DINOs to the left of me, DINOs to the right, here I am!

[Ravy]

With apologies to Stealer's Wheel.

I just wanted to take a moment to say that not all Democrats are progressive, nor do many of us want them to be. You can look at the recent war resolutions and how the press talks about the lack of message of the Democrats. We don't lack messages, we have LOTS of them. We debate issues and do not fall into lockstep behind a failed policy like the Republicans.

Democrats can rightfully disagree on the war, on abortion, on many issues. Some here call them DINOs if they do, and pledge to support other candidates in the general election if this person or that person wins.

I hope those posters realize that those statements make them DINOs too. Those that come here and say that they will vote Green, or even support Republicans if someone who voted for this or that wins the primary or will NEVER vote for anyone who voted this way or that way are every bit a DINO as those they are expressing outrage over.

I will work and support my primary candidate by trying to pick them up, not shoving their primary opponent down. I want my candidates to win the primary, but if they don't, I will still be voting Democratic in the fall.

[MADem]

1. Three cheers for the BIG TENT!!!! n/t

[pnwmom]

18. You said it, MADem!

And I second that. Three cheers for the BIG TENT!!!!

[TahitiNut]

2. Are you from Cincinatti?

:evilgrin:

Lookin' for some peace and quiet?

Sorry, you're the only bait in town.

:rofl:

[tyedyeto]

3. In my neck of the woods (or desert as the case may be)

it's Repugs to the left of me, Repugs to the right, here I am!

Altho I am seeing a 'slight shift to the left.

I've heard comments yesterday and today suggesting the nuking of No. Korea but I've also heard comments about the failed diplomacy in the same region... all by Repugs.

[AuntPatsy]

4. But don't you believe that there should be a political party that shows

support for all the people? By ignoring some very real issues that effect millions of Americans to be treated fairly are we not then allowing freedom to be nothing more than a false show?

[azurnoir]

7. Is that even possible?

All people? That would take all people agreeing on something that rarely happens even here.

[Ravy]

If Democrats keep getting shut out on the control of Congress and/or

the President, do you think the progressive agenda will ever have a chance to see the light of day?

It will be a long time before progressives can hold a majority of the seats in Congress, but we *can* control a majority in the party that holds the majority of seats in Congress. That is how you get your agenda passed.

[EFerrari]

25. This has to be the most incoherent political statement I've ever read.

What "majority" are you talking about?

The Republican majority? I assume not.

The corporate majority?

The bought and sold majority?

Which "majority"?

[Ravy]

26. Sorry, everyone but you seems to be understanding. I tried. (n/t)

[EFerrari]

27. No, not if you look at your responses. n/t

[AuntPatsy]

33. Are you suggesting then what amounts to selling out for poltical gain?

[Ravy]

36. Nope. I am suggesting that we need a moderate

element in the Democratic party, to represent the more moderate of Americans. The Democratic Party will never consist of just progressives, and it never has.

Progressives are not even a blip on the radar of a Republican controlled government. With just a few seats, and election fraud aside, a few percentage points in one state or another then the Democrats get control-- and progressives have a major voice. We would not even be close at all if we kicked out or failed to support the likes of Nelson of FL, Biden, Lieberman (if he wins), and others who have been labeled "DINO"s.

If we must be venomous, I wish it was more directed at Republicans.

[pnwmom]

14. What are the issues that the Democrats are ignoring that

the Republicans are doing better on?

Because if the Democrat doesn't win, the Republican will.

[azurnoir]

5. new slogan?

better a dino than a rino

[pooja]

6. I agree because it is what the system has become

I wish that we could elect people on who they are, what they stand for, and what they will do for the country. But we have 2 parties. The way our voting system is fixed, it only really allows for a 2 party system. When you add the 3rd element.. you take votes away from a candidate and end up with a buffoon.

[EFerrari]

8. Not all Democrats are progressives and the whole party pays for it. nt

[Ravy]

11. Well, we would be a lot smaller if we kicked all of the non-progressives

out of the party.

I would much rather see Keith Olberman leading his show tonight with the atrocities in Iraq, the failures of this adminstration's foreign policy, Republicans trying to ressurect their "solution" for Social Security, or Illegal Employers rather than talking about Leiberman's political problems.

[EFerrari]

12. You are talking about a PR strategy. I'm talking about core values.

They used to not be the same thing. :)

[Ravy]

13. Unfortunately, people who agree with ALL of our core values

are not the majority in this country. I think any political group could say that. Republicans are made up from the Religious Right, Neo-cons, Conservatives. None of them are a majority of the American population.

What I am saying is that the progressives can be a major, or the major voice in the Democratic party, and when the Democrats regain power (optimistic), then progressive leaders will control some committies in Congress, and a progressive agenda can be enacted.

Without it, not a chance.

[EFerrari]

15. Without what, exactly? Most American want their pensions safe,

they reject privatizing Social Security and they hate the mess that is Iraq.

They don't think the Katrina disaster was handled well and they feel ripped off at the pumps.

They are going out to see Al Gore's film in droves.

Who *did* vote Bush in last time? Where were those folks on the political roster?

:)

[Ravy]

20. Without a majority in congress.

Blocking a conservative agenda is one thing.

Progressive leaders can bring a progressive agenda to the floor of Congress. We need every Democratic seat we can to get there.

Who voted Bush in? Neo-cons, conservatives, religious right, idiots, voter intimidation/supression and Diebold.

Democrats who didn't vote or voted for other than Kerry played their part as well.

[EFerrari]

21. Ravy, you mount no coherent argument against a "progressive"

agenda -- which used to be called "a Democratic" agenda.

And, sorry, ideology ain't the problem. Accountability is. The majority of Americans aren't cons, conservatives, or in the fringes of the religious wrong.

We are the majority of Americans.

If your government is acting as if it's not accountable, it probably isn't.

[Ravy]

22. Perhaps you have been neglecting to read my posts.

I am not against a progressive agenda. I am a progressive. Why would I try to offer an argument against a progressive agenda?

BTW, the Democrats used to have a lot of conservative members too. That is when they got some progressive legislation passed.

[EFerrari]

24. Why would you? An excellent question. n/t

[pnwmom]

19. Progressives will have FAR more influence in the system if

Democrats control the majority than they can while the Republicans control everything. It is at THAT point -- when the Democrats are trying to hold their majority together -- that the progressives can use their voting strength to pull the party more to the left.

That is what the Republican right has been doing.

I don't understand why some people can't see this.

[Ravy]

23. Spot on.

[pnwmom]

16. The poster's not talking about P.R. We USED to be a party

where Scoop Jackson and Warren Magnussen -- on two very different points on the liberal/conservative spectrum -- could both be Democrats and could work well together to represent our state.

We USED to be a party that included southern Democrats.

Just as the Republican party USED to include liberal Republicans, like NY Mayor John Lindsay and Gov. Nelson Rockefeller.

I think we were better off before we started drawing all these lines in the sand.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

9. But the excess of diversity in the party lends credence to the

accusation that "Democrats don't stand for anything but hating Bush."

We need to present a united front of what we are FOR if we are to win the trust of the voters. With a majority questioning the Iraq invasion and occupation, an anti-war stance would seem to be a no-brainer (and would put us on the RIGHT and MORAL side of one of the defining issues of the past few years.)

[Ravy]

10. There is plenty of time for a Democratic agenda to be formed.

We are still in the primary process. Differences need to be spoken, argued, and noted for the election. I think there will be a Democratic version of the Contract with America (Dean is pushing one) and you will hear a lot more about it when we know what our team in November will be.

[EFerrari]

28. So, you want a version of the Contract On America

and you'd like us to just wait until the Gods determine what our "team" will be?

LOL!

I just CAN'T WAIT until I read what the Powers That Be would like us grunts to contribute to.

:rofl:

[Ravy]

30. No, I want you (collectively) to stop bashing Democrats...

and concentrate on the real evil party. I bet close to a quarter of the threads here are bashing one Democrat or another. If you want to promote a candidate, you can do it without bashing their primary opponent. Try saying positive things about YOUR candidate, not negative things against their primary opponent.

If you are here and say you will never vote for a Democrat that voted for one thing or another, or suggesting that you will vote Green, or support a Repbulican opponent in November. You are a DINO.

And by using the collective "you" (as you used "us") I am not pointing to you specifically, sfexpat2000. As I said in the original post, it is directed at those DU posters who are bashing Democrats and promising to support opponents or sit out the general election.

[EFerrari]

31. I am a Green. Have been since the Dems

in the Senate shamefully left the Black Caucus hanging in the wind in 2001. And, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

So, I am no DINO. lol

I've been satisfied to be part of the work the Greens have done and am also very interested to make common cause with Democrats. Not with media shills or image sluts but Democrats like Russ Feingold and Barbara Boxer.

There's no strategy like sticking to your values.

[Ravy]

32. Good luck with that.

You might want to check out the GD thread of the guy that is promoting contributing to Boxer's opponents.

[EFerrari]

35. My husband and I campaigned for Barbara

the first time she ran and we continue to be her strong supporters. And, you might as someone to attend to that knee jerk. :)

[pnwmom]

17. They will have an answer to that, too. Their answer will be:

the Democrats are flip-floppers. First they were for the war, now they're against it.
Or -- the Democrats are cut-and-runners. The going got tough, now they want to run.

We shouldn't be making our decisions based on what the Republicans MAY accuse us of. They will have an accusation no matter what we do.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

34. I'm not talking so much about the Republicans as creating a clear image

in the mind of the voter.

The Republicans have managed to maintain a unified message of "low taxes," "a strong defense," and "people not getting handouts."

Whether they actually abide by these ideas is open to question, but they speak with quite a unified voice on these issues, no matter what they actually do.

So where do the Democrats speak with a unified voice? Abortion rights, probably. Other than that, everything seems to be up for grabs. They can't even agree about the issue that is warping everything else, the astronomical sums of money being wasted in an immoral and futile invasion and occupation of a country that never threatened the U.S.

The war is THE reason that there is "no money" for health care, affordable housing, aid for education, mass transit, intercity rail, and other infrastructure projects that would strengthen the nation far more than ANY "Defense" Department boondoggle and would provide living-wage jobs for people who are struggling today.

One of the Republicans' greatest triumphs has been convincing the public that wasting trillions on military pork that has no practical use is "building a strong defense" while providing food stamps for the underemployed is "wasteful government spending."

If there is any idea that I would like to pound into the public's head it's "Military spending IS government spending."

[Ringo84]

29. I'm no DINO!

(not that you suggested that I am)

I support the Democratic party and its views. Even if they call me treasonous, elitist, and every insult in the book, I'm gonna stay with the Democratic party because the Democrats are RIGHT. And the Republicans are wrong (on most issues).

:toast:

I'll be voting Democrat too. In case I forget to go vote, I'm going to mark it on the calendar and write myself a bunch of notes. I want to make sure that the RW disease spreading through Washington DC is cleaned out with Vitamin D. (if you know what I mean)
Ringo