Are We Liberals Snobs or Just Misunderstood?

[stepnw1f]

Talking with my right wing brother, he told me he didn't want France to win the World Cup, because to him "the French are snobs who look down on those unwilling to be culturally open-minded"....

I asked him what he meant and what led him to believe such a thing; with that he answered that he kept hearing the same from others' experiences. He also said the Liberals were the same way..... And with that I laughed, and said that it was a stereotype, feuled by misunderstanding and fear.

So anyway... I wanted to see if others have had the same experience with those on the right who accuse us (liberals or French) of being snobs. Are we snobs or just misunderstood, or maybe a little of both. What say you my fine DUers....

Add comments too, please.

[AngryAmish]

1. it is not our fault

if Republicans are baby-eating satans.

[stepnw1f]

2. lol

[devilgrrl]

3. Neither... We're informed...

which makes us dangerous :scared:

[Cha]

45. Dangerous

"snobs" :)


"Snobs" is just another word for kill the messenger!

WTF :wtf: is bush and his "have mores" if we're "snobs"? Hmmmmm?

[annabanana]

4. being proven right over and over and over again

probably has gone to our heads...

[xchrom]

5. well, they're willfully stooooopid --

so who are they to judge?

[JDPriestly]

6. Compared to what?

Compared to Republicans like Ken Lay and Libby and Cheney and Jenna and Barbara Bush (the twins), your big business and small town country club Republicans --- No, we are not snobs. Many of us are union members who work the 40+ hour week. Most of the rest of us are low level white collar workers, bureaucrats or low paid professionals such as teachers and social workers, etc. No, for the most part we can't afford to be as snobbish as the wealthy Republicans.

[stepnw1f]

8. true

[niyad]

7. can we say "projection"????

[jobycom]

9. Some are snobs, but true liberals are egalitarians.

Read DU. See how many people shout about popular actors or songs or movies or whatever, with complete scorn not only for the entertainer but for the people who like the entertainer. Look at how many people use terms like knuckle-dragger, mouth-breather, or other derogatory terms for blue collar workers, or southerners, or "rednecks." Or Christians.

Yes, a lot of so-called liberals are intolerant, petty snobs who feel they are justified in their own prejudices because of a "superior" understanding of art, music, literature, whatever.

None of that comes close to the sins of the Republicans, mind you. There may not be a lot of difference between someone who hates NASCAR fans and someone who hates brown-skinned non-Christian people, but at least liberals aren't actually going to kill NASCAR fans.

(yes,yes, I know the standard disclaimer of hating the art but not the artist, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about those who launch into degrading profanity-laced personal attacks on the artists or fans, not who say "Kincaide's art bores me because it simply repeats a clever but overused technique," or some such thing. I don't like Kincaide's work, either, but not because I find those who do unworthy.)

[stepnw1f]

11. Very Well Said

I would say both, but I'm leaning more towards "Misunderstood". Alot of what I hear are misperceptions of Liberals views on things. On the outside, it looks as if many are being snobs, but then you see: "I don't like Kincaide's work, either, but not because I find those who do unworthy."

I get this alot from right wingers. Most I find, ASSUME you hate Kincaid for political-social reasons. I as well as you, feel the man's ability to paint and style is in question not his person or character.

[jobycom]

15. Agreed.

Most of us are misrepresented or misunderstood, more than snobs. The image is hurt by those of us who are snobs, though. :)

And to me it's far more arrogant to invade a nation of non-white people without any concern for human life when we all know they would not use the same solution on a western nation. We invaded all of Afghanistan because of one group of criminals who had committed a horrible crime on the US. During the invasion we dropped bombs on thousands of innocent people to get to the one we wanted. We even fired an unmanned rocket from a drone to kill three people because one of them was tall and we knew that Usama bin Laden was tall. No Republican would dream of doing that in their own neighborhood. Who would authorize bombing an entire wealthy American suburb to get at one murderer held up in a house somewhere, especially if we didn't know for sure which house? Who would authorize us, like King Herod, simply slaughtering any person who fit the description in America? WHo would say we should have bombed New Jersey into oblivion, killing tens of thousands of people, because we heard that the Anthrax killer lived there? And yet Republicans didn't blink an eye when we did exactly that to Afghanistan.

[hfojvt]

41. it is not about hating Kincaid

it is about looking down your nose at people who like Kincaid. You know, the same uncultured clods who think cheese and Budweiser taste good.

[Union Thug]

13. I agree... There is definately a split between the...

academic, ivory tower styled liberal and the workers' democracy/union inspired liberalism. I don't want to take this too far, because there are certainly going to be academics who lived through and understand class conciousness, but, at least in my opinion, it is impossible to truly understand the needs of the working class unless you have been there.

Where the right has been effective is in dividing the working class using religion and family values to distract from economic interests. It doesn't help that Democrats in general have been sucker-punched into moving their economic positions to the right (which plays right into the hands of the right wing), because the economic division is now so blurred that it looks like religion and values is the only battle left on the field.

Anyway, more to the point, the progressive movement is the child of the working class movements of the late 19th and early 20th centuries and in my opinion, this is where we need to focus to be successful again. It's great to have the academics and professional class on our side, but some of them need to get off their high horses. Just my opinion, of course. :-)

Putting on the kevlar suit...

[drm604]

26. "ivory tower styled liberal"

This is not an attack on you so you won't need your kevlar suit, but when you use terms like "ivory tower" in reference to academics you are echoing right wing talking points and reinforcing their frames. I know that you're not doing it deliberately but it's important to avoid it.

[jobycom]

33. I agree with you on that.

I come from a blue collar background but spent a lot of time in academia (grad student, mostly). The whole concept of the Ivory Tower Liberal with no real-world experience is more literary creation and Republican PR than reality. Same with the "absent minded professor" cliche. High intelligence usually brings higher perceptive skills and above-average general ability. There are exceptions, but those cliches always strike me as sour grapes thinking.

[Union Thug]

50. Point taken, but

often times, those kinds of stereotypes have a basis in fact. I work with a woman who couples her liberal claims and affiliation with the Democratic party with snide remarks about working people who don't live up to her pompous standards. Construction workers are a favorite target of her contempt. Anyone without an advanced degree is hardly worth her time. This puts a strain on our work relationship because I never completed my degree, but I have 'achieved' the same level of 'success' (whatever the hell that means) as she has. We are both 42 years old and Program Managers at the same company, god forbid. In her eyes, I should never have seen the inside of an office building except to clean toilets or vacuum the floor.

[drm604]

58. I have no doubt that there are people like your co-worker.

There are pompous snobs in all walks of life and of all political affiliations. However the "ivory tower liberal" stereotype usually is used to imply that all (or nearly all) people in academia are pompous idiots with no real life experience. The truth is that there are no more snobs in academia than there are anywhere else, and they have real lives just like everyone else.

It's fine to criticize your co-worker for her real individual shortcomings but it's important that you don't unintentionally smear a whole group when you do so by using unfair stereotypes.

I'm sure that you know this already, but I just wanted it to be clear to anyone else reading this.

For the record, I have a college degree (just a BS) and I grew up in a blue collar family in a blue collar neighborhood. I've known people like you who've achieved success without the advantages of a degree and you get nothing but respect from me for it.

[EFerrari]

30. I was introduced to the concept of the working class by a Berkeley

liberal professor. And, there were a lot of people like her in that department.

It wasn't that I'd never worked or never belonged to a union, only that the idea wasn't developed in my thinking.

It strikes me that academics and the working class have much more in common that the simply monied liberals who don't benefit from the mentorship of either.

But, I'm a hybrid of those classes so not exactly unbiased.

:)

[EFerrari]

28. Nobody's perfect.

:rofl:

[blue sky at night]

10. we all need to learn to....

stay OUTSIDE of the "Good Opinion" of others. Say excuse me and go about your business. To do otherwise is to empower them.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

12. We are in kind of a difficult situation, actually

because there is no doubt that the more education one has, the more liberal and open-minded one is in their views. Add to that the fact that the more intelligent one is the more likely one is to have a higher education. Which translates into liberals are smarter. And because liberals are also egalitarian, that is a difficult concept to deal with. It is like the elephant in the room.

And in our society there is no doubt that we judge people according to their intellectual capabilities. It is probably the last bastion of acceptable bigotry. If you have an IQ of 140 it is very, very difficult to appreciate someone who has an IQ of 90 and therefore an entirely different world view. We all know on one level that the smarter person is not "worth" more than the less able. And yet... and yet... when you are face to face with a person spouting RW talking points because he/she is limited in their own mental acuity and buys into the koolaide, then it is very challenging to appreciate them as human beings with their own right to their own opinions, some of which are a direct function of their mental ability. It is hard not to dismiss them as "stupid rednecks." (or whatever)

I have met very, very few liberals who can do it.

[stepnw1f]

14. Good Point

[Clark2008]

16. Some people are willfully stupid, though.

I know quite a number of very intelligent, highly educated REPUBLICANS. Their worldview is just skewed, in my opinion, and they can't seem to understand how the Republican positions hurt, not empower, people. These types of Republicans honestly believe - and can spout off what they consider well-reasoned proof - that the Republican approach gives others chances.

It's not that they're ignorant - they just don't believe as we do.

And that can be frustrating.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

17. You mean like

Ayn Rand Republicans? (spelling??)

[stepnw1f]

20. yup

they really annoy me.... sociopaths

[neebob]

21. Yes, very good point.

However, I don't think it's entirely a function of intelligence and education. This is at the heart of my struggle with my parents - both smart people, and I'd be really surprised if either of them had a much lower IQ than I do - but they both bought into Mormonism and all the right-wing crap you can think of.

With my mom, it's like there's a wall in front of her, and she knows it's there. If you manage to poke a hole in it, she might peek through for a minute but immediately decides she doesn't like what she sees and sets about plugging the hole. She'll tell you she needs a reason to be here. With her I believe it's an emotional thing stemming from her need to be loved by a man, because her dad put a lot more stock in her older sister.

With my dad, I'm pretty sure it was about ego and needing to be the man of the house and the king boss man decider. His dad died when he was 6, and his mom grabbed the first man who walked by because, as the single mother of three small children in 1943, she felt she had to. And the guy she grabbed just happened to be the kind of guy who thought that cold-cocking a kid on the driveway was an appropriate punishment for lying about having taken some apples from a neighbor's orchard. And his mother became very bitter (not in the good way) and sort of clung to him as her golden reminder of the husband she'd lost and inadvertently taught my dad that he could do no wrong - except to her, of course, which is why I say inadvertently.

And my mom (not Mormon, not a wingnut, needing a man to love her) and dad (Mormon, see Wingnut Handbook, needing another woman to hang on his every word) found each other and fed each other's emotional needs. And they gave birth to a smart girl who grew up and had a happy career accident that exposed her to a lot of education, and she became a liberal snob.

And by the way, I think it's okay to be one.

[Jade Fox]

25. I think it's a little more complicated....

than just being about education. (see my post below).

While education certainly is a factor, I believe the most important elements that make a Conservative are emotional. This has been posted many times before, but here goes.

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml

I believe conservatives want equal time (at least) given to their emotionally based "opinions", regardless of whether those opinions can be factually proved.

[EFerrari]

32. I think the more ed one has, the more empathy one is trained to have

even if you didn't have it in the first place. So, I'm not sure I agree with you on that one.

But you made me think that some RW genius hired a consultant who said, "Liberals are more educated".

And then, they set out to demonize education.

[neebob]

36. Empathy has to do with brain function and early parenting

as well as education. There's research showing that empathy is a key attribute of successful learners. And education (formal or otherwise) is a good way to get out of Bumfuck, Wherever you came from - if only vicariously - and experience other cultures and viewpoints.

My mom was inexplicably good at the early parenting thing. Dad didn't really give a crap what anyone else thought or felt, except as related to his integrity and authority. He did have a great deal of personal integrity. And unfortunately, neither of my parents ever got far enough out of Bumfuck, Utah, to meet many people who were very different from them and do a reality check on the garbage they were taught.

Anyway I think empathy vs. selfishness is a big chunk of the heart of the conflict between liberals and conservatives.

[EFerrari]

38. I tend toward critical thinking being the difference.

With the caveat that I'm talking about this new, degraded Republican party. My father is a real Republican and he's one of the best thinkers I know. (And, he'd never tell me this but these people nauseate him.)

If you're in a burning building, you need to think about the good of the majority not just your own sweet @ss which involves thinking critically. Because your survival is bound up in theirs. I guess that could be called "ethics" -- the greatest good for the greatest number.

I live with someone whose brain doesn't do empathy so am somewhat aware that it can be taught with good success. That's the good news. :)

[neebob]

40. Well, yeah. Now that you mention it,

critical thinking is a huge factor. Education tends to help that along as well.

[hfojvt]

43. when you say bumfu$% Utah

are you talking about Farmington, Provo, or Emery, and do you also mean to be derogatory about anal sex?

[EFerrari]

46. Did you mean to post this to me?

:)

[neebob]

47. I meant it in a more figurative sense,

not intending to be derogatory toward Utah or anal sex. Do you have a particular problem with one or the other? Because I'm really tired of of the semantic thought police.

[hfojvt]

54. I did not say anything about Utah

My question was whether you consider Provo, with 90,000 people, to be a backwater hick town, or Farmington with a mere 10,000 people, which, however, is smack in the middle of the Salt Lake City-Ogden metro area. You certainly intended to be derogatory towards small towns but we small towners have learned to expect that, and probably did alot of that ourselves when growing up. Plus I myself perennially engage in disparagement of big cities, and to me, anything over 75,000 is a big city.

[neebob]

55. Actually, my family lived in Salt Lake City

until 1973 and then Arvada, Colorado, until 1980, and then back to Salt Lake, and my parents continued to live there until about 1983. Before I was born, while my dad was in the Navy, they lived in San Jose, or maybe it was Santa Clara. I'm not sure. My dad even went to Japan.

I myself now live in - or I should say near - a town with a population of I don't know, maybe 20,000. The entire county population is about 50,000. And I love it, and it would take a lot of money to get me to move to the big city. And since you asked, that would include Provo by my present standards.

So, you see, I really did mean it figuratively. Stop being so certain about what other people mean.

Incidentally, I've seen the town I live near disparaged right here on DU, and guess what - it didn't bother me. Calling it Bumfuck, Colorado, wouldn't bother me. I might call it that myself.

[EFerrari]

67. I have no clue what you are talking about. My favorite place

to live was a mountain town of about 3K.

[neebob]

69. He was addressing me,

apparently trying to ascertain whether I had a problem with small towns, assuming my parents lived in one.

[drm604]

61. Oh, absolutely they hired a consultant.

Probably Frank Luntz

[Breeze54]

34. Don't agree at all.

"The more education one has, the more liberal and open-minded one is in their views"
:rofl: NOT!!! What a joke!

"the more intelligent one is the more likely one is to have a higher education"
:wtf: Tell that to the smart kids who don't have $$ to go to ivy league or any college!

"If you have an IQ of 140 it is very, very difficult to appreciate someone who has an IQ of 90"
No capacity for compassion from the more intelligent or supposedly higher IQ?
That I might agree with! :sarcasm:

"It is hard not to dismiss them as "stupid rednecks."
More like brainwashed. And they don't all live in "redneck" country.
Plenty of them in the northeast too. ;)

-------------------

I think the lack of understanding is based on lack of experience.
I've met many and am related to clueless, well-educated, successful, liberals from the northeast!
High IQ's too! ;)

[TallahasseeGrannie]

51. Really?

You disagree with educated folks being more likely to be liberal and open-minded? I mean, I am sure there are exceptions, but in general, aren't the universities and particularly the faculties, predominantly liberal? What's your take on it?

[Breeze54]

53. Yes!

Take a look at the GOP. They have plenty of well-educated,selfish, non-compassionate, closed-minded freepers!
Having a degree does not make one 'smart'. Plenty of people have degree's and are dumber than a box of rocks.

[kiahzero]

63. Even the GOP realizes more education -> more liberal

"As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing."

-- Karl Rove

[tlsmith1963]

65. Actually...

I went to the Democrats because I thought they were smarter than Republicans. I always felt that liberals had more interesting things to say. I went against much of my family (my family is full of Republicans), but I felt the Democrats were a better fit for me.

Tammy

[kiahzero]

66. Definitely

The modern Republican party is domininated by anti-intellectuals of all stripes.

[Warpy]

18. "refuse to be culturally open minded????"

Hell, I look down on those people, too. They're the xenophobic idiots who want to rebuild the Great Wall of China on the Mexican border, force 90 year old grandmas who just got here from Vietnam so they can die with their families to learn English, and say stupid things like Catholics aren't Christians and black folks are lazy.

I think the French weren't being snobbish. I think they were being perfectly sensible in viewing the Ugly Americans who wanted them to abandon their culture in their own country in favor of ours with deep contempt.

So yeah, I guess that makes me a snob, that contempt for ignorance, arrogance, and bigotry.

[Jade Fox]

19. I think what right-wingers are really saying.....

is that Liberals have more experience and knowledge than they do, and because of that we dare to have a lot of confidence in our opinions and beliefs. Conservatives want their opinions to be given equal weight with those of people who simply know more, and consider themselves to be the victims of snobbery if that pass isn't granted to them. .

We currently see this thinking everywhere. The media is condemned as "liberal" because of it's emphasis on reporting facts, not Conservative fantasies. Right-wingers have a problem accepting that some information is simply better than other information because it is info based on study and investigation, and has passed the test of time. Conservatives tend to be literally reactionary, in that their "views" are based on their own emotional reactions

[Maine-ah]

22. some are and some are not snobs.

but for the most part we're misunderstood, which I think has mostly to do with the right wing and media spin machines.

[ComerPerro]

23. I am a snob, because I demand that

my president not be a moronic, alcoholic, drug-abusing, drunk-driving asshole.

Apparently that makes me a snob

[omega minimo]

24. Does it take a "snob" to figure out yer "just misunderstood" BY DESIGN

OF THE ROVIAN REICH MINDFUCK MACHINE?





(Where's the choice for "Neither"?)

[drm604]

27. Not so much misunderstood as misrepresented.

The right wing has put a lot of time and effort into building up and supporting a strawman caricature of their opponents and, unfortunately, they've been very successful with it.

[leesa]

29. "...those unwilling to be culturally open-minded" What does that make

such a person? He lives in a world of cultural diversity but he refuses to be open minded about that diversity...isn't that a bigot? So we should celebrate his bigotry? That's some twisted logic. I love they way bigots rationalize their narrow-mindedness.

[Deja Q]

42. Just means we're against offshoring intellectually-challenging jobs.

Confidential ones too, but that credit report is free so who's gonna care?

I'm America first. And I know people, on both sides of the political aisle, who are the same. exact. way.

[RandomKoolzip]

31. Most liberals I know live right around the poverty line.

How the fuck can we be the "snobs" when we can't even pay our bills?

[LibDemAlways]

35. No one is more of a snob than a repuke with a big

bank account. I've met plenty - absolutely insufferable.

Name calling is a famous rw pastime. Problem is too many people believe it. If anything, progressives are down to earth, open-minded, generous, and kind. Snobs? Not.

37. people like to hang on to their culture

even if it is a meager, materialistic culture. Our country is rather poor in terms of culture I think. Baseball, football, partying as a youngster, are the big draws, and male oriented.

I am envious of the beautiful clothes and food of some cultures like India, also their music and dance. I can only take so much rock and roll myself.

I think yuppies think they rule this country, but they don't.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. Thank God for the snobs.

George Washington - Southern Aristocrat slaveholder.
Thomas Jefferson - Southern Aristocrat slaveholder
James Madison - Southern Aristocrat slaveholder
John Hancock - Northern Aristocrat capitalist and slaveholder
Benjamin Franklin - Northern capitalist and slaveholder/trader
John Jay - Northern capitalist and slaveholder
Franklin Delano Roosevelt - Wealthy capitalist, went to boarding school and Harvard.
John F. Kennedy - Wealthy capitalist went to boarding school and Harvard. Nannies and servents throughout his life.

And, a lot more.

Some non-snobs, "men of the people"

Andrew Johnson
Richard M. Nixon
Ronald Reagan
Adolph Hitler
Benito Mussolini
Joseph Stalin

I find the question irrelevant snob vs non-snob irrelevant.

[UDenver20]

44. I'm definitely a snob....

haha

[conflictgirl]

48. The snob label relates to education, and this is one of the neocon memes.

Not necessarily higher education either, especially as higher ed. becomes increasingly unaffordable for all but the wealthy. Even before I went back to school, I was always trying to educate myself. Not surprisingly, I have been called a snob more times than I can count, simply because of the choices I make. I think the snob label does relate to education. For example: because of my self-education, the kind that has not taken place in a classroom, I know that mainstream, processed food is not healthy for us. I would rather spend three dollars on a very small container of organic berries than on a giant bag of potato chips. If I say that I don't want the giant bag of potato chips because they're fried in oil and made with genetically modified potatoes and artificial flavorings, I'm going to be called a snob because I don't want the food of the masses. If I even use the words "genetically modified" or "artificial flavorings" people are going to roll their eyes at me and think I'm a snob. I would never come out and say that people who buy the potato chips are uneducated. But if they ask me why I don't buy them (and people in my family have done so) then just answering their question earns me the snob label. To even say that you think one thing is better than another is enough reason to slap you with the snob label, unless the two items being compared are comparable. For example, like Coke over Pepsi or vice versa won't result in you being called a snob. But if you don't drink soda at all because you care about the risks of diabetes from high-fructose corn syrup, or the potential health risks of aspartame, you'll be called a snob. The only way to avoid being called a snob is if you do what everybody else does and don't question the choices you make.

If you do anything different from the mainstream, chances are you'll be called a snob. If you watch PBS, someone's going to call you a snob. You don't have to go on some big rant about why people who *don't* watch PBS or who prefer watching reality TV are dumb to result in getting slapped with that snob label. Test this, and I bet you'll see that I'm right. Randomly go up to 20 people in any place where "average" people gather and ask them what they think of people who watch PBS. I'm willing to bet that the majority of answers will be negative.

What this really comes down to is a societal shift away from anything intellectual. It really does say something about this society that people voted for Bush because he seemed more like a man they'd like to have as a drinking buddy. I don't want the President to be Joe Average; I want the President to be one of the best thinkers in the country, who can look at all perspectives and determine the best choices to be made for the sake of our country and its people. That doesn't mean that I think there's anything wrong with *being* Joe Average, either; I just think that some jobs require above-average intellect.

I'm discovering, as I decide what to do next about grad school, that intellectual thought is not valued. Critical thinking skills are not valued. What is valued is making money. What is valued is "just getting by". Anyone who wants to use their mind to make their community or the world a better place is instantly suspect, rather than someone to be respected. Where did this come from? When did we become a society where being intellectual was a BAD thing?

It's not snobby to want to make the world a better place for people of all classes. But the neocon meme has been adopted very well, even by people who don't consider themselves neocons. Of course that's what it comes down to, though. If people who are educated and intelligent and not particularly interested in mass culture can be demonized and considered suspect, then it follows that being under-educated is a better thing. Being undereducated means that it's easier for those in power to shape society in the direction they want it to go. Before you know it, the avenues for people to educate themselves - whether through formal education, libraries, public broadcasting, investigative journalism, etc - will be dismantled, and what's worse very few will miss them, because they have been conditioned to believe that those forms of education are tools of the enemy, of the "snobs" that no one wants to be like.

[B Calm]

49. I rather be snob and or misunderstood than a republican maschocist

[Freedom_Aflaim]

52. Its not being a snob if you can back it up

The reality is that liberals ARE more intelligent, enlightened and aware of the world around them.

The reality is that conservatives are generally stupid and ill informed.

Of course an intelligent person is a snob when viewed from the vantage point of a dumb conservative.

[Swamp Rat]

56. I'd rather be a snob for democracy than a souless fascist who kills babies

and hates Jesus.

[EFerrari]

68. Well, when you put it that way!

:rofl:

[Ksec]

57. Ive seen both.

I am misunderstood by lots of folks.

Im terrible at showing who I really am, online and off. My sis in law thinks I am uppity. Im not uppity, Im just better than most people..

[NMDemDist2]

59. I'm too poor to be a snob

but I speak English very clearly so I doubt they can't understand me when I clearly state they are ruining the country with the Puppet and his minions

so I'd have to say "Neither" :evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

60. we are snobs, holier than thou, and arrogant....

but then they are just down right stupid and gullible and so damn black and white, so......shruggin.....

[oasis]

62. Demanding the truth is snobish. Taking the government's word as gospel

is sheepish.

[tlsmith1963]

64. There are Snobs in Every Group

Even Republicans have their snobs. So the label can be unfair to liberals because we are not the only group that has snobs in it.

Tammy

[Raine]

70. Snobs...

because being on the correct side certainly gives us good reason for being snobs. :D