Ikonoklast]

41. That is correct, sir.

I haul bottled water as freight out of just about anywhere there is a large filtering plant nearby, usually a soda bottling facility or brewery. I get a huge laugh out of all those people that are unknowingly drinking Lake Erie bottled water and think they are getting something special.

I get Lake Erie water through my tap for one ten/thousandth the price they pay for a fancy bottle and label. Same water, just filtered, but I filter my tap water, too.

[mhatrw]

193. Not all. Reverse osmosis removes chloramine.

I know of no other process that does other than distillation.

[Redstone]

Yes, filters are made from plastic. But much LESS plastic than even

a month's worth of bottles.

Redstone

[JVS]

126. Tap water rules

[Deja Q]

8. I stand with you.

And if they try to flame us, I'll whip out the marshmallows. :9

[robinlynne]

9. I keep the plastic bottles, and refill them with filtered water at home.

so i just keep on using them. throwing them away is insane.

[SmokingJacket]

20. I admit, I reuse the bottles too.

Sometimes I'm caught at work with nothing to drink, so I buy a bottle, and refill. Interestingly, I can't taste any difference between the water-fountain-water and the purchased at great expense stuff.

[IChing]

93. The water is so bad here, I don't ask for ice in my sodas

I don't drink much pop or soda but once in a while it comes with the meal.
The taste is perceptional bad to any outsider that drinks their soda.
The ice in some places of business in my area are not filtered


Recycling is the issue not buying bottle water or pop
At the World Cup some people made a small fortune picking up bottles in Germany 90 euros in 4 hours.
I think you miss the point, I grew up running around town as a small kid
picking up bottles at 5 cents and that is when the minimum wage was $2.00 a hour.
Candy bars cost 5 cents at the time and some coke machines
were still 25 cents or less for a bottle of pop.

[spooky3]

104. same here

[SmokingJacket]

168. I agree it would be great if every bottle were recycled...

But right now, very few are -- that's why I cringe. Most of those bottles are going right to the landfill. In most states -- correct me if I'm wrong -- there is NO deposit on water bottles.

Another issue is the palatability of municipal water. It OUGHT to be decent enough to drink. Because if it isn't, private companies are going to take over the water supply. Which is a scary thought.

[Redstone]

37. Nothing wrong with buying it when you need to, and re-using the

bottles. I'm talking about ALL those people I see at the grocery store, buying CASES a week.

Redstone

[spooky3]

103. I do that too. Our city water smells bad.

[Warpy]

10. The only time I drink the stuff is when I'm far away from home

and really thirsty with no water fountain in sight. You know, desperate.

At home I drink filtered tap water, which I actually like better than bottled waters I've tasted. Evian is NASTY compared to good filtered tap water.

The only place I used bottled water was Cape Cod in a town that had a serious TCE contamination problem with the town water supply. I used refillable jugs and a hand pump.

[jobycom]

19. Maybe, but Evian is heaven compared to average filtered tap water

and it's a lot better than any bottled tea, soda, or sports drink out there.

[Warpy]

29. I find it salty and vaguely medicinal

I guess that appeals to some folks.

To each his own. My tap water is great once it's passed through the filter and it saves me a fortune.

[jobycom]

11. So people drink bottled water instead of bottled sodas or teas.

Not sure where the big deal is. I guess if you're arguing that in a person's house where they would otherwise drink tapwater it's more environmentally responsible to drink tapwater, okay. But a person grabbing an Evian at a Texaco instead of a Coke just doesn't bother me.

[Redstone]

51. I was talking about what you said in your second sentence, not about

people who drink the occasional bottled water from a vending machine or with a restaurant meal.

THAT is not the problem. "a person grabbing an Evian at a Texaco instead of a Coke" doesn't bother ME, either.

Redstone

[jobycom]

71. Maybe you should do a poll to see how many people drink bottled water

in their homes. I drink filtered water at home, but I probably drink more water when I'm out than I do at home. I wonder what the normal pattern is.

[Redstone]

87. Not a bad idea. Maybe tomorrow. Unfortunately, I'd suspect that

more DUers than the national average do what you do, so it might not reflect the scope of the national problem.

I live in a wealthy town, so what I see at the grocery store may be skewed as well.

But you have to admit: Twenty years ago in the gym, you saw everyone drinking from the water fountain. Now everybody has his or her own little bottle. Right?

Redstone

[jobycom]

116. Twenty years ago I had to stick a stamp on a letter and wait a week

for a reply when I wanted to write to someone. And a gym was a place where the high school students played basketball where I lived. And everyone was told to eat equal portions of meat and vegetables every day. So what people did twenty years ago has little to do with what I think is right and wrong now.

One things for sure--they didn't vote any better 20 years ago. Reagan... Bush... two stupid, evil peas in a pod.

[Gormy Cuss]

162. What's a water fountain?

They disappeared once vendors realized they could sell cold water for a buck or two a bottle.
Back when tap water was acceptable people in gyms had reusable sports bottles and refilled them as needed.

It used to be standard that even the smallest sandwich shops would give out cups of water for free too. Now it's uncommon -- why give it a way when customers will pay a buck or two for it?

[Lucy - Claire]

211. Some people find water fountains unhygenic.....

I use them to refill me water bottle in the gym. I also re-fill at work from the water cooler.
Tap Water in London isn't that bad, but it is very hard water and does have chemicals in it these days.
I drink tap water mostly but if I want too drink lots I drink Vittel or Evian, which I much prefer.

[iamjoy]

12. "Enhanced Water"

my husband and I buy flavored waters because it tastes better than plain water (even filtered).

And, we need to have a supply of bottled water in case there's a hurricane. Yes, I could store water in reusable containers, but that wouldn't always work. My plan is, when we're put on storm warning, I stick several small bottles in the freezer. Right before the storm hits, I take them out and put them in an ice chest with some items I want to keep cool. I have "ice" and when it thaws, water.

[Redstone]

60. Well, that's just sensible. We do the same. I'm talking about people

who go through a dozen bottles a day, and I'll bet you know some of them.

Redstone

[bklyncowgirl]

219. My family's big on that vitamin water stuff

Don't care for it myself--tastes like watered down Koolaid to me but I guess its better for them than guzzling soda.

[Cleita]

17. But those plastic bottles and the wrap can be recycled.

In the heat of summer it's just a practical consideration to carry water with you in your car and your purse. If it comes in a plastic bottle I do recycle it.

[kath]

127. I carry water in the car with me - I fill up a Rubbermaid bottle from the

tap, add lots of ice from the freezer. Costs next to nothing, and does the job, and generates NO trash (we've had the bottle for years). For the kids' sporting events, we fill up a big Coleman or Igloo jug with the same mixture. (Sometimes do use Gatorade, though, and always recycle those bottles.)

[Cleita]

128. I can't do tap water. We have a well and the water isn't all

that pure. It has to be boiled before being ingested, which means it's okay for making coffee, taking a shower and cooking but not good for drinking.

[existentialist]

21. OK, I'll dispute a couple of your assertions.

1) Bottles water does not cost $12.00 a gallon unless you are going out of your way to spend more than you need to.

2) If you recycle by reusing the same gallon jug most of your arguments against recycling and the costs of transporting the water are much overstated, although I will concede not without some basis.

3) In many places, including here where I live, the tap water is at least on the borderline of unsafe. Filtering removes some of the contaminants, but the small filers for individual use do not filter as much as the larger filters at the grocery store where you can refill you own jug for 39c a gallon.

4) Perhaps you consider this to be a variety of filtering rather than drinking bottled water. OK, that's what I'm doing.

[Redstone]

63. Your last sentence was exactly right, so I'm not wrong. I am talking about

the people (and I guarantee you know a few) who go through a dozen pre-packaged 12-ounce bottles of water a day.

I am NOT talking about people who do what you do; buying it by the gallon and re-using the gallon bottles.

Not a damn thing wrong with doing that.

Redstone

[AndyTiedye]

101. Some of the Grocery Stores NEVER Change the Filter

[existentialist]

123. I believe you,

but I know what the local water tastes like without filtering, and I believe that I would quickly taste it if the filter were not changed regularly.

[IChing]

22. I buy water @ 15cents a gallon from water machines

Recycle the gallon bottles I have and fill up once a weak for cooking and drinking use, the water here tastes awful. The machines does 5 different water purification processes and tastes great.

[otohara]

25. Agree - We Use Pur Water Filter

and it works extremely well. Use our own containers,

We are tree hugers and proud of it! I always have been, I voted against the Olympics coming to Colorado in 72 - and we won!!! That would never happen now!

[Kolesar]

26. The Environmental Impact of Bottled Water

The Environmental Impact of Bottled Water

Recent articles have been telling us that Americans are drinking bottled water at rates that astound even the purveyors of the bottled water. It's interesting that every study that's ever been done shows that most water drinkers cannot tell the difference between the bottled or tap water. Studies show that bacteria levels are lower in most municipal water systems than in the bottles. The advantages of bottled water are portability and fashion.

My first reaction was "So, let them buy bottled water. It's their money and if they prefer to throw it down the drain, let ‘em." But then I read another study concerning the effect of bottling water on the environment. Shipping the water containers uses fuel and trees for the shipping cases. They are kept refrigerated, another ecological "expense." But the worst and longest lasting disadvantage to bottled water is the huge number of empties going into landfills, presumably to be "with us" forever.

If you think gasoline prices are high, think of what you pay for a gallon of bottled water. It's been calculated to cost 250 to 10,000 times the cost of tap water. Tap water is subjected to constant testing. New York City tap water was tested hundreds of thousands of times in 2004 alone. Cleveland water has always been cited for its purity.

There is no question that in many undeveloped nations in the world, drinking water safety is a very important issue, but in many areas of the U.S. we have safe tap water. So, THINK BEFORE YOU DRINK.

(Adapted from a New York Times article, August 1, 2005)

[Redstone]

88. Thank you SO much for the backup.

Redstone

[Bretttido]

130. Somewhat misleading sentence in there

Studies show that bacteria levels are lower in most municipal water systems than in the bottles.

Well, pumped with excess chlorine, municipal water systems likely have less bacteria. But how good is the chlorine for you? And what about the other non-living elements in the water system?

I must confess though, I have been one of those people who buys a case of bottled water each week. I got in the habit of it about 6 months ago when I stopped drinking soda (great decision by the way, I highly recommend cutting soda from your diets). After reading through this post, I'm going to make a commitment to get some jugs of water that can be refilled at my local grocery store. Please forgive me, for I have sinned!

[Maine-ah]

218. I would like to point something out about the empties going

into landfills. That would be the state's responsibility. Here in Maine, we recycle bottles and cans, as do many states. If you live in one that does not recycle, you should petition the state government to start doing so.

As for drinking bottled water, where I work, we go through about a case of bottled water a day. The city water smells like chlorine and we won't drink it. Where I live, I'll drink my water at home, I'm on a well, and the water is incredible.

[Demit]

30. I grew up on tap water, and see no need to pay extra to buy bottled.

That's the only issue for me. All the issues that people are bringing up in defense of buying bottled water, what did they used to do before Evian and Dasani and all the other brands? Die of thirst? I mean, really.

[Liberal In Texas]

55. Well...

I grew up without my sister. She died from drinking water from a small town water supply.

It was many years ago, I don't suppose muni water supplies are that bad these days. But this is one incident of something that happened about "what we used to do" before the invention of bottled water.

[Truthiness Inspector]

67. LOL

I was just thinking the same thing. When and how did this big switch to bottled water happen? I'd bet most of us grew up drinking tap water, but now, it's like it's non-potable.

I'm guilty, though. I drink bottled water. I'm trying to remember how I started turning my nose up at tap.

[Lucy - Claire]

213. Maybe there were less chemicals in the water then

or maybe it was boiled before use and people weren't obssessed with gym, either so portablilty wasn't an issue.

[Liberal In Texas]

216. I don't think you were answering my exact post BUT...

My sister DIED back then from bad water. It was NOT boiled before use.

WTF do you mean by "people weren't obsessed with gym"? If my infant sister hadn't been so obsessed "by gym" would she have taken that trickle of water out of the glass and died from it?

Now...portability? People years ago never thought about portability. But potability might have been nice.

People in the post-WW2 era took water with them on trips, as well as they could. There were no plastic bottles, jugs, or 7-11s. You drove to a city with a thremos full of water and hoped that you could refill the damn thing there. AC in cars was almost unheard of. Dad might fill a kind of skein and hang it over the radiator of the car to: not only keep the engine cool, but to have semi-cool water at the pull-over to have lunch. It was a lunch that mom made before leaving home kept in a basket. Sandwiches. There were no Burger Kings or Micky D's. A real treat was to find a road-side diner and have a hot burger and shake. If your dad could afford it.

My sister died from one of those road side diners, drinking out of the glass of water that they served them.

I no more trust small towns, or big cities, today than I did growing up hearing this story about my sister. I take gallons of distilled water on the plane or in my truck when I travel.

This is not funny. People died back then. I bet they still do.

[Demit]

224. We didn't boil water for use in my little village

of Philadelphia, PA. LOL! I turned on the spigot, filled a glass and drank it, like everybody else. City water undergoes stringent testing, and Phila water consistently scores high. You're right about people wanting to carry water around these days, and that's not a bad thing. But I don't know that I have any more reason to trust the water supply of companies selling water for profit, so I don't spend money on a product that I'm already paying for to come into my home.

[LynzM]

33. I'm with you, mostly.

Not that I won't *ever* buy it, but not often.

[laundry_queen]

38. What we do

Our tap water is gross. I'm a very picky person and can only handle certain BOTTLED water options, nevermind small town from-a-swamp drinking water. HOWEVER, we get the big 5 gallon jugs and refill them w/reverse osmosis water at our local co-op. We each have a 2 litre jug w/squirt top (dh and I - kids have 1 litre ones) which we wash before each fill - we reuse those. When I'm on vacation or travelling, yes I admit to buying smaller bottles of water - 1.5 litres usually.
My beef is those huge shrink wrapped pallettes of water that are CHEAPER than the larger 1.5 litres or 4 litre (gallon) jugs. What a huge waste of packaging.

[Redstone]

43. Let me clarify: I am NOT talking about people who buy an occasional

bottle of water from a vending machine, ESPECIALLY the ones (like Mrs R, who doesn't drink soft drinks) who take the empty bottle home and refill it with tap water to use again.

I'm talking about the people I see at the grocery store who have carts with CASES of the stuff, every week...you know who I mean.

Redstone

[greatauntoftriplets]

52. And that is exactly what I do....

Buy a bottle here and there, refill it for in the car or when I am out somewhere without easy access to water. Because I drink the stuff all day. And because the office objects if I drink booze at my desk. Go figure....

[Redstone]

56. You need to find a new place to work, then. What, no booze

in the office? It's oppression of the working class, I tell you!

Redstone

[greatauntoftriplets]

58. I know....

:eyes:

As they say, work is the curse of the drinking class.

Just joking, of course. I love water. My father died of end-stage renal disease and I feel that drinking lots of water is damn good for me...he never did. And it was a fight to get him to drink any after his diagnosis.

[Redstone]

66. Well, you can do both. I drink a lot of water during the day (it makes me

get out of my office chair and walk out to the kitchen, which is good for my back), and then switch to the good stuff at night.

See? Best of both worlds!

Redstone

[greatauntoftriplets]

77. That is what I do....

:toast:

[Redstone]

79. I Knew I wasn't the only one. It seems so logical.

Redstone

[Midlodemocrat]

99. Eek. I buy cases of Dasani for my husband.

Even though we have filtered water through the door in the fridge. He has a hiatal hernia and says that the other stuff upsets his stomach.

Not sure how much is psychosomatic, however. I never really thought about the impact on the environment :blush:

I buy a ton of that stuff. When the high school has a fundraiser, I usually buy 20 or more cases instead of the soda.

[TheFarseer]

118. oh, but the best part is

you see those people loading up pallets and pallets of "store brand" water to 'save money'!!!!! Hey buddy, you could really save alot of money by drinking from the tap or buying a filter if you must and better yet, quit smoking and stop driving half-way across the city to Taco Bell by yourself in you Suburban on your lunch break every day. But I suppose just because I'm a cheap bastard, I expect everyone else to be too.

[stepnw1f]

46. I Have to Agree

People could use one container for most drinks. Cheaper that way too. But you know how convenience has its way with people, unfortunately.

Every little bit makes a difference.

[Liberal In Texas]

47. We have a steam distiller and refill plastic bottles with distilled H20.

Once you get used to good water, tap water tastes terrible. Even bottled "spring" water isn't as good as distilled.

[muriel_volestrangler]

134. Wow - what's your energy source?

Please tell me it's solar or some other renewable source. I hate to think of someone burning fossil fuel to distill drinking water.

[Liberal In Texas]

139. It plugs into the wall outlet.

Electricity we buy is from Green Mountain and we pay extra for 100% wind generation. Also, we just installed a solar attic fan. I've replaced many incandescents in the house to flourscent. Our next projects coming up are a thermal barrier in the attic, a tankless H20 heater, followed down the road a bit by total window/frame replacements to energy effecient ones when we get the $. Our goal is to be as green as possible.

The most reasonably priced water distillers are available at Sears.

[muriel_volestrangler]

141. Good - that sounds environmentally friendly

If you don't mind me asking, do you know how much it costs you per pint (or whatever)? Less than beer or whatever, I'd guess, but what's the cost compared to store-bought bottled water?

[Liberal In Texas]

143. Well, I think that's kind of hard to tell. The ads

for the devices say 25 cents per gal. But who knows?



How it works:

1. Ordinary tap water is heated to 212 Degrees F, killing bacteria, cysts and viruses that may be present.
2. Steam rises leaving behind dissolved solids, salts, heavy metals and other substances.
3. Low boiling light gases are discharged through the gaseous vent.
4. Steam is condensed in a stainless steel coil.
5. Distilled water then percolates through a coconut shell carbon filter, enhancing the quality by adsorption of VOCs.
6. The purified drinking water is collected in the one gallon polycarbonate storage bottle (included).

From:
http://www.discountjuicers.com/waterwise4000.html
(This is a knock off of the Sears model, and ironically more expensive.)

[muriel_volestrangler]

164. That cost sounds in the right ballpark

It says it consumes 800W, and takes 4 hours to produce a gallon of water. So that's 3.2 kWh per gallon. That would be 25 cents at 7.8 cents per kWh.

Since it gives off 800W as heat, do you have to stand it by a window in summer to avoid heating the kitchen up?

[Liberal In Texas]

206. Good question.

(Sorry I'm late in the reply dept. I just got done with a job today that was about 12 hours long.)

It does put off heat. And some noise with the little fan blowing in the top. We mostly run it overnight. I've considered putting it in the garage, but in our house configuration, it's a little too inconvenient. We have ours in the kitchen entry near the pantry. Kind of out of the way, and the heat stays in that area.

It also needs to be cleaned once in awhile as there is a lot of junk in the tap water. Sears sells a powder that you put a small scoop of into the cannister, heat it up, and it gets rid of the encrustated junk in about 15 minutes. There is a lot of calcium build up on the sides of the stainless steel, as you might imagine.

4 to 5 hours is a good rule of thumb in distilling a gallon. Some weekend days we do 3 or so a day to build up a little reserve.

I had this thing in my condo before my wife and I got married. She was quite skeptical about it. (I think she thought I was a little nutty.) (Why is that water so much different than tap water...?) Now, she is right out there browbeating me if I don't do my share of "making enough water."

[Liberal In Texas]

209. One other thing. Scotch.

Yes Scotch. Or any really good expensive libation that you might be tempted to mix with ice or a dash of water.

I don't drink a lot of hard booze anymore, but on those rare occations that I may want to, it will be a single malt that I've paid 2 hours wage for. I don't like it "neat", I will drink it with a splash or 2 cubes.

Now, I just paid an arm and a leg for this wonderful taste.

Am I gong to pollute it with tap water? No way.

Distilled water is odorless, colorless, and tasteless. It neither adds or detracts from drinking a fine old single malt Scotch. (Or, from your morning coffee or tea, for that matter.)

[Hestia]

49. I buy bottled water but

real bottled water. I have 5 gallon glass bottles delivered to the house. Believe it or not, it is cheaper to have it delivered vs going to the grocery store, turning in the bottles and getting more.
It is environmentally friendly as to reusing the glass bottles (I refuse to use plastic) but very unfriendly as far as transporation costs (it comes from my home state).

If I went back home more often, we could get it for free, but we don't so can't.

Does it help that we've changed all our light bulbs to flourescent and basically only use the electric scooter for transporation, groceries, post office? We've at least cut back on those offenses, can we at least have our real bottled water?

[Redstone]

89. But I'm not TALKING about people who do what you do.

I'm talking about people who consume CASES of individual 12-ounce bottles of commercial water a week.

OK?

Redstone

[MisoWeaver]

53. Water from the tap is VILE!

if you knew...

How many pesticides are in it
How much prescription drugs are in it
How much fertilizer is in it
How much MTBE is in it


Who knows what else is in it??
I give my cats bottled water.

Do an experiment:

Open a bottle of Orzarka ( or something ) and let it sit out.
Fill an empty bottle with tap water and let it sit out.

watch which one grows stuf in it then you tell me about tap water.

[rman]

159. most bottled water is essentially tap water, just a lot more expensive

The fact that stuff grows in tap water when you let it stand for a couple of days doesn't mean it is poluted.

[conflictgirl]

59. I have a faucet filter at home and fill my own bottles of water

I live within 10 miles of Dow Chemical world HQ and the town is nicknamed "Chemical City"...that might explain why I don't drink our tap water. If we could afford it, I would get a shower/bathtub filter too! There's so much chlorine in our tap water that taking a bath often makes one's skin smell like you just swam in a pool.

I do agree that buying individual bottles of water is environmentally irresponsible - in the same way that it's environmentally irresponsible to buy plastic bottles of soda, and there are plenty of people doing that! I figure if we're going to crack down on one, we should crack down on all purchases of single-serve beverages in plastic bottles.

I rarely buy bottled water unless I'm far from home and didn't take enough with me (and I don't drink soda) - if I do have to buy it, though, my preference is to pay extra for Fiji water. It tastes the cleanest to me, and at least it's not water from a municipal source run through a filter like Aquafina.

[Triana]

105. That's what I do...use a faucet filter and ....

..fill and reuse plastic bottles when I take water with me. I don't buy bottled water.

[The Straight Story]

64. So, in a sense, drinking bottled water is worse for us than smoking...

Given all the pollution generated by the trucks, the plants, recycling, etc - pollution we breath in each day ;) Not to mention the electric needed to keep em cool in the fridge case at the local gas station.

Then there is the gas that people use to drive to work to bottle the water. And if we added up the weight of all the empty bottles and factored in how much that costs extra in trash trucks...well, it goes on and on and on.

Of course cigs have similar issues, but then they are taxed to the hilt to help pay medical costs and education. So maybe we need to tax bottled water as well.

[Liberal Veteran]

68. Those bottles on the side of the road are recycled....

....as portable urinals apparently (aka "Trucker Bombs").

[Redstone]

90. Oh, THAT's funny. Thanks for throwing some humor into this thread.

(Remind me to never pick up a roadside bottle and refill it...)

Redstone

[Tsiyu]

73. You get a rec out of me

and another kick.

This is another step in starving The Beast, if people would realize it.

We complain about our congresspeople not sacrificing enough, but how much will some folks sacrifice in THEIR own lives to make things better?

Many of these bottled water companies are depleting local water tables, and the packaging is simply the most wasteful thing imaginable. Imagine what our ancestors would think about the way we live our lives?

I'm not trying to flame anyone, I only wish to make folks think. I, too, have bought bottled water and so have my kids. I try to explain why it's a bad idea now, though, and I am encouraging other options...but.

It's a convenience.

And people will fight tooth and nail for convenience. Even if that convenience is killing them. :shrug:

[Ptah]

75. Tucson (Pima County) voted for Kerry, Phoenix voted Bush.

Phoenix, Tucson on different paths to conserve

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special26/articles/0120drought-twocities.html

Larry Copenhaver
Tucson Citizen
Jan. 20, 2003 12:00 AM

Both cities are surrounded by desert. Both get less than 12 inches
of rain a year. And both are gaining thousands of new residents each month.

Yet when it comes to conserving perhaps the single-most crucial
element for their survival and growth, Phoenix and Tucson
couldn't be more different.

Call it a tale of two mind-sets.


After decades of efforts to get residents to use less water,
including rate hikes and conservation programs, per capita
water consumption in Tucson last year was 160 gallons a day,
down 20 percent since the mid-1970s.

In Phoenix, per capita consumption last year was 226 gallons a day,
38 percent higher than in Tucson.

[Redstone]

92. Phoenix and Tucson on different paths? No surprise to anyone who has

been to both cities. Phoenix, after all, yearns to be Scottsdale, only 100 times as large.

Fly over both and examine the ratios of swimming pools to houses, and that will tell you all you need to know. People in Tucson admit that they live in a desert. People in Phoenix deny it.

Redstone

[Ptah]

111. You nailed it, Redstone.

"People in Tucson admit that they live in a desert. People in Phoenix deny it."

To paraphrase, Tucson, democratic, Phoenix, Republican.

:hi:

[Redstone]

113. Precisely. The correlation bears out all that you and I said. Q.E.D.

Redstone

[Retrograde]

201. Phoenix tries to air-condition the outdoors

The first time I visited Phoenix in the summer, I was appalled by the outdoor air conditioning: lots of buildings and public places spray mists of water over gathering areas to cool them. So much easier than building for the climate (overhangs, thick adobe walls, etc), at least until the water runs out.


BTW, I recommend The Worst Hard Time, a history of the Dust Bowl of the 1930s, for a sobering look at how to totally destroy an environment in less than a generation.

[Redstone]

233. I just read that book! Truly outstanding. Everyone should read it.

And that "outdoor air conditioning" in Phoenix is truly apalling; given how much woater it evaporates.

Disgusting.

Redstone

[Swamp Rat]

76. Drinking tap water in New Orleans will KILL you.

You make excellent points, but since I want to live, I will continue drinking bottled water.

... and yes, the tap water here is DEADLY.

[pitohui]

117. it isn't really, you know, they just want you to think so

my ex-neighbors died in their 90s of water, but not from drinking it, from drowning in it

did you know in blind taste tests that new orleans water always comes out one of the top rated?

and jeezus it should, based on my travels anyway, there is some nasty sulphur or chlorine water out there in this country

many people drink soft drinks thinking it is safer, yet my husband goes into some of the bottling plants for his work and guess what, they are just using the same water out of the river, and you never heard of anyone who died of drinking cokes

it's a myth to make us buy

i used to do it too but then i realized i was being taken advantage of

[Swamp Rat]

129. You are right.

The water I have tasted elsewhere in the USA not only tastes bad, it also stinks to high heaven.

I was spoiled because my dad bought Kentwood water for decades, and now I buy Abita spring water because I like the taste. I don't buy or drink Coke or any col' drinks, except for the occasional 'boutique' soda from Whole Foods. When I lived in Brasil I drank guaraná (from a root, similar to ginger ale) and cajú (derived from the juice of the fruit of cashew) everyday.

As for NOLA tap water, I won't drink it unless I am desperate. Though it doesn't taste as bad as other places, I do not trust it since hurricane Katrina. This has more to do with the old water pipes in my neighborhood than the city water supply.


"Water

Written by: Julie Wokaty; Catherine Lewis, Lisa Hanssen, Chris DeGarmo

Water presents itself as a big concern in New Orleans since the water supply comes from the Mississippi River which is notorious for being polluted. Because of this we did a survey of 100 students (60 women and 40 men) about water issues. When asked to rank how safe they feel New Orleans drinking water was on a scale of 1 (=vary dangerous) to 5(=very safe), the average response was 2.7 with on 6% responding that they felt it was very safe. Only 26% of people drink New Orleans tap water. The other 74% answered they drink bottled water. When asked to rank themselves on a scale (1=not at all, 5=extremely) of how environmentally conscious they are with water usage, the average ranking was 2.68. The next question was the length and frequency of their showers. The average responses were 15.7 minutes and 7.55 times a week. This breaks down into 12.03 minutes for men and 18.35 minutes for women. The last question asked people to list behaviors they consciously exhibit to conserve water. Forty-four percent stated that they did not have any regular habits, and only four percent were able to list more than one habit. The most common responses were to turn of the water while brushing teeth, washing hair, and doing the dishes.

While we were unable to get specific in-depth information form Tulane's Physical Plant about water usage we were able to get some facts. For the fiscal year 95-96 the university used 220,382,000 gallons of water. That amount was 222,874,600 in 93-94 and 199,079,800 in 93-94. Theses figures include total water usage in all buildings and departments on campus inside and outside. The sharp increase in use from 93-94 to 94-95 is due to the fact that Physical Plant used to have a well that it used for its own water consumption. It dried up, and now Physical Plant's water usage is on the total bill. Since separate meters do not exist for separate building we were unable to get a comparison of building's use or to calculate an average use per student for the dormitories. The people interviewed were unsure if low-flow devices existed on campus or were in the planning stages, although they did say they hoped they exist.

The only testing of the water that is done on campus is to test for erosion in the boilers used by Physical Plant. All other testing is done by the New Orleans Sewage and Water Board which complies with EPA standards. The water for New Orleans and Tulane comes from river intake at the Orleans/Jefferson Parish line and is treated at a site in New Orleans. The process involves four primary treatment units and purifies for diseases in compliance with EPA standards.

Overall we would give the students of Tulane a C+ for water consciousness. However, due to the lack of specific data about different building's water usage and the uncertainty if low-flow devices exist or not, we give Tulane a D. The city's Sewage and Water Board is in full compliance with regulations for treating water and even boasts awards for clean and good tasting drinking water."

http://www.tulane.edu/~greenclb/audit/WATER.html

[nam78_two]

81. Agree completely

The amount of sheer \waste we have become used to in affluent countries now is insane :-/.....


Been an environmentalist for >10 years now, but am starting to lose hope these days :-(

I do hope we have the sense to save ourselves from the brink...I really do.

p.s.: Always been a fan of your posts Redstone (been lurking on DU for about 3 years now :))
OT Have you read Jared Diamond's "Collapse"?

[Redstone]

94. I've read ALL of Jared Diamond's books.

Some better than others, as with any author, but he's an author I'll ALWAY read when he has a new book out. He's that good.

And thanks for the good words.

Redstone

[opiate69]

82. one slight problem with item #2....

loads of bottled water don't use up any more or less fuel than any other type of load... most trucks haul a maximum of 48,000 pounds, whether it be water, dirt or feathers. (Although some trucks can haul a little more or a little less depending on how much the tractor weighs, how the weight is distributed, etc.)
Agree with the general idea though.

[Pobeka]

83. It IS a conspiracy. Make tap water so bad we have to buy bottles.

Used to be that tap water was clean, and tasted ok if not good.

Poor tap water forces us to buy bottled water, at ridiculously high prices compared to what a well run municipal water agency could deliver if the proper environmental regulations were in place and enforced.

It is completely insane. And it is another step toward privatizing the water supply.

[City Lights]

84. We have an RO system so our water tastes great.

We keep our fridge stocked with bottles from our tap, however, there are times when we have to buy water.

[Placebo]

85. Sorry, I'm not going to stop drinking bottled water.

:)

[LibDemAlways]

91. Tap water that flows into my So. CA home comes

400 miles down the CA aqueduct to a processing facility where it's treated with chlorine and ammonia and then sent through many more miles of pipe before it reaches my home. My daughter conducted a water testing experiment in her science class this year and the amount of chlorine, ammonia, and copper in the tap water exceeded EPA recommendations.

She tested five bottled waters as well and all had significantly fewer contaminants. No way am I drinking the polluted crap that comes out of my tap.

[Redstone]

96. If you're in southern California, I bet it's salty too if it comes from

the Colorado River.

The problem in southern California is that there's not enough water there for the number of people who live there.

Maybe God did not want that many people to live in southern California (which is, after all, a desert)?

Redstone

[LibDemAlways]

100. The tap water my community gets comes from

the Sierra mountains up north, but travels through a vast aqueduct - much of it in the high desert - before it reaches So. Cal. Other parts of S. Cal. get their water from the Colorado River.

It says a lot that the city of Los Angeles Department of Water and Power spent over $30,000 on bottled water for its employees last year!

[Redstone]

109. All that time in uncovered aqueducts (I know about the water system

in California), and it's a LONG time, in hot weather, does equal increaised salinity as well.

Your comment about the LA water department does not surprise me at all.

If you haven't, you MUST read "Cadillac Desert" by Marc Reisner.

Redstone

[CanSocDem]

167. SoCal is a good example....

....of your original point.

I once hauled 24 pallets in a tractor-trailer unit, of bottled spring water, from British Columbia, Canada to Los Angeles Ca.......

Such is the vanity and pretension of southern California, the labels had nothing on them but the promoters' name. Because of bad directions and the general inefficiency of the transportation system, the amount of non-renewable resources wasted on serving those base values make me sick when I remember them.

.
.
.

[eppur_se_muova]

172. Ah, someone mentioned Reisner's book, so I don't have to.

GREAT read. Really shakes up your thinking. Also worth reading "A Dangerous Place", his last (posthumous, in fact) work.

[IChing]

112. LOL now you are invoking God into your argument?

Recycle, conserve and make a hefty deposit on any recyclable container is the answer.
Plus make environmental public water safety a national issue and keep water in public hands not private.

I grew up when a bottle of pop cost 25 to 35 cents and the deposit was a nickel or 2-3 cents, minimum wage was $2.00 a hour.
I got all my spending money on recycling as a kid, candy bars were a nickel.

Didn't you read the story on the World Cup in germany people making 40 euros in 3 hours picking up from foreign fans?

[Warren DeMontague]

182. So- rather than drinking bottled water...

this person should move?

[eppur_se_muova]

173. Chlorine AND ammonia ?? Why? Got some more info on that ?

Mixing chlorine and ammonia is a BIG no-no. They react to make chloramine, dichloramine, nitrogen trichloride, and hydrazine. All are toxic, and NCl3 is explosive (not going to happen in your water supply, but don't mix household cleansers together!).

[LibDemAlways]

183. Click on the web page below which describes

water filtration procedures at the Jensen Filtration Plant in the San Fernando Valley. Quoting from their website: "Then chlorine and ammonia are used as disinfectants."



http://www.mwdh2o.com/mwdh2o/pages/yourwater/plants/jensen01.html

[eppur_se_muova]

185. Thanks. Not enough detail, unfortunately. The ammonia surprises me. nt

[LibDemAlways]

208. Did you see this thread?

This, I think, explains in more detail what happens to my tap water at the filtration plant.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1589454

[eppur_se_muova]

229. Thanks, I saw it afterwards. Posted my thoughts there. nt

[alarimer]

95. I think you are right

The next war is going to be about WATER, not oil. Not only is bottled water a foolish waste of resources when most municipalities have decent water already, in many areas the water is being bought out by giant mega-corporations (like Coca Cola) and bottled to be sold elsewhere. Google T. Boone Pickens for example. In Texas, where groundwater rights are based on who has the biggest straw, an entity can put down a well and sell the water to the highest bidder, even though it may damage the wells of cities and farmers in the area. There is no legal recourse for the most part. A lot of bottled water actually comes from municipal water sources, with a little extra filters.

If you live in an area where the tap water is lousy, get a filtration system for the home. It is way more cost effective and less environmentally damaging than bottled water (I am not talking about the bottled water that is delivered to the the door in huge bottles- I think those might be reused but I am not sure).

Some info on T. Boone Pickens from Public Citizen
http://www.citizen.org/cmep/Water/us/bulksales/texas/

[uppityperson]

97. Reduce, reuse, recycle. In that order.

[kestrel91316]

98. THANK YOU, Redstone! I agree 100%. Buying bottled water in most

cases is completely unconscionable. And only serves to enrich water-selling corporations.

I have a Britta pitcher and filter tap water for drinking and cooking. It tastes great (our tap water is heavily chlorinated and undrinkable due to taste, not impurities). I refuse to buy bottled water - I think it tastes like plastic, and is worse than unfiltered tap water.

[Rainscents]

102. Hi Redstone!

:hi: I have 5 - Five gallon plastic water jug, I have it filled every three weeks at natural spring water run off where I live. Environmentalist check the water every week for Bactria and other stuff. Water comes from cascade mountain snow run off, by the time, it reach my area, water comes from 300 feet deep underground and come up to surface like water fountain. Our city, 5 years go, built very nice parking area for people to park while they get the water. I been drinking this great water for 24 years now. It it soooo cold when I first get it. I do know what you mean about all those bottle water.

[stevedeshazer]

106. *slaps forehead*

If the US Corporate America, Inc. could charge you for the air you breathe and charge you $27.85 a bottle for it, they would.

Okay, they already do!



http://ecom1.sno-ski.com/oxygen.html

We'll soon be seeing OXYGEN bottles tossed by the roadside.

[struggle4progress]

107. I did some work on protecting public water supplies a few years ago.

The number one question from the public was always, "Should I be drinking bottled water?" I always said, "You should be working to protect public drinking water supplies." Unfortunately, this rejoinder too often produced only glassy-eyed stares from the audience ...

[muriel_volestrangler]

137. Yes, I'm amazed at the number here who say their tap water is bad

If you have proper standards, tap water can be better for you than bottled. Take, for example, Dasani, which was laughed out of Britain (a) after it was revealed it came from London tap water (b) it became apparent that their processing introduced illegal (in tap or bottled water) amounts of a chemical (bromate) - because after purifying the water so much, they have to re-introduce some minerals to get it to taste nice, and that process formed the bromate.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0320-08.htm

[TheFarseer]

108. you couldn't be more right

water is free!!!!! or at the very least, extremely inexpensive. I have never purchased bottled water and the only possible reason I can think to buy it is to re-fill the bottle over and over again especially on vacation or something where it might be harder to find something to drink. Of course in that case, you could also bring a thermos.

[LincolnMcGrath]

110. You are correct!

[Beausoir]

114. You don't have a well do you? "Buy a filter"? Exactly what type do you

recommend for my family??

I've spent the past 6 months trying to treat the well water that comes into my house to a point where it is tolerable. I mean...to the point where it doesn't stink like fish or garlic, turn my clothes yellow, my nails black and ruin my skin.

We put in a new well to see if it would help. Nope.

A kinetico system is $6000. We have tried Culligan and it didn't work. Tried another of those reverse osmosis systems and it made the water worse. (That dealer skipped town after 12 months.)

So pardon me if I buy some bottled water to cook with and to drink.

Jesus. I am getting SO TIRED of the constant nagging and guilt tripping that goes on here.

So I buy bottled water?!?! Shoot me.

[conflictgirl]

119. Being in that position stinks, doesn't it?

I have lived in a lot of places where I wouldn't drink the water - and live in an area now where there are thousands of homes with well water, and I'm well aware of the issues they face.

Funny how this thread is only targeting people buying bottled water, and not any drink that comes in a plastic bottle, don't you think? I understand the argument that if corporations get us all used to paying for water, it would be easier for us to accept privatized water someday. But to have it come down to the environmental irresponsibility of buying bottled water, then buying ANY drink that's packaged in plastic bottles is environmentally irresponsible.

[Kolesar]

153. I would guess you buy 5 gal bottles, not cases of 11 oz bottles

And you probably have a scheme to return the empties for reuse.

[pitohui]

115. yay me!

i haven't drunk bottled water for 17 years

i'm soooo glad i wised up

in taste tests our water is some of the best in the world actually so it was silly on the face of it

[Lorien]

120. Amen Redstone!

I use a pur water filter and a Sigg bottle. Much cheaper for me, much less harmful to the environment. :-)

[AndyTiedye]

121. Is There Any Way to Filter Out Chloramine?

The sourdough doesn't like chloramine.

[Rainscents]

124. Yes, buy good water filtration system.

There's lot of good counter top hook up to facet one you can buy.

[AndyTiedye]

203. Seems to be More Difficult to Remove

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x15

[ProfessorGAC]

149. Activated Carbon Filters

Those will remove any organic and are especially good at removing chlorinated organics.
The Professor

[AndyTiedye]

202. Maybe Not

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x15

[Mythsaje]

131. My dad's always filled up an old Sunny D bottle with tap water

and thrown it in the freezer to take to work.

At work we have the big cooler of water and a lot of us use our own bottles to carry around with us.

The tap water here is drinkable, but it still tastes too chlorinated for my taste. Me and chlorine don't get along well.

[Kolesar]

132. *YOUR* state needs a "bottle bill" as a global warming solution

A lot of energy goes into making any beverage container, and a lot of petroleum goes into making plastic containers. We live in a society where there is a lot of wealth and the cost of packaging is cheap compared to the value of what we are buying. Without a "deposit" on each container, there is no incentive to return it. Some states do have a deposit on each can.

As Ross Gelspan wrote, recycling is an important global warming solution. It is a means to recover the energy that went into making the plastic bottle, aluminum, or steel can. IIRC, it takes 200 kilowatt.hours to make an aluminum can from raw materials, and a scant amount when heated, melted, and reused. In the course of making that can, a lot of greenhouse gasses were released. There is no reason to have to expend that energy twice.

[REP]

133. MBTE

It's the water supply here. It can't be filtered out.

I am immunocompromised. The levels of bacteria that are allowed in tap water are not safe for me, so I drink vapor distilled (sterile) water. Additionally, the local water is high in calcium, and it's best I avoid excess calcium.

No, it doesn't refute any of the above, but I never argued any of the above. My nephrologist told me it was unsafe for me to drink tapwater, so I don't drink it. I can afford it, and as for my environmental impact - well, I chose not to reproduce. Think of all the resources I'm not using - just in diapers! - by not having children, who won't have children, etc. More than makes up for drinking water that won't make me sicker.

[REP]

214. I Don't Buy The Tiny Bottles, Either

That is kinda dumb. I buy the biggest bottles I can carry - I drink a LOT of water. No cases of 12oz bottles here. Water keeps. It doesn't need to come in individual servings.

[BlackVelvet04]

136. I have well water that's better than any

bottled water you've ever tasted. I use a plastic cup from the nearby mini-mart that I get when I buy iced tea and reuse it (it fits my cupholder perfectly.) I don't buy bottled water.

[shadowknows69]

145. My wife and I take all our empty milk containers

and fill them up at a local spring water tap. 25 cents gets you about 7 gallons.

[seabeyond]

146. our water taste like shit and people who grow up here have brown

teeth. something is wrong with the water. cant get any info what, and i dont trust our govt......

it is more irresponsible for me to allow my kids to drink our water

i use the same containers over and over until they no longer hold water. best i can do. sorry you feel i am an irresponsible person, but our choice living here, would be to NOT drink water. that is not a very healthy alternative.

judge away,....

[Liberal In Texas]

147. Every gallon of tap water I distill leaves a dark brown liquid residue.

About a half ounce of brown yuck you wouldn't want to drink. This is every gallon.

[seabeyond]

160. hey i am in texas too. i have lived in many places and NOT afraid

of tap water. but no way do i let my kids have it here. when they smile i dont want people to reject them, in the future, while applying for a job because of the water they drank when they were young. not to mention the shit that is in it that effects our health, that i have no clue

our water is so bad, it makes us more htirsty than quenching thirst. what is that. leaves our mouth dry

[Liberal In Texas]

207. There is an up post about a sister I never had. As an infant, she drank

water in a public water supply ... and died. I was born a year later.

This was in Michigan, not Texas, and a long time ago. But the fact remains. I do not fully trust public water supplies and have distilled my drinking water for about 15 years. Before that I bought it in the store. Before you could buy it in the store, I got it from a friend that worked in a hospital.

[slide to the left]

150. If you live in Waco and are pg, you can't drink the water

Really, it causes birth defects. The water there is that bad.

[porphyrian]

151. It was the most ingenius marketing ploy since the pet rock.

It continues to be a multi-million dollar industry.

[havocmom]

156. I used to LOVE the tap water in Tucson.

They even tested it for viruses and stuff most cities never checked for. It was really good. Now, with CAP water in channels traversing the desert for hundreds of miles... lots and lots of chlorine added.

But if one leaves some in a pitcher for a bit, it helps a lot.

[Bridget Burke]

161. Houston's tap water is surprisingly good.

I'm sure a filter would be a good idea, but I haven't gotten around to it. I was raised on well water; even the "water softener" added didn't help the flavor.

But I'll admit to picking up the occasional Pellegrino. I figure it's better than Coke & I like the fizz & the mineral taste.

[shance]

163. Thank you for this post Redstone. This is something that concerns me too

The plastics industry is rapidly polluting our planet at such an enormous rate that I wonder if we can reverse its damage, and the privatization of water is probably the biggest crime against humanity and all creatures living.

I hope citizens worldwide will awaken and realize that our air, water and land should not be held hostage and owned by a top .0000001% of individuals who wish to hoard everything at the expense of everyone else.

That is not right and in the end everyone stands to suffer.

[derby378]

169. Why would I flame you for making perfectly good sense?

Haven't waded through the responses yet, but have you see the episode of Penn & Teller: Bullshit! that deals with the whole bottled water craze? It's hilarious and eye-opening at the same time.

Paying a buck for a 20 oz. bottle of water is beyond ridiculous. Every human being has a right to clean drinking water.

[derby378]

170. Penn & Teller video clip on bottled water

Here's the link. Warning: Some links to questionable sites on this page.

http://www.vsocial.com/video/index.php?d=27915

[Jack_Dawson]

171. Judge Not

Let ye be judged. I happen to think the taste of tap water sucks. And frankly I don't trust our republican lawmakers to spend much time worrying about the purity of it. So I'll go on buying my water, thank you very much.

:beer:

[LaraMN]

174. I can drive ten minutes to an artesian spring for water.

If I do it en route to running other errands, I'm not even wasting much gas. I can buy a pack of bottled water every once in a while and refill the bottles with my spring water, for free. It's a great system!

[LSK]

177. ok, so what if Im at a sporting event or concert or something

And I WANT to drink water instead of pop or beer??? Should I just go thirsty???

[Redstone]

179. ONCE MORE, that's NOT what I was talking about!

See my numersous clarifications throughout the thread.

Redstone

[garybeck]

178. you forgot the most important reason

recent medical studies have shown that plastic food containers release carcinogens into the food. so, drinking out of those buggers actually causes cancer.

and by the way, the plastic makes it taste awful. I know I have a pretty bad sense of taste and even I can taste it.

[progressivebydesign]

184. Not wise to re-use those water bottles! Trust me.. I've been there!

I got extemely ill a few years ago reusing my water bottle over and over. And, the type of plastic they use is not supposed to get hot.. Did you ever have a bottle of water that tasted plasticy? That means the chemicals are leaching into the water. There was an article on that somewhere on not re-using those plastic bottles, because you are not supposed to wash them in hot water, which is needed to remove the bacteria. Better to either get a jug that you do not drink from directly, or buy individual waters only when needed.

Oh.. here's an article:

http://www.death-valley.us/article1002.html

They talk about buying a good quality sports bottle and re-using that, instead of the little plastic ones from the store. That way they can be washed correctly without compromising the plastic. I learned the hard way, and was sick for a long time. I had continually used the same bottles over and over, not thinking that it was a bad idea. I started to get really ill, and continued with that practice, until one day I noticed the water bottle was.. umm.. smelling pretty awful.

[mhatrw]

189. And how the fuck do you filter out the chloramine?

Please explain this one to all of us.

[mcar]

196. $8-12 a gallon?

What kind of water are you buying? Is it laced with gold?

I drink distilled water. I get it for 0.64 a gallon, yes in plastic bottles, which I do recycle. My tap water is undrinkable; it is extremely metallic.

I have yet to find another workable option.

$8-12 a gallon? You've got to be kidding me.

[johnaries]

198. I have spring water at home.

Occasionally, I've had to buy bottled water when I was out and didn't have much choice. so, I brought the bottles home, refilled them with my own spring water, and stcuk them in the fridge for my next trip out. I have 4 bottles chilling in the fridge right now.

[hopein08]

199. Well, I pay SIXTY-NINE CENTS for a gallon!

And I buy the 16.9 fl oz bottles in 12 or 24 packs for about $3. Don't know of anywhere around me that water costs $8-12 bucks. I certainly wouldn't pay that much!

And frankly, I'm not willing to subject my body to the crap they put in tap water. And a filter wouldn't really work at my house for two reasons...one, because I tried it and ended up calling a plumber because it got so screwed up and he said I'd need a new sink system and two, because I can't even get cold water during the summer and can't get hot in the winter.

[ClassWarrior]

200. Point taken. I hate the expensive little bottles...

...but I do like the 2.5 gallon jugs of spring water that go in the fridge - for an occasional treat.

Okay, you've given me food for thought.

~buuurp~

NGU.

[StellaBlue]

210. Unless you can't drink your tap water, I totally agree.

And I think people who insist they can't stand this or that brand, and have to have a certain one, because they "taste different" is

a) batshit crazy

b) decadent and spoiled

c) annoying

d) hilarious

I couldn't believe it when I first came back from Britain, last summer, and my best friend went in a convenience store while I was pumping the gas, and I asked for a water, and she asked me, "What brand do you want?" - "Whatever's cheapest!" I said. "You don't have a preference?" Me, "No, why would I have a preference?" Her, "Well, they all taste different, I only like Volvic." This was a new phenomenon to me. Only in America.

:eyes:

[fishwax]

212. I used to drink bottled water

because I didn't trust either of the local tap waters. And I think I was justified in that. I could have filtered the tap water at home, but it didn't help much. I couldn't take a filter to work with me. (The tap water at my work was of a different system.)

My solution? I drank bottled (litre) water at work and bottled (gallon) water at home. The gallon bottles I used at home were reusable, so I didn't waste a lot of extra petroleum products.

Fortunately, I now live where I have no problem with the tap water. I love tap water.

[EFerrari]

217. I really don't understand all the people I see here in San Francisco

toting bottled water everywhere. It's just weird. We have great water.

[sbj405]

220. Can I offer a few suggestions to minimize waste?

Buy the 5 gallon jugs of water. These are refilled and create less waste. If this is not an option, look for the 2 1/2 gallon or gallon jugs at the store. My parents drink from the small bottles around the house. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Invest in a reusable water bottle or two. Some people like Nalgene, some people suggest aluminum. Perhaps, an insulated one will work best for you. Whatever. Before you leave the house fill it up.

Many people have mentioned a filter. I realize this is not an option for all.

This will limit the number of smaller bottles and subsequent waste. I must say I'm astonished by how much water Costco sells. Seems like on a given Saturday, I'm the only one not buying a case or two. I also kayak on local river and I can tell you that the majority of waste is water bottles and chip bags :-(

[JCMach1]

221. This will continue to be a growing industry as long as water quality is in

decline around the world... bank on it

It is actually a necessity in this part of the world. Our tap water is desalinated (tastes like YUCK and just makes you more thirsty). We can either buy the small bottles, or the large water cooler sized filtered bottles (note these are recycled and picked-up with delivery. It costs 5AED, or about $1.15 for a 5 gallon jug.

We have not choice... Heck, the landscape even uses greywater...

What we have here will be the future in most arid places in the VERY near future.

[Omaha Steve]

222. Meeting you 1/2 way I don't get any water at Wal-mart

I'm so afraid of their water on these issues you raised, I won't go there ever again for anything. Ok. I think you have several good points. But with the EPA pushing water on humans that will kill reptiles and amphibians, bottled water is going to stay around.

[Lorax]

225. BPAs?

I've been carrying around those hard plastic water bottles for several years now. Recently I read about chemicals leeching out of those bottles as well. Now I just don't know what I'm supposed to carry around.

[lies and propaganda]

228. well, we dont DRINK gas

tap water tastes like shit.

and i reverse osmosis by the way.

[wildhorses]

230. have my own well...best tasting water and NO bill

:woohoo:

[malaise]

231. What if you buy the nine gallon refillable bottle

and use your own reusable water bottle. We use both piped water and spring water from the hills and we don't destroy the environment. We buy 45 gallons (five 9 gallon bottles)of water for the hurricane season and drink it when the season is over. Then we have them refilled for the new hurricane season. Not everyone uses bottled water as a fad.

[cushla_machree]

232. we use jugs

I refuse to drink the tap water, its full of lead and chlorine and tastes like crap. Its so bad, brita can't filter out that bad taste, plus i don't like fluoride.

So we get the 5 gallon jugs from a spring two towns over. Does it use gas? a little. But the jugs are reuseable and returned, and i fill up with my nalgene every day.

But I agree in part, if you know you drink a lot of water, it is entirely wasteful to buy those 24 packs of bottled water. If you must buy water, buy a large jug and get a refillable bottle. Otherwise, put a filter on your faucet. Seriously, its better for the environment and saves YOU money.

[malaise]

234. We have good tap water

but we also have to stock up on water during the hurricane season. I never buy small bottles of water.

Sp.