Recent Arrests in Terror Plots Yield Debate on Pre-emptive

[spindrifter]

Action by Government

By ERIC LIPTON
Published: July 9, 2006
WASHINGTON, July 8 — In Miami last month and now in New York, terror cases have unfolded in which suspects have been apprehended before they lined up the intended weapons and the necessary financing or figured out other central details necessary to carry out their plots.

For officials in Washington, it is a demonstration of the much-needed emphasis in this post-9/11 era for pre-emptive arrests.

<snip>

But the Miami and New York cases are inspiring a new round of skepticism from some lawyers who are openly questioning whether the government, in its zeal to stop terrorism, is forgetting an element central to any case: the actual intent to commit a crime.

"Talk without any kind of an action means nothing," said Martin R. Stolar, a New York defense lawyer. "You start to criminalize people who are not really criminals."

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/us/09plot.html

[rustydog]

1. I don't think that is the problem...the justice department

hasn't done shit since the last election. november mid-terms are coming up fast and the
Republicans are knee deep in shit poor approval ratings.
All of the sudden, we have terror arrests!

How many will be made in august, Sept? taking any bets?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

2. Yes, and when there's no requirement for hard evidence to arrest, you

can produce a splashy arrest, complete with news stories, of any randomly framed group of suspicious seeming individuals, at any time of your convenience, like, say near an election.

[Eugene]

3. Rounding up the usual suspects

In a related AP article, Michael Chertoff is touting a proactive and preventative
approach to potential terror plots. Expect a lot more of these plots to be
disrupted over the next four months.

Priority Shifts to Disruption of Plots

By DAVID B. CARUSO
The Associated Press
Saturday, July 8, 2006; 9:09 PM

<snip>

"We don't wait until someone has lit the fuse (to) step in and
prevent something from happening. That would be playing games
with peoples' lives," Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff
said Friday as Assem Hammoud's arrest in Lebanon was being
announced.

<snip>

The formative nature of the suspected plots prompted skepticism.

Joseph Cirincione, a national security analyst for the Center
for American Progress, a liberal think tank, said he worried
that the arrests of rather minor conspirators were being
played up for political purposes.

"This is starting to look like the president's version of rounding
up the usual suspects," he said. "There is a pattern of dramatic
announcements, followed by revelations that these plots weren't
as serious as we all initially thought."

<snip>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/08/AR2006070800513.html

[ThoughtCriminal]

4. Internet chats v. Reality

How many times in the past few years have we seen idle threats by right-wingers against various Middle-Eastern targets and even domestic locations? This is given a pass, despite a history that proves that these threats are not "Just talk" (Oklahoma City, Atlanta, Birmingham...)

[rodeodance]

5. way past time to start questioning the concept of pre-emption!!

[originalpckelly]

6. I think this line is the best description of the new "policy"

"It was essential that the F.B.I. get rid of its pre-9/11 mentality of not making an arrest until they have enough evidence to convict..." --Rep. Peter King

Um, excuse me? Does this sound just a *little* wrong to anyone else? Doesn't it sound like "thought-crime"? Dangerous territory. Very dangerous.

[blues90]

7. I refuse to buy into one more line of

terrorist crap , i don't believe it or buy into it .if it happen then I will suspect it was staged , always will always have . Yes people did die on sept 11th 2001 and it was horrid to see but forget the story of how it happened . If i become a victim them i won't know about it , so that said if it happens it happens and I am not spending one second being afraid or worried ,there is nothing I could do to avoid one anymore than i can avoid an earthquake here .