How about no immigrants if unemployment is above 4%.

[heidler1]

I'm not convinced that when the unemployment rate is higher than 4% that their are not plenty of citizens to employ first.

[skipos]

1. How about we crack down on the businesses that hire illegals? nt

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. How about no exporting of your job overseas if the unemployment

rate is higher than 4%??

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Deja Q]

5. Won't stop Microsoft, if they cared.

The fines, as set by the system, are just for everyone except large corporations.

And with scum like Best Buy, whose atrocious geek squad (I only hear massive complaints) is now being positioned for corporations, only big corporations are going to be left.

[MADem]

6. Money is nothing to those bums; mandatory jailtime is the ONLY thing

that might wake them up.

They'll factor the fines into the cost of doing business. Hell, the GOP Congress would probably give them a tax rebate on them!!!

Sorta like owning a small business, and buying the wife a LEXUS SUV that, in essence, is a FREE CAR with the tax rebates...!

[Warpy]

7. Money is EVERYTHIING to them

which is why they hire illegals at starvation wages even though it's not as convenient having a work force that doesn't speak your own language.

[MADem]

21. Sure, but a hundred or two hundred K, that's CHUMP change

Fines have to be much stiffer to cause them to change their ways. Hell, they can bribe authorities for a teeny percentage of that amount, and lock their workers down so no raids can happen easily, and always ensure an alternate route away from the work site, not readily known to strangers. Even putting 'cat and mouse' methodologies into the work site is cheaper than paying the fine.

The only thing that causes their drawers to fill with stool is the prospect of losing their liberty for substantial periods of time. That's why I'm a fan of mandatory jail time. Fines aren't punishment, they're a business expense. Jail time, now that's starting to look like punishment...

[Warpy]

25. Again, not to home builders

janitorial firms, slaughterhouses, or even WallyWorld. Those fines would HURT.

[bluestateguy]

4. Won't work at this time

That's all fine and good if you trust the Bush Administration to provide truthful unemployment numbers. The numbers they provide are as cooked as patties on a barbecue grill.

[Cleita]

8. Okay, here's one for you. What if employers had to hire you

for a job even if you are overqualified. I have known many people who lost their good paying, professional jobs and who were willing to take lower paying jobs but the employers wouldn't hire them because they were overqualified.

There was actually a story twenty years ago about a TV newswoman for the local FOX station, channel 11 who was laid off from her job and became homeless because no one would hire her even as a secretary because they said she was overqualified.

So, it seems we have to do a lot of work on our end here before we start blaming the immigrants for what are really problems in our system.

[readmoreoften]

9. Yes, I am far more affected by outsourcing than my immigrant neighbors.

Millions of American office and professional jobs went to india. Why are we worried about our borders?

[Cleita]

12. Because the pukes really aren't interested in people having

jobs or even the immigrant issue. It's what they do to appeal to baser side of their constituency, in this case racism. They do the same when they bring up partial birth abortion, and the gun issue. It's a scare tactic to divide us and get the votes of those whom they duped.

There is an excellent study, dated August 2001, put out by the North American Integration and Development Center School of Public Policy and Social Research University of California, Los Angeles, titled "Comprehensive Migration Policy Reform in North America: The Key to Sustainable and Equitable Economic Integration" at this website:

http://naid.sppsr.ucla.edu/pubs&news/public/wp_012_01/migrationpolicyreport.PDF

It actually lays out a program that is workable for everyone concerned, but considering the date of the study, which I believe was done for the Bush White House, it has been completely ignored. They don't care.

(edited to fix link)

[TahitiNut]

15. "overqualified" is code language for "too old."

More and more, businesses want young, naive, compliant workers. Corporations are placing immature people in management positions who are totally unqualified for those positions if only by virtue of their immaturity - they can't even bring themselves to sanely interview an applicant that they equate to their "parents' generation." I can't even count the number of times I've seen this. It's all consistent with the dumbing down and decimation of the workforce. Corporations don't want people who rock the boat. The executives want kids still under the thumb of the executives' parentalism - the authoritarianism of "because I said so."

[Cleita]

17. That too, but I was told this when I was twenty five because

I had been the office manager at a business that was dissolved because the owner had a heart attack and died. I was not able to get a job like an ordinary office worker because they said I was over qualified. I could not get a job as an office manager because they wanted someone more mature. I finally did get a job when I lied on my resume.

[heidler1]

30. I agree and also the inexperienced will follow stupid orders

that will cause big problems. The boss don't care because he/she figures to move on before it turns to shit. The inexperienced are like cannon fodder. This is the Bush style of governance.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. We would not have ilegal immigration

if we did not have a market for them, how bout we fine those employers first?

By the by, under bush last year ONLY three employers were fined, and nominally that is, not even the maximum by law. Under Clinton, the last year over 300 were fined, to the maximum allowed by law

Moreover, half of our ilegal immigrants have come in during the last five years, so all of this talk from the GOP is just that TALK. They love the cheap labor

[unlawflcombatnt]

28. Exactly

The Bush dictatorship just loves cheap exploitable labor. Bush has no intentions of letting an immigration bill pass that doesn't increase the flow of illegal immigration into this country. And Bush's "amnesty" proposal is really for the benefit of the employers, not the illegal immigrants themselves.

There won't be any employer prosecutions at all if Bush has his way. The whole idea of Bush's "comprehensive" reform is to find a way to amnesty the employers who've been hiring illegally.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[TahitiNut]

11. "Immigrants" aren't the problem.

Even under the immigration laws, guest workers and H1B visas are for "non-immigrants." What we're doing is importing the labor and refusing citizenship to the human being! This is the commoditization of human labor. This is a government of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations.

It's disgusting to me that knee-jerks in this thread immediately leap into the rhetoric of "illegals" and "xenophobia." That's fucking nonsense.

Again, corporatists are disenfranchising the working class - creating a low-end workforce that has no voting rights. Ex-felons, guest workers, H1B visa workers, and "illegals" populate labor without a voice. Labor unions are virtually destroyed and politicians feel no obligation to 'represent' people who can't vote.

We've totally lost sight of the fact that the sole legitimacy for business licenses, intellectual property, articles of incorporation, and other entitlements has been the "public interest." It's time for the "corporate death penalty" and massive criminal sanctions against executive management for acting contrary to the public interest.

[ProgressivePatriot]

13. How about no immigrants if a single American is out of work? eom

[Cleita]

14. Considering that we always have needed immigrants since the

first day we put feet on the New World and colonized it, I don't think that will work. We will always need immigrants. Something else that isn't in the news except in very fine print on the thirtieth page of the features' section of most newspapers, is the emigraton of Americans to other countries, including India who are following their outsourced jobs.

[ProgressivePatriot]

16. I agree....

Guest workers is a good idea for seasonal work but, we should look into putting people to work who are able and using social programs to survive. Give these folks a place to go and get them training so that they can get off the dole.

Emigration is bad....it continues to drive this failed economy further into the ground.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Am I hearng tghe soubnd of the WTA

How keynseian of you.

[ProgressivePatriot]

20. What I said has nothing to do with....

using government money to stimulate the economy...research your terms.

[1932]

19. Work creates work. I'd rather see interests rates go down first.

There's a much closer relationship between high interest rates and reduced investment in things that create jobs than there is between immigration and unemployment.

People generally don't emmigrate to places where they can't work, and unemployment is caused by other problems.

[jsamuel]

22. stop the xenophobia and solve the problem

[Cleita]

23. That just makes too much sense.

:toast:

[jsamuel]

26. Doesn't it

:toast:

[unlawflcombatnt]

29. No, stop the false claims of "xenophobia" and solve the problem

When the name-calling starts, we know the amnesty advocates have joined in the fray. And they have no interest whatsoever in protecting American workers.

The problem will be solved when employers are held fully accountable for illegal hiring. But none of the people throwing around claims of "xenophobia," "bigotry," "racism," or "white nationalism" have the slightest interest in 'solving the problem.' Their only interest is labeling anyone opposing illegal immigration as a "racist" or "xenophobe."


Such hollow, race-baiting rhetoric is a deliberate attempt to disguise the issue as one of race, rather than one that worsens the lives of American workers, to the benefit of illegal immigrants and the employers who illegally hire them.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

24. How about we build a wall and send the National Guard..oh, wait.

People are going to go where there's work and a living. That's why 99% of our ancestors crossed the border.

[unlawflcombatnt]

27. Great Idea

I think the rate should be around 3%. This administration would come up with a way to concoct an unemployment rate that is lower than 4%. The current rate should truly be around 6.5%, but the Bush dictatorship has re-classified 3.5 million unemployed workers as "not in labor force." Therefore, they aren't counted as "unemployed," and it drops the total number of those unemployed from over 10.5 million down to around 7 million.

Still, it's hard to justify having 7.2 million illegal immigrants employed in the United States when there are over 7 million Americans classified as unemployed.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[Hippo_Tron]

31. Unemployment in itself isn't one of America's biggest problems

Our unemployment rate is much lower than other nations. However, finding a job that makes ends meet is damn near impossible.