Are the DUers who are getting sucked into the N Korea Scare Story

[ConsAreLiars]

also being convinced by the agitprop put out against Iran? And did they buy into the Iraq war BS at the time? Are they arguing some version of the "We have to finish the job" (whatever that might be) before the occupation can be ended?

I am surprised (I guess I shouldn't be) that some think N. Korea has the capability (or soon will have) and intent to attack the US. Or that Iran does (or might). Or that Iraq did (or could).

Is their cowardice so great and their ignorance so complete that some people actually believe those things? Or is there some other reason people are arguing that some attack on N. Korea is a good idea, or Iran?

Just asking.

(edit typo)

[pooja]

1. I think the point has been that N. Korea posed a

greater threat than Iraq ever did.. N. Korea has a dictator who is hell bent on having nuclear capability.. Once he gets his shit together, what is he going to do with it? Will he sell it, attack a neighboring country, or just have them to say he has them? I am not saying that we need to send troops in and cause another mess. And I think that with N. Korea, if they really get a nuclear weapon that works and are going to use it, I think the we will just send our own in instead. Maybe this is why they don't see N. Korea as a threat. They are rather isolated and don't let people in or out, so to bomb their little space wouldn't be seen as all that bad. Who knows, its not like any official person is going to say.. yeah, we'll let him get this far and then we'll just blow his country of the map... so don't worry.

[Erika]

5. But Condi and Rummy said we had to fight Iraq because

of the possibility of mushroom clouds. OK. It all turned out to be lies.

[uppityperson]

2. Are you calling me a coward or ignorant?

I have always been much more concerned about N.Korea, think they could get to be a threat, but am not calling for the USA to attack them yet. But I do think Dear Leader (Kim Jong-il) is like (dear leader) Mr.bush in that he needs an outside enemy to exist, to be able to continue. Hence the 2 are made for each other and can feed off each other's threats. Also both have nuclear powers.

But I do not think that an attack on N.Korea, or Iran, or Iraq, is a good idea. Does that mean I am ignorant or a coward?

[ConsAreLiars]

6. Based on what you have said, definitely not .

There are some who seem to think that attacking N. Korea is appropriate because they are a danger to the the US (or might be). My own view is that "Dear Leader" (the one over there) has watched "The Mouse that Roared" quite often, and that "Dear Leader" (here) is too dumb to get it, and his handlers are just delighted to have another bogeyman to scare the ignorati who will flop over on their backs, wet themselves, and trust in their masters.

[Erika]

8. and who will kill many innocents in the name of peace n/t

[uppityperson]

9. Do think they are not a danger ro the USA, or might be?

[ConsAreLiars]

11. No, no danger at all, other than the scaremongering is a ploy

to allow further consolidation of power by those who are a true and present danger. The danger we face is unrestricted corporate fascism, not an attack by one of the most impoverished countries on the planet. The ideology in that country (Dear Leader stuff) is just as bizarre as the fundie dominionists here, maybe less so, but no threat. The fundie crazies, on the other hand, are here, now, and far more powerful.

(edit typo)

[Mojorabbit]

17. I think they could be a problem

because if they do attack Japan we will have to go to war as an ally. I believe we have a treaty to that effect but might be wrong. Either way we will go to war. This could piss off China. It could be bad. I have no idea what to do about it except open up dialog. I am not freaked about it but I am also not totally unconcerned either.

[ConsAreLiars]

20. "Could be"

That's the problem. The same "could be" justification for war was made against Iraq, and the US slaughtered a quarter million innocents using that kind of "reasoning." Millions were murdered in Indochina using "could be" scaremongering ('the domino theory'). You are right that any concerns can be addressed through negotiations, but instead what I see is a completely irrational attempt to create a "TERROR" out of nothing but more "axis of EEVIL!!!" fiction. And some are buying into the scare agenda.

[Mojorabbit]

25. True

but there is legitiamte concern and fake concern. N Korea bombing Japan is a legitimate concern and dialog needs to be opened up. Iraq was a fake manafactured concern. I think there is a difference.

[Erika]

10. How true

It would be like Iowa confronting the tiny states of the Mideast.

[puffthemagicdragon]

19. whats wrong with iowa

oh how I loath iowa bashing

[Erika]

3. North Korea is a tiny country like Iraq

There is no profit center, no monetary power. Just like Iraq. W is making a fool of himself by attacking countries the size of Iowa and thinking they could be an honest threat to us.

The Bushbots aren't smart enough to see the facts only W crying wolf. They are like crying sissies, "W, please protect us" from that tiny country with no economic basis but does have a few missles.

[davidinalameda]

4. I guess that countries with a nutso as dictator and the capability

the nukes they have aren't threats

:wtf:

[ConsAreLiars]

7. Scared you, huh?

Boo!

[Erika]

13. We worry about that with W

Many right wingers want W to nuke the whole mideast. We actually can do it. Does it make you feel safe that we can knock them down like they were flies and we made the
fly swatters? After we nuked the population centers in Japan?

[davidinalameda]

16. what does this have to do with NK having the capability to launch nukes

Clinton recogized that NK was a problem, and I think we should do something about them before they can reach the US with their warheads

[LSK]

28. but it doesnt have that capability....

:shrug:

[davidinalameda]

30. it does have the capability

one test doesn't prove anything

you honestly think that they can't get the technology to launch their nukes, then I have a couple very nice bridges to sell you in San Francisco

[ConsAreLiars]

31. More Kool-Aid??? -- You seem to like the Berry Scary flavor

Are you really that easily frightened? Or so gullible as to think that N. Korea can and will send a nuclear missile flying toward your house? The fact that they can't get one in the air for a minute and no evidence of intent doesn't matter, I guess. I suspect the WMD-Iraq propaganda had you fooled also, or am I mistaken?

[lildreamer316]

12. .

[BuyingThyme]

14. I don't see anybody pushing the Scare Story very hard.

It's more of an international joke -- a pissing contest between a hairstylist turned dictator and a guy who's lost his pisser.

[Erika]

15. good analogy. n/t

[puffthemagicdragon]

18. yes, I thought he was a threat in 2001

when he reared his head from lacking attention - yes, I think his acts could create a lot of hostility throughout the world. I thought in 2001 that he was more a threat that Osama Bin Jammin' - so YES flame me, call me an idiot, do whatever you want...this guy is crazy but he can certainly stir things up.

[ConsAreLiars]

22. So you think N. Korea will attack the US

because you think their dictator is crazy? And suicidal? The people I've seen interviewed who actually dealt with him say that he is not nuts, just shrewd. Chimpy and the PNAC monsters decided to put an end to a rather boring status quo and ended prior agreements, and thus called him out. He has since then responded with the same kind of macho belligerence that now passes for 'foreign policy" in the US. So maybe he is as insane as they are, but the idea that he has the power to cause the kind of massive bloodshed that Chimpy and the Goons have let loose on the world seems absurd.

(edit typo)

[puffthemagicdragon]

23. no, not physically but psychologically YES

I am not afraid of an actual missle hitting the US from him but I am afraid of his behavior - it could ingnite ignorant people to do ignorant things

[ConsAreLiars]

24. You're afraid because Chimpy and the Neocons are ignorant fools

and likely to behave irrationally? Well, that is a real basis for concern, although what N. Korea might do is pretty irrelevant. They've already shown that their cowardice and greed will cause thousands of deaths and misery all over the planet whether Kim Jung Il rules in N. Korea or not. There is plenty to be afraid of, but N. Korea is not the cause of any of it. The neocons and corporatists and fundies are real reasons to be afraid, and the real enemy.

[upi402]

21. Good post OP! Seems many smart people are easily propagandized

I think they have a tendency to intake information deeply and retain it. And with all the propaganda on the TV news, along with the huge shift to the right, even Democrats have internalized the jingoism, symbolism, and other ploys of a corporatist state.

[BeFree]

26. Look at it this way

If you saw a crazy man waving a loaded gun around on the street would you run away and hide or would you take steps to take him down?

NK has that crazy man waving a loaded gun.

[LSK]

27. where on DU do you see anyone saying to attack NK???

I suppose if you read every thread you can find 1 or 2 trolls out of the thousands here who might say that.

:shrug:

[npincus]

29. N Korea not a "scare story"- it makes B*sh's dick limp

(figuratively speaking). This event is NOT a good one for B*sh and the WH. It is a disaster, in my opinion.

It is a bullhorn to the world that our policy of pre-emption was a failure, and the US cannot back it's "axis-of-evil" bravado and cowboy rhetoric, that the US only invades small countries without nu-cu-lar weapons (which will certainly get every country who feels threatened by the US to get in the nuclear development game), it is a reminder to the American electorate that diplomacy was short-shrifted for Iraq but now B*sh is doing back-flips for a diplomatic solution with N. Korea. Even his conservative base is starting to grumble about how he has f*cked up with N Korea, that he has put all his foreign policy 'eggs' in one basket with Iraq and ignored other dangers.

The N Korea situation is NOT a winner for the Shrub. And, Kim Jong Il is f*cking crazy crazy crazy. I don't believe he can hurt the US, but he can hurt some of our allies (S. Korea, Japan)- now THEY are feeling scared. If that little nut shoots a missle at one of his neighbeors, that would put this country in an unpleasant spot.