Just So You Know. THIS Is What Democracy Looks Like!

[leftchick]

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/wl/062706mexicoelection







Thousands of supporters of Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador attend a rally to protest against the result of last weekend's election in Mexico City's Zocalo square July 8, 2006. REUTERS/Daniel Aguilar (MEXICO)

CNNI reporting over 100,000 at the protest!

:bounce:

[helderheid]

1. RIGHT. FUCKING. ON!!!

edited to add the photo you had trouble with on top

[leftchick]

3. when the 2006 election is stolen

If the US does not respond this way, there is no hope.

[helderheid]

4. agreed leftchick!

[KingFlorez]

9. When it's stolen?

Let's hope that doesn't happen

[helderheid]

11. Why would the Republicans stop now? n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

49. They won't. They can't afford too. nt

[leftchick]

23. you can hope all you want

the cards are already in play.

[IndyOp]

29. There are so many elections, how/when will you *know* IT was stolen?

I want everyone to think about this now...

What will you do if an election near you appears to have gone bizarrely wrong, in light of public sentiment and events before the election? In light of exit polls? In light of what the candidate and/or citizens say about their experiences? How will you make sure that you know if there were any problems for candidate/citizens - given that we know that the corporate media will not report?

[ladjf]

39. Any election that has no verifiable audit trails and that hasn't

been monitored by International election monitoring organizations, where mass irregularities are occurring must be assumed to be fraudulent whether there are or are not. The people must not be expected to simply trust that the party in power will honestly take care of all the people's best interest. That would be like allowing people to withdraw the money from banks where the cash is simply sitting in open boxes on the counter, trusting the people to count out the right amount and report that to the bank.

In Florida in 2000, 150,000 voters were illegally classified as ineligible to vote. That has been proved in court. That is fraud. That would have changed the outcome. Massive irregularities occurred in Ohio in 2004. They have been proved. That was fraud. Why is any honest person still considering the possibility that all of the fraud talk is some kind of tin hat conspiracy? Is there no limit to American's gullibility?

[robinlynne]

53. we had one here in san diego last month. There seem to be so few people

willing to stand up and stop this. I feel more and more like I live in an isolated world, and the world outside just ignores what is happening. I can see absolutely nothing more important than trying to get honest elections i this country so we can stop the madness.

[IndyOp]

56. They've been lulled to sleep by the corporate media...

Check out the handouts and docs at VotersUnite.org -- they very effectively communicate what has been happening across the nation.

I've been speaking to local progressive groups (about 100 people in the past 3 weeks) and handing out the documents. I speak tomorrow to the county commissioners and to the City Council during the first week of August.

The people I am speaking to just don't know what has been happening - they have no clue.

They get their news from TV (CNN, CBS, PBS - NOT FOX) or from radio (local NPR). They read the local newspaper.

They are smart, they DO care. They won't read about it in the corporate media.

[derby378]

14. You mean "IF"

Keep saying "when," and it will actually happen.

What do you want us to do? Patrol all polling places with shotguns to prevent e-voting fraud? I'd rather find a more peaceful means of securing free elections.

[helderheid]

18. This sounds somewhat like what Russ Feingold said about evote fraud:

MODERATOR: This questioner wants to know why there is no concern about voting machines: no paper trails, inadequate numbers of machines in Democratic areas, problems in vote counting, no public outrage.

FEINGOLD: Oh, there is, just not in this time. If you go to any meeting of Democrats or progressives anywhere in America, you will not get through that meeting without somebody saying they’re worried sick about the voting machines, and Diebold and all that. In fact, they’re very concerned that we pass legislation, such as Representative Rush Holt has proposed, with regard to paper trails.

We have the paper trail requirement in Wisconsin, but in order to have that requirement, in order to have this work, I think it needs to be a national requirement.

Now, of course, the party in power doesn’t want to have that bill go through, so the tragedy is, we may have to go through another election without that reform being passed, but it should be one of the top priorities after the Democrats take over the Congress.

[earth mom]

17. Sad but true. Although...

if the corporate media had honestly reported the truth about the stolen election of 2004...maybe people would have protested if only they had known...

[leftchick]

22. I have thought the same thing

Election fraud is now pretty common knowledge now thanks in Part to Lou Dobbs. There is no excuse even if, as I suspect, the Corporate media plays the same game as the last three elections.

[struggle4progress]

45. These things usually aren't entirely spontaneous:

it takes work to craft the organization and develop the consciousness to get people involved and ready to turn out ...

[RufusEarl]

2. It was that way here, back in the day!

[Terran1212]

5. How many people were there?

[theoldman]

10. Maybe the left in Mexico have bigger balls.

It's not the Democrats in the US that do not have a backbone. It's our Democrat politicians that need an implant.

[Terran1212]

38. Exactly, the left activists do everything!

The politicians do nothing and then try to distance themselves from the left's activists -- then complain when they are attacked in the media for being leftist.

Maybe if they actually compromised and reasoned with activists sometimes..

[leftchick]

24. CNNI reported the stadium and grounds held a120,000

and it was almost full. :)

[Cha]

6. Makes me cry

for happy..Viva Mexico!

[Swamp Rat]

7. I open my arms to these great democrats to the South!

They obviously love democracy as much as I.

We could use more like them here in the USA.

[texasleo]

8. They're only going to get larger

I wouldn't be surprised if they put 2 million people in the next few days.

[intheflow]

12. But when we gather 100,000+ strong,

we're just a small dis-satisfied group of tinfoil hat wearing college students. :eyes:

[smokey nj]

33. Exactly...........

On April 29 of this year, I marched in Manhattan with my nephew and 350,000 of our closest friends and nobody noticed.

[jobycom]

13. No it isn't.

That's what love of democracy looks like. Democracy is when that wins. Keep your fingers crossed. We had such beautiful sights here, but democracy lost to establishd judicial beauracracy and legislative inertia and plain old political self-preservation.

[TahitiNut]

21. Bingo. Right on.

The elite in Mexico tolerate it as long as they continue to have a Gini Index of 0.56 and half the country is kept poor to keep the rich wealthy.

[Joanne98]

15. Don't forget to rate these pictures up.

[undeterred]

16. Fantastic!

I hope a lot of Americans take a look and learn!

19. great

watch for MSM to spin it as being bad for us. Unrest, destabilization, people spilling into United States.

[Totallybushed]

20. so why can't we

do that? This is something that I have never understood.

[leftchick]

25. well first off

people in the US have to become aware that their vote does not count. They are coming around but damn! It has taken so long. :(

[Totallybushed]

26. How did the Mexicans

get the word out so fast? What energized their citizens? America has the most advanced communications networks in the world. Not just the MSM, which, as everybody know is completely controlled by the corporate whores, but radio, internet, cell phones, faxes, etc.

Mexico is an economic disaster, and they can communicate with the people better than we can? Something is missing in the equation.

[hippywife]

28. Probably not so much as getting the word

out so fast as people hanging on the news to see how the election came out and what the candidates had to say about it. It's a matter of giving a shit which few in the country do anymore. Too busy watching The Amazing Fear Factor Race of the Bachlorettes and shopping to pay attention or care that their own democracy is dying.

I mean, it can't happen here can it? :sarcasm:

[Totallybushed]

51. I still think something is missing.

Look. In the United States, the people who voted Republican had no reason to complain. OK, so they were mistaken, and ill-informed. Maybe to lazy to become informed; maybe they actually support Bush's policies.

But what about the over half of the electorate that voted for Gore, or Kerry? Why aren't they out in the streets, every day? It's there votes that were stolen. It's our voters who are apathetic.

Let's say the Mexican election was stolen. Their left party has the energy to at least get some street action. Their party officials are complaining and pursuing legal actions. What are the Democrats doing? How do we light a fuse under them?

[FredStembottom]

52. There probably is an entire book possible in answer to that.

But I would guess that, maybe, the reason we don't respond like that is because we have such advanced communication. In a constant attempt to constantly use all that tech. - in the hippest ways possible - we have all stopped being a part of our own comparatively dull, geographical neighborhoods.

We talk to the world but not to the guy next door. Probably don't even know who he is.

I think Mexico is just far enough "behind" technologically to still have viable geographically based communities as opposed to isolated individuals who merely occupy the same zip code.

Perhaps in Mexico, entire neighborhoods still get all riled up together and that builds turn-out for these things.

Pure speculation on my part.....

[Totallybushed]

55. Actually, I think

you may be on to something here. People are out in the street instead of plugging away on a keyboard in their basement or bedroom somewhere.

Possibly, the very effort of putting our thoughts about the issues drain some of the emotions out of them. Some psychologists, and dear abby, for instance, advise writing letters to people you are angry at, detailing all the reasons. Then burn it without sending it. They claim it helps. Maybe something like that is going on here.

After all, you really can't get a protest going unless there is some emotion. It's like a fiery love affair. You may intellectually realize the girl is absolutely beautiful, but if something in her personality doesn't jive with yours, you won't be attracted to her.

And then, people face to face, talking and discussing feed each other their emotions which can ignite into direct action.

I really think you may be right. I don't know what it means to the progressive movement, though. The internet, etc, are the way things are, now, and we have to learn to work with what we've got.

[FredStembottom]

62. Well, I certainly don't mean that Internet activism is in any way bad.

I think I meant something much narrower than that. It's logistical. I can get all fired up reading DU, ready to take to the streets, outraged to my toes - but what happens when I get up from my chair? My neighbor is cutting his grass. The other is watching TV. A third is sunbathing. Another is "making the Andrea Doria out of balsa wood", etc.

If I storm outta my house all in a rage.......I'm just nuts. I'm the nutty neighbor because they not only don't know what got me hot - they aren't even discussing anything at all.

I just wonder if Mexico might be just "behind" enough that the main entertainment is still the technologically simple one of neighbors in neighborhood watering holes. Where entire rooms full of folks can get all hotted up about the same injustice all at the same time! And storm out into the neighborhood where people say "what's Juan all upset about?" Because they actually know Juan. And so on and so on.

Remember how much of our history is tied up with pubs and beer and impromptu declarations inside pubs while drinking beer.

:toast:

[robinlynne]

57. the Mexican candidate! he called for a recount and called for the rally.

our candidates want to "look good" and walk away, with the exception of gore.
If busby or kerry went on antional tv while the votes were being counted and said, look these votes weren't counted correctly, people to the streets, the ne4ocons wouldn't have had this beautiful red carpet spread out for them to walk on.

[Totallybushed]

61. Yeah, but

even with Gore, there were very few and iineffective protests after the totally illegitimate decision by the Supreme Court. And despite the best efforts of people here on DU and other internet forums, there doesn't seem to be anything really happening to prevent it in the future.

Where is the anger that ought to be present given the currrent conditions in the country?

[RagingInMiami]

27. Democracy is my type of girl!

[mom cat]

30. If the press says 100,000, it was probably more than a million.

:kick:

[Clarkie1]

44. Why do you think it was probably more than a million? nt

[mom cat]

46. I am assuming the usual attemptw to misrepresent the number of

protesters.

[leftchick]

31. 100,000 in Mexico protest Obrador loss !!!!!!

MEXICO CITY - More than 100,000 defiant supporters of leftist presidential candidate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador massed Saturday in a bid to overturn his narrow election defeat with protests that threatened to widen Mexico's regional and class divisions.

Lopez Obrador told the huge crowd he would present allegations of fraud to the nation's electoral court Sunday and request that every one of more than 41 million votes be recounted, to expose what he called wrongdoing that cost him the election.

"We are going to ask that they clean up the elections. We are going to ask that they count all the votes — vote-by-vote, poll-by-poll," Lopez Obrador said to wide applause.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/mexico_elections

Holy Shit!



Thousands of Mexicans rally for presidential candidate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador of the Democratic Revolution Party (PRD) at the main Zocalo plaza in Mexico City, Saturday, July 8, 2006. (AP Photo/Marco Ugarte)

[Rainscents]

36. From the photo, it's well over 100,000 to me.

It look over million there. AP can't fucking count.

[blonndee]

32. That first sign! It says "No to fucking fraud!"

Or, "No to the fucking fraud!"

[leftchick]

34. really?

:rofl: Apparently the AP does not know. :)

[blonndee]

35. Yeah really!

I laughed out loud when I read it. You'd think at least ONE copy editor would try to translate the Spanish. :)

[oddtext]

37. Mexico may inspire America to save ourselves! eom

[ladjf]

40. Venezuela has already shown us the way to honest elections.

Now Mexico may be doing so as well. It's going to be up to the courts. They may be as rigged as ours was in 2000.

[EFerrari]

41. No al pinche fraude!

I mean, hail to the thief!

lol

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[mnhtnbb]

42. This, Senator Kerry, is what cojones look like!

[Clarkie1]

Is there any evidence the election was not fair? nt

[BeFree]

47. Yes.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

50. Very little.

The Guardian, the Economist, and the Telegraph have all reported that the election appears to have been fair.

However, it was close enough that even very slight irregularities could have made a difference to the outcome, which is why the ostensible loser's supporters are protesting so vigorously in the hopes of discovering & proving some and overturning the result.

[robinlynne]

58. umm. you've forgotten the 3.3 million uncounted votes, plus the votes

found in two different garbage dumps, 2 precincts full, and then there are the 823,000 votes with NO choice for president. You would have to believe that 823,000 people went to the polls, registered, got a ballot, then did NOT vote, and put their ballots into the ballot box. think so? note: The ballot is only for president. Other races were on other ballots. That means 823,000 people clearly and purposefully voted for NO president. for reference: go to gregpalast.com and read his mexican articles.

[robinlynne]

60. oh yes, and the election software, owned by calderon's brother in law...

[Clarkie1]

43. delete. dupe.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

48. No it isn't.

What democracy looks like is rather dull - it's a long line of people shuffling into a ballot box and casting their vote, and at the end of the day the reporting officer comes forwards that Smith has won, by so many votes to so many, and everyone accepts the result and goes home.

Mass protests by the losers at the result of an election are at best a neutral sign, and often indicate an unhealthy democracy.

[robinlynne]

59. losers?

[leftchick]

63. there are always a few

who deny the obvious. :eyes:

[Maestro]

54. I wonder if Yahoo knows

that the sign says, No to Fucking Fraud. Eh, a little vulgarity can't hurt. And it is nice to see so many protesting.

[RagAss]

64. That little kid has more guts than all of us in 2000 and 2004.....

We're pitiful....