Can you believe that the Wingnuts *still* claim "Mobile Weapons Labs"?

[benburch]

I am having a debate on another board with the stupidest motherfucker on the planet. He *still* maintains that the Iraqi trailers were mobile weapons labs when even the Bush Administration appears to have conceded the point. The latest straw he is grasping is that the official report on the matter understates the amount of Aluminum required to produce hydrogen by a factor of 8, and he leaps from this to the assertion that these were anthrax production facilities. Of course, the reactors on that trailer will produce hydrogen for balloons just fine if you add eight time the stated amount of Aluminum. And they are quite large enough to hold that amount and the necessary water and sodium hydroxide.

(It takes 800 grams of Aluminum Foil to liberate one cubic meter of H2 from the water/sodium hydroxide solution.)

[redqueen]

1. Yes

I have come to the realization that they will believe *ANYTHING* they are told, no matter if it's later retracted by the liars who initially misled them.

They will do anything and everything they have to do in order to avoid thinking for themselves... because doing that would necessarily result in their having to amend their entire worldview. Since they apparently don't have the strength or integrity to deal with reality, they prefer to keep their heads firmly planted in the sand.

[leftofthedial]

2. nothing about there beliefs has ever been rational

so why should they start now

[unpossibles]

3. sadly, yes I do believe it

in light of the people who still believe the following despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary:

Iraq caused 9/11, The Iraqi invasion was about democracy (or WMDs or imminent threat), John Kerry wanted to take our guns away, that Bush won the 2000 election, that the last 2 elections were free from any questionable activities, that Bush is from Texas and is a "regular Joe", that torture is OK if we're the ones doing it, that suspension of the Constitution is acceptable to defeat Terror, etc.

Sorry, I can't go on; it's too depressing how many people refuse to believe anything but FOXaganda.

[NNN0LHI]

4. They don't believe it. They hope other stupid people will believe it

Kind of like Santa Claus.

Don

[benburch]

7. This one is actually dumb enough to really believe it.

His masters don't believe it, of course, but he does.

[DianaForRussFeingold]

5. source, an Iraqi defector suspected of being mentally unstable and a liar.

Show him this article; Ex-officer: WMD warnings ignored! the source, an Iraqi defector suspected of being mentally unstable and a liar. The CIA officer took his pen, he recounted in an interview, and crossed out the whole paragraph.

A few days later, the lines were back in the speech. Powell stood before the U.N. Security Council on Feb. 5 and said: "We have first-hand descriptions of biological weapons factories on wheels and on rails."

The sentence took Drumheller completely by surprise.

"We thought we had taken care of the problem," said the man who was the CIA's European operations chief before retiring last year, "but I turn on the television and there it was, again."

While the administration has repeatedly acknowledged intelligence failures over Iraqi weapons claims that led to war, new accounts by former insiders such as Drumheller shed light on one of the most spectacular failures of all: how U.S. intelligence agencies were eagerly drawn in by a troubled defector's stories of secret germ factories in the Iraqi desert. The mobile labs were never found.http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/14895963.htm :kick:

[Warpy]

6. He obviously doesn't know what kind of containment facility

it takes to produce and handle weaponized anthrax. He obviously doesn't know that the Iraqi experiments to weaponize anthrax by using bentonite to abrade away the sticky protein coating on the spores was unsuccessful and discarded by the late 80s. He obviously doesn't know those trailers had canvas sides. Some containment!

He obviously doesn't know anything Pox News doesn't tell him.

He who knows and knows not that he knows is asleep. Awaken him.
He who knows not and knows that he knows not is ignorant. Educate him.
He who knows and knows that he knows is wise. Follow him.
He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool. Shun him.
-------Arabic proverb

[benburch]

8. All true about him. nt

[DianaForRussFeingold]

9. My dad always said that, Arabic Proverb? Hmmm..

my dad's German..:rofl: :rofl:

[Warpy]

20. The attribution was in a literature anthology

of some 40 years ago and it stuck.

Remarkable things have stuck, my head is stuffed with all sorts of utterly useless information and little that is practical.

[geomon666]

10. Why waste your time Ben?

I mean other than getting some cheap laughs off of the "village idiot" factor, what can be gained by talking to these creatures?

[benburch]

12. You got it right. Amusement.

Though I hope to also provide them with some discomfort.

[n2doc]

11. Doesn't matter to them

The fairy tale has to go on. Even when Bushco themselves say it ain't true. It is always funny when Randi Rhodes gets some freeper on her show and plays the audio clip of Bush saying that "there is no connection between Sadaam Hussein and Al Quada". They nearly always act like they have temporary hearling loss...

[benburch]

13. Remember that Neocon idiot Randi debated on TV?

The one who covered her EARS so she would not have to hear the truth Randi was speaking?!

[warrens]

14. FEAR the Winnebegos of Mass Destruction n/t

[oasis]

15. Some jerks really don't believe it, they're just to proud to admit they've

backed the wrong horse.

[Javaman]

16. "800 grams of Aluminum Foil to liberate one cubic meter of H2"

But it only takes one roll of renolds wrap to put around that posters head.

he's the repuke version of a tinfoil hat candidate.

[flyarm]

17. I STILL GET IN ONLINE FIGHTS WITH THOSE IDIOTS ABOUT THE

WEATHER BALLOON TRUCKS... and i did from the get go on message boards..and other sites..

my internet group is constantly dispelling this myth!

here's some good links to shove in their faces...

http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2006/05/judy-miller-curveball-and-mobile.html

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/5/5/10645/61301


White House admits Iraq WMDs error

Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
Thursday April 13, 2006
The Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1752609,00.html
snip:
The White House has acknowledged for the first time that a key moment in post-war Iraq, the declaration by George Bush that "we have found the weapons of mass destruction", was based on intelligence known in Washington to be false.
The president's assertion on May 29 2003 that Saddam Hussein's arsenal had been located was based on the capture of two trailers claimed to be mobile biological warfare labs. In Mr Bush's TV interview that day, and for months afterwards, US officials used them to justify the invasion.

snip:
However, the Washington Post yesterday reported that the Pentagon had sent nine US and British weapons experts to Iraq to examine the trailers, who concluded they had nothing to do with biological weapons, and transmitted their finding to Washington on May 27 2003.
In response to the paper, the White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, yesterday admitted Mr Bush had used false information but said he had been unaware of the fact, and called the reporting "irresponsible". "The president's comments were based on intelligence assessments by the CIA and briefing by the intelligence community," he said. "It's not something that turns round on a dime." However, by September 2003 vice-president Dick Cheney was still saying the trailers could have been used to make anthrax.




these articles just say no wmd of any kind were found..

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5505.htm

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3380931.stm


from Carnegie Endowment for International Peace report on WMD, Carnegie Endowment Report, January 2004

http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/Iraq3Table5.pdf

full report here:
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1435&prog=zgp&proj=znpp

i have lots more in my files if you need it..to dispell these ignuts!!

FLY

[benburch]

18. Thanks, fly.

But he appears to be factproof. I'm just gonna laugh at him now.

[flyarm]

22. THE LIES BEHIND THE LIES...

http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1518416,00.html


http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/040127/2004012709.html
SNIP:

New York Times: Kay denies evidence of moved Iraqi unconventional weapons to Syria; or WMD in Iraq
Iraq-USA, Politics, 1/27/2004

The former Chief of the Committee for hunt for the alleged Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, David Kay, denied any the existence of proof that Iraq had moved unconventional weapons into Syria.

In an interview with New York Times published simultaneously by British " Financial Times " on Monday, Kay said that the allegations of some US administration's officials have no real proof.

"Iraq was totally free of weapons of mass destruction at the beginning of 1999 year, that is to say, four years before launching the US war on Iraq under the pretext of its possession of the said weapons," Kay added.

[flyarm]

23. Did our spies let us down? NO * AND BLAIR LIED!

AND THE STUPID IDIOTS WHO STILL REPEAT THIS BULLSHIT ARE TRAITORS TO THIS ANTION..OR JUST TOTAL IGNUTS!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/butler/story/0,,1258766,00.html
SNIP:

A third defector unearthed said he had helped develop mobile weapons labs in specially imported Renault refrigerator trucks, a claim that surfaced not only in the British dossier, but also in a speech by Colin Powell, the US Secretary of State, to the UN in February 2003 setting out its case for war. They turned out to be control systems for weather balloons.



SNIP:

Hints that something had gone badly wrong in the hunt for Saddam's alleged arsenal of weapons of mass destruction started coming in early in the military campaign to oust him.

As troops reached the sites so confidently earmarked by M16 as likely to contain WMD, within days of the war ending, they found them empty. Could there have been a terrible mistake? Step by step since May last year, there have been growing doubts about the existence of the elusive WMD. One by one, previously certain commentators have changed their views. Even specialists intimately involved in the hunt finally began to admit that their task was fruitless.

Yet, even after David Kay, the head of the American group charged with finding the weapons, admitted that Iraq's ability to develop and produce chemical weapons was probably 'reduced if not entirely destroyed' after the first Gulf war, Blair maintained his defiant stance. He repeatedly insisted that he had 'no doubt at all' that WMD would be found.

[flyarm]

24. MOBILE LAB BULLSHIT.. THEY WERE FOR WEATHER BALLOONS

MAKE SURE YOU READ THE LAST SENTENCE OF THIS THAT I POST HERE..THE LAST SENTENCE...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,973110,00.html

Blow to Blair over 'mobile labs'

Saddam's trucks were for balloons, not germs

Peter Beaumont and Antony Barnett
Sunday June 8, 2003
The Observer


Tony Blair faces a fresh crisis over Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, as evidence emerges that two vehicles that he has repeatedly claimed to be Iraqi mobile biological warfare production units are nothing of the sort.
The intelligence agency MI6, British defence officers and technical experts from the Porton Down microbiological research establishment have been ordered to conduct an urgent review of the mobile facilities, following US analysis which casts serious doubt on whether they really are germ labs.

The British review comes amid widespread doubts expressed by scientists on both sides of the Atlantic that the trucks could have been used to make biological weapons.

Instead The Observer has established that it is increasingly likely that the units were designed to be used for hydrogen production to fill artillery balloons,

*******part of a system originally sold to Saddam by Britain in 1987.


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,977916,00.html

SNIP:

Iraqi mobile labs nothing to do with germ warfare, report finds

Peter Beaumont, Antony Barnett and Gaby Hinsliff
Sunday June 15, 2003
The Observer


An official British investigation into two trailers found in northern Iraq has concluded they are not mobile germ warfare labs, as was claimed by Tony Blair and President George Bush, but were for the production of hydrogen to fill artillery balloons, as the Iraqis have continued to insist.
The conclusion by biological weapons experts working for the British Government is an embarrassment for the Prime Minister, who has claimed that the discovery of the labs proved that Iraq retained weapons of mass destruction and justified the case for going to war against Saddam Hussein.

Instead, a British scientist and biological weapons expert, who has examined the trailers in Iraq, told The Observer last week: 'They are not mobile germ warfare laboratories. You could not use them for making biological weapons. They do not even look like them. They are exactly what the Iraqis said they were - facilities for the production of hydrogen gas to fill balloons.'

The conclusion of the investigation ordered by the British Government - and revealed by The Observer last week - is hugely embarrassing for Blair, who had used the discovery of the alleged mobile labs as part of his efforts to silence criticism over the failure of Britain and the US to find any weapons of mass destruction since the invasion of Iraq.

FLY

[rubberducky]

19. They are all ditto-heads

Everything they are told by thier leaders, thier reply is ditto! Never could figure how so many people that call into Rush`s show call themselves ditto-heads. You would think they would be ashamed to prove to everyone listening that they don`t know how to think on thier own.:blush:

[Ganja Ninja]

21. A lot of these morons don't believe what they're saying but

they keep saying it because they think it's the only way to keep up support for the boy king. If he won't admit it by now then he probably won't ever let it go. No matter how much you beat his brains in with the truth he'll be right back at it tomorrow.

[flyarm]

25. I BELIEVE ALOT OF THOSE ON MANY WEB SITES ARE PAID

disinformation ppl..they are paid to keep the myths going..for those who have no cognitive thinking!!
i was told before * started this war by a cia type friend that they had rooms full of young soldiers who were given talking points to post over and over on many message boards and chat rooms..they were disinformation rooms..and they passed the same screen name among many ...

this admin has many paid disinformation artists!!

and if you watch message boards..say aol message boards you can see personality changes in just one screen name if you pay attention..closely enough..

and some of the paid ones have numerous screen names..

i used to expose one all the time on aol message boards!!

they actually infiltrated my internet group...and had me shut down,..and i lost everything ..all my files...but what they didn't count on was, i had a large group who retained everything..on these sob's!

fly

[benburch]

26. I have thought that for many years.

Because no human being could be quite as clueless as many of these appear to be.

[flyarm]

27. its not just the msm they pay for propaganda!!..there are many who

are experts in the field..and they are among us everywhere...otherwise how would they get away with all they do??

but there must be a compliant citizenship willing to buy all the bullshit they sell!

anD unfortunately most of us are honest people, so we do not see it .until its too late...

hitler used the same tactics..

think about it..the first group that supported Hitler were the Jewish rabbi's!!

History does repeat itself, to a citizenry who does not study history..and we have watered down our education system of world history and geography...

we have a totally dumbed down society today..and this is not by accident!

no one uses common sense today..if they did, no one would have believed what they were sold, as the official story of 9/11..

cognitive thinking is a thing of the past, for many in this country today...now i am not saying for all..many people searched out and reached out for others who did not "buy " the bullshit, and have found a way for reasoning..and real thinking..and real converstation and discussion of what has been going on..and that is through the internet today...

i have studied how Hitler conned the german people, because i could never understand how people could be so conned...but by the time the germans figured out what was going on..all those that fought what was happening , those who igured it out early , were killed..the people had no chance because they were complacent before the Hitler take over happened, when it mattered...the germans were not lazy people and they were not ignorant..they were just complacent..and they were sold lots of propaganda..and there were people infiltrated among them..disinformation people...who latched onto those who were uninformed and who just didn't get involved in what was really happening in their country..until it was too late...

history does repeat itself...its just the people like us, who are their enemy..

and we must prevail..

i always feel that when i come face to face with those on other web sites that i show to be liars or fools..i am not educating them..i am educating those who are not in the discussion but those who are reading..and not commenting..

the invisible person..and i am helping them learn the truth...i use the disinformation assholes...to educate others who know something is wrong..but they are just not as aware as we are...or they have just come to the light ..of realizing something is surely amiss..but they just don't know what it is...
or where to find the info..and truth...

truth is our weapon against these fascists...

and truth will never let us down..unless we go complacent...

i have found some of the most uneducated of truth are some of our congresspeople..and now i have set up a network to send stuff daily to those running for office so they <do know the truth>..so they do know the facts..

so i never have to hear another one say ..oh what is PNAC..."i never heard of it"...as i had one tell me at the dem convention in 2004..."send it to me sweetheart, if i have the time i will read it"...i was told...

we have the power of truth...and it can not be allowed to be defeated!

fly