Is it abuse/neglect when....

[Occulus]

....your parents know you have a talent... and let you go your whole childhood without cluing you in?

....when you're allowed to feel like you can;t do anything right your whole childhood?

....when they side with other kids around you when you try to defend your sibling's stuff from getting stolen?

....when they chase you down on your bike to tell you they volunteered you into work without your knowledge?

....when one of your parents threatens to slam the piano lid down on your fingers if you keep playing during their soaps?

....when you're refused piano lessons after helping to pay for a piano?

....when they try to keep you from getting your paycheck from work?

....when they kick you out of the house for being gay?

....when they stop helping you pay for college for the same reason?

....when they continue to tear you apart as an adult for helping your frineds out of bad situations?

....when they give your sibling, free and clear, tens of thousands of dollars worth of child care- but demand every red cent of payment from you for getting an infected wisdom tooth pulled?

....when they make friends of another parent bring you back from another state when you're stranded there?

....when they visit your place of residence twelve times in a span of as many years- despite living not twenty miles away?

And my final question: how might all these things, added together in one person's life, affect them as an adult?

(I'm glossing over a LOT of other things... this is only what's fresh in my mind, the things that stick out, as it were.)

Does the above represent abuse/neglect? Just how bitter am I allowed to be? And how the HELL do I heal?

Sorry. Having a bad night......

[uppityperson]

1. Hard to let it go sometimes, isn't it?

Sounds like a hard group to love, or at least want to have much to do with. Accept that for some reason this is how it is, things aren't fair. It is ok to not see them. Take care of yourself. It can be quite difficult to do, hoping you can find peace somehow, sometime, within yourself as that is all you can do. And you never have to see them again if you don't want.

[Occulus]

5. The ONLY reason I treat her civilly

is because I want the house when she's gone. I've lived in apartments since that disaster I spoke of, and I feel like I'm treading water.

Living in or selling that house would make ALL the difference. I can't "make it" on my own; she and my dad ripped apart what I was trying to "make it" with, and that was the only thing I had to offer, then or since.

I haven't been able to get back into music, and I doubt I ever will. At this point- I don't even want to listen to the radio anymore. I'm THAT hurt.

[MuseRider]

9. My brother

and I both turned out to be musicians. It was the only thing that got us through until we were old enough to leave the house for good. You might want to try it again? Don't hurt yourself, you are worth far more than what you have been given to believe by your mother.

[Occulus]

14. See, that's my very deepest wound

Both my mother and father- and several people around them- knew I had musical talent when I was very young- as early as five years old.

i was 'different' from everyone around me because of that. Both my parents admitted that thought about getting me violin lessons when I was five... but they decided I "couldn't handle the pressure."

Funny... they ALSO decided I could handle the pressure of playing sports alongside my peers, even though I regularly made a fool of myself just by trying.

They knew. By their own admission, they knew, the whole time, that I had musical talent and not athletic talent... but they did nothing, preferring to let me go through my childhood thinking I couldn't do anything right. Then, once I figured it out for myself, and became a DAMN fine young musician (oboe, self-taught piano- to the point of playing Gershwin pieces from memory, without a lesson one- percussion, flag, rifle, voice, composition, stage musicals, and even more I don't care to list), they pulled the rug out.

It was all I was ever any good at. And after twelve years away from it... I've lost what talent I had, and I've spent a lot of that time trying to find something else... which hasn't worked.

I honestly feel like I have nothing to offer any more. Nothing worth taking, anyway.

Is there any way I can make that bitch pay for what she's done? Any way at all? Because after this many years of trying to repair the damage, being unsuccessful, and having yet more damage get inflicted by her... I want a teeny tiny bit of fucking retribution.

Yes, I do want revenge on my bitch-mom, for destroying me so completely, and yes, I want that cunt to feel it until her dying fucking day.

Is that wrong?

[MuseRider]

19. YIKES!

I would normally alert on this post because of one of your word choices but this time I am going to let that go. I can feel your pain sitting here in my living room. I know your pain, been there. All I can offer is what worked for me so make of it what you will. I have already told you most of it.

Retribution? You bet you can but you have to be able to let some of this go or you will never get far enough past the anger to succeed and I mean that knowing how difficult that is. That does not mean to make nice or try to forget. You have to find a peaceful place within yourself. Nobody can do it but you and it is work when you feel this much pain and anger. You own those and you earned them by living what they put you through. Now it is time to use them. Believe me when I tell you that if you work at it you will come out so very strong and still be able to live a sweet, compassionate, successful life.

Your retribution is to make yourself happy. Getting back may be a short lived wonderful feeling and is not the best motive to have. Your motive needs to be yourself and your life, making it as good as it can be. Change your motive. Make yourself the motive, that is what it should be and by doing so you will become stronger and things will be possible but by doing that you will show her that she was wrong. What could be better than that? If you want to hurt her, well all I can say is think about that. You sound like you would not want to hurt anyone but if you want to get to her and really get to her make her wrong.

Talent does not go away you are just very rusty. If you had it once you have never lost it. You know what you need to do, hit the woodshed and practice. It will come back. Meditate, calm yourself and practice. The hours will go by before you know it and you will have even more peace available to you.

I wish I really knew what I was talking about, enough to help you anyway, but this is what worked for me. It will not come quickly and it is a lot of work but it is worth it. My mother died relatively young but I had enough time to prove myself to both of us. It really galled her and it was all I needed, just enough to prove her wrong. BTW, my brother REALLY proved it to her and my youngest brother, the golden child, turned out to be a drug addict. She really blew it didn't she?

[MADem]

42. Yep, that's wrong. Here's the one thing that your parents did right

They had you.

Now, you can take the lessons you learned from your shitty childhood and crummy parents and maybe use them to help someone else.

But damn, you gotta talk this out with someone. Comes a time when you just have to LET IT GO. Once you hit eighteen, if there's no meeting of the minds, just turn your back and go elsewhere. Don't beat yourself up if there is no connection, it happens sometimes.

Create a family more to your liking, of good friends.

Parents aren't required to GOOD at the parenting thing. They don't issue licenses to have kids in this country (yet, anyway).

But you gotta let it go. You're wasting YOUR life wallowing in that shit.

[Occulus]

47. Well... here's the crowning glory:

I was adopted. They knew both my biological parents were musically talented.

Please believe me when I say, if I knew then what I know now, I would have walked away that night without a second glance, and never spoken to either of them again.

[MADem]

57. Well, if you want to be a musician, you need to start taking some lessons.

Throw yourself into it. And don't give me that "I'm too old" crap. If you breathe, you aren't too old. Grandma Moses didn't start painting until she was a geezer.

I'm telling you, that kind of stress is a killer. Remove yourself from it, realize you can't change what has happened to this point, and resolve to meet life on your own terms henceforth.

Life has no guarantees. And it is SHORT.

Don't waste precious time focusing on assholes. Look for the good people, and associate with them.

[uppityperson]

12. if you want revenge...

get back into music, enjoy it and do it well. That will show them. Best revenge is a good life.

[Occulus]

17. But that's what I WAS doing....

...and I really don't want to do it all that much any more.

It was a complete waste of time. I never should have even tried.

(WTF am I supposed to say? EVERY SINGLE GOOD MEMORY I HAD turnd sour! I can't even listen to the radio anymore without getting choked up!!)

[MuseRider]

22. Can I say this?

I don't want to make you angry but this post sounds like your mother has won. Do NOT let her be the winner here. Of course you should have tried, it was not a waste of time.

At one point in my life I just said to myself, "Fuck it. I had NO childhood, I was miserable and beaten to a pulp for most if it. It was shitty and I no longer care to remember it or let it change what I want to do."

Start to create new memories starting now. That old stupid phrase, "Today is the first day of the rest of your life" really does apply here.

God I hurt for you and wish I could help you but this is your deal here and I don't want you to fail yourself.

[Occulus]

30. I understand what you're saying, and I do appreciate it,

but something I need to make clear is... all those years I spent rehearsing and practicing and performing came at a huge expense, both in terms of self-respect- I was constantly being made fun of FOR being talented, by the people around me, NOT just my parents- AND in terms of time: ALL the things 'normal' kids were doing, I couldn't or wouldn't do, because I was so focused on what I wanted to do in the future, that I really didn't have TIME to just... be a kid.

I was focused on what I wanted to do with the rest of my life from the time I was a freshman in high school. I knew what I was going to do with my life, and it was just that simple. "I can do anything if I put my mind to it."

Oh, what a lie. I'll never tell that to anyone. It just isn't true.

NOW it's a matter of time. Believe me, I've looked into the rehearsal and performance schedules of literally every performing group in my area, and there aren't any that cater to someone who works second shift. All the rehearsals are when I'm working, as are the concerts. As I said, I have debts to pay off, so what that means is, I won't be able to do what you suggest for some years yet, if EVER. And even though I hbave ten or twelve years in at my job, it's still at least that long again before I can get a day shift job!

And THIS is the job my mom found for me, which makes every single day a triumph for her, whether I will it or no. I'm DYING inside. Honestly. You were more on the mark than you knew when you said 'she won', especially considering I was living with her and my dad at the time this job was published in the newspaper- and the ONLY reason I took it in the first place was out of fear of what they might do to me if I didn't!

They had already made me homeless once, and let me GO homeless the following year. What was I to do, living under their roof- say NO?

I don't feel like I have any choice but to give up on that particular dream. It's what I was good at, I threw my heart and soul into it... but maybe it just wasn't meant to be.

I'd like it to be different. Really I would. I'd give both my legs to change it, but the opportunity just isn't there anymore.

While she writes a check for a new car every couple years. Note: I'm not financially struggling.... I only want the damage repaired to the point that I can go do something else with my life. But for all the preaching she AND my dad gave me through the years about "making up" for the things I did wrong, neither of them did one jot of anything to make up for what they did.

And that burns. Like acid. 13th in my graduating class, both NHS cord, a 27 on the ACT, no criminal record, more music awards than I can count... what the hell did I get out of all that?

A job a highschool dropout could do. A job I absolutely have hated since the day I took it. This, before the job market went to shit. Honestly- what am I supposed to think?

(I'm venting, here. I hope you realize this... like I said, I've has a bad day.)

[MuseRider]

39. Well,

I am no therapist and I don't know if anything any of us say can help you. Please know that we do understand and if I could I would help but I am just me.

You are stuck in many ways. For you the best would be to get out from under all of that but it seems you can't right now.

Is there any place you can go, a support group or a therapist who could at least help you find peace with your situation so you can get through it?

One thing I do see is that the only thing you can do now makes you feel like shit and that is an awful place to be.

Somehow you have to be able to see yourself for who you are not who they think you are and I mean everyone else. Who are you? Who do you want to be now? How can you get there under these circumstances? I know that is what you are trying to do. Write it down? Make lists? Set goals? I did all those things and at one point they actually helped but it took a while.

One other suggestion that might help you find peace with yourself so you can at least think without all the pain. I mentioned meditation before. My youngest son just told me about a book with a CD that has helped him tremendously. It is about music but also self fulfillment and can be used for anything. The CD is great, guided meditation for those of us who are novices. It is called Effortless Mastery by Kenny Werner. It might be too painful since it has exercises with your instrument but if you could play for yourself you might enjoy that (perhaps not, I read how it makes you feel at this time). There are others but I don't know them. Seriously, it is all about believing in yourself for performance in everything from music to life.

Vent away. Sometimes that is the only thing that will clear your mind. The fact that you feel you are dying inside, that is so painful to all of us knowing it is that bad. We have been there to some extent but that does not help you. I wish there was more to offer you over the net but know I and others are thinking about you and pulling for you. :hug: Wish I knew something about this and could offer more than what worked for me.

[Occulus]

40. To be honest, I want to avoid anything having to do with music in any

technical manner. I didn't say thid before, but.... when I was 17 or 18, I got an IOU as a birthday "gift" to get the piano tuned.

It's still not tuned. NOW I have to move it into my place first... the which my mom knows won't happen, because I can't afford to move the thing every few years.

If I had a house, it would be different, but I haven't ever wanted to be tied down with owning a home, and I know as soon as I can get out of the job I have now, to go back to school, I'm gone... and owning a home would throw a wrench into all of that.

I do have another interest now- computer modeling/animation- but I'm nowhere near as proficient with that as I was in music. It's the difference between an inborn talent and a chosen talent, and for the latter, I have to go to school. Which means clearing my debts, and moving to a place that teaches it as soon as I can... which means I have to have nothing tying me down.

I do have a plan, but it's been several years working to the point I can put it into motion, and several more years until I can do it professionally, by which time, I'll probably be in my forties- and starting my FIRST "career". In a field in which most people are in their early twenties.

I might get ten years out of this "dream", tops, by the time I get the training I need.

That, after knowing I had a talent I could do "something" with, from my early teens.

A HELL of a note, by anyone's standards...

[MuseRider]

44. I don't know

there is nothing wrong with being a bit older, I mean who says you have to do it earlier? Seriously, it may not be the perfect scenario but it is yours and that is wonderful.

Good for you. This makes me feel better (not that that is very important) knowing you are doing this.

Being old enough to be your mother I can think of lots of old sayings that apply here and you would probably laugh and roll your eyes (whippersnapper) so I will refrain. ;)

It is hard to let a dream go but someday, when you are getting closer to where you want to be you just might have a hankering to take it up again if only for yourself so keep it there. This pain will fade if you work on it, really it will. As stupid as that sounds you will be a survivor. Someday when your mother is old and you have to visit you can walk in the door happy and successful. Don't be surprised if she does not try to claim responsibility for that but you don't have to let her. Own it and let her know then that you did it for yourself and by yourself in spite of her. Maybe by then you won't even need to do that, you will know it and so will she. Some people are just bad and dysfunctional.

Find some peace. I will be thinking about you.

Edit to add smilie!

[MuseRider]

2. I would say yes.

It sounds a lot like how I grew up. I was worthless because I was female but my brother was worthless because he was gay although he never told them that.

Therapy helped but mostly just shining it on helped the most. At some point you must just allow yourself to know that they just did not understand or they were cruel. YOU are a good person and all of that....

It is easy for me to say this now after all these years but keep trying to let it go. It can't be changed now but you know who you are and it is not what they thought or think now. You can make your life good again, you really can but it might take some help at some point.

:hug: I know that seems pointless from an internet stranger but from everything I have read from you I do think you are a very good person. Let yourself believe that. Bad nights will come and go and bitter seems pretty understandable in your case.

Have you tried meditation? It is very helpful.

[Occulus]

3. Should I expose her behavior, to the rest of the family?

Like at Christmas, or something, when there are LOTS of people there to hear it all?

She is very much a sociopathic personality. To meet her, and talk for an hour, you would never believe I'm telling the truth. And she treats everyone BUT me like GOLD.

:wtf:

Seriously.

:wtf:

[EFerrari]

4. They probably already know.

:)

You might be surprised.
Good luck.

[Occulus]

6. Funny how none of them have ever said anything, if that's the case... n/t

[EFerrari]

8. Sometimes people think if they don't talk about something

then it won't hurt.

I'd try to figure out who is in your corner. If they're not, you don't them.

[MuseRider]

7. Would it help?

Probably not. I think it is probably obvious to everyone else. If not they would just think you were being a jerk and that would not help at all.

Have you ever read The Dance Of Anger by Harriet Goldhor Lerner? http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/102-7744237-9121700?search-alias=aps&keywords=The%20Dance%20Of%20Anger I would suggest it to you. It really helps give you the upper hand with abusive parents. It gives you the power and helps to change this kind of behavior (dance). It is hard to do but I can tell you it does work to some extent. My mother never really changed but she certainly stopped what she was doing, at least temporarily and it really pissed her off when I would no longer take the crap she was dishing out. It was actually quite fun for me ;).

[eleny]

11. Living a happy life is the best revenge

Finding joy in your life, the holiday, the moment and just being happy with the rest of your family might be something to think about. I'd even fake it to fry their wires. Chances are she/they aren't going to change so why should you? You deserve to have nice days, holidays and a life without those negative people being at the center of your life on earth.

If you're around them and they get nasty, walk away. Do something to take yourself out of the immediate situation. People like that can suck the life out of a room and you. You deserve so much more than that just because.

I sincerely hope you can start thinking about reeling back the control that nasty people hold over you. They could be gone tomorrow - in a heart beat. Then what? So, might as well think about how it would feel to be free of their judgments. And then try to hang on to that feeling in the clinches.

Sociopaths are always a challenge and often completely hopeless. They don't see any point of view but their own.

:hug:

[Occulus]

15. Honestly, they took the only joy I had out of life.

The only thing I had to offer was what they were well-aware of from the time I was very young, and they crushed it. I've been trying to find something to fill the void I've had inside me all these years, and nothing comes close. Unfortunately, I have debts, and have to keep my current job until they're gone- and I work afternoons without weekends off, which renders any sort of professional career in music completely out of the question.

All I ever wanted to do was teach. Specifically because I knew there were kids out there whose parents didn't give a piss in a high wind about their ability.

Ironic, no?

[eleny]

18. If you have a yen to teach...

Maybe you could volunteer somewhere when you do have the free time for yourself. I don't know where you live, so that may be a presumptuous suggestion. Big cities always offer that opportunity. Small towns and rural areas offer less.

It sounds like you have a lot of work to do. I sincerely hope you can find that first small step. Only you can take it.

[Occulus]

36. I wanted to, back then...

...but now...... I wouldn't make a very good techer of anything. As evidenced by this thread, I have too many things to sort out.

And even that is painful as hell, because I know beyond a doubt that there are kids out there in the exact same situation that I could have helped, had I been in the position to do so.

Believe me, that's a piece of hell in itself. I wanted to inspire people who were in the same situation as I was, but now I can't, and am no longer the sort of person who could, even if I had the work schedule that I would need to have to make it happen.

They changed me, and not for the better, and that hurts as much as anything else.

[pitohui]

48. i have a suggestion or at least a little poem for your amusement

if what is holding you back is the debt, why don't investigate bankruptcy so that you can start over?

one of my closest friends declared bankruptcy twice in the pursuit of his dreams and yet today is he is v. successful and well-to-do

i had the opposite of you, as music lessons were forced on me as a kid but parents screw up, that's what they do, as the poet said, it's no use dwelling on it and reading books abt it and plotting ways to embarrass mom at the family xmas party

this is actually a famous poem in england, by their beloved philip larkin, called "this be the verse," perhaps you can get a smile from it

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

[radwriter0555]

10. Of course it is. But you can't let them define who you are. You're the one

who has to continue to define who you are. Let what they did make you stronger and more resilient, and make sure you don't make the same mistakes on your own children, for sure.

Don't let your past define who you are. Make sure your past leaves you with only lessons and not consequences.

The thing is, you're an adult now and as such, you're now in complete control of your life and you're the only one responsible for how you feel, how you think, what you do and how you react to and in this life...

Make sure you get some talk it out therapy to get past the anger, and MAKE SURE YOU GET PAST THE ANGER. And, as soon as you can, forgive them. You don't have to like them or even stay in contact with them or even tell them or get any closure with them directly, but you must forgive them and move on as soon as you can.

Stop letting them dictate your feelings. You're the only one with the power to let it all go... and you will soon enough. I wish you the best, you had it pretty good compared to me. It's hard to forget about them and to let them stop ruining your adult life, but you can... I know you can.

(((((BIG HUGS))))))

[Viva_La_Revolution]

13. Toxic people

Sometimes it's a very good thing they don't visit often.

:hug:

[CoffeeCat]

16. I come from a family like this...

...and yes, I understand how painful it is and how crazy it can make you feel.

First off, you have every right to be upset about these things. Your mother sounds hurtful and very controlling. Of course you are angry and upset. Anyone would be.

You asked if these things were "abuse/neglect." I think any therapist would tell you that if something hurt you or tore at your self esteem--then yes, it was abusive to you.

Please remember that emotional and mental abuse are just as painful as physical and sexual abuse. I was abused physically, emotionally and sexually and I can tell you that the controlling, emotional abuse was the most painful of my memories. I remember that my mother made ceramic lamps for all of my siblings. She arrived home from her class and I was so excited because I hadn't gotten a lamp and I assumed tonight would be my night. My mother snapped at me, "You don't DESERVE ONE!" when I asked about my lamp. I'll never forget that and it hurt like hell.

I didn't mean to make this about me. I just want you to understand that a controlling, manipulating parent who can't nurture and care--is devastating. It can really hurt and YES it is abusive.

Have you read, "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward? I HIGHLY recommend this book. She discusses emotional/psychological abuse and how serious it is. I think you would find a great deal of validation from this book. The reviews on Amazon.com would probably be healing and helpful too!

I wish you the best. This is not easy. My parents pulled many of the same shenanigans as yours. I understand your list! You didn't deserve to be treated this way as a child, or as an adult--and I am sorry that your parents did these things.

There is hope and there is healing. It sounds like you're facing some of your anger and dealing with the truth about your past. That is healthy and a VERY positive thing. Of course, the dysfunctionals in your family will think that you're being difficult and emotional. Mine always claimed that I was "too sensitive." Don't let them dictate how you heal or the reality you live in. If you have some anger to work through--give yourself permission to work through it so you can heal. Make no apologies and don't second guess yourself.

Take care of you.

[eleny]

20. I just need to say...

You're really terrific. People can feel what they want to say but you said it all so clearly.

Anyone in a bad situation with cruel people can take what you said to heart. It can be in a family, a neighborhood or at work. Pure good advice from the heart.

[CoffeeCat]

23. Thanks Eleny...

...that was really sweet.

You always come through on DU as such a compassionate, thoughtful person--and
your nice comments meant a lot to me!

:)

[MuseRider]

21. That is a very good book.

Good suggestion, I wish I had had it before both of my parents were gone.

I like your post.

[CoffeeCat]

24. Thanks MuseRider...

for your nice comments.

I am glad I read many books, including Toxic Parents, while my parents were around. Ironically, all of that reading (and three years of therapy) caused me to cut them out of my life. I haven't spoken with them in three years.

If you had read "Toxic Parents", while they were alive, do you think it would have changed your relationship with them--or how you managed your relationship with them? Answer only if you feel comfortable. If you don't, that's totally cool.

I'm always intrigued by how others handle the challenges of dysfunctional parents.

[MuseRider]

26. Don't know if that one

would have but the one I recommended above, "The Dance Of Anger" did help a lot. My father was dead long before that time, he was the physical guy of the two, but it really set my mother back on her heals.

I have no problem talking about it, continued therapy I guess. There is no one left to care anyway, I have outlived them all.

There is nothing more painful than to realize as an adult that you were never really loved or cared for as a child. The OP is killing me.

[CoffeeCat]

28. I remember not wanting to read...

..."The Dance of Anger." Someone recommended it to me and I started it and decided that I wasn't ready to give up my anger. My anger was the cork that kept all of the true emotion inside--namely profound sorrow.

As you said so eloquently, realizing that you were never really loved or cared for as a child is so painful. When I read that, I could feel my stomach sink.

I guess that's the bottom line with adult children from dysfunctional families. As children, we couldn't possibly cope--knowing how incapable and abusive our parents were. However, as adults--therapy helps us to understand and come to terms with the notion that we were surrounded by people who were unfit parents.

We are all amazing...really. We survived, we are here and we are not silent. It may still hurt to think about--but ultimately, we won. We understand abuse. We can talk about it and even hurt about it. Abusive people are steeped in denial and they live half lives.

We're living fully. It may not always feel pretty, but we emerged as whole human beings. We climbed the mountain and we'll keep climbing and that's something to really celebrate.

:)

[MuseRider]

34. How wonderfully said!

It is incredibly painful but getting past it to live fully is an amazing thing, you are so right about that.

It really never stops hurting. You never stop wondering what you might have been able to do in other circumstances. The potential you had was squandered right when you should have been going strong. Sad sad sad.

I have very few memories. My therapist wanted to bring them all out and deal with them but I had enough and no longer felt the need to get all the way to the bottom. My brother, before he died, told me a few things I had put away and it and his death put me down for a long time. Just now I feel back to my new normal and strong once again.

It made me a better parent I think because I knew what I did not want to do to my kids. Funny how that worked. It has also made me a very strong woman and that is a very good thing.

Cheers to you and everyone else who survived. I hope the OP is reading all of this and it helps him see that there is lots of hope. I don't think that any of us could have gotten through it without some help.

BTW, I did not come upon the Dance of Anger until I was about 40 so I was ready to give up the anger. I can see when I think back that I probably would not have been ready before that.

The most profound thing that my therapist ever said to me was this. Once I was making excuses saying that my parents just did not know any better. He stopped me, looked me in the eyes and said simply, "Bullshit". Stopped me in my tracks and did me a world of good to know that someone else really saw it for what it was.

[RandomKoolzip]

25. No.

A profoundly unsatisfying and psychically painful upbringing, for sure, but it's not "abuse" in the strictest sense.

[Occulus]

33. Okay then... what is, if that's not? n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

27. Here's my advice: Fuck 'em.

My parents made me independent through behavior that might make other people bitter.

Practical example of how I dealt with it; they learned about my wedding date by getting one of the invitations. They have a right to disapprove, but they don't have a right to interfere. That's the arrangement.

In my adult life, they visited my home maybe five times. They've passed away now, but I could have lost a lot of sleep over the topic if I'd surrendered to it.

It sounds harsh, but lots of orphans get along just fine. You're a grownup and you don't need them. Relationships which are not mutually satisfying should be dropped, and I don't make an exception for family.

Oh, and our 24th anniversary is September. :)

[Toucano]

29. I'm very sorry all that happened.

You're going to be okay.

I'm not an expert, but I think forgiveness is important for healing. I would probably try to recognize that they didn't know any better when you were a child, and they don't know any better today. They're quasi-retarded.

Then I'd try to have as little contact as possible. They're not a positive force in your life, so you can't be exposed to them often.

Best wishes, dear.

[Ferry Fey]

37. Some of what forgiveness is

And understand that forgiveness does not mean you're saying what they did was okay, or forgetting it. It means that you're letting go from your end of the anger and pain that bind you to those old hurts. Like dropping that live power line that you are holding in your hand.

I remember advising a friend that she shouldn't burn all her bridges. That was, of course, before one of my relatives turned very toxic, and I realized how I needed to get that space from my relative.

One of my parents was hard to have when I was a kid. It's funny how it has changed since I became a parent. I as an adult now see so clearly that what problems he has are those of a little boy who just didn't grow up in so many ways. It doesn't make me want to have my kids be alone with him, but I do feel compassion for him.

[blogslut]

31. There comes a time

when you just have to let it go or it will eat you alive. They will control you as long as you let them. It's time to mold your own future out of new clay.

[prolesunited]

32. Whatever they did is done

You're the one chosing to wallow in it now. Ask yourself what benefit you get from hanging on to this pain?

I'm not going to discuss what happened in my family during my childhood in public, but I will say it was both physical and emotional abuse. Did it fuck me up for awhile? Sure. But, you can't let the past define your future. Life sucks sometimes and you move on, or you can opt to let it destroy you as you obviously have. The only way I was able to find peace was to forgive them in my heart for what happened. Fucked up people do fucked up things. That doesn't mean I forgot or think that it was OK, but at some point you have to let it go. Forgiveness is something you do for yourself.

It no longer matters what they did then. All that matters now is what you chose to do for the rest of your life.

[Occulus]

38. You must have gotten therapy early on

I didn't.

Thanks for telling me WHAT to do. Now, would you mind telling me HOW to do it? Because that's the piece I'm missing.

What's worked for other people hasn't ever worked for me. I don't know if it's ME that's the problem, or just that nobody really understand how hurt I really am.

I'm thinking it's the latter. I'm completely destroyed inside. I had exactly one thing to offer, and the people closest to me, the ones who told me I could do anything if I put my mind to it, the ones who told me they would be there to support me in whatever I chose to do with my life... they're the ones who ruined it all, and left me holding a handful of ashes.

Don't mention therapy. I can't trust... anyone. Period. Everyone I've ever given trust to has stabbed me in the back.

To be honest... you sound exactly like my mom. In case you didn't know, that's the most base insult I can throw.

Edited to add: my mom has said to me, word for word, some of the things in your post. That's why I said what I did.

[blogslut]

41. sigh

I was like you. Then I got some help and got better. It took me ten damned years and a lot of hard work, but I got better.

You can too but there's not a therapist in the world that will do the work for you. Nobody is going to swoop down and make it all okay except you, when you finally get so sick of feeling crappy.

I hope you try.

[prolesunited]

45. Actually, no, I never did have therapy

And, guess what, my parents kicked me out of the house when I needed them most, too. I do remember that pain and curling up in a fetal position for awhile and letting the darkness consume me.

But, at some point, you have to make a conscious choice to move on. You either decide to let it destroy you or you try to rebuild your life. It doesn't happen overnight. At first, you just go through the motions. Get out and get some exercise. Talk to some new people. Purse something you're interested in. Try helping others at a shelter or nursing home. Get out of yourself and your own head.

In time, it becomes easier and then one day, you're smiling. In a little more time, you feel happiness. Then, in my case, I met the most wonderful man and he helped me break through those final walls and learn how to fully trust and love again. None of that would have happened had I chosen to torture myself with the past and not move on from it. None of that would have taken place had I chosen to remain tortured and stuck in the past. I'm happier now than I ever thought possible.

But, I guess it is easier to blame others for your pain and that way you don't have to take responsibility for yourself and do anything to fix it. It's your choice.

Think of the people who survived the Holocaust. Can what you suffered in any way compare to the horrors they endured? But, most of them moved on and put that pain behind them.

Read a truly inspiring story here:
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,389491,00.html

This touched me the most:
The American real estate agent today, though, is certain that she did the right thing. "I felt as though an incredibly heavy weight of suffering had been lifted," she says. "I never thought I could be so strong." She says that because she was able to forgive her worst enemies, she was finally able to free herself from her victim status. But, she is quick to add, forgiveness does not mean forgetting. "What the victims do does not change what happened," she says. But every victim has the right to heal themselves as well as they can. "And the best thing about the remedy of forgiveness," she says, "is that there are no side effects. And everybody can afford it."

Tomorrow is a new day. What reality will you chose to create?

[Susang]

50. Hope he listens to you

You know of what you speak. ;-)

One addition though; nobody can kill your love of music or art or acting, whatever your passion happens to be. You make the choice to give up or continue on doing what you love. Some of the most successful artists I know thrive on criticism and rejection. It only steels their resolve to make it in spite of the people who don't support them, just so they can laugh in their faces. Maybe not such a noble goal, but it's a lot better than wallowing in self-pity for the rest of your life.

What's that great Eleanor Roosevelt quote? "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." I can't argue with that logic.

[fudge stripe cookays]

59. Nice.

She tries to offer you some advice and you insult her (making sure to tell her in no uncertain terms how deep the insult is, in case she didn't get it).

I had problems with my mom. She's a bitch. She once threatened to kill me. I cut her out of my life as much as possible. End of story. It's not easy but I deal with it. With no therapy.

You know, there are people out there who were far worse off than you. Physical abuse, the social services system, foster homes, etc.

Sorry you went through what you went through, but just because someone does not agree with you is not a reason get nasty.

[arwalden]

60. ~~

<< She tries to offer you some advice and you insult her (making sure to tell her in no uncertain terms how deep the insult is, in case she didn't get it). >>

I know. :eyes: That one really left my head shaking too.

<< Sorry you went through what you went through, but just because someone does not agree with you is not a reason get nasty. >>

I don't know anything about the OP, but for some folks being nasty like that gives them some sense of control. It's easier to shove people away (even those who are trying to help) than it is to accept advice (or even to politely *consider* the advice).

I've known folks who remind me of the OP and in *their* case, their unhappiness was their OWN creation. They wouldn't grow up and accept the reality of the past, they wouldn't move on. I guess their bitterness was too important to them to let go of it.

[alittlelark]

35. You forgot the best one... telling you that you are possessed by a demon

When you try to talk to it it doesn't answer.... eventually you realize that the parent was FULL OF SHIT.


That's always fun.

[pitohui]

43. well you're obviously not their favorite kid

i'm not either if it makes you feel any better

it was so bad that years later, when i was around 30, my dad actually phoned me and apologized for the favoritism -- altho he mostly apologized for my mom's obvious favoritism, heh

the best revenge is growing up and living your own life and if they don't like it, they can't do feck all except grumble

:-)

[Occulus]

46. Thanks to everyone who responded

I needed to hear all of this. Really.

[shanti]

49. yes, it's abusive

but let it go, man. it will make you sick and eat you up if you let it. the healing is for YOU. don't give them that power.

let it GO. :hug:

[Hippo_Tron]

51. It's hard for me to imagine parents that just won't listen

Because I have ones that do. But I know that if they didn't at least listen to what I had to say and let me at least try to convince them that I was right, then there is no way that I could fathom getting along with them or even believe that they loved me, for that matter.

What I can say is that people who have real life obstacles tend to make much better music.

[renate]

52. YES it's abuse and neglect

But don't give them any power over the rest of your life. THEY DON'T DESERVE TO HAVE IT.

[Hekate]

53. Find a good therapist and learn how to heal. Find loving friends.

And walk away from your toxic origins.

None of this is easy, but you deserve to be happy and you deserve to be loved. You deserve to be free.

In the meantime, I recommend almost any book by the following authors: Jack Kornfield, Pema Chodron, and Thich Nhat Hanh.

Jack Kornfield's A Path With Heart was recommended to me by my therapist (we call this "bibliotherapy" :-) ). He has also written The Art of Forgiveness, Lovingkindness, and Peace, a small and lovely book.

Thich Nhat Hanh's Be Free Where You Are is a tiny book based on teachings he gave at a men's prison in the US, but it applies to all of us.

All three are wise and compassionate teachers, with a deep understanding of human pain and how to heal it.

Copy this for yourself, recite, and repeat as necessary. My husband gave it to me one night when I was tormented over something I could not change; I wrote it on a Post-It note and stuck it on the frame of my computer monitor:

May I be filled with loving-kindness.
May I be well.
May I be peaceful and at ease.
May I be happy.

All three of the authors I named use a version of this meditation/prayer that comes from the heart of Buddhist teachings. After awhile you can say:

May I and all beings
be filled with lovingkindness.
May I and all beings
be safe from inner and outer dangers.
May I and all beings
be well in body and mind.
May I and all beings
be happy and free.

Peace is possible within your heart. :hug:

Hekate

[Hekate]

55. "May I be filled w/ lovingkindness.May I be well.May I be peaceful&at ease

...May I be happy."

Just wanted to make sure you saw this in case you skipped the content of my post.

May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy.

Hekate

[Sapphocrat]

54. FWIW

:hug:

[clyrc]

56. About six years ago, I was on another site

and I complained about my parents endlessly. It felt like I would never get over their actions, with what seemed like good reason at the time. Then someone replied to a post that my mom sounded crazy, and that I was under no obligation to see myself the way she does. I can't tell you how much that was a light-bulb-going-off moment. Since then, my relationship with my parents has been much less strained. They simply can't get to me like they could.

My point is that trying to make some sense of your childhood, and asking others for help in that area, can be more productive than you imagine. I was thirty when I finally felt distance from my childhood, and it's gotten better ever since. I still get depressed, and I still have the occasional panic attack, but I'm so much better than I was.

Do what you have to do, and remember that time and perspective can change things.

[SensibleAmerican]

58. I would say no

They didn't break any laws did they?

The best way to deal with these assholes is not to give them the time of day. The second you believe they messed up your life, is the second they have messed up your life.

[madmusic]

65. Like Bush views the terrorists?

He believes they messed up our life and we must flush much of the Constitution to "save ourselves."

Or maybe you're one of those who believes we can legislate morality, and if it is not legislated, it's not immoral.

[titoresque]

61. Sorry you're having a hard time

but stop playing the victim.
Move on, the only thing bitterness will bring, is more bitterness. That's all.
So decide how you want to feel.

Wayne Dyers "Power of Intention" is a great book, I highly recommend.

[meisje]

62. just as long as you're not bitter

[noonwitch]

63. Know that you are better than what they thought you were

My mom used to drive me crazy-sometimes, she still annoys me, but I no longer let it make me feel bad about me. If I did, then I'd just be playing into whatever her crazy master plan for my life is, even though I'm 41. It's not easy at first to just blow off negative things your parents say or do, but in the long run, you get emotional freedom, yet don't hate them for their limitations.

[wicket]

64. I wish there was something I could do to ease your pain

:hug: