The Religion Equation in the current chaos on the news.

[Philosoraptor]

Can the crisis in the middle east between Israel and Lebanon and Palestine and Iran ever be discussed without the religion equation?

Can it be seen from a secular angle, in terms of a land for land war, or a war of conquest, will it always be a matter of ancient religious hatreds?

Would this be going on at all if it were not for the three dominant religions in the area?

Can it be compared to all ancient and ongoing religious wars all through history, like the Hindus and the Muslims, and the Sunnis and the Shias?

I wish we could somehow remove the religious equation and see if peace is ever possible in that and other regions torn by the gods.

[slide to the left]

1. for the record

Jews and Muslims got along just fine in Palestine until the 1920s. The Jews that lived there didn't like the influx of people any more than the Muslims. It became religious in 1948.

[gatorboy]

6. Was that why Britian prevented an influx of Holocaust survivors

from reaching Palestine after the war?

[htuttle]

2. I think it really *IS* about land, and WATER and oil

...and access to all of the above.

Much like in the troubles in Northern Ireland, I think the religious dimension is mostly used to rile up each side's followers.

So yes, I think the core of the conflict would still be going on without religion being involved, but it probably wouldn't widen so quickly.

[Recursion]

3. Religion is a red herring

There is a lot of people there, it's very hot, and there is not enough water and arable land for everyone. That's why there's always fighting there.

[Philosoraptor]

4. You don't think its a factor at all?

I mean, you may be right, but its hard for me to see it without the ancient grudges.

They seem so obsessed with holy walls and holy temples and holy shrines and who says god gave it to who and when.

[Recursion]

7. Yes, but...

...I think they are only so important to people when there are not enough resources to go around.

[longship]

5. Both sides openly say "God gave us this land."

Religion is at the very core of the matter.
The whole bunch of them are lunatics, on both sides.

[DELUSIONAL]

8. That sums up my take on the history of the area also

Years ago I took a Political Science course -- International Politics -- there were Israeli Jews and Palestinians and others from the region in the class.

It was the Americans in the class who were the most dogmatic -- on the side of the Israeli --

The Instructor acted as a moderator of sorts -- bringing in the history of the region the geography.

Students from the region responded rationally to the discussion -- the Americans were just plain jerks.

I see Americans today acting the same way -- responding emotionally to the projected image of Israel the perpetual victim -- rather than seeing the whole picture and learning the history of this very ancient conflict.

This is a blood feud -- Hatfield and McCoy -- Middle Eastern version.

[HardRocker05]

9. Religion is intertwined with the conflict and the cultures that glorify

the struggle against infidels. The Bible and the Quran are thoroughly built on the foundation of a "chosen people" making almost continuous war against against neighboring infidels and "evil-doers." Centuries of this kind of history can not be ignored, and the conflict be reduced to some simple economic issues.