"Mushroom Drug Produces Mystical Experience"

[GreenPartyVoter]

NEW YORK (AP) - People who took an illegal drug made from mushrooms reported profound mystical experiences that led to behavior changes lasting for weeks - all part of an experiment that recalls the psychedelic '60s.

Many of the 36 volunteers rated their reaction to a single dose of the drug, called psilocybin, as one of the most meaningful or spiritually significant experiences of their lives. Some compared it to the birth of a child or the death of a parent.

Such comments "just seemed unbelievable," said Roland Griffiths of the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in Baltimore, the study's lead author.

But don't try this at home, he warned. "Absolutely don't."

http://apnews1.iwon.com/article/20060711/D8IPIK480.html


I've had a cool experience of that nature without the mushroom. Would love to try it to see if there is a similarity to what I experienced before to the brain chemistry changes the fungus can produce.

[SteppingRazor]

1. Um... so.... people ate mushrooms...

how is this news? People have been doing this for decades. Hell, I've done it more times than I can recall.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Because they are trying to map out in the brain what spiritual experiences

look like chemically and physically.

[SteppingRazor]

7. OK. Read the whole article now....

It still seems kinda silly to me. I mean, yeah, mushrooms can be a really powerful experience but, geez, all you're doing is ingesting a drug and altering your brain's chemistry. How is that truly deeply spiritual, y'know?

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. The point is that spiritual experiences themselves

May be the result of various alterations of brain chemistry. Mushrooms have been adjuncts for inducing such states of consciousness in a number of spiritual traditions. Maybe we're disagreeing on what "spiritual" means here?

[SteppingRazor]

10. Maybe so...

I just figured a "spiritual experience" meant more than gobbling mushrooms and/or LSD and thinking that you're seeing God, when really you've just temporarily warped your brain. Isn't it a false comparison to liken hallucinogenic experience to a spiritual awakening achieved without the use of drugs? Or are such spiritual moments equally a product of the mind confusing itself, thus discounting the possibility of actual spiritual encounters entirely?


(Boy, as an atheist with a fairly lengthy history of hallucinogenic drug use, this is a pretty bizarre argument I find myself making :) )

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. It may be that "hallucinogenic" is itself a misnomer

Gordon Wasson, the man who basically popularized psilocybin mushrooms - which is to say, took them out of their very limited use in Mexican religious rites in the mid-1950's - proposed the term "entheogens" to describe substances such as psilocybin, morning glory seeds, and indeed, even synthesized substances like lysergic acid diethylamide-25 (LSD), precisely because he didn't like the term "psychedelic" or "hallucinogenic." The mistake, for Wasson and numerous other entheogenic researchers, is in thinking that the mind is - as you say - "warped" or "confused" by these substances. That judgment normalizes one state of consciousness over others, implicitly viewing the mind experiencing something like psilocybin as in an abnormal state. This is a prejudice of cultures which value particular states of consciousness. But there's really little bio-chemical warrant for such a judgment (consider that we are in "dream state" for significant portions of each day; the brain produces its own DMT). It may be better to think the mind as a continuum of various states of consciousness. Yes, people are able to induce different states in a number of ways. Humanity has ALWAYS used plant adjuncts to induce such states - without exception in human history, every culture has sought to induce new states of consciousness through chemical modification, particularly through the use of plants. But there are other ways of so inducing other states (meditation, fast, various regimes of the body, like yoga, sensory deprivation, body modifications, dancing, as well as rhetorical exercises, like chanting, singing, etc.). All the techniques of our established religions draw on these methods to one degree or another: the Catholic mass, with its ritualized procedures for establishing set and setting is fairly obvious, however degraded it may be from early versions. The point is that "spiritual experiences" are designed and developed; humans have discovered methods for inducing them. Then the question is WHY? Why do humans do this? But certainly, dismissing plant or chemical adjuncts (like psilocybin or LSD) out of hand is little more than a modern prejudice, and a damn silly one at that.

[SteppingRazor]

13. You make a good point, however...

You say "The mistake, for Wasson and numerous other entheogenic researchers, is in thinking that the mind is - as you say - "warped" or "confused" by these substances. That judgment normalizes one state of consciousness over others, implicitly viewing the mind experiencing something like psilocybin as in an abnormal state."

It seems obvious to me that the mind under the effects of mushrooms or acid is most certainly an "abnormal state." Mind you, I am using abnormal without any negative connotations here. I am simply stating that the thought process under the effects of such drugs is not the same as the normal, everyday thought process. And I don't think anyone would dispute that. So, if one leaves out the negative connotations of the word "abnormal," I think it's perfectly reasonable to state that the brain under the effects of hallucinogens (I'll use the commonly accepted word over entheogens, though I think either is perfectly acceptible) is abnormal when compared to the brain under typical, sober conditions. (i.e. On an average, sober day, the walls aren't breathing and you can look at yourself in the mirror without freaking out. Therefore, the brain behaves differently under the effects of hallucinogens. Therefore, it behaves "abnormally.")

Moving on, certainly, one could argue that humanity has attempted, to again quote you, "meditation, fast, various regimes of the body, like yoga, sensory deprivation, body modifications, dancing, as well as rhetorical exercises, like chanting, singing, etc." in attempts to induce spiritual states. But I think it's terribly fallacious to make the leap that such methods achieve anything even remotely approximating the experience of mushrooms, LSD or any other hallucinogenic substance in my experience.

And so, we are left where I started in my previous post -- attempting to approximate hallucinogens with any other so-called spiritual experience seems a futile task. To the believers, it almost seems insulting. To the nonbelievers, it seems laughable.

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. I guess we'll just have to disagree

Oh well.

[SteppingRazor]

16. Meh, it happens.

:toast:

[bryant69]

2. This is the sort of information we can't post enough

Religious ecstacy = psychedelic mushrooms. There's jsut so many routes to take from it.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[anarch]

3. "Don't try this at home..."

:rofl:


I'd say, rather, don't try this and think you're going to go out on the town. You'll wind up behaving like a total idiot, believe me. Not that that isn't fun, too.

[SteppingRazor]

5. Well, that all depends where you go...

just make sure to go someplace where everybody else is out of their minds as well :evilgrin:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

18. I recommend that you do not go to a bar that...

has walls completely covered with weird shit if it's your first time. Also, do not do them if there's going to be a furniture throwing asshole around.

Other than that, it's fine.

[shain from kane]

6. Can-D. Necessary for my Perky Pat layout. Until something better comes

along ---Chew-Z?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Discussed yesterday

Kindly check this link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1607532

[deaniac21]

11. Tiptoe through the cow dung.....

[Arkansas Granny]

15. But, isn't most grain used in cattle feed now treated with a

fungicide to eliminate the spoors, thus no mushrooms? I'm sure they made a big deal of it when they started treating the grain products around here.

[deaniac21]

17. Apparentaly not in Conway or off the Galloway exit on I-40.

[rustydog]

19. Schrooms! Hey man, Schrooms!

:headbang: