Photos of N Korea you weren't supposed to see

[psychopomp]

more:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82755

[Greeby]

1. Sent these to Malloy, shot me back an email and was very impressed nt

[psychopomp]

4. Yes, one really gets a sense for just how impoverished the people are

I realize they have some terrible weapons but when government trucks are breaking down on the street one has to wonder if we have overestimated their capacity to wage war. Just one layman's opinion.

[JI7]

2. saw these, they are very interesting

where are all the people at ? anyone know what the population of NK is ?

[Wilms]

3. 23,113,019 (July 2006 est.)

Age structure:

0-14 years: 23.8% (male 2,788,944/female 2,708,331)
15-64 years: 68% (male 7,762,442/female 7,955,522)
65 years and over: 8.2% (male 667,792/female 1,229,988) (2006 est.)

Median age:

total: 32 years
male: 30.7 years
female: 33.4 years (2006 est.)

Population growth rate:

0.84% (2006 est.)

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/kn.html

[Newsjock]

5. Or this

http://www.wikimapia.org/#y=38995573&x=125625701&z=15&l=0&m=h

The 10-lane freeway in Pyongyang that's almost completely deserted.

[Karmakaze]

6. Amazing...

I am absolutely shocked that a nation that has been at war for over 50 years would still have "defences" and other silly wastes of money. Don't these stupid commies realise they should be driving hummers through cities?? Damn!

And what is with all the pictures of Kim Il Song? I mean, he should take a leaf out of George Bush's book and do understated propaganda for his cause, like spending millions of dollars to hold a press conference on a multi billion dollar aircraft carrier at sea! Commies and their propaganda!

Oh ond what about the "minder"? Why would a nation that has been listed as a member of the "Axis of Evil" feel the need to monitor the activites of foreigners in such a blatant way? Why not just eavesdrop on them with trillions of dollars of spy gear like the NSA does? Much less offensive!

And oh my god, look at those broken down houses in the middle of a city! They should take a lesson from Detroit:



I don't know! Those damn commies!

[Warren DeMontague]

7. You know what, dude? North Korea is clearly a shitty place to live.

I can acknowledge that it ranks up there with Saudi Arabia (run by Bush's old pals, the family Saud) as one of the biggest totalitarian hellholes on Earth. I can loudly and unequivocally state that totalitarianism blows major ass, whether it's done in the name of Allah, Jesus, Karl Marx, Kim Jong Il, or the Osmond Family.

All without compromising my generally left-libertarian ideology or my support for a SPHC system.

News Flash- Stalin was a major shithead, too.

[texasleo]

8. Some people are blinded by hate

they are on the fringe of the fringe.

[readmoreoften]

9. That was really interesting.

It was much nicer than i thought it would be. i have no idea what people were expecting. those people commenting, have they ever seen the ghettos in the US before? And they were criticizing them for having an unfinished building? Bizarre. I honestly see no more flags, flag pins, or photographs of the Glorious Leader than I do in your typical southern town.

I don't know, I've lived in the slums of Nicaragua. Want to talk about obvious poverty and deterioration?

The beach scene was tragic, though. I don't understand totalitarianism. I can honestly say, I like the color scheme of their totalitarianism more so then ours. Gloomy gray, green, black, and red are very dignified compared to our garish neon fascism. But hey, least we don't pee in the streets.

Too often.

[Vidar]

10. Thanks for the pictures.

[Zynx]

11. There is no doubt at all that North Korea is one of the biggest shitholes

on the face of the earth with a universally low standard of living except for top party bosses.

[malaise]

19. Try Central America

where United Fruit Company and the Banana kings rule.

[bahrbearian]

31. Ever been to Mexico city?

http://images.world66.com/sl/um/_q/slum_quarter_in_th_1_web

Its three times the size.

[Zynx]

35. Last time I checked, Mexico didn't have a famine that killed 10%

of its population.

[radwriter0555]

12. It looks a lot like China actually. A lot of old structures, the elders

unwilling to leave (In Beijing, the old Hutongs); the newer structures aren't Watertower Place, now, are they? But it's not shameful or disgraceful or abject poverty by any means.

Not every nation is as luxurious as some parts of the USA. But NK is a lot better off than many other parts of the world.

I'm not grasping what the shock of the photos is. It's a communist country with trappings that are very Mao-like.. but at this pont it wouldn't appear to be anywhere near as bad as Mao.

Perhaps the propoganda is startling to some, but I've seen it so many times before, it's not so much a shock? It isn't any worse than the US paying homage every 2 seconds and every 12 yards to car adverts, shoe adverts and porn somehow....

[psychopomp]

14. I think they are interesting, not shocking

however there are a number of photos that detail the miserable conditions in NK that somehow escaped the government's handlers.

[OregonBlue]

18. Agreed. I travel a lot and these pictures look much like other Aian

countries. Seoul is also like this although fancier and cleaner. They have adopted that ugly, utilitarian, Chinese building style all over Asia. People still work the soil by hand in much of Asia. Women wash clothes in the water not just in Asia but in Africa, South America, etc. This country is undoubtedly poorer than most but doesn't appear much different than other poor countries.

[Zynx]

38. North Korea has a GDP per capita 1/20th that of South Korea.

The two don't even compare. North Korea is unquestionably in the bottom tier of countries.

[Zynx]

37. NK has a GDP per capita of just $1,000. Granted, some parts of the

world are worse, but compare it to South Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, or other parts of Asia that have chosen a different path and you will see just how backward and crushingly poor North Korea is.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

47. It DOES look like China, except for one thing...

There are so few people around.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. Here is another one.

http://www2.world66.com/northamerica/mexico/mexicocity/lib/gallery/showimage?pic=/northamerica/mexico/mexicocity/slum_quarter_in_th_1

Ooops, that's Mexico City.

Here:


Dang, that's Calcutta.

Here we go:


Oh my, wrong slum, that's Dhaka Bangladesh.

[Judi Lynn]

15. Thanks for the perspective! Very helpful, for sure. n/t

[RagingInMiami]

22. Wait, wait, here's one

Ooops, sorry, that's just detroit.

[MzShellG]

28. I was going to say it doesnt look much different than public housing....

Or homelessness in America, but your post pretty much proves my point. So easy to throw stones when you iive in a glass house. I'm not impressed by those pics. I've seen worse right in my 'home' country.

[leftchick]

30. oops here is another

wait it is the Bronx

[Roland99]

24. Wanna see what would happen if 100,000 protested in Pyongyang

over a political matter?

[Warren Stupidity]

26. North Korea is a brutal stalinist dictatorship.

However it does not have a lock on poverty, and as the OP sought to condemn the NK regime on the basis of the poverty evident in NK, I suggest that we hold a mirror up to our own system first. On that basis there is certainly a lot to condemn capitalism, and in particular the neoliberal form of predatory capitalism that has ruled the planet for the last 25 years.

By the way we seem to have no problem with the brutal fascist (and formerly stalinist) regime over in China, why is that?

[Roland99]

29. If you read the linked thread, that impression is not evoked.

At least I didn't get that impression.

Seemed to be more about total control of the populace and how "model" rooms are setup.

Besides, do you honestly think this foreigner was even remotely given a chance to see what must surely be utter squalor throughout most of NK?

[Warren Stupidity]

32. Actually that is exactly the impression I got.

Rather odd considering the Russian experience with neoliberal 'reform' that has transformed their own country from a dismal post-stalinist regime where everyone had a place to live, medical care, and food to eat, to a late capitalist hell-hole where the average life expectancy has plummeted, and the disparities between the elites running the kleptocracy and the people are worse by far than they were under the old regime.

Based on life expectancy alone, life in North Korea is better than life in Russia. Go figure.

[Zynx]

39. Compare North Korea to South Korea.

'Nuff said.

[Warren Stupidity]

42. I realize it is a small point but the demonization of NK

plays right into the hands of the PNACers. If it is shocking that NK has slums and poverty, then what can one say about the endless third and second world slums of our capitalist paradise? How is it that we are so ready to condemn others and so unwilling to look in the mirror? Why is it that any objection to the endless demonization of NK is held to be outright praise for and support of their dreary stalinist system? It isn't.

Consider for example the recent missile tests by 'that nutjob Kim' in North Korea and the wonderful government of capitalist India. Both nations are out of the NPT system. India actually has a deployed nuclear force, unlike Korea, and rather recently arrived very close to a regional nuclear war with Pakistan. It isn't even clear that North Korea has a bomb, or a missile capable of delivering a bomb anywhere. North Korea's recent missile test is declared to be a dangerous provocation, and the failure held to be demonstrable proof of the insanity of their leader and bankruptcy of their system. India, in the midst of a nuclear arms race with its neighbor Pakistan, launches its nuclear capable long range missile, which also fails, but that launch is not a dangerous provocation and India's leaders are not declared to be nutjobs on the basis of this launch nor is India declared a failed system. Why is that? How transparently obvious does the bullshit have to be before we get a damn clue?

[Zynx]

43. Sure, everyone has their slums.

The difference is that all North Korea is is a third world hell hole. There is no prosperity anywhere except for a very select few. If you think we have income disparity, it doesn't even compare. Look at any contrast of Communist systems to modern mixed economies whether it was eastern Europe versus western Europe, old China versus Taiwan before China essentially became capitalist and even since, North Korea versus South Korea, etc. It is a definite trend that is undeniable. The debate over whether or not Communism is a viable economic system is over much in the way the world also rejected total free market capitalism.

[Juffo Wup]

44. Your username is very appropriate

Anyway...

Are we not allowed to criticize a country without mentioning virtually every country on earth now? What are the rules for these kinds of things? Only mention bad conditions in countries that are allied with Bush? Make sure to let us know, so we don't make anymore mistakes.

[Judi Lynn]

16. Very interesting. Thank you. n/t

[OhioChick]

17. Thanks for posting......

Quite interesting. I've spent quite a bit of time looking at the various pictures.

[Generic Other]

20. More pics than I have ever seen of NK

Thanks for posting these.

[AZCat]

21. I'd like to recommend a book to accompany this...

"Pyongyang" is written/illustrated by Guy DeLisle (spelling?). He's a Canadian animator who travels to North Korea for a three-month stint as a supervisor of outsourced "tweening" for animation. His trip was so surreal that he decided to do a bit of "graphic journalism". I found it accessible for even those friends of mine who aren't big readers, and currently own two copies that are both out on loan. Definitely a good read IMHO.

[RagingInMiami]

23. So is every foreigner accompanied by a guide

At all times?

[NYC Liberal]

25. Incredibly interesting, thanks for posting! n/t

[robinlynne]

27. fascinating.

[bobbieinok]

33. remember in Clinton adm and earlier when there was talk of sanctions

against NKorea and debates about private groups sending humanitarian aid to NKorea??

Some adm and congress people said the aid ALWAYS went to the military and nothing got to the kids. Some adm people in both BushI and Clinton adms said 'you can't worry about children starving if you're trying to send a message to a repressive regime.' Similar to arguments about Iraq sanctions and starving children between Gulf War I and II.

[Roland99]

34. *** 60 Minutes NOW ***...interviewing US soldier who defected to NK

[helderheid]

36. no image

:shrug:

[CottonBear]

40. There are no pics in your post or at the link. n/t

[Theres-a]

41. Guess we really aren't

supposed to see them.

[Sydnie]

45. Did anyone save these?

Seems they have been "scrubbed".

[helderheid]

46. more:

http://www.tema.ru/travel/choson-1/