Here's what could work, but won't happen (regarding Wars)

[hopeisaplace]

(Lonestarnot suggested I repost this on it's own from a thread below...so here I go):



It may not prevent wars, but it will sure keep them as an absolute last resort.

1. Mandatory EDUCATION for EVERY person on the planet. Mandatory to learn history.
2. Mandatory to learn and understand all cultures.
3. Eradicate poverty.
4. Get rid of the the MASSIVE divide between the haves and the have-nots.
5. Leaders elected & required by GLOBAL LAW to lead while having respect for other countries.
6. A spirit of generosity promoted globally.
7. Global freedom of religion and an absolute separation of church and state in every
country on the planet. <---yah, like that'll ever happen!
8. Each citizen of the planet must donate a percentage of their time annually to the good
of the planet, ie: (environmental work, volunteer work, tutoring the young, teaching their
specialty to others, etc.)

I know, this WILL NEVER happen.

There needs to be a global shift of consciousness, and this won't happen unless
big ideas are tossed out. So there you have some big ideas.

War sucks. Mankind is a really stubborn student. The definition of crazy is doing the
same thing and expecting a different result.

[lonestarnot]

1. Beeeautiful! I love solutions!

[hopeisaplace]

2. I like the way you think :)

makes me :)
and smiles keep us young and hopeful.

[Bluerthanblue]

5. K&R- Good Thoughts- real solutions to real problems-

;-)

[Massacure]

3. Pretty vague

/* Massacure kicks the soapbox out of underneath HopeIsAPlace

Time to get back to our lives now and quit dreaming. :P

[lonestarnot]

6. what is massacure?

[Massacure]

9. It's easy to make a list.

How to implement it is another story.

[lonestarnot]

35. I didn't see your fucking list, nor did I see your proposal for

implementation of scraping the catshit out of the box. :putup:

[hopeisaplace]

8. Who was it that said "I have a dream"

:P

Flash forward 2000 years..I'm a genius :P quoted in all text books

[lonestarnot]

37. LOL, now don't go getting the bighead.

[hopeisaplace]

40. Ok. Ok. Ok. for some here, this thread is "I have a nightmare"

:cry: :shrug: :nuke:

lol :)

[lonestarnot]

44. Well fuck'em.

:* :silly: I'm not trying to entertain anyone. I was hoping for more solution responses.

[SlipperySlope]

4. I'm sure you wrote this with good intent...

I'm sure you wrote this with good intent, but it reads like a recipe for totalitariansim to me.

1 = Mandatory indoctrination
5 = Global law means a global government
8 = Forced labor

Those aren't tools I would want to put in the hands of any government.

[lonestarnot]

7. What is 158?

[SlipperySlope]

10. those are the numbers in the OP's list.

[lonestarnot]

14. Oh yes.

1. Mandatory EDUCATION for EVERY person on the planet. Mandatory to learn history.
2. Mandatory to learn and understand all cultures.
3. Eradicate poverty.
4. Get rid of the the MASSIVE divide between the haves and the have-nots.
5. Leaders elected & required by GLOBAL LAW to lead while having respect for other countries.
6. A spirit of generosity promoted globally.
7. Global freedom of religion and an absolute separation of church and state in every
country on the planet. <---yah, like that'll ever happen!
8. Each citizen of the planet must donate a percentage of their time annually to the good
of the planet, ie: (environmental work, volunteer work, tutoring the young, teaching their
specialty to others, etc.)

1 = Mandatory indoctrination
5 = Global law means a global government
8 = Forced labor


1. What is so wrong with mandatory education. Education does not necessarily mean indoctrination. If it is factual education, I do not see how that would be considered indoctrination. If the education is well rounded, with tons of contributors, it cannot be qualified as indoctrination.

5. Global law is maybe a minomer for global cooperation. Global cooperation will become more prominent as we near extinction.

8. Forced labor. Bullshit! Everyone must do something to survive, even if it's living off someone elses labor. No free fucking rides available, but for those with the silver spoons, and they will also be in the extinction boat, making them more willing to share and cooperate. Forced labor appears to be contribution to the global community and should be a requirement for every human being. Earth gives life by providing the basics. So a requirement for a human to give back something should be mandatory, or that human should not be provided the basics.

ok I'm done now.

[hopeisaplace]

15. rock on, you're making me smile again

:pals:

[lonestarnot]

16. rock'n! This is fun!

[lonestarnot]

17. check 14 and tell me what you think

[hopeisaplace]

22. love it...especially the giving back to the planet reasons (8)

actually, our school system requires that each student complete
40 hours of volunteer work before they graduate - otherwise
they don't graduate. (I'm in Ontario...US States must have this
as well though).

[lonestarnot]

24. OMG that someone should have to do mandatory service to

the community for a couple hours every year. Isn't that just such a fucking back breaker. Shit, you would think that someone may as well have been sentenced to life w/o parole.

[hopeisaplace]

46. lol !!

:rofl:

[hopeisaplace]

12. hmmm...well I'm willing to make modifications

1. We can do something "incentive" oriented to ensure countries educate their people
instead of starve them to death.

5. The global constitution is signed on by all countries, agreed by all - all for one
and one for all.

8. Forced Labor (roflmao)...ok....we can adjust the wording.

[SlipperySlope]

75. It just scares me...

When I look at proposals like this, I always imagine a scenario along these lines. First, a wise and peaceful government is given certain powers to keep the peace. Then the public gets lazy, and fails to elect a wise government, and tyrants slip in. Then I imagine what tyrants could do with the powers that had been granted to a more benevolent government.

I believe there is an ebb and flow in the world. I believe that tyrants will come and go. I believe that the best way to deal with tyrants is to insure that when they do come into power, their ability to do damage is limited by limiting their powers.

Once you give one government the power to force people to volunteer labor for public service for the good of the community, I fear a later government can force people to "volunteer" their labor to different tasks "for the good of the community".

Put differently, how would you feel if TODAY's administration had the power to:
+ determine what social message schools would teach
+ determine what labor people would be required to do

That would be terrifying.

[Erika]

11. What are you anyway? A progressive Christian? n/t

[hopeisaplace]

13. I'm really pissed off with religion these days, but I'm not against

decency, kindness, generosity, etc...

[whitedove]

19. Great Post!

Lets add, working for Peace and Love to all!
Wouldn't it be wonderful to see all the children laughing and playing. Parents not worried about bombs, war, feeding, clothing, housing and health insurance for these children... We have to pray for PEACE!

What are doing to make the change?

Peace,
Lisa

[lonestarnot]

18. What you have no hope? No suggestions for improvement either.

Attack attack attack, not so positive.

[hopeisaplace]

20. you're making me laugh

:toast:

[lonestarnot]

21. I'm serious as a pile of catshit. We need more offers of solutions

and yours may not be perfect, but at least you are thinking of a way to solve the shit rather than pile more on the top. :toast:

[hopeisaplace]

23. I hear ya...:)

"pile of catshit" lol :)

[lonestarnot]

25. well since we are the only posters here, I don't think many are

interested in solutions. Just like lala raw raw's concern over the summit on human rights post. I think we are in for worse than we are currently witnessing, and not many are willing to sit and think of solutions, especially if they involve work or committment. Most people suck. x(

[whitedove]

28. No!

I am willing to fight, we are fighting for our rights. There must be a bunch of us. I will fight till I die, then I will continue to fight for your rights.

Peace, love and Light!
Lisa

[lonestarnot]

33. Yeah Whitedove!

:applause: I love a fighter, even though I love the concept of peace.

[hopeisaplace]

30. well, the world is such a self-inflicted-political mess.

People probably think it's hopeless...or the only way to resolve the
escalating situation is to "hold their ground" "shake their fists"
"drop more bombs" - which to me is NUTS. But hey. Which is crazier,
educating everyone (and I liked your expansion of this in post 14),
or killing everyone. Ok not everyone.

[lonestarnot]

34. Education is definite key to door #3, the one most of us want to open

for a peaceful life.

[The_Casual_Observer]

26. Where is the profit motive?

It would never fly.

[lonestarnot]

27. Profit by sustaining life on the fucking planet.

[The_Casual_Observer]

29. That's a pretty radical concept, yet untried.

[lonestarnot]

31. There is an interesting little book called Bola Bola, ever read it?

It has unique proposed solutions. I read it several years back for a justice class. But it is timeless and very interesting. I keep coming back to it when I hear various proposals for solutions to the humongous problems we are facing. You might want to check it if you haven't read it.

[The_Casual_Observer]

42. Thanks for the tip. I could use some uplifting material for a change.

:toast:

[lonestarnot]

45. It's a quick read, hope you enjoy it.

[hopeisaplace]

32. I shouldn't laugh, but you make me laugh...you're right

no people left to buy shit. No profit.
I think I'm qualified to be an elected official now. :crazy: :P

[The2ndWheel]

36. Who says they expect anything different?

You and I have two very different ideas. You seem to want the scale of humanity to increase in size, where I'd rather see it shrink. Either way, conflict will be there. But in my mind, at least with a smaller scale, it couldn't be as bad(in terms of numbers).

You've got global law, eradicating poverty, education for everyone, and that means fewer people in control at the top, as you can have only so many cooks in the kitchen. Who gets put in that position? How? A global vote? We can't even get it right here. What police force enforces these laws? What happens if someone, or a group, doesn't want to do it?

I'm in agreement with Jared Diamond on agriculture. So that's where I'm coming from. Want a big idea? Get smaller. Scale it down. However, just like you realize the things you listed won't happen, I know we're not going to voluntarily stop expanding. Although I would say that I think we have a better chance to get closest to what's on your list, since we keep building larger and larger entities that control our lives.

[lonestarnot]

38. Who's Jared Diamond, and what did he say about ag?

[The2ndWheel]

41. The Worst Mistake In The History Of The Human Race

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/entertainment/jan-june98/diamond_4-17.html

http://www.sacredlands.org/jared_diamond_01.htm

To science we owe dramatic changes in our smug self image. Astronomy taught us that our earth isn't the center of the universe but merely one of billions of heavenly bodies. From biology we learned that we weren't specially created by God but evolved along with 11 millions of other species. Now archaeology is demolishing another sacred belief: that human history over the past million years has been a long tale of progress. In particular. recent discoveries suggest that the adoption of agriculture, supposedly our most decisive step toward a better life, was in many ways a catastrophe from which we have never recovered. With agriculture came the gross social and sexual inequality, the disease and despotism that curse our existence.

At first. the evidence against this revisionist interpretation will strike twentieth century Americans as irrefutable. We're better off in almost every respect shall people of the Middle Ages, who in turn had it easier shall cavemen. w ho in turn were better off than apes. Just count our advantages We enjoy the most abundant and varied foods, the best tools and material goods, some of the longest and healthiest lives, in history. Most of us are safe from starvation and predators. We get most of energy from oil and machines, not from our sweat. What neo-Luddite among us would trade his life for that of a medieval peasant, a caveman, or even an ape?

For most of our history we supported ourselves by hunting and gathering wild animals and foraged a life that philosophers have traditionally regarded as nasty, brutish and short. Since no food is grown and little is stored, there is (in this view) no respite from the struggle that starts anew each day to find wild foods and avoid starving Our escape from this misery was facilitated only 10.000 years ago, when in different parts of the world people began to domesticate plants and animals. The agricultural revolution gradually spread until today it's nearly universal and few tribes of hunter -gatherers survive.

[lonestarnot]

50. So what are you saying? We should dumb up in order to return

to hunter/gatherors? Or perpetuate the sins of science, education and knowledge?

[The2ndWheel]

72. I'm saying we're going to keep doing what we've been doing

We're either going to run out of resources, or we'll continue to expand. We're not returning to anything voluntarily. This is why the NSA will win, and will know everything about everyone eventually(if we have the resources for that to happen). Knowledge works for everyone. Once it's out, it's out. Your average everyday Joe can find out how to make a nuke, for example. We'll get further along in understanding the brain and how it works, which will help in terms of medicine and the like, but will also give corporations and governments(both of which only increase in size) incredible power over us. You can try to regulate that, but we have laws for murder, and that hasn't gone away.

Without agriculture, Shakespeare wouldn't have been possible, but neither would the Holocaust.

[hopeisaplace]

39. In terms of a Global Constitution....let me think...

Each country signs it. These days Sovereignty is threatened everyday for many
countries, so having all countries sign a document agreeing to be
"decent" <---keeping it simple, I'm tired) to each other that offers
them "protections" and "rights", isn't assigning someone to be god.

You want things smaller (less government). Education can be handled at
whatever level, state, municipal etc..The overall principle of every human
being mandated the right to an education - with fundamental basics in that
education covered - is the Big Rule. It's the leaders of the suffering, poor nations that
would need to come to the table on this one. Where does the money come from?
Maybe from the bloody armies and secret bank accounts that exist around the world
from the greedy pigs stealing from those in need <--just one thought.

Was watching Lou Dobbs the other day on the US drop-out rates based upon race,
and it was staggering. Why is it so high? Maybe it's hopelessness or it's
easier to raise a fist than it is to learn,..maybe some are so poor,
they can't finish school, they have to go to work for next to nothing and kiss their education goodbye. And so goes the cycle.

[jerry611]

43. Problems

I don't mean to rain on your parade or be a pessimist here...

1. Who teaches the history?
2. Again...who teaches the cultures?
3. Eradicate poverty how? No matter what kind of system you want to install, you will still have a lower class.
4. This is the same as number 3. I don't see how this is possible. You are wishing for a miracle.
5. You will have just as much war under "global law." There is a LOT of people against globalization. A LOT! And you will create numerous terror organizations and revolution parties.
6. Another miracle. As James Madison once said, "each person will only act when it is in their own best interest."
7. Good luck with that one...You can't even get people to pick up their own trash these days. I saw someone throwing trash out their car window today without any care at all.

[lonestarnot]

47. Another antagonist who offers nothing but knows how to criticize.

Why don't you attempt contributing? It's not that fucking difficult. Are you a fatalist? For each problem you listed, why don't YOU try to offer a solution?

[hopeisaplace]

49. My personal favorite saying is:

"do everything, expect nothing"

As it pertains to doing our bit in life

[lonestarnot]

51. Well I'm not going for that, because that would mean that there

will always be poverty, always be lower socio-economic stratus. Everyone has a different gift. Everyone has something to offer, if they were so motivated. What is the factor that motivates? Extinction should be motivation enough, although I don't really believe the human species will ever be extinct. I saw that someone offered smaller, I agree smaller is better. Greed is a learned behavior, it's not man's inherent nature. On edit, I think I'm getting tired. I left out what I was going to say about smaller is better, it was a small contribution, but it was better than nothing or worse a criticism to a proposed solution.

[jerry611]

53. Money is the motivating factor

Without money, no one would do anything...

That's just reality. Ask anyone who has a job if it wasn't for money, would they still be doing their job?

Everyone always says that they wish they could win the lottery. Why? So they can quit their job. People HATE to do any work at all. We are a lazy species. The only thing that motivates us to work is money. Because we need money to take care of our families and put food on the table. Again...self-interest.

[lonestarnot]

55. Not true. I love my job and I love to go do it.

I do things for free. I do things for the love of freedom, democracy and my country. I do things for free to help people. I know we need money, but a couple of days is not going to break anyone's budget in the scheme of things. No one is saying the entire workforce of America, or any other country should work for nothing. That is not realistic.

[jerry611]

56. I was reading a poll a few months back...

Something like 80% of Americans say they would fire their boss if they had the oppertunity. That pretty much says how little people love their job...

[lonestarnot]

63. I have a fantastic boss. I does make a difference. I don't know

what in the hell I would do if he retires. There is no one else like him on earth.

[hopeisaplace]

54. the saying pertains to

being completely service oriented...
not that our work wouldn't achieve anything

Sort of a way to approach our jobs/careers etc...
Just do. All else will fall into place.

[lonestarnot]

57. well I do expect things. I expect results from my work, I expect

payment for my services in order to survive. I expect respect when I give respect. I am not subserviant to service either. So I guess I would say that your saying is interesting. It would take a special individual to live like that.

[hopeisaplace]

60. I expect those things to (the respect thing, I believe is earned though)

It would pertain to this:

I'm working with a client...providing a service...caring about them,
caring that they get what they want, working to help them meet their needs...
and what I'm suppose to get in renumeration, I will automatically get because
I operated purely on the principle of doing well for them. Everybody wins.

(that's what this little saying pertains to)

[lonestarnot]

62. This is kind of fluffy to me. Renumeration is issued for the

performance of the social contract. It's a given that one will be paid for their services, unless one doesn't perform. One should always strive for their own best.

[hopeisaplace]

65. lol, not if you work on commission...you may do all of this and

still not get paid. So total focus on the process, the client becomes
essential...do everything, expect nothing.

Anyway, my hubby doesn't work on commission and sometimes guys he works
with "do nothing and expect everything" ...lol!

[lonestarnot]

67. You didn't need to tell me you were commissioned. I knew that.

[hopeisaplace]

68. actually been off for a few years...may go back

little one starts grade 1 this year :)

You insightful one you.

[lonestarnot]

70. Ahhhh I remember that first grade. A turning point in life.

Well hopeisaplace, I'm falling out, and it's finally getting cool in here. So I'm going to catch some shut-eye and check out the inside of my eyelids. Tomorrow we shall solve the world's problems! Here's to talking it over :toast: peace friend!

[rman]

73. I see more questions than criticism

And valid questions at that.

Seriously, it's one thing to suggest "eradicating poverty" as a solution to war, but it's another thing to actually offer suggestions as to how to eradicate poverty.

It's like saying that peace is the solution to war - but it's not very substantive as far as solutions go.

[hopeisaplace]

48. Well, we women didn't get the right to vote overnight either

...and could you imagine the discussion behind the scenes when that possibility
was being kicked around....

Anyway, I know what I said would never ever fly...but it's who I am inside,
so I'm projecting. :) Hope is a place.

[lonestarnot]

52. Yes it is. Hope is a good place, and I keep going there, because

I will never surrender. Never but never. Maybe that means I will never have true peace until I'm dead. LOL shit!

[hopeisaplace]

58. You know what, tomorrow smile at 3 people who are not

expecting it (not like a crazy smile or anything, LOL!!!)..just unexpected niceness
..and you may make their day and in the process make your own..
(I actually do stupid little things like this)

Try this. If you drive, when you're behind the wheel do not allow yourself to
mouth something nasty (under your breath or otherwise) to anyone fellow driver...
even if they have done something terrible. No one gets to rent space in your
head. No judging anyone for 24 hours. Don't judge anyone or anything for 24 hours.
It's very freeing. :)

[lonestarnot]

64. unfortunately, that is part of my job. LOL

[hopeisaplace]

69. you poor thing

:silly:

k. I'm off to bed. I can't believe I stayed up this late.
It was great talking with you, and I'll catch you on the next
nightmare that hits news (tomorrow probably).. :hug:


edit: icon

[sandnsea]

59. There's poorness, then there's starvation

Most developed countries don't have starvation, malnutrition related disease, polluted water and the like. Poverty in the US is not the same as third world poverty. We CAN eradicate abject poverty, we've done it here, it isn't even all that expensive.

I also object to your #6. People act for the benefit of others all the time. Still, it is in our own best interest to shift the priorities of this planet. The way we're going, we're going to either destroy it through pollution or blow ourselves up.

And seeing somebody throw trash out their window isn't a commentary about what people will or won't do when provided a clear plan to reduce their trash and dispose of it in an economically friendlier way.

[hopeisaplace]

61. I agree that a lot of people act in a spirit of generosity...

I was shooting for the big miracle, where it happens constantly
as a matter of a way of life for everyone in every country.
Like breathing, it's a given.

[lonestarnot]

66. People are starving in the U.S. not on a mass scale like South

Africa, but it is happening.

[Voltaire99]

71. Nice, but there's a quicker solution

While we're working on universal education and eliminating poverty, let's reinstitute the draft and fill the ranks of the army with lots of nice clean middle-class youth.

Instead of an army culled from the working poor, put in place one that is made up of the children of people with financial and hence political clout.

Think 75% of the nation would have backed invading Iraq if their darlings were the ones required to do it? Think they'd now politely oppose the war in opinion polls before going back to their TV?

[Lilith Velkor]

74. Why not just have the army attack our colleges?

That way, we could have just as much destruction and loss of life, with fewer international repercussions.

[Terran1212]

76. If any world leaders want to fight, get THEM in a boxing ring

and lock them up and throw away the key.