Would "slavery reparations" get more support if "slave owners"

[IdaBriggs]

were going to be compensated, too?

Discuss. :)

[slackmaster]

1. I should be compensated because none of my ancestors ever owned one

We missed out on the ill-gotten gains enjoyed by slave owners.

WHEN DO I GET REPARATED?

I DEMAND MY CUT!!!

:nuke:

[skooooo]

2. Here's my question about reparations....

Let's assume that we agree reparations should be made. (I know we don't, but go along with me here....).

How do we determine who gets reparations? Who makes this determination?

Until someone has an acceptable answer to these questions, I think this issue is going no where - regardless whether it should or shouldn't.

[Virginia Dare]

3. Here's my suggestion...

every American who has ancestors from formerly slave-holding states must take a DNA test to determine the percentages of European blood and African blood. They are compensated accordingly.

:think:

[seriousstan]

4. A DNA database of a large group of people, predominately black

at the disposal of the government? Can you say "lead balloon"?

[Virginia Dare]

5. It was sarcasm...n/t

[skooooo]

13. lol glad to hear that..

I thought you were serious at first.

[Beelzebud]

We could have IBM maintain the database!

And get everyone cool new barcode tattoos!

:D

[dipsydoodle]

7. There is volantary database

which was being used to trace ancestry back to specific African countries. From memory of a tv program on the subject it threw up an absurd number of white european ancestors.

[Virginia Dare]

9. That is true...

if such a program were to be implemented, I think there would be alot of people out there who would be shocked at the results. All of these white people running around claiming to be "part Cherokee" or "part Choktaw" might be just a bit surprised. Likewise, I think some black people would be surprised at the percentage of European ancestry that they carry.

[skooooo]

14. Exactly my point.....

People "owed" reparations cannot be determined without opening up a WHOLE lot of issues. The people who think they would get reparations may not be "owed" according to whatever standards are established. Other people may have no idea their ancestors were slaves may be "owed".

That's why, imo, this is a non-starter. It's not possible to really determine who is owed what - UNLESS there were specific incidents that were recorded and we know who was there - like descendants of that Kansas town (I think) that had all their businesses torn up during a race riot. They were paid for damages eventually.

[slackmaster]

16. A lot of people would oppose that for a lot of reasons

A lot of "white" people have African-American ancestors.

Would proponents of reparations approve of proportional payouts to anyone with African-American blood irrespective of skin tone? Or would we limit it to Octaroons and higher, kind of like we do with Native Americans.

BTW I have a cousin who is 1/8 Cherokee because his mom was 1/4 Cherokee. My cousin's wife is also 1/8 Cherokee, therefore their children are also 1/8 Cherokee. That is significant because it does entitle them to claims of tribal membership in some contexts.

[robcon]

12. A racial determination????

So if my ancestors lived in Ireland until they immigrated to the U.S. in 1880, I am guilty because of my "white" "European" genes?

European 'blood' = guilt.

Are you sure you're not for an Aryan racial superiority, while you're at it?

Edit: I did not see any evidence of a sarcastic bent to your post Dare, but I will apologize if you did not mean the racial determination of 'guilt.'

[Virginia Dare]

30. My bad...

I should have indicated that it was sarcasm. I too have Irish immigrant ancestors from late 1800's, as well as former slave-holding ancestors, I guess I'm only 1/2 guilty? (Sarcasm again).

[XemaSab]

24. An even stickier question is "Who should pay reparations?"

Many white families only came here after the civil war. It's not fair that they should pay.

Many northerners not only were in free states, but fought on the side of the north to free the slaves. It's not fair that they should pay.

Many southern whites were poor and did not own slaves. Even if they fough on the side of the south, should they pay?

Many southern whites who did own slaves lost all their wealth after the war. Even though they may be in the same economic boat as the descendants of non-slaveowning whites, should they be left to bear the brunt of the burden?

I know a grand total of one person who is descended from a slaveowner. He's a scientist and a proud democrat, and he's ashamed of his slaveowning family past. Why should he have his wages taken from him like a deadbeat dad just because his ancestor owned a plantation in Virginia?

[Virginia Dare]

31. Good points, all....

I'm descended from Virginia slave-holders, and I'm a proud liberal democrat.

Reparations are in theory a good way to try and right a greivous wrong, but I think too much time has gone by now to be able to do it in a way that would make any sense.

[dipsydoodle]

6. It's taken 5 years for this to come up again

9/11 killed the subject for the time being back in 2001. From memory it had got to the point where claimants may need to prove their genealogy.

[Recursion]

8. *shrug* my ancestors were French pirates

They ran slaves, guns, and rum through the British and US navy blockades, and through the competing Barbary pirates. Do I have to pay more than most people?

[slackmaster]

18. No, but the next bottle of rum is on you!

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

[salinen]

10. Reparations should happen

A formal apology and the comdemnation of slavery should be made to help relieve the embarrassment that slavery imprisoned human beings. While whites brag about their families coming over on the Mayflower, decendants of former slaves have an embarrassing past.

[skooooo]

15. see my question

Who should get reparations, and who will determine who gets them?

[salinen]

17. See my answer

A formal apology and the comdemnation of slavery should be made. That is my idea for reparations. This is why I agree with Affirmative Action. It is some compensation for the atrocity of slavery.

[skooooo]

20. ok - i see....

Sorry, didn't read carefully first time!!! :-P

[slackmaster]

19. None of my ancestors ever owned a slave

So I'm not sorry.

:hide:

[salinen]

23. While my ancestors were buying property

and going to college, slavery continued, in other forms, into the sixties.

[slackmaster]

25. Unfortunately it's still going on today

How often have we read of people being held in involuntary servitude in the suburbs of Los Angeles? They're typically young women and children from Latin America or Indochina.

The skin color is different but they are still slaves.

[IdaBriggs]

21. What do you think slave holders should be compensated? (if at all) nt

[northzax]

11. this is a good point

some of my ancestors, to my shame, owned slaves. (most were, to their credit, abolitionists, but in a large, old family, there are always some outliers.) the government simply abrogated their legally obtained property. Sure, what they were doing was evil and immoral, but it was fully legal (heck, it was enshrined in the Constitution) their property was basically emminent domained for the public good, without compensation.

according to this link: http://www.gongol.com/research/economics/slavebuyout/ the price of a field hand slave in New Orleans in 1860 was $1,658.00 (in 1860 dollars). Now, my great great great great granddaddy owned four fieldhand slaves at the start of the war, we'll depreciate them to $1000/each to account for age and the like. Let's see, say, the goverment paid compensation of half the depreciated value of each slave, or $500 each, for a total of $2000. left to mature at 8% compounded interest for 140 years...it seems the govermment owes my family $95,577,521.40. I'm willing to negotiate for $.50 on the dollar, no problem.

and of course, for the people who don't get it through their skulls...well, sorry.

[ComerPerro]

22. It won't be long before Republicans push to componsate families

that lost labor and therefore revenue when slavery was abolished...

[Bandit]

26. Does everyone get a mule?

:shrug: At least an apology should be in order...or are they still only three fifths of a man?

[cigsandcoffee]

27. I thought affirmative action was supposed to be reparations

It seems a fairer way to do it, as well.

[calico1]

28. Everyone who was ever a slave is long dead.

Everyone who was ever a slave owner is long dead. When reparations were made to the victims of the Japanese internment camps (which wasn't much) that was different because most of them were still alive, or their immediate descendents were. So the victims themselves got the apology and the reparation. Slavery is an awful legacy that we have had to deal with. But there is no one alive today or that has been alive for years that had anything to do with it. The fact is we can never make reparations to the people who were victims, nor punish anyone who had slaves, because as I stated, they are all dead. I am not trying to be insensitive to this issue. Its just that making reparations now to people that have never been slaves and making people who never had anything to do with slavery pay for those reparations just doesn't seem right to me.

[Jacobin]

29. My great great great grandfather freed his slaves in 1850

before the Civil War and gave them money to move to and start farming in Liberia. (On a sad note, the freed slaves enslaved local Africans, built big plantation homes, and their ancestors ruled the country until about the late 1980's when they were overthrown and mostly killed off)

How much do I get?

[Solo_in_MD]

32. Reparations will never happen

This entire story started with one arrogant Ivy League prof on a slow newsday...