Rudy for president?

[BrentWill4U]

I don't know if GOP voters will take him in their primary, but if they do, he will win the general.

http://townhall.com/Columnists/RobertDNovak/2006/07/08/rudy_for_president

Rudy for president?
By Robert D. Novak
Saturday, July 8, 2006
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Well-connected public figures report that they have been told recently by Rudolph Giuliani that, as of now, he intends to run for the Republican presidential nomination in 2008.

The former mayor of New York was on top of last month's national Gallup poll measuring presidential preferences by registered Republicans, with 29 percent. Sen. John McCain's 24 percent was second, with former House Speaker Newt Gingrich third at 8 percent. National polls all year have shown Giuliani running either first or second to McCain, with the rest of the presidential possibilities far behind.

Republican insiders respond to these numbers by saying rank-and-file GOP voters will abandon Giuliani once they realize his position on abortion, gay rights and gun control. Party strategists calculate that if he actually runs, he must change on at least one of these issues.

[hfojvt]

1. he could not beat Hillary for New York senator

and he could not beat her in the general election. Clinton, after all, is a southerner and could carry many Southern states over a former mayor of NEW YORK CITY??? "That really chaps my hide."

[BrentWill4U]

3. He didn't run ageist her.. remember the whole cancer thing?

He is MUCH more popular then Clinton. You and I might not LIKE that fact, but it is true.

[blm]

18. He didn't run because of his ADULTERY THING making the news.

If you thought it was because of cancer, then I have a bridge......

[hfojvt]

27. he also did not run against her

because he knew he would get his a$$ kicked.

Is he more popular than Hillary? What do the book sales say?

[calico1]

4. He did not run against Hillary. n/t

[still_one]

17. unfortunately I do not agree with you

He is the media darling, while Clinton symbolizes everything bad according to the MSM. You cannot overcome that bias in a general election

The only change the Democrats have against "rudy" is to campaign tough and hard. Show that he screwed up because adequate communication was not available during 9/11, and YES, Democrats will have a problem winning unless they take a stand AGAINST THE OCCUPATION OF IRAQ. Gulliani believes we should stay the cours

In addition, the way he treated wife before he divorced her was a disgrace, AND THAT SHOULD BE AN ISSUE ALSO. He treated her like shit

[Clark2008]

38. Bill or Hillary?

Um.. Bill... OK.

But, Hillary is NOT a Southerner (she's from Chicago) and NO ONE in the South considers her Southern, despite her years as a Southern First Lady.

Sorry - no dice there. Guiliani has a better in with Southerners because of the perception of his toughness on 9/11 and the perception that Republicans are better at national security and foreign policy, which, given that so many in the South and mid-West have served in the military, is a strong point.

Really - I live down here and NO ONE I know, including me, honestly thinks that Hillary is a Southerner. Come on! :eyes:

[NJ Democrats]

2. He won't win the Puke Primaries

He will do well in the Northeast but will suck in the south and west.

[BrentWill4U]

5. I think that is where he will have his problem also..

But, you never know. IF the Dems do very well in 06, the GOP establishment might be willing to throw their support behind him in order to keep the White House.

[NJ Democrats]

14. I don't think so

If they go in that direction they will support McCain, as many Americans believe he is a Marverick and moderate.

[G2099]

6. GOD forbid

Enuf said, on that subject.

[Mz Pip]

7. Rudy would never

get through the primaries. With his women issues and being pro choice, the fundy base would never cast a vote for him.

There are 'registered' Republicans and the ones who control thr party, the behind the scenes right wingers who would lose their lunch at the thought of a Guiliani Presidency.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[calico1]

8. Yes, but he could sell his opinions to get the

nomination. Bush Sr. was also pro choice at one time. You never know. I think it depends on who the others seeking the nomination are and whether or not the GOP wants to continue one the Neocon and religious track, or whether they decide to go more Moderate.

[Mz Pip]

20. He could

but whatever Rovian smear campaign managaer the oppostion came up with would just portray him as an opportunistic flip flopper (which would be accurate).

Still I would perfer Guiliani to Allen, Frist, Brownback or Tancredo any day.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[natrat]

9. take that rudy shit and shove it up the gop's ass nt

[halobeam]

12. ewww and true. LOL...

besides, isn't that where he originally came from?

[SensibleAmerican]

10. The only two people who can beat Hillary

McCain and Giuliani, with Giuliani being the tougher candidate. Yikes, New York will become a battleground state if its Clinton v. Giuliani.

[BrentWill4U]

11. I don't think that...

The dems can win if NY goes for the GOP... I just don't see how it would be possible.

[calico1]

13. Giuliani was not very popular before 9/11.

His approval rating was very low. And because of some of the stunts he has pulled since 9/11 with making fun of Kerry and all, I don't think he will win NYS. Remember NYC voted 85% for Kerry. He won't win the city and you have to carry NYC to carry the state. Hillary would win there.

[BrentWill4U]

15. He won reelection..

BEFORE 9/11, didn't he? I think that speaks rather loudly. Moreover, he DID do alot to help NYC. NYC was in rather bad shape during large parts of the 80s and 70s.

[calico1]

16. He was near the end of his term when

9/11 happened. Before 9/11 his approval rating was going downhill. As for helping NYC he waged a war against homeless people and against street vendors who had been there for years, among other things. He had pissed a lot of them off.

[BrentWill4U]

19. Really?

It would seem the voters of NY disagreed in 1997 when they reelected him. I am not saying he is a wonderful guy or that he would be a good President. I am saying that to deny that he is popular is to practice self delusion.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/e/election_results/index.html?query=DINKINS,%20DAVID%20N&field=per&match=exact

"Rudolph Giuliani becomes second Republican in 60 years to be elected to second term as New York City mayor, defeating Ruth Messinger, quintessential liberal and fixture of Manhattan's Upper West Side; photos; vote is 56 percent to 42 percent, giving Giuliani 14 percent margin with 97 percent of precincts reporting, in city that is five-to-one Democratic; turnout is about 38 percent; Giuliani's victory statement apologizes to New Yorkers who have felt left out and promises to do better job of serving everyone; Messinger gives speech prepared hours before in anticipation of defeat, standing with stalwarts and repeating references to problem schools and unemployment; voters point to improved quality of life, delivery of services, safety and prosperity; Giuliani wins one in five black votes, about four times better than he did in 1993 against David Dinkins"

[calico1]

24. I am saying that at the END

of his term he was not very popular and his approval ratings were down. I am not referring to his reelection. And no I am not practicing "self-delusion", whatever you mean by that. Living in CT I get a lot of the news from New York. I couldn't care less how popular he was or wasn't. But it isn't accurate to equate his surge in popularity after 9/11 to how popular he was during his last term in office or try to depcit him as wildly popular toward the end of his term. He wasn't. And I was referring to his popularity in NEW YORK CITY, not the entire country.

[BrentWill4U]

30. Okay, two years later..

In 1999:

http://www.maristpoll.marist.edu/nycpolls/991013MY.html

Mayor Rudolph Giuliani’s approval rating is 53% among the city’s registered voters. 21% of the electorate rates the job he is doing as excellent, 32% as good, 28% as fair, and 18% as poor. 1% are unsure. In a previous poll conducted in March, 50% approved of the job Mayor Giuliani was doing.

And in 2000:

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x11370.xml?ReleaseID=631

Mayor Rudolph Giuliani's approval rating has bounced back to 49 - 45 percent among New York City voters, his highest level in more than 18 months and a 24-point turnaround since April, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.

[SensibleAmerican]

42. You don't have to win NYC to win NYS and Giuliani could win NYC

Ask Pataki, D'Amato, or Reagan (if he were alive) whether you have to win NYC to win NYS. Simply put, they all lost NYC. In fact, the last Republican to win NYC was Calvin Coolidge.

Secondly, Giuliani is still popular in NYC, though not as popular as Bloomberg or Clinton. It appears while Giuliani is probably approved for what he did over 9/11 and with crime, his conservatism still doesn't jive in New York City. I would expect, however, over time (say 10 to 15 years) New York voters will approve of Giuliani's job more, similar to how Reagan's impression with the United States improved after 1996. This has nothing to do with whether or not his policies were right, but what results did they produce.

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=57631

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x11372.xml

[tyedyeto]

26. You say that like Hillary is a shoe-in...

I for one do not think will get the nomination.

[Clark2008]

39. A lot of people - any Republican - can beat Hillary in a

general election.

She won't flip one red state and may even lose two - possibly Michigan and Pennsylvania.

Really - reconsider that statement.

She's dead weight.

And, I'm female and would like to see a female president - but it won't be her.

[SensibleAmerican]

43. Here's a list of Republican candidates who can't beat her

Bill Frist
Newt Gingrich
George Allen
Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney
Condoleeza Rice (race will be a toss-up)

The polls seem to disagree about Clinton's strength.

[BringEmOn]

21. Why is a Repuke being pimped on DU?

[BillZBubb]

23. Good question. Giuliani is a turd.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

25. See "townhall.com" source of article. Draw conclusions.

[globalvillage]

29. Not just townhall, Novak!

What a massive tool.

[BrentWill4U]

32. Novak is a Republican, true..

But why would he care one way or the other? He is much more Conservative then Rudy.

[calico1]

31. Bloomberg is also being pimped on

another thread. Hmmmmm.....

[Idioteque]

44. Bloomberg is not Giuliani

Bloomberg is a liberal Republican who supports gay marriage and who has been a very good mayor.

Giuliani is a Bushbot and a major league neocon asshole.

[calico1]

45. Correct, (for the most part) but....

This board is supposed to be for the purpose supporting Democratic candidates, not Republicans.

[BrentWill4U]

47. Who is supporting Giuliani..

This is a thread about him running not supporting him. Most people on the thread are commenting on his chances of getting out of the primary and how dangerous he would be if he did.

[BillZBubb]

22. Giuliani will be easy to beat.

I hope the Repugs nominate him.

Right now he's coasting on the phony 9/11 "hero" myth. Once the rocks start getting turned over and Giuliani's real nature is exposed, he'll tank.

[globalvillage]

28. I don't think so.

He's said some pretty stupid things, not to mention his 'family values' issues.

Youth and black voters might be reminded of this:

When a 16-year-old black teenager was shot and wounded by police as he was walking home from the city's "midnight basketball" games (a program designed to keep kids out of trouble), Giuliani's public response was that the boy "should have been home at that hour".
http://www.nndb.com/people/587/000024515/

This won't play with the fundies:

Giuliani's first marriage was to his second cousin, Regina Peruggi. They were married for 14 years, before Giuliani had their marriage annulled by the Catholic church. His second marriage was to Donna Hanover, a reporter and sometimes soap-opera actress. Havover was the city's First Lady while Giuliani was mayor, but she stayed farther and farther out of the public spotlight as Giuliani was widely whispered to be swiving his press secretary, Cristyne Lategano. After Lategano left City Hall, Giuliani took up with a divorced nurse, Judith Nathan. Never one for subtlety, Giuliani and Nathan marched side-by-side in the St. Patrick's Day parade, where the city's mayor traditionally walks with his wife.

http://www.nndb.com/people/587/000024515/

This should do it for just about everyone else, and is why I consider him, after McCain, one of the most disingenuous people in politics. Worse than the McCain hug or the Leiberman kiss, IMO:

"At the time, we believed that we would be attacked many more times that day and in the days that followed. Without really thinking, based on just emotion, spontaneous, I grabbed the arm of then-Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik, and I said to him, "Bernie, thank God George Bush is our president."

I say it again tonight. I say it again tonight:

Thank God that George Bush is our president, and thank God that Dick Cheney, a man with his experience and his knowledge and his strength and his background, is our vice president."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/30/giuliani.transcript/

[vixengrl]

33. Can't say I know that he'd win the primary--that's the trick.

Per the column:

Republican insiders respond to these numbers by saying rank-and-file GOP voters will abandon Giuliani once they realize his position on abortion, gay rights and gun control. Party strategists calculate that if he actually runs, he must change on at least one of these issues.

This sets him up for trouble against any less moderate, more socially conservative candidate he runs against, and also there's the question of name recognition vs. national-level experience. Also, social issues differing from the rest of his party means the long run could be chock full of wedge issues (Why must election-time always be silly season?) I like McCain against him, ultimately, unless Jeb Bush puts his toe in.

What's good for us is an ugly contest in the primaries for the Republicans. I think Guiliani could bring that. It'll weaken whoever does get the nod, and that plus inheriting the Bush record is going to suck for them. Here's hoping being sick of the War on Terra, the War on Civil Liberties, the bad environmental record of damn near the whole party, and anything else we can throw in there (I would cry "Scandal!" in a crowded theatre. Yes I would) is enough to put it away.

Of course I could be wrong, but I'm a hopeful character.

(Edit for HTML- forgot where I was :))

[BrentWill4U]

46. I highly doubt he would..

The only way it happens, is if we do really well in 06'. Then the GOP establishment will get worried and look for ways to keep the white house.

[oasis]

34. Bernard Kerik would be Rudy's Attorney General.eom

[WinkyDink]

35. Yeah---President of his own inflated ego. Let's ask his first wife

about his character.
An Italian from New York City? Yeah, THAT will go over well in the Red States! NOT!

And he won't be anybody's "darling" in 2008. He's creepy and has a speech impediment that people will NOT want to listen to from the Oval office.

[BrentWill4U]

36. The south will remain Republican, whoever they put up..

But the Northeast could go Republican if they put up Rudy.. which is why he Is dangerous.

[Clark2008]

41. Not true.

Arkansas, Tennessee and Virginia could flip blue if a Wesley Clark or a Mark Warner (gag - I don't like him, but I can see the strengths) were to be nominated by the Democratic Party.

[DemGirl7]

37. Hell will freeze over before the GOP would have Giuliani as their nominee

The GOP is currently controlled the the nutcase ultra conservative wing of the party, and they see Giuliani as being "too liberal" for their taste. Yeah the mainstream moderate GOP flock may like him, but not ultra conservatives such as Falwell, They have already stated that they don't like him, and they have become a core part of the GOP since the early 1980's.

[SmokingJacket]

40. I think you're probably right --

he's a loose cannon, too.

As a New Yorker, I can't stand the guy... but I can't stand ANY Republican, period.