Who The HELL Builds A TUNNEL With A DROP-CEILING???

[matcom]

local coverage of this tunnel collapse is 24/7. just saw the 6:00 report (been at work all day) and they explained that the tunnel was built with a DROP CEILING! :wtf:

concrete panels held up by metal straps. forget the epoxy shit for a minute. a drop ceiling in a tunnel?

WHY?

[npincus]

the Queens-Midtown tunnel has one (Manhattan- Queens)

I believe the Holland Tunnel does, too (NJ- Manhattan). I don't belive the Lincoln Tunnel does- I'll look next time.

[Dave Reynolds]

1. Bob Vila, host of "This Old Hole".

That does seem like a serious design problem, how much was spent on that hole?

[Schema Thing]

2. Black spies and white spies.

[slackmaster]

3. In light of the Big Dig being one of the greatest boondoggles in history

The answer is not who, but why?

The most likely answer is "To create more work fixing it in the future."

:nuke:

[kiahzero]

4. Wait... the concrete was a drop ceiling?

I'd understand if there was something lighter that was just used to cover up the wiring for the lights and such, in between the structure of the tunnel and the passage. If it is actually a concrete drop ceiling, I second your :wtf:

[matcom]

6. yes. CONCRETE drop ceiling

12 TONS dropped on that car

[MADem]

5. I agree that the material is questionable, but the purpose of the

ceiling may be to lower the total area to make the big fans built into the sides more efficient. It could also be a firewall of sorts, in the event of a car wrecking and exploding. I'm no engineer, so I dunno.

But ya gotta wonder if they might have been better off with some sort of high tech ceramic, like the shit they use on the space shuttle. Might cost more, but if a chunk of that falls off you're not gonna get hit with THREE TONS.

[Warpy]

7. Concrete was cheaper than high tech ceramic

and would do the job you described well. The support system seems to be what failed, and I sincerely hope they go after whatever contractor cut that corner.

There's a lot of stuff living in that ceiling like wiring, ventilation, plumbing for the hydrant connections, and the like. They'd want to protect it all from the eventual vehicle fire.

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. How much water pressure pushes down

on those tunnels? Also moisture is a big issue.

The problem isn't the concrete, it's how it was put up.

[chelsea0011]

9. the same people who built a leaky tunnel

[Skidmore]

10. Some crooked contractor trying to cut corners and pocket

profits. I hope they nail this company to the wall. But, wait...can they even be sued any more after the Congress has sliced and diced the court system.

[mzteris]

14. didn't the guy in charge of the project

get appointed by bush to something major?

I can't remember his name...

[Cronus Protagonist]

11. Well, it did drop....

Sad, and kindof more than a little sardonic, I know.



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[wordpix2]

12. where's the link to this story? No coverage here in CT

[TankLV]

13. The real question is who would build a ceiling out of CONCRETE PANELS

suspended by STEEL WIRE that is subject to RUST in an UNDERWATER TUNNEL that is leaking profusely!

A "drop ceiling" is in and of itself not a bad solution - but it is usually a metal decorative ceiling or a ceiling that has a ceramic tile finish. It's done all the time to hide imperfections, make it easier to clean, etc.

It's the CONCRETE SUSPENDED BY JUST WIRE STRAPS that has me and other engineers scratching our heads in disbelief.

Can we speel "corruption" and "graft"?

[mzteris]

15. Bechtel and Andrew Natsios

***Another interesting plotline in the story of Bechtel’s contract coup is the company’s relationship with the current head of USAID, Andrew Natsios. As chairman of the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority in 2000-2001, Natsios worked closely with Bechtel on Boston’s "Big Dig" construction project—Bechtel was and is the project’s principle contractor. In the 1980s, Bechtel estimated the Big Dig’s price tag would be $2.5 billion. Since then the cost has ballooned by more than 560% to over $14 billion due in large part to Bechtel mismanagement and the lack of state oversight of its work. When Natsios took over the Turnpike Authority, he promised to rein in the overruns. He worked with Bechtel to renegotiate its Big Dig contract, and succeeded in reducing their management fees. But Natsios permitted the Bechtel team to continue to review and evaluate their own work, basically changing little. During Natsios’ tenure, the cost estimate of the Big Dig continued to rise. A few months after he left for his post at USAID, $300 million more in cost overruns were announced. Natsios denies allegations that he gave preferential treatment to Bechtel for the Iraq reconstruction contract. **** http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2003/0703tavares.html


****Bechtel is also the subject of a review ordered by Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts over its handling of the nation's largest urban transit construction project in Boston. Known as the "Big Dig" for the giant, 10-lane tunnel it aims to install under city streets, the project, contracted to Bechtel and construction firm Parsons Brinkerhoff in 1985, is currently about $1.6 billion over budget. State oversight of the project was taken over in 2000 by former Massachusetts Secretary for Administration and Finance Andrew Natsios, who left that post to become director of USAID.

Updates
As of March 31, 2004
On January 6, 2004, USAID awarded the second major Iraq reconstruction contract to Bechtel. The Iraq Infrastructure II contract has a total value of up to $1.8 billion; work is scheduled to continue through December 2005. Bechtel's previous reconstruction contract extends through December 2004. It was not disclosed how much Bechtel stands to gain from the Iraq II contract, but USAID told the San Francisco Chronicle that it would not exceed 10 percent of the total value. The company will be working with California-based Parsons and Horne Engineering Services of Fairfax, Virginia. ****
http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/bio.aspx?act=pro&ddlC=6