Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Things you know about America that are too Dreadful to tell your Friends

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 07:42 PM
Original message
Things you know about America that are too Dreadful to tell your Friends
Edited on Mon Jul-10-06 07:46 PM by KoKo01
or Relatives. Things your Children wouldn't want to hear from you.

Are any of you imprisoned by your knowledge of what's going on and HAS GONE on in AMERICA which is why we are where we are today?

Do you find yourself at Family Gatherings, Cocktail Parties, Group Fests or just around your everyday folks in your lives...having to "Hold Back," because if you said what you knew ....you would be looked at as if the "tinfoil" was growing out of your ears?

Do you hold your tongue in fear that the awful knowledge you hold inside which is verifiably correct (with links to Mainstream Sources) will be seen as LIES by anyone you speak to? Because someone will say: "Oh, but that's just Not Correct...I saw on CNN/CNBC/MSNBC/FOX or heard on NPR something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT?"

Do you wonder why when you have your facts in order with verification it still might sound "loony" to those you trust?

:shrug: Just posting this because after a "4th of July Family and Friends Gathering" it's taken me a week to post what I felt after leaving the event...my emotions were still so unsettled.

Anyone else had an "out of body" experience over the last holiday wondering if you lived on the same planet with anyone except those out here on the "Liberal Internet?"

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Threedifferentones Donating Member (820 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yep
happens too often these days.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Most of my family and friends know much of what I know
Edited on Mon Jul-10-06 07:49 PM by Lorien
but for those who don't; I often just tell them to start reading "the Guardian" online (since they don't respect any non mainstream news sources). One friend of mine who recently bumped into me exclaimed "Oh! I've been reading "the Guardian" and I just can hardly believe everything that's going on in the world! American news sources don't tell us ANYTHING"! Slowly, the truth is spreading.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wife' family is mostly Republican
We talk about the weather, how the garden is doing, their various vacations (much more than I will ever be able to afford) and stay away from anything relating to politics or government. It's just not worth the effort, to get into any discussion with them. However, last year when gas prices went up, my sister-in-law was complaining about the increase in the cost to fill her tank. I could only say to her.. Just wait until these increases ripple through the economy, because everything (including the gasoline) travels by truck and her face turned white as a ghost as it hit her, what was about to happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bjornsdotter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes

However I notice the older I get, the less I care what they think of me.....especially the side of the family that would fit right in on the "Jerry Springer Show".

My salvation is DU, my husband and a very dear friend, a fellow DUer...those things keep me sane.

Cheers :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. My more conservative sibblings
and in laws now listen to everything I say. They are all Dems but they aren't as political as I am. All I hear from them now is well you did warn us since 2000. It doesn't make me feel any better about the state of our planet, but they are way more aware of reality these days.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yes
Sometimes I wonder if all the aggravation is worth knowing the true facts. Knowing what is really happening makes it hard to hold conversations with people who are not paying attention. It is not so much having my friends and family question what I say, but the fact that the truth is so negative that talking about it brings down the mood of any gathering.

In family gatherings it is easier and happier to limit conversation to trivialities. Conversations about real events are held only with other activists.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hubby and I sort of got into it today
Not that he's a doubter. But here goes:

We're getting a new roof because of a hail storm a few weeks ago. Insurance is paying for it but it's still quite expensive. Today, we were going over the figures and picking out the roofing. He said that he just didn't understand why prices were escalating like crazy. The roofer had advised us that some of his materials having been going up monthly for the past 6 months. Shingles as well as soffit and facia parts.

So I turned to my husband and lost it. Told him to put it together. Asphalt roofing - petroleum products - building materials - Iraq and the permanent military bases as well as an embassy large enough to see from space. Figure it out!

I'd be less animated if I was talking to friends or neighbors. But I won't hold my tongue. I welcome to opportunity to talk about how it is when the rubber mets the road and then it meets our wallets.

This doesn't illustrate the rapes and atrocity of mass death. The news of those is starting to hit the tv every night now. But people do understand everything where it concerns their wallets. And I won't miss an opportunity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. Here are some tin foil observations
Edited on Mon Jul-10-06 09:39 PM by teryang
During the 2004 election day in the center of a predominantly Democratic district in a predominantly Democratic county, lines extended for hundreds of yards from the polling place. The polling place and the adjacent court house were closed for about two hours because of a "bomb threat." While that bomb threat was being investigated, a section of Air Force F-16 fighters, flathatted across the scene at very low altitude and a deafening noise shook the area, literally in view of hundreds of apprehensive voters. There was a very large police presence as the courthouse and polling place were cordoned off from public access. (As it turned out there was no bomb and no investigation of any kind revealed where that bomb threat came from.) Now what possible use could an F16 have in dealing with a bomb threat?

I looked at a prosecutor that I didn't even know from the courthouse and said, "you'd think someone was trying to interfere with the elections here." He said, "you know, I just had the same thought."

What really pissed me off sometime before the election was when JebFraud and jackass were here preaching to the MDs at the local public hospital about how they are going to do away with trial lawyers and their stupid lawsuits. I think idiot boy made the scene at a NASCAR race as well. On the way home from work, police stopped me from driving to my home, because it was in a "security area." The officer told me that if I made a left turn toward my house, I would be arrested.

The day of 911, it was reported that there was a cell of terrorists in Ormond by the Sea. And Jeb Bush came by Embry Riddle Aeronautical College and cleaned out all the immigration records there. A retired Air Force officer from Embry Riddle sent an email around recommending we bomb Iran. I guess he got the wrong script.

2001 was too damn creepy. I heard on the news that shopping malls were the next al qaeda targets. That Israeli agents were frequenting shopping malls. This large mall in a predominantly liberal west coast Florida county seemed to me to be occupied by a squad of plain clothes European or Israeli looking military agents watching everyone. They looked like they were particularly interested in watching some wealthy looking Arab young men, who appeared to buying bagfuls of the most expensive shoes in the Footlooker. New cars had been rolled into the mall for sales display (not unusual). The hairs on my neck stood straight up. The people I was with also found the group of military looking males and Saudis very odd and out of place. We quickly departed the area. People laugh when I tell that story. It's paranoid, it's absurd. Couldn't happen here.

I had a fantasy that I was taking a business trip to San Diego in August 2001, and that a ten most wanted terrorist later arrested (or killed) in Pakistan, got on the plane at Tampa international with his giant bodyguard and sat right behind me, instantly putting a chill on the conversation I was having with a microbiology professor. Thank god they got off at Dallas Fort Worth. Don't they have air marshalls on these flights? Didn't he/she recognize this guy?

Then there's that persistent rumor that the bulk of FBI counterterrorism agents were sent (away) to California on or about the week of 911, to attend an "anti-terrorism" seminar. Yeah, sure.

The latest thing I learned (personally) that creeps me out is that the local police intelligence unit routinely finds criminal suspects by pulling their social security FICA records from some Federal computer they are hooked up to, without any warrant authorizing the Federal Privacy Act violations. "Heck, we can do it anytime we want to."

For the more concrete and mundane disgusting things in America, visit your local jail or police sub-station. Look for restraint chairs, communal toilets with no privacy, and security areas with no video cameras where inmates get their beatings, tasings and hosings administered by law enforcement.

Recently, the local State Attorney, saw the other side when his daughter got the restraint chair treatment. A feud has broken out, ironically, between him and the PBA, about his attempt to prosecute the officers who mistreated his daughter, who apparently committed some kind of misdemeanor or another. Thank god for checks and balances.

One final note, my children who are adults now also drive. They are stopped by the police on various pretexts all the time, when they are out coming home from the closing shift or socializing with friends after work. And five million Americans live under some sort of penal incarceration or supervision. Land of the free.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tlsmith1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. I Don't Talk to My Family About Politics
Well, actually I just talked politics with my oldest sister, but she's the only other Democrat. Otherwise, I don't talk politics with family members. They are so hardcore Republican that they would probably think I'm nuts.

Tammy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. Most chapters from ZINN
Edited on Mon Jul-10-06 09:14 PM by UTUSN
*********QUOTE**********

From, A People’s History of the United States, by Howard ZINN (paperback)

p. 149: We take nothing by conquest, thank God

…. “Violence leads to violence, and if this movement of ours does not lead to others and to bloodshed, I am much mistaken.“ ….

p. 150: In the White House now was James Polk, a Democrat, an expansionist, who, on the night of his inauguration, confided to his Secretary of the Navy that one of his main objectives was the acquisition of California. His order to General Taylor to move troops to the Rio Grande was a challenge to the Mexicans. ….

Ordering troops to the Rio Grande, into territory inhabited by Mexicans was clearly a provocation. ….

p. 151: “A corps of properly organized volunteers…would invade, overrun, and occupy Mexico. They would enable us not only to take California, but to keep it.” It was shortly after that, in the summer of 1845, that John O’Sullivan, editor of the Democratic Review, used the phrase that became famous, saying it was “Our manifest destiny to overspread the continent allotted by Providence for the free development of our yearly multiplying millions.” Yes, manifest destiny.

All that was needed in the spring of 1846 was a military incident to begin the war that Polk wanted. ….

The Mexicans had fired the first shot. But they had done what the American government wanted, according to Colonel Hitchcock, who wrote in his diary, even b efore those first incidents: “I have said from the first that the United States are the aggressors…. We have not one particle of right to be here….”

P. 152: Polk recorded in his diary what he said to the cabinet meeting: “I stated … that up to this time, as we knew, we had heard of no open act of aggression by the Mexican army, but that the danger was imminent that such acts would be committed. ….

The country was not “excited and impatient.” But the President was. …. Polk spoke of the dispatch of American troops to the Rio Grande as a necessary measure of defense. As John Schroeder says (Mr. Polk’s War): “Indeed, the reverse was true; President Polk had incited war by sending American soldiers into what was disputed territory, historically controlled and inhabited by Mexicans.”

Congress then rushed to approve the war message. “The disciplined Democratic majority in the House responded with alacrity and high-handed efficiency to Polk’s May 11 war recommendations.” …. p. 153: Debate on the bill providing volunteers and money for the war was limited to two hours, and most of this was used up reading selected portions of the tabled documents, so that barely a half-hour was left for discussion of the issues.

The Whig party was presumably against the war in Mexico, but it was not against expansion. ….Also they were not so powerfully against the military action that they would stop it by denying men and money for the operation. They did not want to risk the accusation that they were putting American soldiers in peril by depriving them of the materials necessary to fight. The result was that Whigs joined Democrats in voting overwhelmingly for the war resolution, 74 to 4. ….

In the Senate, there was debate, but it was limited to one day, and “the tactics of stampede were there repeated,” according to historian Frederick Merk. The war measure passed, 40 to 2, Whigs joining Democrats. …

Abraham Lincoln of Illinois was not yet in Congress when the war began, but after his election in 1846... …. …His “spot resolutions” became famous--he challenged Polk to specify the exact spot where American blood was shed “on the American soil.” But he would not try to end the war by stopping funds for men and supplies. …. …he said, “…The declaration that we have always opposed the war is true or false, according as one may understand the term ‘oppose the war.’ …. The marching an army into the midst of a peaceful Mexican settlement, frightening the inhabitants away, leaving their growing crops and property to destruction… ….With few individual exceptions, you have constantly had our votes here for all the necessary supplies….”

p. 154: Accompanying all this aggressiveness was the idea that the United States would be giving the blessings of liberty and democracy to more people. This was intermingled with ideas of racial superiority, longings for the beautiful lands of New Mexico and California, and thoughts of commercial enterprise across the Pacific.

p. 156: The churches, for the most part, were either outspokenly for the war or timidly silent. ….However, one Baptist minister, the Reverend Francis Wayland, president of Brown University, gave three sermons in the university chapel in which he said that only wars of self-defense were just, and in case of unjust war, the individual was morally obligated to resist it and lend no money to the government to support it.

p. 157: As the war went on, opposition grew. ….The abolitionists, speaking through William Lloyd Garrison’s Liberator, denounced the war as one “of aggression, of invasion, of conquest, and rapine--marked by ruffianism, perfidy, and every other feature of national depravity…” ….

p. 158: Where was popular opinion? It is hard to say. After the first rush, enlistments began to dwindle. The 1846 elections showed much anti-Polk sentiment, but who could tell how much of this was due to the war? ….

p. 160: We know much more about the American army--volunteers, not conscripts, lured by money and opportunity for social advancement via promotion in the armed forces. …. At first there seemed to be enthusiasm in the army, fired by pay and patriotism. … This initial spirit soon wore off. ….

p. 161: By late 1846, recruitment was falling off, so physical requirements were lowered, and anyone bringing in acceptable recruits would get $2 a head. Even this didn’t work. …. And soon, the reality of battle came in upon the glory and the promises. ….

p. 163: Meanwhile, by land and by sea, Anglo-American forces were moving into California. …. It was a separate war that went on in California, where Anglo-Americans raided Spanish settlements, stole horses, and declared California separated from Mexico--the “Bear Flag Republic.”

p. 165: After Taylor’s army took Monterey (Mexico) he reported “some shameful atrocities” by the Texas Rangers, and he sent them home when their enlistment expired. But others continued robbing and killing Mexicans. ….The U.S. bombardment of the city (Vera Cruz) became an indiscriminate killing of civilians. ….

p. 166: It was a war of the American elite against the Mexican elite, each side exhorting, using, killing its own population as well as the other. …. P. 167: As often in war, battles were fought without point. …”He had originated it in error and caused it to be fought, with inadequate forces, for an object that had no existence.” ….

p. 168: “Although they had volunteered to go to war, and by far the greater number of them honored their commitments by creditably sustaining hardship and battle, and behaved as well as soldiers in a hostile country are apt to behave, they did not like the army, they did not like war, and generally speaking, they did not like Mexico or the Mexicans. …. The glory of the victory was for the President and the generals, not the deserters, the dead, the wounded. ….

p. 169: Mexico surrendered. There were calls among Americans to take all of Mexico. The Treaty… llll just took half. ….The United States paid Mexico $ million, which led the Whig Intelligencer to conclude that “we take nothing by conquest….Thank God.”

**********UNQUOTE*************
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
12. Yes...
Everyone I know thinks I'm some freaked out conspiracy theorist. It really sucks. I find it hard to have a conversation with anyone about anything, because everything boils down to politics with me anymore. It's impossible to talk to people because, where do you start? It's like trying to teach a child to read by giving them War and Peace and saying, "have at it."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
13. I don't tangle
with those who don't/won't get it. But neither am I silent. It's a world of sound bites, so I like to drop a soundbite or two and just let them think what they like. Hit & run, in the best Rethug style...I'm getting it down. But then I'm comfortable with not being especially popular in certain settings. For those I encounter who *might* be getting it, or who at least give me a chance to be heard, I am kind and polite but never wavering in my views. Confidence is important in being seen as credible.
It's particularly depressing to be with people you thought of as 'liberal' who question anything but the party line. Half the time I just make brief statements and tell people to google if they're clueless. I don't feel I have to explain everything or get caught in circular arguing. Everyone fears confrontations but there's a way not to let things escalate. You have to be very disciplined about not getting sucked in --and letting go of a need for closure. But I think we have been silenced for too long. It is unwise to participate in self-censorship.

However when there is really no opportunity for interaction, and you get caught in those situations where it's all festering just below the surface...it's a bad feeling. A surreal state. Yes, an out-of-body experience as you say OP. I'm getting used to the emotional roller coaster these days and can now find antidotes. I believe in the antidotes--very important. Staying sane is #1...and that means holding on to the truth you know, regardless of others' reactions.

This is what it's like to be living in bipolar America.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-10-06 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. The thing I know about America is that it is going to END.
All civilizations do. This one will be no exception. But that's usually something people don't like to hear. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC