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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 11:04 AM
Original message
Clinton feeds theory of Ohio vote tampering & slams Blackwell
Edited on Tue Jul-11-06 11:16 AM by kpete
Clinton feeds theory of Ohio vote tampering
Refers to Blackwell in telling crowd he shouldn't run election
BY JON CRAIG AND ALLISON D'AURORA | ENQUIRER COLUMBUS BUREAU

COLUMBUS - U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton took a shot at Secretary of State Ken Blackwell of Cincinnati, the Republican candidate for governor, Monday during her third visit to Ohio this year.

Speaking to more than 3,000 people at a national conference of ACORN - the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now - Clinton prompted whoops and hollers by saying, "Let's make sure that we count every vote in our elections.''

Clinton also called for an increase in the minimum wage. If it makes the Ohio ballot Nov. 7, voters will be asked to approve raising it from $5.15 an hour to $6.85.


Referring to presidential races, Clinton said, "This country deserves to have an electoral system that has integrity. I know there's been a problem here in Ohio, and I hope everybody from Ohio is watching this election like a hawk. Don't let them pull anything over your eyes again.''

more at:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060711/NEWS01/607110352
and check out:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=439542&mesg_id=439542
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. and exactly how do we keep an eye on elections
with secret caging lists, vote purges and manipulated voting machines
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neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yeah, pretty much just empty words...
Let's all be sure they don't do the same thing they did in 2000... and let's be sure they don't do the same thing they did in 2000, that they did in 2004 despite the fact that we said before the 2004 elections that we should watch them like hawks to make sure they don't do in 2004 what they did in 2000, and despite all the work and electoral reforms we somehow seemed to think were helping instead of actually making it easier to cheat. Still, "let's be sure to watch them like a hawk", that'll help. They can't pull it off right under our noses, can they? Well, they can, but maybe if we look really, really hard...

And maybe if we all hold hands and wish the same wish... and if those of us who pray, pray... and what if we all chanted, in unison, "we want the elections to be honest and true, we want the elections to be honest and true, we want the elections to be honest and true...". I know, we could all be sure to get some rabbit's feet... and put up signs to remind everyone to cross their fingers! Surely, will all that... plus, of course, we'll all be ready to watch closely... for the few minutes we're inside the polling place...

Hey, are you trying to be funny? I've been trying hard to solve the problem! I've written posts on internet forums! I've donated a few bucks to blackboxvoting.org (or was it verifiedvoting.org). I've thought about trying to figure out who to call and what to ask... I've even begun talking to myself, mumbling things like "they'll steal it again if 'we' don't do something...". Surely there are others who've been more effective... enough to make the difference?

Uh... well, unless you know for certain exactly how the vote will be handled, what mechanisms will be used, how the counts will be accomplished and much more--and have satisfied yourself that the process in your locale will be fair and honest... it probably won't be. Even then, there are tens of thousands of other local electoral offices and hundreds of different approaches, and we've made precious little progress. Without direct, hands-on action in an organized manner across the country (but especially in the most important places where the races in question really are competitive), we are going to "watch closely" as they steal it right out from under our noses--yet again. That is, unless you know for sure your electoral precinct has been sufficiently fraud-proofed as to make it really difficult to get away with anything, and you trust the people running it... I wouldn't count on it turning out honestly. By the way, there is next to nothing you can tell from just "watching", and unless you have a large-scale, trustworthy exit polling system, you probably won't ever know whether it was honest or not. Even if you've managed to get a paper-trail in place, it won't be counted/verified unless there's a certain amount of evidence of a problem--and even that is something that "they" have made all but impossible to prove.

If I had the answer, I'd share, but given the shortness of the time--without considering the general inertia (despite the rhetoric), there's not much chance we'll manage to ensure a major reduction in electoral fraud or misbehavior. There is, however, a slim chance we'll win by enough of a margin in some places that we might exceed the extent to which those behind the fraud are willing or able to shift the numbers...

Hope, it seems, springs eternal.
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I tried here in Maryland but Diebold is too powerful
Edited on Tue Jul-11-06 12:43 PM by MissWaverly
the Diebold machines will remain in place, endorsed by our State Senate, it doesn't matter
that our Gov Ehrlich does not want them or that our State House voted overwhelmingly against
them. One opening and in they come. What we need is an Election Commission across all 50 states, what we need is Democratic challenger that demands a recount and pulls an Obrador until
there is a real recount.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Get a prominent senator to be quoted in the Cincinnati paper
on the subject, for one.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Can't, not with things as they are now. nt.
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Its the shame that state legistatures don't have the guts
to raise the min wage and have to leave it to the voters.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. 4 months before the election and NOW she wants to talk about evoting
machines. It would have been nice had this speech been given 6 years ago. Better late than never. I guess.:( Why aren't the Dems fighting for a paper trail?? Or fighting for paper and a pencil?? I just don't GET IT.
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neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. You point out what is probably THE deepest question...
of all of them. Why aren't the elected Democatic "leaders" doing more? Have they somehow convinced themselves it's all in our heads? Or, more likely, something... else... (but what?)
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Well, before the '04 election, I thought perhaps they had hired the
Edited on Tue Jul-11-06 12:52 PM by in_cog_ni_to
world's best hackers to beat the repukes at their own game. OBVIOUSLY, I was wrong, wrong, wrong. Next, I think they may be using the machines to pick our candidate for us......during the primary, but then what happens during the general election? That doesn't make sense. I'm beginning to think they don't believe us and are afraid of being called "sore losers" by asking questions. They'd rather lose the election than be swiftboated by KKKRove on the evoting issue. None of them have the guts to stand up and fight this thing. It's just pathetic! Paul Wellstone would have fought for our right to vote.:(

Our only hope is that they have decided to beat these bastards at their own game and hired that world famous hacker I thought they hired in '04, but I really doubt it. They don't have the balls.

Bev Harris was going to publish "How to hack into a electronic voting machine" and I HOPE she does. THAT should put the fear into the neo-con election thiefs.
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rniel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. dupe
Edited on Tue Jul-11-06 02:51 PM by rniel
.
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rniel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Just wondering what would happen
Every democrat in the USA tries to become an election official. Wouldn't this help to expose the problem.
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Well phone taps and physical threats fits the BFEE M.O.
Edited on Tue Jul-11-06 04:32 PM by Twist_U_Up
A little blackmail to keep their traps shut and they may allow them to stick around a bit longer.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. we need full auditing otherwise a paper trail means nothing but false
security.

HAND COUNTED PAPER BALLOTS, COUNTED AT THE PRECINCT LEVEL WITH PUBLIC WITNESS AAND VIDEOTAPING ALLOWED!
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. YES! I agree! Why aren't the Dems fighting for that? n/t
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. Didn't think it was such an issue when it was happening.
Hillary got religion finally now that she wants a shot at it?

'Nuf said.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. Jon Craig at the Cinci Enq was the only reporter in OH to cover the RFK Jr
article without a negative spin.

It seems like the RFK Jr article that Bill Clinton commented on earlier was be making serious waves: "Don't let them pull anything over your eyes again.''
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. She had the chance to stand up with B. Boxer and she didn't.
She didn't join with Boxer on contesting Ohio's electoral votes in 2004. Once again Hillary is a day late and a dollar short.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. let the BIG DOG HUNT!!!
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. Good for HRC.
I have no problem and don't resent giving credit where credit is due.

However, until something meaningful is done about election fraud, merely making comments has as much effect as a fart in the breeze.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-11-06 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
20. Well, I'll be.

A thank you to her is in order.

Thanks, Hillary.

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