It's time for federal price controls on gasoline

[bluestateguy]

We hear a lot about the absence of sacrifice in over the last five years, even as this country has been at war. Well, if you look at gas prices, and ho w a lot of working people are really being squeezed, that is not really true. They are sacrificing a lot. Now it's time to ask the oil companies to sacrifice too, by federally regulating the price of gasoline. Okay, maybe we can't go back to the good old days of $1.20 a gallon gas, but gas should not be more than $2.00 a gallon. It's time for the oil companies to do some sacrificing too.

And I don't care what the economists say about price controls. I don't care about the supply and demand curves. I just don't care. Talk to the hand, cuz the face don't want to hear it. Economics is a fascinating social science, but it is deficiently short on meeting human needs and compassion for our fellow Americans.

I know the oil companies, and for that matter, the radical wing of the environmentalist movement, are both enjoying the skyrocketing gas prices, but it's time to turn out the lights and tell them that the party is over.

[TX-RAT]

1. How do you regulate the imported oil?

[Rosemary2205]

6. They aren't selling from recently imported oil

they are currently refining oil that was bought at $10-$12 a barrel. Our gasoline prices are being manipulated by restricting refining capacity and by basing the current sales price on the current price of oil not what was actually paid for it.

In addition, it's my belief supply countries are reducing production in spite of claims that they are at capacity.

edit to add that oil stocks (unrefined oil in long term storage by private owners) is at a 13 year high.

[Egalitariat]

19. When was oil at $12 per barrel?***

nm

[Rosemary2205]

26. Here

Clinton era crude was between $10 and $20 a barrel. Then OPEC began production cuts.

Post 911 we've also had refinery cuts in the US.

Edit - sorry forgot the link
http://www.wtrg.com/prices.htm

[Egalitariat]

41. So are you proposing the gasoline being refined today is being

made with oil that was purchased 8 years ago?

[TX-RAT]

46. Pretty much the way i took it.

[rman]

28. 1998 is the last time it was just a little over $10

http://www.oilnergy.com/1onymex.htm

[rman]

23. anything as long as it isn't depletion

[ProdigalJunkMail]

7. stop injecting logic and common sense

:-)

[LSK]

9. I dont recall him saying to regulate importing oil

Hes talking about the FINAL PRODUCT.

[Egalitariat]

20. If you DON'T control the price of the ingredient (imported oil), and you

DO control the price of the finished product (gasoline), then whoever is selling the finished product is going to take it on the chin. I know we'd all like for the oil companies to take a big one on the chin, but in reality they'd find a different way to make money and we wouldn't have any gasoline.

[LSK]

22. record profits = money left after all costs (including oil costs)

Also, Id like to know if European gas prices have risen like ours have.

[AndyTiedye]

37. You Could Bring Back the "Windfall Profits Tax"

[TX-RAT]

32. As of today were paying around 1.81 a gallon on imported crude.

How do we pay for refining, shipping and about 3 levels of marketing and still keep it below 2.00?


Sorry price went up before i finished my post.

[AndyTiedye]

2. It's Time To Rebuild Our Rail System So People Have a Choice

[Rosemary2205]

17. Actually that might be counter productive

our rail system is heavily used for freight. We could put more passenger trains on those lines but it will knock the frieght off onto trucks. It's my understand the cost for increasing the infrastructure to handle both is so costly that it's not economically viable unless gasoline were to reach something like $10 a gallon in today's dollars.

This isn't to say metro areas can't do more to increase public transport riderships.

[LSK]

29. heres a wild idea: build more tracks

How about we stop spending $9billion per month in Iraq and build more railroad tracks, get more busses and finally get 200mph trains in the US like they have had in Europe and Japan for ages???

[TX-RAT]

33. Always liked that idea.

[MindPilot]

3. OPEC sets the price of crude and the price of gas follows

You can bet your ass that if the US government regulated the price of gasoline, the oil companies would find a way to take it from the hide of the gas station owners.

Price fixing is price fixing whether the government does it or the corporations do it. And frankly, I don't trust this government to do anything without screwing the working class anymore than they're already getting screwed.

[elehhhhna]

4. 3.38 in Chicago yesterday. 2.99 in Houston.

[td_NY]

5. High Prices will be good for this country, sort of

If there is one thing this country needs more than anything, myself included, it's to get on bike or take a walk when you go to the store. Or whatever, the senseless need to drive everywhere is such a terrible way to go about things. Maybe it will help out small stores in small towns. All of a sudden it's not a better alternative to drive 20 minutes to the nearest Wal-Mart for cheaper prices when you can walk to the nearest store in your own town and it's all a wash. Who knows, I may have no idea what I'm talking about. Wouldn't be the first time

[LSK]

10. yes and no

America was not built with walking or riding bikes to the store. In some areas of suburbia, that is just not practical. Also its not practical in winter months in parts of the country.

[AndyTiedye]

34. There Was a Store Within Walking Distance. It's Gone

The store was converted to office space a couple of years ago.

Nearest store now is 7 miles away.
Would be an easy bike ride except for the 1700' of climbing.
That could be tough with several bags of groceries
Maybe I'll need that 26-tooth granny gear after all.

[AndyTiedye]

38. Maybe We Need Some of These

http://www.pterosail.com

[leftofthedial]

8. it is time for federal controls on nearly every aspect of corporatism

corporatism is a psychotic, out-of-control force that is rampaging through democracy, destroying everything in its path

if corporations were really people, hundreds of them would be on death row already.

[MindPilot]

49. First we'd need to get a legitimate government...

you know one that derives its power from the consent of the governed and is executed by representatives elected by a majority of the people.

[leftofthedial]

52. wow. that would be cool.

but it'll never happen.

[MacDuff]

11. How do you control the price....

of a finite resource that the US doesn't have enough of? You say "talk to the hand" - but let me clue you in, there is a BIG hand coming your way, and its' going to be a slap in the face of your lifestyle - it's called Peak Oil - and it's real, and it's now...

US Production of oil peaked in 1973 - we have never pumped more oil out of the ground than we did that year, not with modern pumping techniques, not with modern exploration techniques, not with a LOT more wells - now the world is at the same place the US was then - and worse, in '73 there were other producers worldwide who could take up the slack (OPEC nations, the North Sea) - now there are none - you think prices are bad now? Oil just hit a record high this morning - and those prices haven't even hit the pump yet

Other than the ignorance of basic geology (the FACT that oil is limited and will run out in the next 30 years or so) I think the thing I find most frustrating is this: Where in our system of govt are we promised cheap gasoline? people are "demanding" relief so they can drive long distances in their giant SUV's - it's pathetic and loathsome....spoiled Americans whining about prices that are STILL much lower than Europe's....

We need more trains and buses, overfed Americans need to walk more - you want relief? I moved within two block of my work - I walk 5 minutes door to door - my car sits for days at at time un driven - and I'm happier and healthier for it - I cut my gas bill in half each month (and it was already low) - if gas doubles, I will ride my bike more, walk even more and be healthier still....

you can't fight geology, but you can change your life so that it doesn't affect you so much

[tridim]

12. How about rationing?

It might be the only way.

[Strelnikov_]

27. We Will Get There Soon. Right Now, Though, The 'Free Market' Types

are extolling the virtues of current 'rationing by price', or 'demand destruction' as it it is also called, or as I call it, 'the rich get theirs, everybody else can suck hind tit'.

[Strelnikov_]

25. "**** You, We Sell To China" Would Be A Common Refrain On The Trading

floor.

The 72% of oil we import has to be purchased on the open market. That is, we are bidding against China, India, etc.

The 'control' left to us now, as you allude to, is conservation.

[Sammy Pepys]

13. Good luck with that

Regardless oif your opinion of economics, that doesn't mean it's going to result in any better a situation than we have now.

[LSK]

14. have gas prices tripled in Europe ???

From 2000 to the present.

[rman]

31. No, but that's because a large part of the price/liter is taxes

So the price of gas is not as sensitive to fluctuations in the price of oil as it is in the US.

[malaise]

15. Did you hear the cost per barrel today

$76+ - with the chaos in the ME, expcet $80 by Monday. Freedom from gas is on the move.

[napi21]

16. I doubt price controls would work.

The refineries would just create an artificial shortage, and THEN we'd all be pi**ed!

[Hubert Flottz]

18. Dream on...

You are paying for the Repub congress critter's campaigns at the pump now! Exxon rips you off and donates to the RNC. Same shit happened in 2004!

[benevolent dictator]

21. Personally I'd like to see the cost of gas increase.

I'd also like to see oil profits go down.

I'd also like to see more investment in alternative fuels and mass transit.
^ That won't happen without higher fuel costs.

[AndyTiedye]

36. Would Be Better to Improve the Transit First

But you will very likely get the high prices you asked for
without any alternatives in place.

The regime will do everything it can to obstruct such alternatives,
as it has been doing since it seized power.
They like high oil prices too, as long as they dip a bit
in time for Election Day.

[benevolent dictator]

39. I know that would be better, but

I doubt it will happen if there's no incentive for it to.

::sigh::

[AndyTiedye]

40. Our Current Gas Prices Provide Lots of Incentive

Maybe not if you work for big oil like THEM,
but for everybody else.

[TX-RAT]

50. We have 39 oil producing states.

We can't find enough people to work the fields around here. A worm rig hand draws 16.50 an hour and get 70 hrs a week. Pulling unit hands make a little less. Allot of states are receiving much needed tax revenue.

[AndyTiedye]

51. At $77+, a Lot of "Worked-Out" Wells Aren't So Worked-Out After All

we still gotta figure out how to get by with less of the stuff

[TX-RAT]

53. You are correct.

There putting wells on line that haven't pumped in years. Theres a total of 46 wells on my place, their working on bringing 20 of them back on line. They've only pumped 22 of them in the last 15 years. Some of the wells were shut in when they went down to less than 8 barrels a day, it just wasn't profitable then. Just wish i owned the mineral rights.

[MadHound]

24. Been there, done that, stupid then, stupid now

Sorry, but I remember back during the seventies oil embargo, Nixon imposed price controls on gas in order to keep the price down. It led to gas being withheld from the market by the oil corporations, and we wound up with artificial scarcity and rationing. Thank you much, but I would prefer not to return to that sort of catastrophe.

Frankly I wouldn't mind gas prices going higher. It will get gas guzzlers off the road and speed progress on alternative fuels like biodiesel.

[rman]

30. It will only run out faster

I'd be more effective to use some of the billions spend on war to fund development and deployment of alternative energy.

[spanone]

35. Not a prayer of a chance. You are talking about oilmen here.

[NickB79]

42. What part of "finite, nonrenewable resource" don't people here understand?

The core reason oil is going up is because it is becoming harder to find and extract. The big supergiant fields around the world are on the verge of being tapped out. Mexico's massive Cantarell field is starting to falter, the North Sea is producing less every year, Kuwait's Burgen field is faltering, the North Slope of Alaska is in decline, Indonesia has become a new oil importer as their oil production falls, hurricanes could make the Gulf of Mexico impossible to drill in, and on and on and on.

The instability in the Middle East and West Africa adds a lot to the price run-up, but even if all were stable, oil prices would still be surging upwards.

Americans have no inherent right to $2/gal gasoline.

[MacDuff]

43. Thank you...

Nice to see somebody here understands the underlying reality of the situation...

For those of you who don't - please jump over to the Oil Drum and click on the "first time here" link for an overview of what is happening and why....

[tritsofme]

44. Wholesale gasoline closed at $2.30/gallon today.

Oil companies aren't going to charge less than they paid for it, shortages will arise, and we will be back to the long gas lines of the 70s.

[TX-RAT]

47. Refinery's are paying 1.81 a gallon, for a barrel of crude.

Jobbers are hitting it for another .50, then tax's hit it again.

[B Calm]

45. The republican controled congress looked into price gouging and

they didn't find any gouging...

[TX-RAT]

54. Hard to say who's doing the gouging

Tx refinery's are paying 1.81 a gallon for raw crude.
They sell it for 2.33
The state hits it for .20 in tax
The retailers are selling it for 2.89 to 3.00

Just my opinion but it looks like the gougers are the foreign producers. Don't know what you could do about that.

[deaniac21]

48. Nixon would have done so.

[Ian_rd]

55. That's exactly what we HAVE: Bush Administration policy designed

to increase oil prices, and hence, oil executive bonuses. It's just a new kind of regulation: Republican Regulation.

[Initech]

56. Considering the oil industry owns our government, never gonna happen.

[B Calm]

57. The Bush administration's ties to the oil and gas industry

are beyond extensive; they are
pervasive. They flow, so to speak, from the top, with a chief executive who grew up steeped in the
culture of Texas oil exploration and tried his hand at it himself; and a second-in-command who came
to office with a multi-million dollar retirement package in hand from his post of CEO of
Halliburton Oil. Once in office, the vice president developed an energy policy under the primary
guidance of a cast of oil company executives whose identities he has gone to great lengths to
withhold from public view.

more: http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/2003/msg00001.html