A bad dream, a self-fulfilling prophecy, or something else?

[kentuck]

A new poster came on the DU last night and he said he had not noticed any difference in his life since the 1990's - except that he was going to get a new car and two new computers. He was probably a "freeper", but his comment did make me ponder whether or not this is all just a bad dream or perhaps, a self-fulfilling prophecy that we have all talked ourselves into or perhaps something else? Are things as bad as they seem to us? Are other people feeling any of these same anxieties? Or are they confident looking into the future? Is it just us? Or are we the canaries for the nation? Who will tell the people?

[Whereweat]

1. Realisically- No

since the 90's my life has gtten better. I now own a house, I'm building my retirement account. I bought a fishing boat to relax and enjoy.

[jobycom]

5. You would expect to have more, because you have more job experience

The question people should ask isn't whether they have a better job and more money now than they did ten years ago--you would expect most people to progress in a career, save money, acquire more possessions as the get older. The real question would be whether people at the stage of their life now that you were in ten years ago are doing as well. And individually stories aren't evidence, you have to look at the overall trend. Are people finding jobs of the same income level or higher with the same frequency. Etc.

Also, ask yourself how someone with your experience now would have been doing ten years ago. If you had been at this stage of your life ten years ago, would you would have been doing better then? Most evidence suggests yes, you would have been. Your wages would have been higher, your expenses lower, your real tax burden lower (not based on how much you pay in taxes now, but in how much you will have to pay to cover your share of the debt--in other words, don't ask how much your monthly car payment is, ask how much the total debt you owe on that car is.).

[tinfoilinfor2005]

63. Yes, we're enjoying the fruits of our labor and many of the good

policies of conscientious people who worked for us in our government over the years. I don't think our children or their children will be so lucky, because in the not so distant future the bills will come due to them for the unconscionable spending and excess that is going on in Washington today. And on top of that, the kind of jobs that we had that provided pensions and benefits as well as insurance coverage just don't exist anymore for the average american. Throw in the oil shortages, global warming, the declining dollar and the tarnished reputation of this nation, and now you're looking at the kind of world we are going to be passing on to future generations.

But you just relax and go fishing and don't think about that too much. Nobody in D.C. seems to these days.

[me b zola]

79. Ah, a sentiment that chucklenuts would be proud of

Yeah, yuk it up. Have you ever met Dylan? I think that he has met you in your future:

Once upon a time you dressed so fine
You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you?
People'd call, say, "Beware doll, you're bound to fall"
You thought they were all kiddin' you
You used to laugh about
Everybody that was hangin' out
Now you don't talk so loud
Now you don't seem so proud
About having to be scrounging for your next meal.

How does it feel
How does it feel
To be without a home
Like a complete unknown
Like a rolling stone?

[jobycom]

2. Bush's approval rating is in the mid 30s

So not many people are feeling like things are going well. Wages are down, prices are up, the national debt is up, the deficit is through the roof, people have more debt and less buying power and less insurance and less safety both from international entities (terrorists or foreign nations) and from domestic crime. Other than that, I guess things aren't so bad. So your freeper bud may have a point. He probably hides his point under a hat, though, so no one can see it.

[ThoughtCriminal]

3. We're in big trouble

Erosion of the Constitution aside, everything - the war, the tax cuts, the pork is being paid for by borrowing. Our children, our grandchildren, and great-grandchildren will spend their lives paying for the price for the GOP's smash and grab robbery.

[Blue_In_AK]

4. On a personal level...

my life is better than it was in the '90s, but that's mainly because I am no longer with my substance abusing ex-husband and have married my long-lost high school sweetheart, who is financially responsible and contributes to, rather than sucking from, the household. That doesn't mean I feel secure about the world that my grandsons will be growing up in, however. I firmly believe the last 5-1/2 years have set the country back decades in terms of social justice and financial security for the vast majority of Americans, and the world as a whole is far more dangerous.

[uppityperson]

6. I've noticed big difference.

Buying a home is really difficult unless you have already had one. Work is more difficult to find, even for an educated trained experienced uppityperson like me. I have debt for the first time (mostly health care bills since insurance coverage has worsened). Disco is gone, thank whomever. Several young people I know are working towards CO status (in case draft starts) which wasn't happening in 90's.

So, other than problems with home, job, health, debts, safety of young people, different music (disco is GONE!), it is all about the same.

[originalpckelly]

7. At times it is difficult to know...

whether we are a bunch of nuts, or there really is some problem. Read this, because it will help you understand why things really are bad even if they don't look so bad most of the time, They Thought They Were Free:
http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html

I think that is how these awful things come about. People don't really think someone would want to hurt people. No one would really want to hurt people just because they were Jewish, but alas crime is real. There are really bad people in this world, and unfortunately they control our government.

Here is another thing that made me understand how bad it is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bybee_memo

And this about sums up our entire problem:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11488.htm
http://rwor.org/downloads/file_info/download1.php?file=yoo_on_torture.mp3
"Cassel: If the President deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no law that can stop him?
Yoo: No treaty.
Cassel: Also no law by Congress. That is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo.
Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that."

This debate actually took place, I have verified it independently of this highly questionable source. I checked with the people who held the debate, http://www.ccfr.org/

And they do indeed have a record of John Yoo debating Doug Cassel:
http://www.ccfr.org/events/pastevents.asp
Check for December 1, 2005 "GOAt presents…The Truth Can Hurt: Torture and Security in the Age of Terrorism"

This is why we have to fix these problems. Governments have killed millions of people when they get out of control (Holocaust, Cultural Revolution, Great Purge), many many more than terrorism could even begin to scratch. That is why we must do everything we can to stop our government when it becomes totalitarian. This isn't about conservatives and liberals anymore, just look at paleo-conservative magazines (the American Conservative comes to mind) they look exactly like something we would publish. We don't agree with the paleo-conservatives, but this new ideology is so foreign so un-American, it makes the differences between paleo-cons and liberals/progressives like nothing. There really is something HORRIBLE going on in our nation. The sad part is that no one knows it, and won't until it is too late to do anything to stop it.

[mcscajun]

8. My life improved greatly IN the 90s. It's gone downhill since 9/11

And precipitously downhill since 2003. I joined the ACLU in October 2001 when the huge threat of BushCo became all too clear.

I own my own home (which I bought in the Clinton years), but it's anyone's guess how long I'll keep it. I was Just getting to the point in early 2003 where my debts were a memory (except for my mortgage) and I was finally thinking about being able to do some very much needed home improvements (inside and out) buy some decent furniture, put some funds away for retirement, and maybe have one nice big trip overseas.

BOOM! Came the offshoring of my department's work to India. Over 50, overweight, female, college-educated, techically-minded, but with only a BS in Business with a Computer Management concentration, I was no longer equipped to compete in my field. So, I took the early retirement that would allow me to keep my medical coverage, decamped with my small pension to rollover into a IRA, and began downsizing my life and my expectations.

Now I work part-time in a doctor's office, I'm using my savings to pay my mortgage, and just the other day I met two of our patients, both also over 50 and female, with serious business experience and who have been victims of outsourcing: One is working as a waitress and hoping for bartender work; the other is ten months unemployed and still trying to get work in her field, or indeed, anything comparable. Neither was very hopeful.

[earth mom]

9. It's only "good" for those who don't give a damn about other people.

THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS: MOST PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE UTTERLY MISERABLE BECAUSE & AS A RESULT OF * TAKING (STEALING) OFFICE!

Here's the REALITY about the evil * has wrought:

9/11 LIHOP or MIHOP. It was intentional. Look who benefitted: * & Co.

Infants have been poisoned by mercury and * and his army of thugs have turned their back on them and the litany of health problems they now face.

Millions of people in this country go without health care every day and * doesn't give a damn.

Seniors are strapped and are working jobs at age 65+ to pay for their medication because medicare has been sliced and diced by * & Co.

The Middle Class is being methodically crushed. Jobs that pay well have been outsourced, Unions have been trashed and greedy companies get away with paying peanuts because there is a glut of labor as a result of illegal immigration which * and his elite wealthy cronies do nothing about because it benefits them.

Soldiers are over in Iraq fighting an illegal war-some without armor. They are totally dissed when they come home to find no jobs and no place to live so they end up homeless. Again * co doesn't give a damn. Just how many funerals of US soldiers did * attend anyway?! ZERO!

Methodical undermining of the US Constitution and the governement. It is happening and * is LOVIN IT!

One word: KATRINA. We all saw what * did to the victims!

I can go on and on and on like this, but I won't because the list is endless!!!

Lastly, To add insult to injury, the media is NOT reporting anything of substance that will hurt their financial bottom line. Meanwhile, selfish greedy people (like the guy in the OP), completely ignore other people's suffering because it suits them just as much as it suits * & his band of thugs.

DESPICABLE CREATURES ALL! :puke:

Meanwhile, the rest of us know the score and it ain't pretty. :grr:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

10. If you don't care that your nation is engaged in conquest and acts of

torture abroad, including arbirtrary and indefinite imprisonment without trials or charges, or that a great American city and thousands of its residents was washed away by a storm with little done, or that the government of the country is bought and sold to a greater degree than we've seen, and that the very means of removing a corrupt and incompetent government like this are being undermined or removed, then I guess things might seem fine if you have a job and some money.

[BillZBubb]

11. Things are far WORSE than they seem.

Just on the economic front:

We keep getting good GDP and unemployment numbers, but they hide the basic erosion of our economic system. GDP is growing based on borrowed money. Lot's of borrowed money. The national savings rate dropped to 0. Unfunded government liabilities have grown to 5 times GDP. Many homeowners are on the brink of foreclosure or bankruptcy.

The dollar has tumbled and interest rates must rise to prevent a collapse. Rising rates and uncontrolled energy price hikes will begin to really stifle the economy.

Real personal income is down since Bush was selected. The quality of jobs generated is down since Bush was selected. Our manufacturing base is withering. The assault on the middle class is relentless. This will not end nicely.

[Cleita]

12. On the surface, if you didn't bother caring about who's running

your country and you have a pretty secure income, things could seem to be all right. I can get up every morning to sunshine and bird twittering in the trees. I don't have to worry about a relative in the service in Iraq. My pension sources, although they aren't keeping up with inflation at least still pay for my basics and there's a good chance they won't disapppear.

I spend my days, besides on the computer, working in my garden. Things are very peaceful here. However, there is always the chance that our local nuke power plant could melt down, that we could have the big earthquake and subsequent tsunami that would wipe us out on the coast. One of Kim's missiles could be aimed for the nearby Vandenberg AFB, which means we would get the fallout.

I keep those looming possible disasters in mind. It seems like your freepers don't look further down the road than their next car or computer. The day a disaster like Katrina hits home with them and they find out that their insurance won't pay and the government leaves them twisting in the wind, or a family member gets the disease that will clean out all of their assets, once they lose their health insurance will be the wake up call, which for them will be too late and I will be able to say, "I told you so." I won't be any help to us though either because the choices they made affect all of us.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

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[Ghost in the Machine]

19. top rah man = head cheerleader??

:shrug: RAH! RAH! RAH!

[bperci108]

23. No,

....just a freeper likely to be tombstoned soon. :evilgrin:


Any bets how long it will take?

(Really....going to the pantry for new nics...how about "Van Camp" or "Aunt G. Meima"?) :rofl:



Or am I being overly suspicious? :shrug:

[top_rah_man]

28. I don't know if you're 'suspicious'...

...but if you can't talk about these things you're certainly gutless.

[bperci108]

80. Oooohhhhh......

"Gutless"?

Apparently, the gauntlet has been thrown. :)

Well.... step up, friend.

We'll discuss whatever you like, for as long as you stay anyway. :evilgrin:

[Ghost in the Machine]

29. LMAO!

I just got it... Top Ramen NOODLE! hehehehe

He sure did seem to be cheering for the GOP though, huh?

[Richard Steele]

69. Key words being 'did seem', ...

...PAST tense.

[KoKo]

16. Well....there are many folks without a sense of "History" who feel the

way this guy or gal does. I deal with them every day..and many of us have these folks in our "family."

They don't see any difference and they think their life is better if they work in any "growth" businesses like Real Estate, Services. Maybe they have parents who are funding them ...maybe they had very "low expectations" for themselves.

I think anyone who listens to the Media and CNBC would think that America is doing well...and if you are healthy and have some form of health insurance and live where you are happy and love George Bush because you think that the "Barbarians are at the Gate" waiting to take you life away..you just might like George Bush because he wasn't having some kind of "thingy" in the Oval Office that the media blew up into a SEX SCANDAL that threatened the American Way of Life.

But...yes...I think that many of us are "Canaries in Coal Mine." Or, better yet...Cassandra that NO ONE would listen to ...because her tales were to dire and gloomy for the Greeks to bear hearing.

Well...gotta keep plugging on...eventually someone will listen...down the road...way down or whatever.

[top_rah_man]

18. I think there's HUGE secondary gain...

...for you here to see things as bad as possible. As long as there's gain, you'll do it. I think people here think they can't win an election if they don't paint things as lousy. That's a self-defeating way to think--and a cheap way to try and win an election.

That's a losers game.

[KoKo]

20. Agree that Dems have tended to focus on Dire rather than Positive

"Can Do Politics." Jack Kennedy seems to be the last Positive President who could get his message across. Bill Clinton ran and won on much positivity...it wasn't as hopeful as JFK but he was of a different time. And, like JFK from the time Clinton was sworn in the Repugs went after him 24/7 but with a much more "refined" machine than went after JFK... And remember JFK was assassinated....

[bperci108]

24. Just wait.

The real losers in this game are going to be the middle-Americans, (mostly blue collar and yuppies) that make up the GOP base.

Most are in debt up to their eyeballs and have bought into the consumerism and twinkie-Christianity (or should I say "christianist") of the wealthy GOP elite and their lapdog corporate media.

Many will continue on with the "happy talk" that keeps them from noticing their head is on the block and they are no more than a useful idiot that votes reliably and predictably when the proper strings are pulled:

National Security Threatened By Brown People!

Illegal Immigration!

Godless Libruls!

Gay Marriage!

Flag Burning!

School Vouchers!

WMD's!

(Insert daily lie from LimbaughHannityO'ReillyBeckSavageWiener here...)


The Wingnut Walking Brainstems are in for a wake-up call. :(

As the sign says: If you're not outraged, you're NOT paying attention!

[top_rah_man]

26. Most Republicans aren't like that.

And it's silly mythmaking to think they are. I know NOBODY like that here in K.C. (And if there was some, they'd be here!) That's the mistake the Dem party makes. You want to see the GOP as your silly stereotype--and you miss the boat on who they really are. That's why we don't win.

[bperci108]

82. You need to get out of the 'burbs more.

Or quit listening to RW HateRadio. I live just a few hours west of you and I travel the country for a living. I've been there and I've seen it. It's a real reality check.

This whole economic house of cards is propped up with borrowed money. The spendthrifts in DC have blown every penny of the Clinton surplus and have borrowed billions more. And they have no intention of paying it back.

Consumer debt, credit card debt, second and third mortgages, government debt, etc. Borrow, borrow, borrow; spend, spend, spend.

This insanity is encouraged by the NeoCon whackjobs controlling all three branches of government.

Remember Chimpy's words after Sept. 11th? Go out and shop.

We won't even get into the fossil fuel economy that is screeching to a halt and the repercussions of that.

As for "most republicans", the majority are non-thinking sheep programmed by WingnutRadio on the daily talking points from GOP central, the rest are either single-issue voters who will respond like Pavlov's Dopes whenever the proper bell is rung or Foaming True Believers who are on a holy crusade to "Take Back 'Murika" from the ImmigrantsHomosLibrulsCommunistsForeignersSecularhumanistsHottentots, etc.

A common thread is seemingly boundless narcissism.

I haven't encountered a thinking republican who stayed a republican in a long, long, LONG time.

Including me. ;) I used to be one of you. (Let's not pretend who we are, okay?)

As for "winning"; one man with the Truth is a majority. The tide is turning a little at a time, one convert at a time, one enlightened former republican at a time.

You don't start a revolution in the cities; you start out in the sticks. By the time the cities, and the powers that be that inhabit them hear the rumble of distant thunder, it's the sound of millions of marching feet.

And all of the corporate money, slick propaganda posing as news, and stooge politicians cannot change that. :evilgrin:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

43. So if "you here" = DUers, then what does that make you? The "brother from

another party?" Here to deliver messages of political wisdom from a planet far from this one?

What DOES bring you here anyway?

[ninkasi]

17. Kentuck...

My life is more or less the same, but that's because I'm retired. For my family, for friends, and for countless others who are nameless, life is much, much worse. When Bush's power grab started, I consulted the most intelligent person I know, my first cousin. He has a PhD, merits several pages in google, and is co-chair of his department at the university he is affiliated with. He is an expert in several fields of sociology, and has written, co-authored, or edited a number of college texts.

He says that our only hope is for Bush to overreach so much that there will be a massive backlash of citizens, against his policies. He has been alarmed for some time now. He has e-mailed me several articles about Bush, but I had already seen them, thanks to DU. If we are in the grip of a nightmare, he is there with us. Trust me on this, the man is brilliant. Of course, it's hard for me to absorb that, since we grew up together, but I've been a member of DU since 2001, so take it for what it's worth. My cousin and I are both in our sixties, so have seen a good deal of life.

I can not go through life being satisfied with only what touches me. I hurt for the others, the ones who are affected. I mourn for a country who did nothing to us, but which is being destroyed. I feel the hurt, and agony, of people who have watched their retirements vanish in an orgy of conservative gluttony. That I am an American citizen through the accident of birth, not merit, gives me no claim to superiority. We are all human, and anybody who grinds my fellow humans into the dirt in order to reap riches for themselves is evil, and inhuman to me.

I live north of Houston, and my husband and I decided not to attempt evacuation when Rita was approaching. I was still shocked at the deliberate abandonment of New Orleans. I don't know anybody from there, but I watched t.v., and cried, seeing the plight of the people there. Their race, their economic status, none of that mattered. What mattered was seeing my fellow citizens, my fellow human beings, left to die by a government who did not care. What divides us now is this...Republicans are greedy, and will overlook any crime to make a buck or impose their morals...Democrats want to elevate the status of the poor, the vulnerable, and the rest of the world. I agree with Mark Morford who says Bush is dead to him, and explains why. His column can be read at http://www.sfgate.com/columnists/morford/

[kentuck]

22. Our loss has not been as much monetarily as in freedom and spirit...

Anybody that can sit back and smile like a fat Cheshire cat after what our nation and our people have gone thru since before 9/11 is out of touch with a very important reality. They are OK with red and yellow alerts. They are OK with anthrax attacks. They are OK with NSA spying on tens of millions of Americans. It's all in the "war" effort. Where would the war effort be if we had not invaded Iraq? My hunch is that Osama may have been captured and we would be looking far and wide for a "terrorist".

And anyone that is not concerned about the trillions of dollars spent on credit since these folks came into power must have their heads in the sand. Albeit, many of them have shown concern for the "illegal immigration" coming across our borders. But they do nothing about it. And they lie. Boy, do they lie! They break laws - or sign statements saying it doesn't apply to them. As if they are a "king" or royalty - not subject to the same laws as the rest of us?

And the incompetence. Not just Hurricane Katrina but losing millions of records of veterans. And giving away our hard-earned wealth to the very top. And nothing has changed?? Throw some cold water in your face.

[KoKo]

67. I read poster "ninkasi" as agreeing with you, Kentuck..

and saying that even though she was retired and her personal life hadn't changed that everyone around her's had changed for the worse. :shrug:

[ninkasi]

75. You are right, KoKo01

I agree with everything Kentuck said. I know people who joke, a little self-consciously, about certain conversations on the phone...like well, we'd better not say too much, because someone is listening. I have people who e-mail me, and do so in what amounts to a code, careful not to say anything that could be used should Bush declare a national emergency, and impose martial law.

The reason I mentioned the economic impact, is that it would be easier for a real dictator to gain control of a country if the majority of citizens are distracted by earning a living just to survive. People who have to work two jobs just to exist are not people who have a great deal of time, or energy, to keep up with politics.

You are right when you said that even though my life is more or less the same, I have seen the impact of what the neocon's power grab has been to people overall. I don't mean to sound selfish, although it may come across that way, but I am unable to enjoy being retired, because I am sick at heart about what's happening to our country, and worry about what people much younger than me are facing.

As a very liberal...and proud of it...Democrat, I care about my fellow citizens, and the rest of the world. How can I enjoy what I have, which is very modest indeed, but more than most people in the world have, if so many other people are suffering? That suffering includes loss of liberty, and fear of government.

[KoKo]

68. ninkasi , it does seem we have to wait for the massive

backlash when all the Bushies have done finally causes folks to wake up and get angry enough to make some changes. Right now the folks I know who are "lazy Dems" seem to say "well what can we do...we didn't vote for him." When I try to get into the voting machines their eyes glaze over and they shrug and say "well what are we supposed to do about that?"

It's only when folks start to see the policies touch them collectively that they will start to search for some way to change it. Until that happens we here in the "Underground" have to keep fighting for voting reform, and signing those petitions and doing what we can locally to hold some ground until we have fresh troops on the way...or get some change in Congress.

[kentuck]

72. ninkasi, I apologize..

I was not directing my remarks towards you. I misplaced my post. I share your feelings and appreciate your great post.

[ninkasi]

77. Ah, Kentuck

I've been on DU long enough to know that. I didn't take your response as anything negative. We share our beliefs, and for you, as so many others here, a friendship whether we ever meet in person or not. :grouphug: :grouphug: That's for you, and Koko01, and all of the other great DUers who make this place my cyber home.

[undeterred]

21. My life has been much harder during the Bush years

I hoped to buy a home, achieve some stability in my career, do some traveling. I am even further from those things than I was 6 years ago. I was laid off from a good job with benefits in 2001 and to this day I have only had contract work with gaps in between. I have had health insurance some of the time but not most of the time. Not only have I not bought a house, I haven't bought a single piece of new furniture because I am still paying down debts. My goal is no longer security, but just living from day to day. I think that millions of people are going through the same things, some are worse off, some had farther to fall than I did.

I think we are going in the wrong direction and it will take a real change in this country's leadership to put it back on course.

[kentuck]

25. My employment has been erratic in the last 5 years...

I have had 5 different jobs and none pay as well as the job that left me...and I'm not getting any younger.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kentuck]

34. It would have to be "mismanagement" ?

Maybe some folks are not so lucky as you? Everybody does not have the same fortune or luck to play with. Maybe some folks have had some very serious medical problems?

[top_rah_man]

42. We've certainly had those, too.

[undeterred]

57. eat shit and die

[leftofthedial]

27. I know no one who is better off now than they were 6 years ago

except a couple of assholes in the oil business

and a couple of other more conventional criminals

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kentuck]

32. Is it fair to say you are very confident about the future?

And whatever has happened, 9/11 included, is all just part of "normal" politics? You see nothing, absolutely nothing that anyone should be concerned about?? is that right?

[top_rah_man]

35. I don't like to think of......

No. Korea or Iran having nukes and threatening us. But there's not much I can do about that.

[kentuck]

37. What do you think we should do about it?

Should we "nuke" them?

[top_rah_man]

40. That sure wouldn't be my first thought.

I don't think that'll get us anywhere.

[leftofthedial]

36. it's about two-thirds republicans

nobody thinks the way I do

go preach somewhere else

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftofthedial]

48. enjoy your steak

handle what?

[top_rah_man]

33. Kerry, Kennedy, Dean the Clintons, Gore...

...Pelosi, Boxer etc. all seem like they are doing fine.

[leftofthedial]

38. not nearly as well as Rummie, king george, unka dick

or any of the rest of their gang

[kentuck]

41. Top_rah_man sounds like he did real well...must have voted Bush??

A man of his vision and fortune would never vote for a Democrat. Is that right top_rah_man? :)

[top_rah_man]

45. No, I'm just not gonna play 'Ain't It Awful'...

...and so things AREN'T awful. Simple.

[kentuck]

46. Is your last name Limbaugh?

Because you sound a lot like him??

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

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[kentuck]

49. Don't choke on it like your main man did with the pretzel...

You deserve better.

[UncleSepp]

62. Hi, I'm a lot better off now than six years ago

I'm not in the oil business, not a criminal, and not conventional. Whether I'm an asshole or not, well... one's always the last to know.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't really go all that far. Personally, I'm doing better in terms of personal finance and personal freedom, but I know I'm just one person. I'm not going to take my life as the pattern of the times, nor the lives of the people I know.

[leftofthedial]

64. good for you

some industries and some regions are doing better than others

unemployment is not 100% yet.

I'm a working musician and among my fans, colleagues, neighbors and friends, I know wealthy people (not super-wealthy, but multi-millionaires), professionals, middle class people, working class people, poor people . . .

In all seriousness, only a handful are better off financially than they were 5 or 6 years ago. Even the wealthy have taken a hit. The exceptions are the two people in the oil business (ex-spouse of a close friend and a former co-worker who still "loves" me--both are conscienceless freepers whose company I avoid when I can), the pimp and the drug dealer. I have a very close friend (best friend's spouse) who owns a small business in the building trade. Business for her was insanely good until about 2 years ago. Now it is in the toilet.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Neshanic]

50. Sadly, the worst is yet to come. The end of sick conservatism

in it's final years is going to take a whole crowd down. This fall we will see the combination of insane oil prices and the tanking housing market. Ice that cake with the republicans that will openly eat their own, and one media conglomerate that will turn on it's master, because not all can be "Fox".

We are the knowledgeable "canaries". It is the hallmark of conservatism to ignore all facts, truths, and common sense, and always look to the answers in the glorified past. Liberals, have always believed in the future, conservatives just serve up the same old shit on a plate, to the clueless, and the imbeciles. The older conservatives just see it has the same old thing, different tune, and willingly comply to keep their place in the society line labeled "MINE!"

The person mentioned will see a difference, a bad one economically very soon, coming to a job he has now.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Neshanic]

53. Of course, Will your kids be the next imbeciles, or call you a moron?

edited for Vista Beta keyboard issues

[Neshanic]

54. Of course, Will your kids be the next imbeciles, or call you a moron?

[kentuck]

52. Dishonesty - the trademark.

They cannot be honest. They are afraid to say who they voted for. They are afraid to be honest. They sneak in the back door under false pretenses, just like their leader and their Party. They are despicable people.

[union_maid]

55. Interesting question

It must be going around. I've been wondering something similar. Not whether things are as bad as they seem. Iraq really is a mess, Bush really has destabilized a good part of the world, income disparity is really rising here and in other free market countries. The environment really has been neglected. All that is true. It might all be more fixable than it appears and humans do make adjustments to circumstances remarkably well when given half a chance.

What I've been thinking about is how most people are going about their business and paying minimal attention to all this and they are no worse off than I am and they're feeling a lot better. I think it's very hard to find a balance between caring about what's happening, looking at the worst case scenarios and keeping your mental health.

[kentuck]

56. I think some folks are in denial...

unless they are in the top 1%... .

[kohodog]

58. I doubt that "Noodle" is in the top 1%

Just another koolaid drinker with expectations that he/she is on the way and will be there soon.

Pay no attention.

[bperci108]

83. The world is full of them.

They haven't clued into the fact that:

"The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people and the few, who make up the employing class, have all the good things of life..."

They still labor under the delusion that if they just work hard enough, play by the rules, and keep their nose clean, they will become one of the Chosen Few. :eyes:

The bought-and-paid-for elite Media Manure Spreaders of the public airwaves like Limbaugh, Boortz and the pestilent bunch at Faux Nooze reinforce the big lie daily.

[Deja Q]

59. I'm in fear for my job every single day, the media's vulgarity is worse,

stress has eaten at my health, and I'm single. The media making stereotypes and false images the "norm" hasn't helped either. And people love their TV.

Gotta work through it. There's no other way.

[koopie57]

73. That is the way I feel too

the stress is unbearable. I know people who have lost homes cuz of a car accident, or health issue .. or the victims of enron ... and millions loosing their pensions cuz of greedy pigs. I live for each day and breath a sign of relief at the end of it when I still have a roof over my head and my kids are safe. My stomach hurts all the time.

All these talking smart here like they haven't a care in the world, they are a moment away from understanding what we already know.

[RagAss]

60. He was a Freeper...end of discussion......

[RagAss]

61. He was a Freeper...end of discussion......

[kentuck]

65. I have a hunch they may have just tombstoned Limbaugh...

:) I don't recall if he said he was going to have a cigar with his steak and crab legs by the pool...

[Neshanic]

66. A Viagra chaser, a pair of crab legs and Pig Boy. Not Pretty.

[globalvillage]

70. RIP, noodles.

[porphyrian]

71. The number of people who are worse off far outweight those...

...who are better off. It is simply a characeristic of our society that we are largely segregated by class. It is very simple for rich people to look out their windows and see only other rich people. They pay for this privelege quite intentionally. Only the extremely isolated or remarkably stupid in their ranks could believe that most Americans are better off, and it is by design that both of these breeds exist today.

[kentuck]

74. Just from the bankruptcy bill alone..

would be my guess.

[porphyrian]

76. A perfect example.

Who really benefits from making it more difficult for the average citizen to declare bankrupcy? At the same time that jobs are being outsourced by the thousands, health care prices are through the roof and less likely to be provided affordably at the workplace, college degrees mean less and less towards commanding a salary commensurate with the cost of tuition and student loans are unavoidable short of death? Now, the rights of credit card corporations, who can still declare bankrupcy with relative ease, trump the rights of real people. It makes me want to smash heads.

[buzzard]

78. In my personal life monetary means and possessions have increased

but at the same time I have never felt worse about man and mans inhumanity to man. I live in an old and now wealthy neighborhood and many of the original homes have been knocked down to make way for elaborate new homes, this has had the effect of causing taxes to escalate and many of our older neighbors on fixed incomes can no longer afford to live here. I find that I constantly dwell on the huge disparity between people and wish that some had less and others more and then I think that that is always the way it has been except now it seems the middle class of many developed countries are now being slowly squeezed. I wonder sometimes why some people who have so much are never satisfied and yet people with so little never seem to complain. But all in all I feel much worse and wonder sometimes if it has something to do with the material I read here on DU. BTW I love this forum and find many interesting and thoughtful comments by the people here.

[KoKo]

81. Sometimes I think we can "know too much."

And there are days I wish I hadn't spent so much time learning about some of the policies that I was oblivious to before "Selection 2000."

But when one has been around awhile it's hard to ignore what we see going on now and when one traces many of the origins back to Nixon (where some of those running the Govt. got their start)...it's a progression that we have to face of crime and corruption in Government and our Corporate world that's gone wild.

The Deficit alone is enough to make me fearful of any future...and what Bush is stirring up all over the world is frightening. But, one wouldn't necessarily know that unless one had lived through stuff since Nixon.