Cancel Columbus Day turns out the Chinese were here first....or maybe not

[underpants]

Ancient Map Suggests Chinese Discovered America

A newly discovered ancient Chinese map may prove that it was a Chinese navigator who first discovered America.
He may have made the discovery seven decades before Columbus stumbled upon the New World.

The map, which has gone on display in Beijing, is said to be a copy made in 1763 of a much older map dating back to 1418. It clearly depicts Africa, Europe and the Americas.


http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/2238/2006-1-17/[e-mail]

OR maybe not

Chinese map 'proving' China discovered Americas "a fake"

Beijing. January 17. INTERFAX-CHINA - It was announced a map bought for only USD 500 proves legendary Chinese explorer Zheng He discovered the Americas 75 years before Columbus. But the map was likely made in the last 20 years, a Chinese historian told Interfax.

"The map is a fake and was made in the last 20 years," Mao Peiqi, a history professor at Renmin University told Interfax.

Mao has seen a copy of the map and found clear errors which show the map maker didn't understand 18th century China, the time when the map was allegedly made
http://www.interfax.cn/showfeature.asp?aid=9286&slug=ZHENG%20HE%20CHINA%20DISCOVER%20AMERICA

[BlueJazz]

1. Well, it wouldn't matter anyway..

I mean, 30 minutes later they would have to discover it again. :evilgrin:

[benburch]

3. Harsh. nt

[ComerPerro]

2. I refuse to kick any related article without "Chinese Seamen" in the tilte

[Yollam]

4. I'm pretty sure it's a fake.

Look at how detailed it is. Way too accurate for a first survey, IMO.

Besides, hasn't it already been established that Leif Ericson and co. discovered the New World hundreds of years before the scumbag Cloumbus?

Also, why don't the asiatic folks who first crossed the Siberia-Alaska land bridged ever get credit for the discovery? I think giving the Charlatan Columbus credit is really pretty backwards when you consider that he wasn't even the first on his own ship to spot land...

[Bridget Burke]

9. The Siberian-Alaska Landbridge ("Beringia") was not the only early route

The study of the "Peopling of the Americas" is a hot, right now. Some interesting info here:
www.centerfirstamericans.com/

The Americas had been discovered several times before Columbus. But he began the European Conquest.

[mopaul]

5. sing along with me children,

in fourteen hundred and eighteen,
Ming's Zheng He sailed the ocean green,

[azndndude]

6. Who discovered America?

Wasn't it the Indigenous people that were here already?

[stellanoir]

8. Bingo

but in terms of Euro's or Orientals. . .

This tower is quite controversial but resembles some built in in Cornwall England that were constructed around the 13 century. Carbon dating on the morter suggests that it's not that old but no one knows if the mortar is original or a patch job. There is much speculation over this but funnily enough, it is located on property that was once Benedict Arnold's.

http://www.quahog.org/attractions/index.php?id=48

http://www.redwoodlibrary.org/tower/millmenu.htm

http://www.redwoodlibrary.org/tower/add.htm

[Ian David]

11. No, Adam and Eve rode here on their dinosaurs. n/t

[Bridget Burke]

7. There WERE Chinese explorers of the world before Columbus.

Gavin Menzies' book "1421: The Year the Chinese Discovered America" is an interesting read. It possibly conflates evidence & ties a lot of stories into one series of epic voyages. I wouldn't swallow the whole thing 100%, but some interesting facts are revealed.

www.1421.tv/

It is known that the Chinese had great ocean-going junks until a xenophobic emperor banned ocean voyaging. Some scholars have seen Chinese influence on Mesoamerican cultures. This would have been far earlier than the proposed voyages. The arts of our Northeastern peoples show more recent influence.

Stories of Pre-Columbian visits to our continents were long disdained by scholars. The topic has, indeed, attracted a fine gallery of eccentrics. But Norse remains WERE discovered in Newfoundland. More evidence may yet be discovered. But most early visitors probably visited once & returned with wild stories. (Brendan's Voyages were the last in a series of Irish travelers' tales--beginning in pagan times.) Or they came to settle & were absorbed into the population. The Chinese explorers described by Menzies planned to start trading posts--they were not European-style imperialists.

Columbus made his "discovery" when Europe was looking for new land & wealth. So his discovery "took."

[On the Road]

10. I Loved Gavin Menzies's Book

but after reading some criticism it became apparent how irresponsible he is in making most of his claims. He simply doesn't have the evidence to back up most of it, doesn't state how he came to many of his conclusions and does not distinguish between supported and unsupported assertions. It's too bad, because he discredited himself with serious historians, and it may take awhile for the subject to get the serious study it deserves.

Menzies has some compelling points. I think he may be correct in his basic belief that the Chinese were here in the early 15th century. The 1513 Piri Reis map was so inexplicable that some people were suggesting the information could only have come from aliens. His explanation of the underwater "road to nowhere" in the Caribbean makes perfect sense (he says it was used to drag boats to shore for repairs). His references to Columbus in Iceland ("men from Cathay were here") and Magellan's comments to his crew in Tierra del Fuego ("Don't be afraid -- I have a map.") make much more sense under his hypothesis. But others, like the tower in New England, are debatable and are not the best pieces of evidence to make his case.

The Chinese hypothesis makes perfect sense to me. I hope it's proven true.

[Bridget Burke]

12. Charles Michael Boland wrote "They All Discovered America"

In 1961. I read it while in high school & it stayed with me.

In it, he reviews most of the pre-Columbian discovery stories. Generally he doesn't pass judgement. He seems to think some are more likely than others--but even the less likely theories had some "interesting" proponents.

The Chinese were mentioned. I think it more likely that Chinese explorations took place over a longer time span than in Menzies' book. He seems to want to wrap up a lot of "loose ends" into one epic journey.

Here's a site about The Old Stone Mill. It's one of those places that has many interesting stories attached--who knows what's true? Apparently Longfellow's "Skeleton in Armor" began the "Norse theory" of its origin.

www.redwoodlibrary.org/tower/millmenu.htm