I do not believe Ken Lay is dead!

[Tim4319]

I know this is like beating a dead horse! But, I believe Ken Lay has gotten away from serving any time for his wrong doings. And, here are several points that I just discovered.

1. He was found guilty (obvious)
2. He died before he could serve his sentence.
3. He had a massive heart attack. Now, I believe that someone with the bank account Ken Lay has, if he would have known that his arteries were not in the best of shape and would have done something preemptive to correct that.
4. He is being cremated! Now, by him being cremated, there will be no evidence of a body. If he needed to be dug up for any reason, it cannot be done because the only remains will be ashes.
5. He is an acquaintance of George W. Bush. Even though I am sure he would have received a pardon, he probably refused to spend on day in jail. Plus, by being an acquaintance, I am sure he has access to all types of high level services. Such in this case, the Bushes could easily set something up through the CIA, have a fake death arranged and Ken Lay sent out of the country like the Bin Laden's.

Now, these are just my thoughts! I may even be over analyzing this. But, when I found out that Ken Lay was going to be cremated sent up some red flags to add to the other red flags that were already up.

<<snip>>
The Houston Chronicle, quoting a source close to Lay's family, said the cremation and Aspen burial had been Lay's wish because the mountain town, where he once owned several properties, was his favorite place in the world.

http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2006-07-07T130958Z_01_N07258747_RTRUKOC_0_US-ENRON-LAY.xml

[havocmom]

1. If not. he has to hide from Cheney

That might be worse than prison.

When I allow myself pleasant fantasies about the criminal junta, I picture Lay tucked away in some hide-away, protected by the good spooks who are engaged in a not-to-civil war with the junta at this time. Sort of a witness protection to the ninth power sort of thing where he lives to rat them all out to save his own foul hide.

Ah, such are my dreams.

Hope Cheney stays up all night pondering the possibilities. For, unless he had Lay iced, he needs to think about ALL the possibilities.

:evilgrin: Sleep well, Dick

[DemonFighterLives]

11. That could be the only positive outcome

and I had not thought of it. The good guys with White hats took him to glean the truth.
The other alternatives just offer an easy way out, not counting the heart attack.
:dem:

[havocmom]

29. Wondering if they did autopsy and if they checked for shell fish

Been reported he was VERY allergic to shell fish.

What did the Mrs. fix for lunch that day? His death (real or staged) seems profitable to the family.

[StellaBlue]

2. Me, either. nt

[Bruce McAuley]

3. So which funeral home has the body? Is it a REPUBLICAN funeral home?

Or could his wife have done it, just for the money? If he's alive he's a liability to her, to put it crassly. I have no idea of their (maybe former) relationship.
It seems too pat to me, but I like tin foil hats on occasion.
Early Onset Alzheimers'? Dementia? Paranoia?
Or the truth?

Bruce

[Biernuts]

55. Didn't know funeral homes registered by party affiliation

[Eurobabe]

58. Sure wasn't Fisher & Diaz

LOL!!!

[napi21]

4. I believe he's dead. If he would just be missing, or if he

would have been trapped in a fire and burned so badly the body couldn't be identified, I'd go along with you, but he died either in or on the way to a public hospital. There are far too many people there to be able to keep them all quiet!

There is also another party that will demand proof, and that's the insurance company that is going to have to pay off on a $9 or $10 MILLION policy! Believe me, they are not going to part with THAT much money if there is the slightest hint of a question on his death!

[koopie57]

7. I had thought of all the stoppers you pointed out

but still, something seems not right. So far as the insurance agency goes, 10 million to his estate? Sort of like chump change actually. If he is, this is the first time the media didn't suffocate greiving kin.

[treestar]

26. These people are at high enough levels for the 10 mil to be

chump change; the big insurance company executives would go along with it because they must benefit somehow from the whole military-industrial-media complex.

As to many people who wouldn't shut up, I am not so sure that is a good anti-tinfoil hat thing any more. There are surely threats to them that are good enough to scare the average sheeple into silence.

I know these things can never be proven but it is probably not something they could not do, let's put it that way.

[rinsd]

65. $10 million is chump channge for an insurance company?

That must be why they're all rushing to pay out those Katrina claims :eyes:

[hpot]

12. They can place him on a witness protection program

All documents related to Lay's death would be official. Our government had foreknowledge about 9/11 & Katrina and allowed thousands of people to die. Faking someone's death shouldn't be hard for these crooks.

Reference:

9/11 Foreknowledge Video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6757267008400743688

Video shows Bush got explicit Katrina warning
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11627394/

[rzemanfl]

15. First I heard of this big insurance policy. Is it payable to his

named beneficiary(ies) or to his Estate where it will but subject to the claims of his creditors. Who had the incidents of ownership of this policy?

[napi21]

24. I heard it's payable to his widow, and not subject to claims.

I'll try to find a link to the story I heard. I remember they said, for the most part, the Lay estate is out of money, and only has some properties remaining.
This insurance policy, not unusually big for a CEO of a large Corp, would go directly to his widow, and be exempt from any claims by creditors or the Feds.

I would think Ms. Lay could find a decent house and still live quite well on that payout!

[acmavm]

5. I don't think the whole truth has come out about this. I don't know that

I believe he's alive. Suicide? Put down like a dog?

I don't know. That's the worst part of the past 6+ years. I don't really believe anything anymore.

[CrispyQ]

10. The truth of this statement is so tragic.

"That's the worst part of the past 6+ years. I don't really believe anything anymore."

[smirkymonkey]

34. I think we should name it the "Era of Cynicism"

I have become completely incapable of believing the "official story" on anything.

[Flying Dream Blues]

38. So true. I don't take anything at face value anymore,

and it's a sad way to be.

[ohno]

47. Me too

When I watch the news I always try to discern what's not being said.

[bdamomma]

54. but look at what we are been dealing with for 6 years

after multiple lies, and knowing the Bush Crime Family either Lay is dead or alive, and I believe he was wisked away to some island not paying any consequences for what he has done.

[calimary]

35. I strongly suspect he brought about his own death.

The timing and the "benefits" from him dying - to his widow - and her inheritance not subject to claims against him, and how this conveniently preempts his having to face the public humiliation of prison time, and all those claims against him, plus the added benefit of his conviction possibly being set aside, so he goes to the hereafter, and into history, with a "clean" record - it just smells a LITTLE too fishy to me. Hell, it smells a LOT too fishy to me. Weasel took the weasel's way out. But it's not as though he won't have to pay something, somewhere... from a Judge far greater than any of ours down here.

It's just too fishy.

[OneBlueSky]

6. heading to Central America to hang out with Barbara Olsen? . . . n/t

.

[donsu]

62. kick

nt

[Breeze54]

8. Anybody checked Madame Tussaud's New York Wax Museum?

:rofl:

[Marr]

9. C'mon- what's more likely?

1. Rather than wait for his pardon with a short stay in a soft, white collar prison (if indeed he ever would see prison), Lay decides to risk everything and commit all sorts of new crimes to fake his death. He enlists the aid of a whole list of people, and no word gets out.

or

2. A 64 year old Type-A asshole dies in his home.

[Hubert Flottz]

14. I'll take door number one!

Why would an outlaw care about more crimes if he was already facing life in prison?

Better check the big NORAD bunker there beside of Fort Carson!

[Mugsy]

28. Appeal would have failed. Bush never pardon.

Since a "change of venue" was not allowed in the main trial, it would unlikely be allowed on appeal, so the outcome would most certainly have been the same. That would just leave "Presidential pardon".

I know I'm in the minority here when I say that Bush would NEVER have pardoned Lay. In Dub's mind, he is still the "Law & Order" candidate, and there is no justifyable reason why someone that committed such an agreegious crime would be deserving a Presidential pardon. If you can't justify/rationalize it, your Party is left trying to defend it... and that would be political suicide. So a "pardon" was out of the question.

So then, how DOES a president secretly help out a friend w/o encurring the wrath of the public? You help him fake his death and obtain safe passage out of the country.

Look at everything working on Lay's side: In Texas, if you die before your appeal, your record is expunged, so you are no longer a wanted criminal. Also in Texas, "The Homestead Act" protects your personal assests from threat of a lawsuit, and he still had the finances and resources to live comfotably in private for the rest of his life.

And now that I'm hearing he is to be cremated... if not one photo of the deceased Lay ever surfaces, I'll remain convinced for the rest of my life he got help in faking his own death.

(Keep a close eye on what happens with his "widow" over the next year.)

[mod mom]

60. I'll also take # 1. It's hard to believe that 64 yo multi-millionaire w

access to best healthcare money could buy wouldn't be aware of heart condition. A little too convenient in a point of history where convenience always favors one particular set of thugs.

[B Calm]

13. Most people have an open casket funeral before cremation. Will

Ken Lay? I don't believe he's dead either! Money can buy anything in the United States.

[KoKo]

16. The key is that the family felt obligated to rush an autopsy to silence

questions they knew would be coming (and why would they know there would be questions). Plus, the fact that the Media has been very silent on this with only the NY Post and a couple of online columnists suggesting anything is amiss.

Whether he committed a convenient suicide or is sipping those margueritas in the Caymans or is in a Chalet in Switzerland....his death is just too, too convenient for the Media not to have been crawling all over it...if it happened to one of Clinton's buddies.

His trial was delayed for years (supposedly because the case was so...so complicated) and now he's missed his sentencing and supposedly is off free with Skilling possibly getting a new trial because of Lay's death? Family keeps all the money and in a few years no one will even remember who Ken Lay or Enron was and what the crime was.

All those Day Traders of Enron who laughed at cutting off "Aunt Millies Electricity" are probably working for Hedge Funds now and are multi-millionaires laughing all the way through their Mansions at how "Kenny Boy" in the end FOOLED EVERYONE.

[madokie]

17. I would say he is healthy as a horse

the mental image I keep getting is United Arab Emirates the same place dick & w and the rest of the crew will flee too if they are removed from our house ever. I can't make myself believe a word or an action that has anything to do with this illegal cabal. And lay is/was a part of it.

[calimary]

37. And that's another thing - have there been any reports, previous to

this, about him having a heart condition?

BTW - my father was cremated and my mother had an open-casket service beforehand.

I smell a rat. A BIG ONE. I don't know if he faked his own death or not. But I KNOW this was not on the up-n-up. I feel it in my bones. I think he took the weasel's way out to avoid all the shit that was coming his way. Just a little too convenient, indeed.

[HamdenRice]

18. Lay's death is the second fish Enron death

In January 2002, another Enron executive, Clifford Baxter, was found dead in his car, an apparent suicide by gunshot.

Ordinarily I would assume that Lay is dead, but the two deaths taken together are a little fishy.

[Biernuts]

56. Lay's death quite similar to James McDougal, except that he was

not in custody as McDougal was.

[wakeme2008]

19. when I hear they had an OPEN CASKET viewing

then I will believe he is dead....

I am still waiting to hear that.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

20. You'll wait a long time, because they're cremating him.

[wakeme2008]

21. The viewing is BEFORE the cremation....

at the funerals I have gone to...

[B Calm]

22. My father had a viewing for my stepmother before cremation

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

23. Maybe, but I wouldn't hold my breath for a viewing on this one.

[Pharlo]

42. If the family opts to have a viewing.

Several members of my family have had memorial services without showings (per their wishes), and cremation. It does not make them any less dead. So, while conjecture may remain over Mr Lay's death, a failure to show the body at the service is not DEFINITIVE proof he isn't dead. It just means he, or his family, didn't want a bunch of people ogling his remains.

[Bridget Burke]

49. Both of Lay's services are "Memorial Services"...

Which means "No Body."

[Mugsy]

25. I'm still waiting for the photos.

I won't believe he's really dead until I see closeup photos of him in his casket. Personally, I think his friends in the Bush Admin have helped him fake his death.

It's worth noting that here in Texas, if you die before your appeal, your record is expunged.

If Mrs. Lay should "depart this world" (either through death or disappearance) within the next year to "rejoin her husband"... I doubt they mean "in the afterife"... I think they'll mean "Cancun".

[truth2power]

27. IMO, chances are he's not dead...

If I were Lay, and I had his millions, I'd arrange my "death" and spend the rest of my days on a beach in Europe somewhere. It's a no-brainer. And with his money it would be easily arranged, relatively speaking.

Heart attack? Possible, of course. But mighty convenient, if you ask me.

[arwalden]

30. Well... Nobody Can Prove You Wrong...

... so it MUST be right, eh? :hi:

[Blue-Jay]

36. I prefer....

the FEZ!

[SpiralHawk]

31. I think this is a staged death, too, Tim

I would bet a sack of doughnuts on it.

The repulicons are famous for going AWOL when the chips are down.

I think Lay followed his Connecticut Yankee Occult Skull & Boner Plutocrat Leader, George "Deserter" Bush, and went AWOL on justice.

[AtomicKitten]

32. that was my first thought too

Considering how the BFEE disposed of *'s military records and arrest records, I don't believe this would be not doable.

[timtom]

33. Nor do I.

(believe he's dead). Not for a second.

[MindPilot]

39. Dead before the real truth could come out

just like Jack Ruby...

[donsu]

63. kick

nt

[Vidar]

40. When bushco is involve, it's better to "presume the worst".

[Tim4319]

44. No doubt!

[catmandu57]

41. It's just too damn convenient

He had the money, knew the right people, I'll always believe him to be alive somewhere.

[deutsey]

43. That's what the Bush administration thrives on...interesting conveniences

:eyes:

How many more will have to occur before people start detecting an orchestrated trend?

[Beelzebud]

45. He's cruising with Elvis in a UFO!

[Raine]

46. I think he's dead BUT

I think he was "offed" so that he wouldn't blab. ;(

[Biernuts]

57. You sound as sane as the Vince Foster conspiracy theorists

[Raine]

64. We all know this MISadministration

doesn't even stop at murder to get whatever they want, just look at Wellstone.

[Biernuts]

66. Pure bullshit - put up or shut up - Paul Wellstone would have

despised a false allegation and the individual making it.

[Raine]

67. I'm entitled to my opinion

and I don't have to justify it to you or anyone else. If you don't like it too fucking bad! :grr:

Put me on 'ignore' then you don't have be burdened with my opinion because I intend to keep stating it!

EDIT: spelling

[WI_DEM]

48. it's probably likely he wouldn't have served a day in prison anyway

with appeals and that his buddy Bush would have pardoned him in the next two years anyway just as Poppy pardoned Weinberger and others involved in Iran-Contra.

I think he's dead.

[Bridget Burke]

50. According to the Houston Chronicle....

His appeals had little chance of success. And he would have been sent to prison after sentencing, in October--none of this "out on appeal."

Why WOULD Bush pardon him? What favors did Lay have left to bestow?

[ScreamingMeemie]

51. He's deader than the grass in my back yard...

...and we just went through a long dry spell.

Too many people would have to keep quiet and that would just be too juicy for all of them to keep quiet on.

[Tim4319]

70. I don't know????

I good as this administration is at keep secrets. I believe they can pull it off.

[LibDemAlways]

52. Lay is a member of the Bush Crime Family.

The chimp's "Kenny Boy who?" act was just that, an act. One thing about crime families - they protect their own and reward loyalty.

Once it became clear that an army of lawyers couldn't keep Kenny Boy from the slammer, you can be sure that his friends in high places went to bat for him. Arranging to have a massive heart attack in a vacation home far from the eyes of the respectful press, paying off a few repuke-leaning officials, announcing that the body was cremated - how difficult would all that be to carry off? Not very. A scam artist pulling yet another scam. Sweet.

Mrs. Lay will grieve for a while before quietly slipping away to join Kenny Boy in luxurious exile.

None of this is implausible, and given the players, makes perfect sense.

[bdamomma]

59. Lay was a loyalist of Bush

he gave big time money to Bush's campaign, Bush is just returning the favor of getting him off to some deserted island, or whatever.

[Bridget Burke]

53. The Houston Chronicle has an account of the Aspen Memorial Service....

While Lay had numerous detractors, many in Aspen remained his friends and fans. (Reverend) Lawson told the gathering of almost 200 that those who are vilified in life — John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr. and even Jesus — often become heroes in death.....

The simple stone and stained-glass Aspen Chapel perched on a hillside at the edge of town was modestly decorated with two urns of sunflowers and a large color portrait of Lay....

A second private memorial service for friends and family will be held in Houston Wednesday at First United Methodist Church.

www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4035585.html

So--no coffin, open or closed. I think cremation & a corpse-free memorial service is a fine way to go. But--in this case--it does give one pause.

Lots of people in Houston are wondering....

[LibDemAlways]

61. Oh, for God's sake....That pastor compared

the crooked, thieving bastard to Kennedy, King, and Jesus? And he wasn't hit with a bolt of lightning? Now I've heard everything.

Great philanthropist, huh? Lowlife criminal scum is more like it.

What a charade. I'm sure somebody made a tape of the service for Kenny boy's amusement as he sips tropical drinks in his luxurious hideaway, paid for with taxpayer funds absconded by the Bush Crime Family.

[benevolent dictator]

68. My first thought when I heard he was dead on NPR

was, "He faked it."

[Initech]

69. First two words I heard when I found out he was dead:

Yeah. Right.

I'm sure he probably faked his death to avoid jail time. God forbid that CEOs should do the time if they did the crime. :eyes:

[LaPera]

71. And because he's "dead" his estate gets to keep the money...The

Government can't go after much of it...(any of it, if Bush has his way).

His wife will controll all of it...

SO KEEP AN EYE ON WHERE LAYS WIFE IS IN THE FUTURE, AND THAT SHOULD TELL ALL!