Wonder why there wasn't more social unrest during the Great Depression?

[raccoon]

I know there was some, but it seems like there would have been a lot more.

Maybe there was a lot and the media just didn't cover it? It was hushed up?

And of course communications in those days were relatively primitive.

I read once, wish I could remember the source:

"The Great Depression left a lot of people disillusioned. Another depression will leave America's cities in ashes."

[originalpckelly]

1. You have NO idea.

Really. Honestly.

[raccoon]

7. Maybe you didn't intend it, but your post comes across as

arrogant.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. My dad was a Wobblie.

I never knew him without the limp he had from when a cop busted his knee during a strike.

There was a lot of social unrest during and prior to the Great Depression. It's a very important part of history, IMHO. A lot of it's been ignored and shut up though, due to the powers that be.

[raccoon]

4. Gosh, I'm sorry that happened to him. nt

[Joe for Clark]

3. It got pretty bad, there.

You're right about the communications being poor.

I really think the times were defined by the bonus marchers - when Mcarther open fire on our WWI vets asking for their promised bonuses - and burned their tent cities. Shame on him.

They just didn't have TV (or the internet). They fired on OUR vets, you know???

Joe

[pooja]

5. There are a couple of reasons...

1. No internet
2. There were more people able to "live off the land"... my grandmother was in the country.. They grew vegetables, canned things for the winter, used maple sugar as a sugar substitution (Vermont I remind you). They had less expectations, so they didn't mind a little less. Could you imagine telling your child there is no t.v., no internet, you only get a couple of play clothes (something usually a little snug), 1 suday outfit, and 2 outfits for school. It was a different time. I don't even think my granmother had indoor plumbing when she was a little girl.. I know she still has a couple of bed pans hanging around the old house.

[JuniperLea]

19. I heard a lot of those stories when I was a kid begging for some toy

They made their underwear out of flour sacks, made lye soap from beef tallow and ashes, put cardboard inside shoes to cover holes and only wore shoes when absolutely necessary to conserve shoe leather, hems on pants and dresses went up and down over the years so three or four different kids could use them... the way my grandma described it, their household of 16+ made the Waltons look like the Rockefellers...

[Dr.Phool]

6. History books tend to ignore it.

I remember that the '20s and '30s was an era of a lot of social unrest, strikes, unionizing, and widespread socialist thought. Then it just seemed to disappear.

After reading Howard Zinn's "A Peoples History of the United States, 1492-Present". I found out that all the radicals and union orgaizers were handd 50-60 year prison sentences, on trumped up and false charges.

Great book. Explains a lot, in great fetail.

[raccoon]

8. Jeez louise--50-60 years........

I've got to read that book.

[Howardx]

15. yep great book

all kinds of stuff you werent taught in school

[ngant17]

22. Zinn's "People's History of US" should be standard textbook in school

I keep his history book on my shelf as a reference when I need it. If you like audio, there's a 6-vol. CD, "The People's History Project, Vol. I", which is something like a complement to his book. It's a little more pricey, at $45, so I haven't bought it yet myself. akpress.org has all of the other Zinn books, DVDs and CDs if you can't find them anywhere else.

[Just Me]

9. There was a LOT of social unrest: violence, crime, union-busting,....

,...suicides, suffering, so much suffering. History books rarely touch the parts and pieces of humanity associated with events over time.

[MadHound]

10. Actually there was a LOT of social unrest in the US

The thing is that a great deal of it has been glossed over by history. It wasn't all a matter of bread lines and New Deal projects, there were a lot of bitter people out there, pissed and not caring what became of themselves. Riots were common, brutal strikes, the emergence of political movements and themes that reverberate to this day. For instance, do you know that the Socialist Party became such a threat to FDR that he felt he had to steal a couple of their party planks in order to win re-election. Those two planks? Unemployment Insurance and Old Age Insurance(better known as Social Security).

There was much questioning of the status quo, and questioning of capitalism during the Great Depression. In fact in many ways it was a nadir of leftist politics that would never be reached until thirty years later in the late sixties.

But sadly, most of that has been wiped from the history books. You can hear it in the echoes of Woody Guthrie, or read about it in obscure history books. But for the most part, what we're taught about the Great Depression is glossed over pabulum, a Waltonized version where everybody has enough to eat, a place to sleep, and nobody, but nobody is ever pissed off enough to take to the streets.

Sad, because there is so much that we should, could have learned from that time period.

[Double T]

11. Fear, Fear, and More Fear.......

what do you think the Halliburton detention camps are going to be used for?????

[roamer65]

12. FDR

Franklin Delano Roosevelt. He was the right man for the right time. If Hoover had been put back into office, the country would have fallen apart.

[Joe for Clark]

14. It was the day Hoover ordered MCarther to fire on our vets,

That was the day, reportedly, FDR knew he won.

And he did.

[benddem]

25. there is a film

being made for PBS on the Bonus Army. It will air on Veteran's day.

[Joe for Clark]

27. Thanks. I am looking forward to it.

Joe

11/11/06 - the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month -
I always thought that was a great day to end a war. I guess any day is a good day to end war, too.

Thanks,

Joe

[raccoon]

45. Hoover should've been tried for that. Or impeached.

But the power elite would never have let that happen.

[FloridaPat]

13. It was left out of the history books. You can't have little patriotic

robots running around if they read stories about the common people fighting the big bad got't wolf. I took a tour of a national park in GA that talked about all the peace marches they had during the Civil War. I was impressed. Thought that was a new thing.

[Joe for Clark]

18. Personally, I didn't know they did that in Georgia.

I am now impressed with Georgia. I can almost forgive the Braves for beating the Pirates in the 90s - almost.

In fact, I am impressed that you knew there were peace marches during the civil war, at all.

There were marches, north and south. Alot of people didn't think much of war for settling anything, even then.

Good for Georgia!! Gov Joe Brown - I thought he just wanted out of the war (Civil War) for monetary reasons - maybe not.

Anyway, good for the National Parks Services for speaking truth to power.

Thanks, ForidaPat

Joe

[FloridaPat]

30. Actually they were talking about the peace marches in the northern

cities. NYC and Chicago. But the park is in Georgia. I can't remember the name of it now, but when I lived in Tennessee I went there often. It was a big battle during the Civil War.

But Georgia is a neat state. I lived in Atlanta for 6 months and loved it. They have so many flowers in the spring time, my car turned yellow with the pollen. The people are real nice too.

[Joe for Clark]

35. Hi Florida Pat -

You mean Chickamogua. I doubt I spelled that right.

It was on the line of the rebel retreat after Chatanooga.

I want to go there one day. I do also want to see Shiloh, one day.

I think the people are very nice down south, my experience goes to only Richmond, however.

I am surprised park rangers talked openly about the "peacenicks" north and south that were around then, I really am.

They sure didn't do that around Richmond, I can tell you that!!

Anyway, I am glad you know.

Joe

[FloridaPat]

44. That's the place! Thanks. They have a program in the visitor

center and the peace marches are actually in the program for everyone to learn about. THe first time I went they were have a Civil War re-enactment. They are really neat to see. The people talk about what it was like for the soldiers in those days. The uniforms were made of wool. Warm in the winter and cool in the summer! All sorts of neat things. What a waste of people though. So many dead.

[bobbieinok]

16. similar to many people not wanting to take welfare when it came on-line??

I've read that a lot of people thought if they needed outside help that meant they were 'bad people' so even if it meant the children might be hungry they found it very difficult to accept help.

ALSO, there was a much lower level of expectation of what was necessary to live. In the 70s my Am Assn of Univ Women group had an ongoing discussion about the Great Depression and what would happen if there were another; most thought another Great Depression would lead to horrendous riots, etc, b/c society and the level of expectation is so much different now.

ALSO, I've found 'hidden' history of the depression era in stories/histories of tramps and 'riding the rails.' One suggestion there was that older children left home so that younger ones would have more. BTW, that's the family story about my grandfather who came to US from Switzerland in the late 1800s; it's said that he and a cousin left home so that the younger children would have more. (That was before tourism became a major industry in Switzerland. As I understand it, most families lived on subsistence-level farming.)

BTW, did you ever check out the strong socialist influence in IA and OK (and probably other very surprising places) from ca 1900 to 1930s??? I think at least one small IA town had a socialist mayor.

edited for punctuation

[DeBunk]

17. There was a great deal. It was reported, just not remembered

I did a paper in College about it.

There was a lot. There were riots, boycotts, arrests. The whole nine. At the time the socialist party in the US was at it's high point.

Here some info:

http://www.lib.umich.edu/spec-coll/radicaldepression/topic_index_organizations.html

Here's something from the library of congress:

Blaming Wall Street speculators, bankers, and the Hoover administration, the rumblings of discontent grew mightily in the early 1930s. By 1932, hunger marches and small riots were common throughout the nation.

However, not all citizens were caught up in the social eruptions. Many were too downtrodden or busy surviving day to day to get involved in public displays of discontent.

http://memory.loc.gov/learn/features/timeline/depwwii/depress/depress.html

[Joe for Clark]

23. Those are great links DeBunk.

Joe

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. There was a very considerable amount of social unrest here

and elsewhere (the Depression wasn't limited to the U.S.). Socialism and Communism were becoming more popular precisely because so many people were so poor and powerless -- and some historians have posited that Roosevelt's New Deal actually saved capitalism because those welfare programs prevented "the masses" from trying to overthrow the government.

[Terran1212]

21. Read Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States

Unlike establishment media, he actually goes out of his way to show the resistance of normal folks to things like the Depression, which was vast.

[Vidar]

24. Macarthur's use of tanks on the bonus army got a lof of press.

[Joe for Clark]

28. I wonder how many people could answer such a

question correctly. You say bonus - I bet you get Wheel of fortune as the related category.

Sad.

Thanks for spelling Macarthur right for me - I kept missing the a (for asshole) Macarthur -

We don't think too highly of him in my family, I guess.

[pitohui]

26. because starving people don't have time for that

if you have ever been hungry, you quickly learn what a number it does on your energy

ill and hungry, fuggedaboutit

[pretzel4gore]

29. gotta mention Huey Long...

Huey was the govner of Louisiana, and he improved the lot of the poor, including the black people, of his state, by insisting that the oil co's pay decent royalties on their earnings, sorta like Hugo Chavez (:))...history, or is it hushtory, has effectively buried Huey Long, along with much of the truth about the great depression....Huey said, in the roaring 20's era, that $1 million was tops for anyone's private wealth, and not a cent more! And! Ever since, the system has quietly shut down any info about Huey Long (and i notice there are no lack of DU'ers to accuse him of being corrupt) beyond the same sorta crap Chavez (or Clinton/Gore/Kerry)) were accused of...Huey was murdered in 1935, at height of depression (he probably win the '36 presidential election, which he planned to contest with Roosevelt)...anyone who cannot see that Huey Long was a HERO....well, there's another bush getting lined up for WH, so maybe someday they'll learn(?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huey_Long

[Joe for Clark]

31. Huey Long was a good man - I'd never put him in the same

sentence as Chavez, though.

I am absolutely certain too, if FDR did not not prvail in 1936 - you'd be saying that in German now. However much a polulist Long was - he in no way had the foresight to take on Germany - and FDR did. Thank God FDR won.

There was talk at that time he was going to challenge FDR- I don't think he could have won. AND I AM SURE GLAD HE DIDN'T.

Sure you are too.

Joe

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. Huey was interviewed by Roy Wilkins.

Roy Wilkins interviewed Huey P. Long for The Crisis in February, 1935.

"How about lynching. Senator? About the Costigan-Wagner bill in congress and that lynching down there yesterday in Franklinton..."

He ducked the Costigan-Wagner bill, but of course, everyone knows he is against it. He cut me off on the Franklinton lynching and hastened in with his "pat" explanation:

"You mean down in Washington parish (county)? Oh, that? That one slipped up on us. Too bad, but those slips will happen. You know while I was governor there were no lynchings and since this man (Governor Allen) has been in he hasn't had any. (There have been 7 lynchings in Louisiana in the last two years.) This one slipped up. I can't do nothing about it. No sir. Can't do the dead nigra no good. Why, if I tried to go after those lynchers it might cause a hundred more niggers to be killed. You wouldn't want that, would you?"

"But you control Louisiana," I persisted, "you could..."

"Yeah, but it's not that simple. I told you there are some things even Huey Long can't get away with. We'll just have to watch out for the next one. Anyway that nigger was guilty of coldblooded murder."

"But your own supreme court had just granted him a new trial."

"Sure we got a law which allows a reversal on technical points. This nigger got hold of a smart lawyer somewhere and proved a technicality. He was guilty as hell. But we'll catch the next lynching."

My guess is that Huey is a hard, ambitious, practical politician. He is far shrewder than he is given credit for being. My further guess is that he wouldn't hesitate to throw Negroes to the wolves if it became necessary; neither would he hesitate to carry them along if the good they did him was greater than the harm. He will walk a tight rope and go along as far as he can. He told New York newspapermen he welcomed Negroes in the share-the-wealth clubs in the North where they could vote, but down South? Down South they can't vote: they are no good to him. So he lets them strictly alone. After all, Huey comes first.

Anyway, menace or benefactor, he is the most colorful character I have interviewed in the twelve years I've been in the business.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. The country was really near a revolution/civil war.

My father and his brother both cussed FDR for stopping the revolution that they were working for as union organizers during the depression. He co-opted, and watered down, the left-wing agenda enough to save the country from what could have been a very messy revolution/civil war. As it was, there was plenty of bloodshed and violence in those days. My father carried around a part of a knife blade that a scab broke off in his head.

[PassingFair]

33. My Hero, Eugene Debs...

"On June 16, 1918 Debs made an anti-war speech in Canton, Ohio, protesting World War I, and was arrested under the Espionage Act of 1917. He was convicted, sentenced to serve twenty years in prison and disenfranchised for life.

Debs made his best-remembered statement at his sentencing hearing:

Your Honor, years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free."

They RUINED his HEALTH and his LIFE for a SPEECH!

From Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs

[PeaceProgProsp]

34. Because Roosevelt cared about working people.

[Joe for Clark]

36. This country has a greater debt due him then any other

president, (except maybe G Washinton).

And the truth is - if there was an election today between FDR, Washington and say Lincoln??

I vote FDR hands down.

There was a great dark age coming and he is responsible for saving us from our worst instincts as a world.

He really did care about us normal people - he really did.

Joe

[treestar]

38. Because people are basically good and will put up with an amazing

and incredible amount of crap before they start hurting other people.

The Soviets and the Chinese had Revolutions. But maybe in the US people believed the system would not fail them.

In the long run, maybe it didn't.

[CanSocDem]

39. Has Woody Guthrie been forgotten??

Just last week I saw that movie of his life with David Carradine as Woody. In Saskatchewan we had a similar violent over-reaction by the mounties on a group of unemployed marchers from across the country.

http://us.geocities.com/emithsilas/depressionhistory.html

Hunger March of 1932

On March 3rd of 1932 4,000 unemployed workers, squatters, and hobos marched through the city to protest the policy of cutting single men off relief if they refused to go to work camps. City council declined to meet with them and police on foot and horseback charged the group with clubs. The marchers used their flag and banner poles as lances, fighting back and defending themselves, sending 2 police officers to the hospital.

[Bridget Burke]

48. Woody is the subject of a PBS "American Masters" program.

It just aired in Houston, but I'm hoping for reruns. And the DVD will eventually go on sale. Lots of info here:

www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/guthrie_w.html

[RamboLiberal]

40. There was quite a bit of social activism, Communist party

was quite well organized in US. Labor strife was rampant. Etc. As other mentioned much of it doesn't appear in the history books or documentaries. And I think FDR made a helluva lot of brilliant moves and his fireside chats to control the situation. Imagine if we had idiot boy in charge during that time!

Another story I don't think is well-covered is the opposition for the U.S. from many people and pols - especially Repubs - to getting involved in WWII. I hate the way the wingnuts now do revisionist history and never mention it was the conservatives and Repukes who didn't want to fight Hitler and even supported him. They act as if the people of their ilk would've marched right off to fight Hitler.

Thom Hartmann recommends this book which is eye-opening. The Illustrious Dunderheads by Rex Stout. Has lot of the floor speeeches quotes from lawmakers - mostly Repub - arguing against American intervention in WWII.

[Joe for Clark]

42. Good post Rambo -

Sure seems to me there weren't too many rebublican officers in WWII - very few.

Sure not in combat.

Guess they were waiting for the second coming of Christ, or something, cause they sure weren't fighting.

You know where a republican fighter pilot went after the bulge?? - -AWOL -
Cause the the FDR pilots would have kicked the snot out of him - and that is a fact.

And some did get the snot kicked out them, I understand.

Anyway, good post.

Joe

[Bridget Burke]

47. The "Communist" link caused much of this history to be suppressed.

The US Communists had little idea of what Stalin was really up to. And many who were not party members were "contaminated" by attending the occasional meeting or working on a common cause. Even being a "premature anti-Nazi" was considered a crime during the witch-hunting days of the late 40's & 50's.

[Cha]

41. They were too

faint from hunger?

[leesa]

43. Many were accustomed to being poor. My Dad had 9 siblings and both

his parents died within two years of each other at the start of the Great Depression. The youngest child was one and the oldest 18. They lived on a dirt "farm" in Minnesota. They took care of each other after his parents died. He remembers porridge 3 times a day and eating road tar in summer to ease the hunger pains. When he was drafted into WWII he thought K rations were heavenly.

People were poor BEFORE the depression.

[raccoon]

46. Yes, a lot of people were. My mother's family were a lot like that.

Six kids, a very small farm, and they were dirt poor before the Depression.