Would you have sympathy for this woman?

[bluestateguy]

I sure wouldn't, but I've become a much meaner person ever since the election.

From Daily Kos, the day after the 2004 election:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/4/123623/378

I work at a domestic violence shelter in a rural conservative district in Mich. that is has had its economy gutted by NAFTA and where Christianity dominates the culture.
Yesterday while reflecting about 4 more years of Bush I was talking with a woman staying in the shelter. I will give her a fake name, lets call her Laura B. Laura is 28, pregnant, (never considered an abortion). She finished high school and did a year of college before dropping out to have a couple of kids with her military husband. Living in Virginia on base with her autocratic mate (he doesn't allow the boys 3 and 4 to say "yeap" they have to answer "yes sir") drove her crazy and she was hospitalized for suicidal thoughts. Military dude divorced her and has custody.

She came home to Mom in Mich and ended up at our shelter to try and sort out her life. (Mom has no money either and her own problems.) We, like all secular agencies, have seen a steady erosion of funds.

Laura B. has found a job working in the kitchen at a local faith based Christian College. She makes $6/hour. She drives a dying Ford Escort wagon pays $2.15/gallon for gas. Her latest crisis is her insurance expired on Oct. 9 (her ex-partner canceled policy). She needs to come up with $211 to get insurance for one month or face a $1,000 fine if she gets caught driving with no insurance. We have some public transportation, Dial-a Ride, minibus runs between 7 am and 6 p.m., M-F $1.50 one-way. She has to be at work at 6am.

She has been walking to work lately but it is about 2 miles she is 5 months pregnant, it is dark at 5 am, and winter is coming. Solution? Go begging at the churches who seem to have money for these things. They will give her the money if she attends bible school. So last night she was at bible school until 9 p.m.

She has never attended our domestic violence support groups as she is too tired at night and goes to bed early but the bible study was not optional.

She was excited about "God's message" when she came back.

This week she moves into low income subsidized housing. Her newest crisis is she has found out when the college is closed for the Christmas holiday (one month) she has no employment. She is hoping to find temporary employment as a seasonal retail worker if the Christmas sales are brisk to tide her over. She doesn't know what she will do when the baby is born, hopes she can work up till the last week (she is on her feet all day with this job). She will be eligible for subsidized daycare.

She voted for Bush because of his "family values."

[WI_DEM]

1. she gets what she deserves then and shouldn't complain

and that goes for others who voted for him.

[calico1]

2. The sad thing as that she will probably

never have a clue how the way she votes affects her.

[kiraboo]

3. Don't get me started.

She is waiting for God to intervene, and in the meantime is counting on our tax dollars to pull her through tough times. I am such a cynic these days. No, I have no sympathy, currently on the edge of divorce without a job and I intend to work to support myself fully, come hell or high water. She must do the same. Six bucks an hour. She has mush for brains.

[jobycom]

4. Yes, for her and her children. She's as betrayed by Bush and the media

as the rest of us.

[acmavm]

5. Her vote cancels any pity I may have had for her.

[uppityperson]

6. yes, I would have a lot of sympathy for her

poor deluded sick person.

[arcane1]

7. some sympathy for her, but tons of it for her child

:evilfrown:

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arcane1]

9. who is condoning such a thing?

I must have missed that part :eyes:

[Dhalgren]

12. Who said anything about condoning domestic violence?

Maybe you're at the wrong party?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SensibleAmerican]

31. I am educated very well on domestic violence

It appears you don't know what you're talking about.

Domestic violence affects everybody. The rich ... the poor ... the Republicans ... the Democrats. Yes, it is probably true that domestic violence victims, as this lady is in the article, could take more responsibility for her safety. However, until you have volunteered in a domestic violence shelter or you have come from a home with domestic violence, you don't understand how hard it is to break the cycle of violence and abuse. So get off your butt and sign up to volunteer at your local shelter first and then you can come back and talk to me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. Where did it say she was the victim of domestic violence?

I see where it says her husband was a jerk. But I'm missing the part where it says she's a victim.

I also missed the part about people condoning domestic violence.

[SensibleAmerican]

43. She was (and still is) in a domestic violence shelter

These shelters are not Club Med.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

45. No, but it does say she's homeless and pregnant.

And last I checked, women's shelters took in homeless pregnant women.

Unless this is one of those fancy women's shelters that doesn't take in homeless pregnant women. In which case I'll concede my point.

Now if you'll kindly point out where people condoned domestic violence...

[SensibleAmerican]

48. If she were merely homeless and pregnant, she wouldn't need ...

to go to a domestic violence support group, would she?

It is clear the woman is trying to use religion (Christianity and her Bible study) in lieu of going to her domestic violence support group. I disagree with this, (though I don't disagree with doing both), however I do not fault the woman for doing this, especially since I know what brainwashing some in the church do. (Essentially these people would believe that this woman was abused because of her "sins" (though this statement is in direct contradiction with what Jesus said in the Bible), which is not too different from a lot of the posts here).

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. You're dodging the question.

Doesn't strike me as very sensible, American.

[SensibleAmerican]

51. Do you believe this woman was a victim of domestic violence?

n/t

[Marie26]

68. She probably doesn't exist

But if she did, she's a victim of domestic abuse. Shelters don't let in anyone just because they had a bad marriage. They've got to have suffered recent abuse or be fleeing a dangerous situation. This story says she's just hanging out w/her mom 2000 miles away from the husband, & then moves to a shelter because it's cheaper? It doesn't work like that. Either the story itself is just made up, or the author is minimizing the domestic violence that was present. I don't think this story wants us to feel sympathy for her; it wants us to feel mad at her.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

70. Agreed.

Seems like a hypothetical woman. Regardless, domestic violence wasn't really the issue, was it?

[Marie26]

73. It sort of is

It bothers me how this story seems to minimize the effects of domestic violence. She's in a DV shelter, but the author just glosses right over that in order to focus on the essential things like her Bible Study Group. I think this was just a hateful email intended to rally the troops against the "Freepers." That's fine. But it's also encouraging Democrats to disparage victims of domestic abuse, just because of their political affiliation, & I find that a little troubling. I know the thread is posted as a question - should we have sympathy? But everything in that email is encouraging liberals not to have compassion for this fictional woman's troubles. Look at the responses here - "It's her fault", "she's stupid", "moocher" etc. We sound like a pack of Freepers. And IMO, that callousness is the response this essay was intended to provoke. That's why I consider it propaganda. It's in the subtext; but it's there.

[rinsd]

77. I think you nailed it Marie26

Its seem to be to provoke the simultaneous emotional responses of hating Bush for what he has done to this woman, fundamentalist Christians for taking advantage of her and hating the woman for still voting for Bush and succumbing to the Christians.

Propaganda is exactly the word.

[treestar]

78. No, it's not. The point is that she is an adult and her vote shows that

she would not have sympathy for others in a bad position, so she should just live with it and not complain herself. She votes Republican - the point of this is that Republicans generally have the attitude that the government should not help the less fortunate, that people should not be taxed to help the unsuccessful, and so on. She took that position by voting for Bush.

She's also a Christian apparently spouting the right wing family values line and voting in accordance with the Republican claim to all of that. She is identified with the right wing female tradition, and so should not apply a double standard when it comes to herself; according to what she follows, she just didn't please her husband and so he gets to do what he wants and kick her out, etc., and society should allow her to suffer the consequences of failing her husband. That's what her vote showed she advocates for others.

[rinsd]

80. Hook, line and sinker.....

[Marie26]

86. Uh-huh

Message received, apparantly. "Society should allow her to suffer the consequences of failing her husband". Interesting how one email can suddenly inspire liberals to start quoting fundie rhetoric.

[bloom]

87. "she would not have sympathy for others in a bad position"

I think that's just an assumption of some people - I don't assume that.

I know some people like that who would vote completely on the issue of abortion -and who don't really understand the issues. It is quite an idealistic viewpoint in it's own way. The idea that women will not end up abandoned, pregnant, with no money, no car, depressed, etc. The idea that there should not be social supports for people who do find themselves in such a place.

The problem is that the people who would have no sympathy for her - are just like the people they are criticizing - they "would not have sympathy for others in a bad position".

[treestar]

96. But the point is she voted for Bush because of his family values

Isn't she then just getting what she said she deserved? Others deserved it when she made that vote. So when things go bad for her, she should just suck it up like her vote showed she thought others should.

[MichiganVote]

76. DV shelters help people w/bad marriages who need shelter all the time

They may move them on to other services that better meet their needs, but I've seen it and recommened it myself.

[Marie26]

81. Maybe it varies.

The DV shelters I've worked with usually required an emergency situation.

[uppityperson]

52. hey hooligan, I can see where this is coming from too

hard to tell 1 way or the other from this story but here are the 2 sides:
1. staying in a DV shelter, means probably DV victim
2. staying in a DV shelter does NOT mean DV victim.

It depends on the shelter as to whom they accept, what their standards are to get in. It seems tp be arguing for the sake of arguing. Please just stop, thank you.

[Lars39]

58. At the very beginning of the OP:

"I work at a domestic violence shelter..."
"I was talking with a woman staying in the shelter"

[bluestateguy]

63. That was not me, it was the e-mailer

I would never say that anyone deserved to be beaten up by their spouse.

But she did make terrible choices afterwards that are counterproductive to solving her problems.

[bloom]

67. So besides voting

(which one person's vote would not have changed things for her - and it esp. wouldn't considering the vote stealing process)

What else are you unsympathetic about?

[Marie26]

69. Can anyone answer this?

How is the author of this piece contemplating "four more years of Bush rule" in an essay that was posted the morning of Nov. 4, 2004? Did he/she know something we didn't - Diebold connections, possibly? And how does this person also immediately know this woman's vote, though she works in the mornings?

[Lars39]

71. I think the bigger question is why kos posted it in the first place.

[Marie26]

74. Anger.

That's the answer, IMO. Liberal rage on Election Day, 2004. I remember feeling angry at the Christian conservatives who were re-electing Bush, & maybe Kos felt the same. Another question is why this story is being posted now, 2 years later.

[uppityperson]

17. I see what you mean, but sympathy overall, NOT about DV only

SA, I see what you mean, but I do not think that this is meant to ask do you have sympathy for someone who experienced DV even if a rightwingfundamentalist, but do you have sympathy for a rightwingfundamentalist even if she were dv'd.

[SensibleAmerican]

57. I see what you're saying

I guess the problem with the segregating her problems is that she's probably homeless because of the abuse she has endured (be it physical or emotional). Bear in mind probably the only reason she voted for Bush is because her husband told her to vote for Bush. I know this is bordering on profiling, but this is probably the case.

I would have sympathy for anybody, but I would definitely have sympathy for this woman as it appears she is a victim of undetected abuse (undetected by the state, that is).

[hyphenate]

20. There is nothing that says she was a

victim of domestic abuse. It said she ended up there because she had no where else to go, and that her militant (that's what it should say, not military) husband drove her nuts. Physical violence is not mentioned, but as someone who is familiar with domestic abuse, anyone who even listens ONCE to verbal or psychological abuse and stays HAS to be a nutcase, IMHO. However, even here it sounds like she was just a weak-willed person who had low self-esteem and perhaps had her own problems (like I said in my own post, perhaps she is an addictive personality and had substance abuse problems of her own.) We can't know--there isn't enough information to know for sure, and doing anything more is mere speculation, which is what I'm doing and I'm sure what others are also doing, since it's the only way to fill in the blanks.

Rather than to judge our reactions as to whether we sympathize with her has nothing to do with whether we "condone" domestic violence or not--what most people are saying is that this woman is obviously too ignorant to realize that the Bush "family" doctrine is what is continuing to screw her up in many ways, and yet she's too stupid to vote against him. And no, many of us don't feel sorry for ANYONE who voted for Bush, because if most people merely saw behind the curtain they would realize that this administration has no respect for anyone other than the top 1% of the American people who happen to be in the highest tier of wealth.

As far as this woman is concerned overall, I can't see her as being much more than a throwaway human being--at least as far as our social order is concerned, and she's not doing anything to change that opinion. She's obviously not attempting to improve her lot, she's not fighting against the ex to regain custody of her children, and she's obviously not willing to do something more for herself, whether it's further education or training, or even simply getting the fuck out of the "Christian" influence in her life.

So please recant your insults, as most of us here are well aware--too well aware--of exactly what domestic abuse and violence is all about, because many of us have been there and battled those demons in the past already, and many of us simply don't want to listen to whiners who refuse to help themselves in the same situation.

[SensibleAmerican]

36. Nothing ... except the fact she WAS IN A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SHELTER

I can tell you one thing. These shelters don't accept people who are just merely down on their luck. This lady probably called the police, or the police were called by a third party, and they probably assisted her in finding this shelter. Most DV shelter employees also help DV victims with the criminal process as well.

[LostinVA]

92. DV shelters don't just take women in who are homeless

They are seriously underfunded and don't even have enough places available for all victims of DV who request help. They would probably call a few places on her behalf to find her a place to stay, but they certainly wouldn't let her just hang out an dlive in one "because it's cheaper." It does NOT work that way... anywhere.

The article an the OP really, really rankle me.

[LSK]

28. reading problems?

:shrug:

[bloom]

64. Unfortunately

there are sick fucks in all parties, probably - there certainly are in the Democratic and Republican ones.

Whether the woman was a victim of abuse or of simply an all too common lack of support is difficult to say. Domestic abuse can be a difficult line to define - esp. if it were emotional abuse - even if we knew what happened - which we don't . As you mention - the woman was in a DV shelter - so that does suggest something.

And there is a clearly a contingent here who does not think the woman deserves support - in some ways - mirroring the husbands attitudes.

Ideally - our society as a whole would be more supportive.

[MadHound]

10. Yes I have sympathy for her, but it is sympathy tempered

But a good dose of education to correct her many mistakes. Yes, she would get my help and support, for she is a person in need. But along the way I would also tell her how hurt voting patterns, and other behavior, is counterproductive to her health and well being.

This is how you get votes people, one at a time. Letting her rot because of prior voting record is souless and cold, and you are completely missing a great opportunity to pick up another voter. This is something that all of should do, converting on person at a time. I live in a very red county, and my neighbors are quite conservative. But if you leave the labels out of it, if you approach them calmly person to person, you can show them the error of their ways, and pick up more votes for us.

[tocqueville]

11. if you don't have sympathy for those people and find secular alternatives

to help them...

then the Democratic party is not worth it"s name...

people cannot be blamed for being ignorant if those who claim not being ignorant do nothing to get them out of ignorance

[seriousstan]

13. No, I am a mindless fuck and all my sympathy is politically guided.

She voted for Bush sooooo.....fuck her. She deserves to suffer and her kids to starve.

[rinsd]

56. I don't know what's sadder

That your sarcastic response actually mirrors some DUers real responses or that people are getting hot and bothered about an e-mail forward that is likely to be untrue.

[Marie26]

60. It's a toss-up. nt

[hyphenate]

15. She sounds like a lot of people

I know and can't summon much sympathy for. If she's making under a certain income, most states have a medicaid plan to help out, and in addition, as I learned when I was in L.A., ALL state hospitals give free care to those who can not afford it. In fact, even though I was weeks (literally) away from a second heart attack, that's where I was supposed to go, despite the fact that the state hospital closest to me was like 20 miles away. And all major clinics also have a prescription plan for those who can not afford their medications.

Many of the charities around also cater to this kind of person, but personally, I would not want someone like this whining about not receiving any "help." She must have been doing something pretty nasty when her asshole husband got full custody of the kids--my sister is a perfect example--her ex said she was a drug addict and alcoholic, and while that was true, he was as well, but he had a better lawyer than my sister did. So whether this woman has an addiction or not, most judges would not have kept her from at least joint custody unless they had evidence that she was not caring for them.

Pro-life is one thing, but when a woman puts herself into an untenable spot like this, it's not really being wise to keep a child under these circumstances. If she had someone who was capable of helping her and could do some taking care of aq child for her, it would be one thing, but going ahead with something like that without any kind of plan is just plain stupid.

As for voting for the asshole, well, I did just say she was just plain stupid.

[Lars39]

16. If you can't look beyond who she voted for to feel sympathy

you are one sad individual.

[bloom]

23. That's what I'm thinking.

I was just reading the posting on another thread about women who are abused by military men and then I see this - and people are blaming the woman - I don't get people.

She's probably so depressed she can't see straight.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

29. WTF??????????

This should have been deleted!

[Mandate My Ass]

32. It wasn't

and neither are his other offensive diatribes against women with the same hatefulness and sexually degrading innuendo.

[Marie26]

88. But that post was?

And people wonder why DU is sometimes called hostile to women.

[LostinVA]

91. Geez

Am shocked her post WAS deleted, when all it did was link to another post....

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. Given the statement didn't make any sort of logical sense...

I'd suggest that the poster was trying to make some sort of parodical joke about the "he must be thinking with his other head" type comments.

Hmm.

[tkmorris]

39. I'm with Lars

I would also like to point out that with the problems this young woman has in her life I doubt she has the time or the inclination to educate herself fully about politics and Mr. Bush. True, it would be better if she did but I will hardly blame her or withhold my sympathy from her because she did not.

In fact, if this situation were close to me I would personally help her in any way I could, starting with rides to and from work. I would befriend her and wherever possible discuss with her the progressive values that drive me to act in that fashion. Not force them down her throat mind you, just as a matter of getting to know each other. Perhaps in time she would begin to see what sort of people and politician really has values, and which do not.

Or perhaps she would not. It would not matter though, helping others is always the right thing to do and is not predicated on them agreeing with my political beliefs.

[blogslut]

18. I take it...

that the "faith-based" college doesn't offer some sort of medical insurance for their employees.

I see from the references that this was a story from the past. I hope the baby came out healthy. Working on one's feet and walking to work - combined with the stress of pregnancy - can lead to very serious consequences.

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. My answer to the author --

I have the same sympathy for her in her circumstance as I have for those battered women you work with -- for the same reasons.

She has been culturally abused, just as the battered women have been abused, with the same reaction - there is a disconnect between the circumstance and the cause. You know how hard it is for some women to escape abusive relationships. I see this as the same thing.

She needs support and counseling and a safe environment. In Bushamerica, she's not likely to find it. And every few months the government will yell Terra Terra to frighten her back home.

How do you convince a battered woman that she shouldn't go back to the batterer? By showing her that what has happened is the responsibility of the batterer, not the battered -- that she's not at fault for being abused. "But he loves me, and didn't mean to hurt me". Sorry, dearie, but no he doesn't and yes he did.

[acmejack]

21. Wow, we have a lot of hard hearted people here.

I guess I'm just an old fool, for I feel sorry for her. I have seen too many of those marriages, the military is anathema to a normal life, let alone a normal marriage. But I am lucky that people have excused some of my screw ups, some of us make them. We need to forgive our Countrymen their ignorance and educate them, not castigate them.

[BillZBubb]

22. None at all.

[Odin2005]

25. Yes, I have loads sympathy for her.

The "Family Values" rhetoric is all about the Pukes distracting the American people from thier economic troubles. It's sickening.

[Scribe]

26. What is her favorite color? That is as relevant as her vote. n/t

[Marie26]

27. Of course. nt

[deaniac21]

30. The story sounds made up to me. It hits too many EXACT

buttons to be found in nature. Unlike Mr. Leopold, I like multiple corroborations a story before I invest too much emotion.

[Marie26]

34. The liberal version

of a "welfare queen"? Could be. Even the Daily Kos link is just to a forwarded email the author received - and we all know forwarded emails are never wrong.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. I was under the impression...

that it was supposed to be a fictional story and a hypothetical...

[Marie26]

59. Urban legend

I was under the impression it was supposed to be a real person. Most of the comments here & Kos are acting like this is a real story. This story seems intended to get liberals pissed off at Bush voters - to the point where they won't even have sympathy for a victim of domestic abuse. It's just manipulative propaganda, IMO. Look at when this thing was posted: November 4, 2004, at 9:36 AM. How would this fictional woman even have time to vote yet, much yet have her story passed around the Internet? How is a five-month pregant woman w/a 6 AM job & no car getting to the voting booth anyway? I'm calling BS. This story is just like the apocryphal "War on Christmas" stories that conservatives like to get upset about.

[bloom]

72. "How is a five-month pregnant woman w/a 6 AM job & no car..."

Exactly. All the reason to be more sympathetic.

But whether the story is real or not - one could still have an opinion about it. And I don't get why people wouldn't have sympathy for a victim of domestic abuse OR for a woman who found herself in that situation, anyway - call it abuse or not.

Seems like people could use the reasoning that nobody should ever get pregnant - it would make as much sense as some of the comments.

[Marie26]

79. Right

Right - whether fictional or not, people can still express an opinion on the situation. I think this story could be re-written in a way that would make readers cry. But this story was written in a way so that people would feel disgust & anger at the woman instead. Blech. Thanks for pointing out the obvious - this is a sad story, & a person that we should feel compassion for regardless of her politics.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. I'm sorry she's dumb.

I'm sorry for her kids.

[Bluerthanblue]

99. dumb means she can't speak-

I just brought this up with a group of campers today, who were trying to 'dis' each other-

Funny, how appropriate the word actually is when it is applied as you have- Since she doesn't fit a certian 'sympathy criteria' she has no voice- she's worthless- but lets not drag her kids into this- so we'll have sympathy for them.... till they grow up, and live out the same dysfunctional life skills their voiceless mother did- and someone will pity 'their kids'... and the circle it goes round and round, and the painted ponies go up and down, we're captured on a carousel of time, we can't go back we can only look behind from where we came....

can't we stop this circle game somewhere???

[etherealtruth]

37. Yes ... a tremendous amount of sympathy

She appears to be very hard working ... and it is getting her no where.

I wish she hadn't voted for the chimp ... however, that doesn't eliminate my concerns related to her dire straits.

[Spirochete]

40. Yeah, I guess I do

It can't be easy being that dim AND unlucky. Hope things turn for her, and she realizes how dumb it was to vote for *

[radwriter0555]

41. She is entitled to sympathy. Clearly she's not mentally stable and as such

is entitled to compassion and empathy.

Why would you gang up on a woman who's clearly not in full possession of all her mental faculties? Why must you be bullies? Reserve your hate for truly evil and murderous, treasonous, lying, cheating, stealing republicans who would kill you mother if they would earn a penny doing it.

Beating up on a woman not operating at full capacity is mean and bullying. Why on earth would you act like a republican?

[Nickster]

42. Boy oh boy, sure sounds like the madrassas don't it? n/t

[rockymountaindem]

44. Yes, I have sympathy for her

I do not have sympathy for people like car dealers who voted for Bush and are now upset because they can't sell SUVs like it's 1999. I don't have sympathy for people who voted specifically for tax cuts and are now bitching they didn't get any or that state taxes and fee increases have wiped out their federal tax cut.

This poor woman, despite her mistakes and her misguided voting decision, deserves all our sympathy.

[SoCalDem]

47. Sounds like Laura B. has made some pretty bad choices

People are there to help her, and she needs some help, but if the past is a guide, she won't follow that advice..

If she can get daycare, going back to school would be her best bet.. there are programs that will help her.. Hope she finds one..

[lukasahero]

50. Of course. Sympathy, empathy - I always thought that's what made us

Democrats. I must have missed the memo announcing the change. :shrug:

(It's nice to see a few people here still believe in that.)

[noonwitch]

53. Of course I'm sympathetic, I'd have to be pretty cold-hearted not to be

although if the baby's father is the father of the other kids, she's going to lose her baby in a custody battle.

I'm guessing that she lives either in Holland and works at Hope, or lives in Berrien County and works at that college there (it used to be called Andrews College, I believe).

Catholics would treat her better than conservative protestants, if she is seeking help from a "pro-life" church.

[rinsd]

54. Why would I have sympathy for a ficticious woman in an email forward?

[earth mom]

55. Bible School = Bribery!

:grr:

This woman is desperate and while she has made horrible choices and mistakes, these bastards are exploiting her desperation by bribing her to go to their bible school in order to get help! This is the EXACT reason the founding fathers wanted a separation of church and state, so that people aren't coerced into religious beliefs!!! Meanwhile * & his thugs are financing this bullshit to the tune of millions of OUR--OUR!!!--TAX DOLLARS while people who aren't willing to sell their souls to these bastards live on the street and go hungry!

:argh:

[Marnieworld]

61. Sure I do. Why not? Seriously.

Her life is very hard. She is one of the millions of working poor. I have great sympathy for her. I must have missed why I shouldn't.

[pitohui]

62. i don't even care any more about people so self-hating

her vote for bush was a vote not just to harm herself -- but it was a vote to harm ME -- so to hell w. her frankly

[Bluerthanblue]

100. Isn't that

kind of self defeating?

I hate you, you hate me, lets get together and kill everyone-??? (forget poor Barney)

If I get to the point where I don't care about others, I'm walking dead- I hope your are speaking out of a position of great frustration and anger, and not based on your sincere feelings??

I believe you are a better person than you are letting on-

We all screw up- we all make very bad life choices at some point- And for most of us, the last person willing to 'forgive' us, is ourself.-----

To hell with me, I growing weary of living in a world where its hate or be hated...

sorry to pick on you, your post is only one of many here which state this point of view...
I'm just so sad to read here .....

what have we become???

[RangerSmith]

65. If who she voted

for matters to you, you have become one of them.

The money is indeed in the division.

[Bridget Burke]

66. Yes.

She committed the "sin" of voting for Bush. Therefore, many neo-Puritans here want to condemn her to Hell.

[pitohui]

84. she condemned herself to hell

in her ignorance, she is also condemning more innocent children to the same hell

the OP is not being a mean person to point out that this crab in the bucket is dragging the rest of us down

saying we pity the woman is just a way to make ourselves feel like we're better than "them," well, how is being better than "them" working out for us so far?

[Bridget Burke]

94. You accept Hell....

But reject the possibility of Salvation.

[Bluerthanblue]

101. no, having compassion for others doesn't make us BETTER-

it makes us 'different'-

And from what I read on DU lately- an awful lot of people have chosen to 'become them' - so, it seems it is working out pretty well for 'them'-

But I refuse to become one of 'them'- and will fight for those who are being courted by hate-

We are ALL 'them' to someone-

You could be this 'crab' in someones bucket- and you have every right to be cared about-
Just because you ARE.

peace,
blu

[Catherine Vincent]

75. Yes, you are very mean.

[VOX]

82. She is a fallible human being, deserving of compassion and understanding.

She has suffered deeply, and is deserving of human compassion and understanding.

She has made some poor choices, but it's probable that many of those choices were made in ignorance.

She is not to blame -- the blame lies squarely upon the disingenuous right wing that has exploited the fear and pain of individuals attracted or tied to stringent religion. These folks continually vote against their own economic interests and well-being by helping to elect right-wing candidates.

The strategic question here is: How has the right wing come to hold such sway with this stratum of our society? Is it possible for these people to receive some credence and hope from Democratic candidates?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

83. 100% Absolutely Yes. I'm A Democrat.

And as such care for my fellow human being(s) going through hardship. I feel nothing but wholehearted hope that everything works out ok for her. I saw nothing in that article whatsoever that would deem her unworthy of respect, graciousness, sympathy or prayers of well being.

If I abandoned all forms of human empathy for someone simply because they voted for *, I wouldn't consider myself to be a true democrat: I'd consider myself to be a narrow-minded schmuck.

[omega minimo]

85. Intentional gender wars in GD are driving people away

[LostinVA]

93. Agreed --

I think many are intentional... and, sometimes after the nastier ones, I don't read or post for a week or more.

Btw, I like your posts, OM...

[Lars39]

97. Agreed

I alerted yesterday on this thread for being a hit and run piece of crap.

[titoresque]

89. Yes I do have sympathy for her

she represents a lot of people who are just so fucking busy digging themselves out of holes they have no time left for education. They have no time to research, or to know what is going on in the world. If you turn your computer off for a week you will see. It's like living in fantasyland. That is where the majority of people such as this woman live. The Bush regime banks on this.

To me this is a woman who is pregnant and walks to work, to a job that doesn't pay squat. And comes home to a shelter, minus her children whom she knows will grow up with a father (her ex) whom she feared.

For those of you who are condemning this woman, please take a moment to be thankful for the fact that you are not walking in her shoes, and that you are fortunate enough to have any extra time and comfort to actually sit on a computer and educate yourself to what is really going on.
Be thankful.

[SOS]

90. She'll really need sympathy

when the Republicans cut the funding for her subsidized housing and daycare.

[theboss]

95. First of all, I don't believe that she voted at all

I honestly don't believe 80 percent of these "I met a Bush/Kerry/Nader voter" stories for the simple reason that half of the country doesn't vote at all. I find it very hard to believe that a pregnant woman with no car who just moved back to Michigan voted in any election. She is probably registered to vote in Virginia if at all.

Having said that, I do and I don't have sympathy. I have sympathy that she married the wrong guy - which millions of woman do. If the story is true, that is the cause of all of her problems.

I have sympathy that she apparently had an awful divorce attorney because it's not clear how the husband apparently got the kids, all the assets, and no alimony to pay. If the story is true, the FIRST thing she needs to do is go to Legal Aid and get help.

I'm sorry that she is pregant, but - again - it's not clear who that father is.

I'm sorry that she apparently has no father.

In fact, if you look at this story from a non-political angle (and why wouldn't you) what I see is a woman who has apparently been abused and abandoned by men all of her life. That's the tragedy in the story. Her father is not around. Her husband mistreated and abandoned her. The father of this latest child is gone. She needs therapy to straighten out her relationships with men.

And finding a good church would not be a bad idea. The church I grew up in specialized in helping women with these problems.

[Bluerthanblue]

98. ABSOLUTELY!- and I am ashamed of

those who would use her 'voting history'- or her 'religious addiction' as reasons to withold compassion for someone who is quite obviously caught in a life that brings her nothing but sadness, co-dependent fear, and scorn, even from those who claim to be from the 'truly compassionate' party- (by that I mean US- Dems.)

If you can't have compassion for someone caught in a life that is so much less than ok- then who are you saving your compassion for??? Those who 'fit' your criteria of 'compassion worthy'????- Hell, even republicans do that-

Please, someone, ANYONE- remind me again of why I believe this party is the party of the REAL people of America???- Those who truly care for others, regardless of their ignorance, dis-abilities, social class, ethnic background, poor choices, or (and this is what I believe is going on with this woman) dysfunctional personal relationships = lack of self worth/esteem?

Or are 'we' or have we become simply the yang to the conservitive hate minds that rule the 'right'???

I'm losing faith in humanity .... and posts like these seem to feed this dis-ease.

....peace.... no,... mercy?... pardon... us all

blu