Hero Former Treasury Sec. Paul O'Neill bites the Dust on CNBC this a.m.

[KoKo]

He was on CNBC this a.m. for the full hour and I think either Grover Norquist has gotten to him or folks like me thought he was something he wasn't when he wrote that book criticizing Bush after he resigned as Treasury Secretary. He was very disappointing.

Some of O'Neill's views as expressed on CNBC:

1)Medicare and Social Security are Broken and are nothing but a giant Pyramid Scheme, anyway. We need to move them both into Savings and Investment accounts.

2) We need a "progressive Consumption Tax" because our tax code is so complicated no one can understand it. (Sounds like Steve Forbes plan to me..:eyes:)

3) GM is not suffering because it's Health Care Costs are too high but because it's assembly line workers are making $135,000 a year...which is much higher than their "imported competitors." He said he's on GM Board and they wouldn't listen to him about workers being overcompensated.

3) DNC Chair Terry MacAuliff forced him to sell his Stock Options in Alcoa when the became Treasury Secretary and he lost $250. mil because of that.

The only thing he said critical of Bush (which most of us would agree with) was that the Bushies work at "Managing Expectations" rather than "Setting Policy" and that with the Economy this strong we should be running surpluses instead of Deficits. That the numbers for the Deficit are probably not accurate so their projections that it's being reduced are probably not accurate either. He said we should be running a surplus (even though we are at War) to have available for when times get bad which cyclically we know will come.

He was asked if "Supply Side Economics" were working with the Tax Cuts and he kind of flubbed that one and the CNBC Chattering Heads didn't follow up.

[Roland99]

1. $135,000/yr for assembly line workers? Which plants?

[Libby2]

10. Damn, good gig if you can get it.

Such a lie....I don't know where the hell they get these figures.

My husband made at most 60,000 with much overtime, and he was a skilled trades.

[INdemo]

11. At 60 hours per week average @52 wks. doesn't come up to

$135,000 per year..He is still a republican..Whats hurting GM is not the healthcare,not the wages...they failed to stay competitive with their product period.......Ford is in the same boat..Japanese auto makers have the edge in engineering and product research wages just seem to be a very good out for them

[Roland99]

12. It would have to be about $40/hr with almost 20hrs/wk at time and a half

to get to that point.

[INdemo]

15. Correct

Skilled trades don't make that much.....H was just puffing smoke and trying to shift the blame to the union, (as far as public opinion)
and shift the problem away from extremely bad management.

[Bandit]

22. Health care is indeed hurting them along with most business

While I agree they are not competing well they are still hamstrung by the enormous burdon of health care insurance. Their competition is not.

[Orangepeel]

27. I believe you are right. But don't foreign plants in the US have benefits?

I know they (or at least most) aren't unionized, but don't the Lexus plant in Alabama and the Toyota plant in Kentucky (for example) offer their employees health care?

[OzarkDem]

14. WTF? What has he been smoking?

That's a real disappointment, he seemed much smarter than that.

[Orangepeel]

26. he might have been talking about cost, not salary

So the amount would include salary, health insurance costs, pension contributions, training, etc.

I don't know if that would add up to $135,000 a year or not (and I think that if the company agreed to pay it, they should pay it), but it might explain the amount.

[Roland99]

28. Well, he said it wasn't healthcare costs.

Pensions I could buy. And I wouldn't be surprised to see some pension funds of big corporations start to go under.

[Kagemusha]

2. Just because he disagreed with Bush once does not make him liberal

I know more than a few things about supply side economics in detail and it's little more than a cheap political excuse for policies they'd support regardless of the theories, btw. Not that liberals are incapable of such behavior but, supply side economics, as practiced in the political system, is a lot of garbage.

[whistle]

3. Paul O'Neill has a neo-con kool aid IV permanently hooked in his jugular

...vein and the antidote IV straight into his heart. If he says anything out of line with the Bush administration official sound bites, he is DOA.

[Norquist Nemesis]

4. Sounds like they piped Limbaugh into his room

and forced him to atttend Grover's weekly crapfest.

Seriously, why do they keep spouting that $135,000 figure? Saying a "line worker" makes the equivalent of $65 per hour defies logic. But enough people hear these type of things said over and over again on hate-radio, so Hey! Must be true! :eyes:

And how Terry McAuliffe has the power to "force" him to sell his stock options... WOW! Who knew?!

[wakeme2008]

5. This is crazy

2) We need a "progressive Consumption Tax"

How the hell do you have a progressive Sales Tax!!!!!!

[warrens]

6. A consumption tax is not inherently a bad idea

As long as it is REALLY progressive. And that's where Forbes et al are lying. You pretty much have to make all income up to about $35,000 tax free to make it fair to the middle class. Of course, they're talking about $18,000, which would throw most of the burden on the lower-middle and middle classes. Forbes was even saying $12,000 for a family of four would be the cutoff at one point until someone did the math and called him a greedy plutocrat, which he is.

[lumberjack_jeff]

23. Yes it is.

http://www.brook.edu/views/papers/gale/20040812.htm

The Brookings institute estimates that it'd take a 100% sales-tax rate to equal the revenue today, including the tax on such luxuries as health care and food.

Perhaps you don't have an appreciation for what a de-facto one-year 100% inflation on everything would cause, nor a feel for the intrusive regulatory machinery that would be required to prevent the inevitable underground economy.

[Pirate Smile]

7. I heard him say that Bush's social security plan was a joke (paraphrasing)

It didn't actually solve the problem, he said.

I just caught the very end of the interview.

[KoKo]

16. The chattering heads didn't give him time to expand but when he

said that SS and Medicare were nothing but a Pyramid Scheme and it was time for change by allowing people to invest...but he didn't get to finish what they would invest in although my impression was that it would be the Stock Market in some form.

[Epiphany4z]

8. wow I don't know

any assembly workers making 100 grand...

[susu369]

9. Let's go down memory lane

O'Neill has always been a loose cannon but he has never been hero material in my books.

Aluminum sliding
Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill promised to dump his Alcoa stock in March. He still hasn't -- and might have bagged $62 million as a result.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Jake Tapper

June 7, 2001 | WASHINGTON -- More than two months ago, Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill agreed to sell $100 million in stock in Alcoa, the aluminum company he used to run, announcing on ABC's "This Week" that he had told his staff, "Let's get this off the table" in order to avoid any appearance of a conflict of interest.

For now, though, O'Neill's stocks are still very much on the table. He has not fully divested and refuses to say just how much stock he has left in his former company. But he almost surely has earned millions off the stock as its price has soared in recent months -- in part because of initiatives by the federal government.

By delaying his sale of the stock, O'Neill could have reaped a $62 million windfall.

--snip--

Early in this administration, O'Neill proved a lightning rod for Bush critics. Just last month, an interview he gave to the Financial Times created headlines after he called for the elimination of all taxes on corporations (suggesting they be replaced by increased taxes on individuals), and by announcing that he hopes to eliminate the subsidizing of Social Security and Medicare.

FULL ARTICLE (interesting read):
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/06/07/oneill/print.html

[devilgrrl]

13. You got this thing with DU "heroes" don't you?

Who are these "heroes" that you speak of and what makes you think that people here view them as "heroes"?

Get off your high horse and quit making sweeping statements.

[KoKo]

17. It's been a bad week for my Dem Hero's (Those who have defied Bush)

in "some" way are my and many DU'ers heros. Paul Hackett was a surprise to me in his comments on Hardball and I thought Paul O'Neill differed with the Bushies much more than he seemed to in his appearance on CNBC. :shrug: Maybe other DU'ers are more savvy and saw it with these two all along.

[devilgrrl]

18. Fair enough...

thank you for clarifying that. :-)

[ProfessorGAC]

19. First Of All, You Overestimated Him

He didn't lose the Alcoa money for any other reason than he ran the company like crap when he was there. The options he sold off only took off in value afterward, because the incoming CEO undid all the damage O'Neill did when he was there. The success of the company, that would have made O'Neill $250 million, was solely because HE WASN'T THERE RUNNING THINGS ANYMORE!

Now, as to his understanding of economics, the only word that comes to mind is: ZERO! He was a horrible CEO and a worse Treasury secretary. My dog is more knowledgeable in economics & finance than this buffoon!

Now there is no line worker anywhere within GM who is making $135k per year, unless they are working 60 hour weeks, every week of the year. The contract is an open book. Lexis/Nexis has it on line. 48 forty hour weeks (1920 hours per year) would pay a little more than $60k. Add in the total added payroll costs and health care costs and it comes to about $75k. People would have to work 900 hours of overtime per year for that to work out. Thus, he's an idiot, AND A LIAR!

The Professor

[KoKo]

20. Yes, obviously I did..and many other DU'ers might have also....

That's why it's good that folks like you and others clarified the issues concerning his background and policies...and why I posted. Not all of us are as well informed about all the nuances of folks who confront Bush on some issues and this Board is very good with correcting misinformation by those who are more informed on some issues helping out those who aren't.

And, as Martha said: "It's a good thing."

Sharing info is a good thing....

:-)'s

[ProfessorGAC]

21. I Know!

I wasn't being a meanie! Just being blunt! I knew he was just another neocon based upon his performance at Alcoa. Lots of folks like me at metals' companies, since they can't control quality based upon "batches", but rather on statistics and economic elements like yield and cost. So, i know lots of folks at Alcoa and have for years.

He was a buffoon then. He was a buffon as TreasSec. He's a buffoon now. And, as soon as he says taking a public office cost him $250 million he confimred himself a monumental liar!

The Professor

[KoKo]

25. That's why I complimented you...and your info is very good to know! n/t

[Javaman]

24. Were you able to see his lobotomy scar? nt

[leesa]

29. Well, come on, Rumsfeld is his best friend. What did you expect?

It's interesting how they just flat out lie about workers wages like that.