Dan Rather Stands By Controversial 60 Minutes Broadcast

[im10ashus]

The other night Dan Rather was back in center ring. In an hour long interview with CNN's Larry King. Rather spoke with quiet fury about the suits at CBS who treated him, a 44-year employee, so disgracefully. It turns out that at the end, it was the lawyers--not actor-turned corporate honcho Leslie Moonves--who told Rather "we just don't have a place for you." But, as Rather understood--as has anyone watching the networks these last years--CBS News is a cog in an entertainment company.

"There came a time," he told King (who also works for an entertainment company with a news division) " when I realized...that we were working for not CBS and not CBS News. We were working for Viacom News...a larger entertainment company....but I want to do news that matters. And so much of the news these days...it's so driven by ratings, so driven by demographics, so driven by, we used to be told stockholder value. It's driven by things other than the public interest. I want to do news that's fair and accurate, do it with integrity and I want to do it in the public interest."

In one of the more interesting exchanges, Rather talked about 60 Minutes's controversial broadcast about Bush's National Guard record.

King: "You're saying that was a fair report, I mean that was--you believe that report to this day?" Rather: Do I believe the truth of the story? Absolutely.

Rather added, "...We had a lot, a lot of corroboration..it wasn't just the documents. But it's a very old technique used when those who don't like what you're reporting, believe it can be hurtful, then they look for the weakest spot and attack it, which is fair enough." But, he added, " It's a diversionary technique."

cont'd...

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?bid=15&pid=101504

1. go get them Rather

King likes to party with the white house elite, so what does he care anyway.

[Dinger]

6. Is That Like, "Book 'em Dan-O"?

:)

[Sequoia]

15. Right on!

You go Dan!

[question everything]

2. Thanks for posting. Sorry I missed it

I've admired Rather since his days of covering the Nixon White House

Nixon: "Are you running for something?"

Rather: "No, Sir, Mister President. Are you?"

Yes, all the "news" network are nothing but entertainment with Katie Couric being the last nail at CBS, at least.

[AndyA]

9. Katie Couric will be the final nail in the coffin for CBS News.

Ratings will plummet, and it will likely take on an "ET - Entertainment Tonight" type of feel in an effort to gain viewers. No one looking for serious news is going to watch that fluff ball Katie Couric. She has no credibility. She is the female Ted Baxter.

Good bye, CBS News.

[Cha]

128. Now I know why

they hired her..entertainment.

I want Dan Rather to have the last laugh with "Dan Rather Reports", the hourly program, debuting in October with "hard edge field reports".

"Rather to Host 'Fearless' Show on HDNet

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, July 10, 2006; Page C07

Dan Rather is about to announce his comeback.
Snips~

Three weeks after being let go by CBS, the former anchor has agreed to launch a program called "Dan Rather Presents" on HDNet, the high-definition channel owned by billionaire entrepreneur Mark Cuban.

We are excited about it," Cuban, owner of the Dallas Mavericks basketball team, said yesterday. He described the show as "an opportunity to do news in what I like to call 'fearless mode,' what Dan calls 'with guts.' Go out there and find the stories we think will have impact."

Check out who had to write the article! HEHE!

More..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/09/AR2006070900779.html

[Endangered Specie]

134. Its really sad too...

I watched Dan Rather regularly, almost ritually.
AFAIC it was the last oasis of good 'private' American news (NPR and PBS are still hanging in there) in a sea of shit.

now its gone, and the day Katie shows up on screen will be the last day I watch it

[Dinger]

3. I Still Have Both 60 Minutes Episodes Recorded

The first one, and the one the follolwing week where the secretary said it was true as well. Dan Rather - my HERO!

[Cha]

129. That's History,

Dude! :toast:

[CottonBear]

4. No one has ever come forward to say that Bush was in the Guard in AL.

Garry Trudeau offered $10,000 to any witness to Bush's Guard service in Al. No one ever came forward to claim the money.

[im10ashus]

5. No kidding?

I love Trudeau. What a patriot. And nobody ever came forward is as sure a sign in this greedy country, IMHO.

[CottonBear]

8. No kidding.

I'm sure the Bush-Cheney cabal has threatened any one who might come forward.

[Virginian]

73. Why would they do that?

Bush says he was there but no one ever saw him there. If someone collected the money, it would prove Bush was telling the truth.
So no one in that Red State can vouch for Bush by collecting the 10K.

[Raster]

74. That's because there is NOT ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that supports

the bush* contention. Not one.

[bowens43]

7. despite the rants of the freeper types,

the documents were never shown to be inauthentic.

[CottonBear]

10. Exactly. n/t

[flamin lib]

16. Mapes found and bought a typewriter that performs all the

functions questioned and was manufactured before the dates on the memos.

I have the images of the docs downloaded and using a straight edge along the lines of type will show some letters elevated above the baseline. Ya' can't do that with a word processor.

[johnaries]

32. I was in the Army NG about the same time, and we had IBM

Selectrics which would do subscript, superscript, etc. Also, if you look at the document you will notice that the superscript is random. A Word processing program would be consistent. Only a manually typed letter would have random superscripts.

[cherokeeprogressive]

84. Two Words: Proportional Spacing

I hate to be a fly in the ointment here, but I have to piss in your Wheaties. While there might have been a typewriter that understood the difference between subscript and superscript, there WASN'T a typewriter at that time that understood how much space should be allotted to each INDIVIDUAL LETTER and SPACE. You see, a capital W takes up more space than a lower case i does. Have you ever heard of "Kerning"? You might want to look that one up if you've never heard the word. It's the practice of moving certain letters closer to others when hand typesetting is done so the letters aren't too far apart. What I'm getting at is the FACT that a TYPEWRITER allots the same amount of space to each letter, no matter whether it's a capital W or a lower case i. Using a typewriter, there is a FINITE number of letters that can fit on a single line. This is due to the FACT that typewriters DID NOT have the capability of PROPORTIONAL SPACING.

Cut to the twenty-first century: Computerized word processors such as Word, WordPerfect, Corel, and others have the capability of spacing letters according to their horizontal width. Take your ruler again, and figure out the margins on the page. Word uses 1.25" margins as it's default. Type the document in Word and you get the EXACT SAME words per line as are in the documents in question.

I want the * regime to end as much as any other person on the planet. But let's stop fooling ourselves and trying to fool everyone else. The documents were falsified, and no matter WHETHER THEY WERE FACTUAL OR NOT, they're not going to convict anyone of anything in a COURT OF LAW.

Adhering to their authenticity is foolish, and only serves to make us progressives look like raving lunatics who are so narrow minded that our very ideals can be called into question.

I'm just sayin'....

[Vitruvius]

93. You're dead wrong. The IBM Executive had proportional spacing

and was quite common. My thesis was typed on one (equations, superscripts, subscripts, and all), so I should know.

So next time be more careful before you use words like "raving lunatic" on others.

Vitruvius

P.S: The first model Executive, with proportional spacing, was introduced in 1944. Proportional spacing on typewriters was an old and established technology by the time Bush was blowing off his military obligation.

[Jim Sagle]

107. We've been freeped.

;)

[Major Hogwash]

109. Ker-plunk! Yepper, proportional spacing was not a space-age development

You're absolutely correct.

My mom graduated from high school in 1948 and the first job she got out of high school was as a typist for a local doctor and he owned an IBM typewriter that used proportional spacing clear back then!

Didn't have to be George Jetson to wait for that development!

[megatherium]

113. I looked at the pdf of the memo. Printed out, it aligned absolutely

exactly with my own hand-typed version on Microsoft Word (with all the defaults for formatting and font left alone). I mean, to the point. (A "point" being 1/72nd of an inch.)

So in my humble opinion, Rather got scammed. He probably fell for it because he knew from other sources that Bush did not serve in Alabama. The Republicans understood that if they could succeed in a stunt like this, it would discredit a powerful adversary and it would deflect attention away from the real story, which was Bush being absent from his Alabama Guard service. The fact that the Republicans succeeded in this reflects poorly on Rather and did significant damage to this country.

[FlaGranny]

123. I used one of those Selectrics WITH proportional spacing,

so you are wrong.

[Yupster]

116. It doesn't matter

whether there was one or there wasn't, or if Bush was in the Guard or he wasn't.

The story was bul*sh$t journalism and Mapes and Rather were right to be fired for it.

Before the story was published, Mapes knew she got the memos from a "Bush hater," who wouldn't tell her straight where he got them from.

She sent the memos to four handwriting experts for analysis.

One never got back to her.

Another said he would only analyse a single signature since they were copies rather than originals and he coudn't analyse copies as to date, etc. This guy's name was Matley and he was from San Fransisco. Rather went out and filmed an interview for airing but he had so many caveats and warnings that his interview wasn't aired in the story.

One of the examiners put out big red warning lights and said wait. Emily Will pointed out the raised th and said she'd need a lot more info before they could verify the memos. She sent e-mail after e-mail to everyone at CBS saying not to run the story. She said the signature did not look right to her. She also said one page didn't look like a military record. She said she was concerned about the lack of letterhead. She also noted the raised th and the proportional spacing.

The fourth examiner, Linda James of Texas then submitted her report. She also said the signature didn't look right, she was concerned about the th.

Mapes was famous for her Abu Grabe story and Roger Charles was the retired Marine Colonel who helped her produce those stories about the prison pictures. He also saw the memos and said the formats were all wrong for military documents of that age.

So armed with all that info, Mapes and Rather went on air with the story in the middle of an election campaign. They also called the Kerry campaign and put Joe Lochhart in touch with Burkett, the guy who came up with the momos.

On the air Rather said he had consulted experts who agreed the documents were accurate. He wouldn't name the experts. They eventually came forward one at a time and each said they did not at all say the documents were accurate. On the contrary they warned Mapes and Rather that they had serious misgivings about the documents.

CBS eventually put out a press release saying they didn't rely on the opinions of either James or Will for their story. No duh there. But then who did they rely on?

Eventually Marion Knox, the 86 year old former secretary was found who also said the document was fake. She did however say she remembered doing a similar document with roughly the same information in it. She also said Bush was unfit to serve as President and was selected, not elected.

That's when CBS changed their story from the documents are real to they may not be real, but the info we still think is correct.

Mapes and Rather were fired, and should have been fired for their piece of crap journalism. CBS eventually set up an outside audit of the story and when it came back it was devastating.

You hire experts to evaluate something. The experts come back saying they have serious reservations, and you run the story anyway and say in the story that experts have validated the info. Complete BS and no one should defend it.

[dionysus]

118. so you went to journalism school

and can't carry Rather's dirty socks? fuck you

[Skelington]

11. It doesn't matter what kind of polish,

he tries to put on the story, and it doesn't matter to what degree the story is true anymore. The minute he waved a forged documet in the camera, he gave the Bush military record story a free pass. It's sad, because no matter what evidence is brought forward, no matter who comes forward to back up the story, the forged document will be the only thing the story, and Dan Rather is remembered for. It's a shame. However, He did it, he knew it, his career paid the price for it and we will get to eat shit over this for the next 50 freakin years.

[Liberal In Texas]

14. The doc was not proven to be forged. n/t

[im10ashus]

17. You beat me to it. n/t

:-)

[Liberal In Texas]

19. Hah! Yeah, I'm tired of hearing that RW talking point. n/t

[Skelington]

31. The CBS NEWS website has the interview between DAN RATHER and

BILL BURKETT, aired Sept. 8th, and Sept. 20th 2004. The story had teeth, but the FORGED FUCKING DOCUMENT broke the jaw. -or- do you believe that Rather and the other editors, and checkers were shuffled out because the Bush administration controls CBS FUCKING NEWS also?

It's not a right wing talking point, CBS news fucked up, they ran with information before it was authenticated, and they look stupid for it!

[Liberal In Texas]

39. There is NO PROOF it was forged. There is also no proof that it was

authentic. There was proof that the information it contained was authentic, however.

The RW threw up enough of a smoke screen so that people like you started to believe that it was forged, and dismissed the truth in the process.

It was repeated endlessly (and still is apparently) by RW hate radio, so that that meme became the "truth".

CBS News, like most others, is controlled by CORPORATE interests. They caved to outside pressure. They caved to what was best for the corporation. Money controls the interests of news divisions now days. The bottom line controls what goes on the air. I know. This is one of the reasons that after 34 years in broadcast TV news, I got the fuck out.

[Skelington]

43. I'm assuming you won't

even go to the website and read the interview, where DAN RATHER ASKS BURKETT, "why did you mislead CBS"?

I guess Dan thinks the same way you did, better to just quit. No wait Dan was shoved out the door, as were the others. If the information was true, that would have been a tremendous story, and a little reaserch would have proven that, but in his rush to GLORY, he fucked up and waived a FALSE piece of information around, regardless of what you call me. It was not an authentic document, and really doesn't it have to be proven authentic, not false? If not any random piece of gossip is true, untill proven false.

[Liberal In Texas]

47. I think YOU need to go reread that interview.

It's about the CHAIN OF POSSESSION. Burkett lied under deadline pressure about source...
This does NOT mean the doc was a fake...

Rather: "Have you forged anything?"

Burkett: "No sir."

Rather: "Have you faked anything?

Burkett: "No sir."

Rather: "But you did mislead us."

Burkett: "Yes, I misled."

<snip>

Burkett still insists the documents are real, but says he was in no position to verify them.

As far as quitting goes. When you have a responsible job in the news media, come back and tell us how easy it is to work for these weasels. Although, maybe you'd enjoy it. Kool Aid drinkers and yes-men do rather well in today's newsrooms.

[Skelington]

50. ask yourself WHY can't Burkett offer ANY information as to thier

authenticity, I don't believe HE forged it himself, but anyway you are right, the document is real, Dan rather is just to much of a pussy to stand up for what is right, fuck the other employees too, they are pussies also.

Proving that CBS lacks the coconuts to stand by Dan Rather, one of the most respected newsmen of our time, wait I mean one of the Bush family tools that can be bought and sold. To bad, I thought Dan Rather just jumped the gun and fucked up the story, you have proved to me that the story is real and true, and Dan Rather is just a lifetime noodle spined tool that bends to the winds of the right wing.

It's for the better he quit, and let the others get fired, CBS is just a right wing spin machine anyway.

[Bridget Burke]

51. You should know about Right Wing Spin.

The story of Bushie the Chickenhawk was well known long before Dan Rather covered it.

[Liberal In Texas]

55. Oh, Pleeeze....

What a bunch of nonsense.

CBS didn't vet the doc like they should have. We all know that. But that in itself does not prove it was a forgery. The CBS staff ran with it when they shouldn't have. The staffers paid the ultimate price (getting fired) for that bit of oversight. Rightly or wrongly.

BUT THE BLOODY STORY WAS TRUE.

I'm repeating myself now...some people will believe what they want even with the facts staring them right in the face.

[karynnj]

60. Exactly, the typist who said it was not the document she typed

saig it had the same content as the one she typed. His records had holes and there were clear problems even in what was available. Contrast to the fact that there were no holes in Kerry's records - and the SBVT claims contradicted the Navy record - but every channel still gave those charges coverage.

Rather wasn't fired for lack of accuracy, but for not toeing the line to re=elect Bush. A democracy needs a free press.

[dionysus]

119. TROLL

TROLL
TROLL
TROLL

[ProgressiveEconomist]

133. Of course there's no proof; Harriet Miers did too good a job

ten years ago, when Dubya hired her to eliminate every trace of his AWOL. That was the best $19,000 he ever spent. She did a coverup job worthy of a Supreme Court nomination. See http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/TheNote/story?id=1182350

[Bridget Burke]

49. You mean the interview with Ben Barnes?

The politician who helped Bush get into TANG?

Right Wing Talking Point. Yes, someone looks stupid.

Edited to add correction: Here's the interview with Ben Barnes.
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/08/60II/main642060.shtml

[im10ashus]

56. Thanks for the link, BB!

:-)

[Yupster]

117. Worse than that

their authenticators came back to them and told them not to run the story and they ran it anyway.

[mopinko]

21. eat shit if you want, i do not. mary mapes stands by it.

there is absolutely nothing but a evidence that the memo was forged. none. step away from the koolaid.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maxsolomon]

23. if it was forged, it was planted

this IS the BFEE we're talking about, isn't it?

[Skelington]

36. Then Dan Rather is just to stupid to know the difference or reaserch it?

CBS fucked up and the world saw it, the story might have be legit, but not now.

[maxsolomon]

54. the story is legit.

& it still is - GWB got away with half-assed service to the TANG. you know it, GWB knows it, Rove knows it, Allah knows it.

CBS fucked up by backing off. they could have brought bush down if they'd pushed back even a little. who gave their source the 'forged' document? where did they get it? what was the motive? when the secretary corroborated the content of the document - why was that not a story?

but no, the CBS suits ran scared and threw Rather overboard. profit before civics.

[Liberal In Texas]

57. Yep. And those suits can get real scared.

It used to be news management came from the ranks of journalists that had been around the block more than once.

Now, it's just guys who play corporate gamesmanship. They're very good at bean counting and covering their collective asses. Not so good at journalism.

[im10ashus]

58. Exactly.

And they are all in bed with the FCC.

[maxsolomon]

59. or at least petrified of the bush FCC

just think about 2004. rathergate + swiftboat = one fucking pitiful democracy. QED.

there is no reason not to be utterly cynical about the future of this country.

[Yupster]

120. CBS News President Andrew Heyward

would have stuck with the story if he could have.

During the firestorm he kept insisting to see the document experts who authenticated the documents. He said he had to have some experts to confront the experts the other networks were putting up.

That's when he found out the experts CBS consulted had the same warnings that the critics had.

Then he found out Mapes had put Burkett in touch with the Kerry campaign.

The reason the secretary's memory was not such a big story was that she was 86 years old, said the document was fake, but the info was real, and peppered her talk with lots of insults at Bush painting her as not close to a neutral observer.

[Schema Thing]

114. Cut the criticism of Rather, examine yourself

in this very thread, you've "fucked up" far worse than Rather might have. You've been dishonest (about the interview above), if not blatantly, then intellectually.

[MisterP]

67. there seems to be an interesting trend: plant a real doc (or copy),

say it was forged, and "discredit" document, story, and reporter--all in one fell swoop; the secretary says the words are exact, it's only an 80s retype. The rightist blogosphere's "debunking" of proportional spacing (and the media falling for them) was one of the most embarrasing things I've seen

[Balbus]

38. Well said!

[Skelington]

40. WOW,

Thanks, I assumed I would just be hacked on for the next few hours.

[stepnw1f]

61. No We Have Bullshiters Here Too (nt)

[Balbus]

62. Yep! Jason Leopold's stuff is all over DU.

He'd be king-bullshitter.

[stepnw1f]

63. Sureee... Whatever YOU Sayyyyyyy...

[im10ashus]

64. LMAO!!!

:rofl:

Ain't it the truth!

[Bridget Burke]

48. Nobody showed the document was forged.

Nobody denied that Bush avoided Vietnam by getting into TANG--with many better men before him in line. Nobody denied that Bush avoided completing his service with TANG.

Back in the day, I worked in a law office, using an IBM Executive typewriter. With Proportional Spacing.

Dan Rather will be remembered long after your heros at Fox have been sent to the Home for Old Media Whores.

[Skelington]

71. That's the sad part, the story has truth, but the BS document overshadows

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

65. Riddle me this.

If it's a forgery that everybody fell for, why is it a news anchor's responsibility to take the fall for it?

Isn't that like blaming the bank teller for a bank robbery?

[cherokeeprogressive]

86. That's the worst analogy I've seen yet

Using your reasoning, the repugs can say:

If it's faulty intel, and the preznit invades a sovereign country over it, who are we to hold said preznit accountable?

[agincourt]

126. That's exactly what the the GOPigs did say

The Klintoon CIA mislead poor upright W into thinking that there were WMD in Iraq. That's the ticket, that's the explanation, the sheeple buy it. The other meme is that the WMD went to Syria often said by the same RW media pigboys whom say honest W was "mislead".

[Greyhound]

68. Been reading your posts today and I have question. Are you sure

you're on the right board?

:think:

[PurgedVoter]

112. I'm with you on this,

I wonder if a Log Cabin Republican site might be a better match.

[Raster]

76. Who said it was forged? Name ONE competent expert that is willing to

go on the record claiming forgery. The assertion that it was a forged document was because the Colonel's secretary said she did not type it. She said the content was true and correct, but she did not type it. To this date, no one has come forward with ANY PROOF the document was forged.

[Vidar]

12. Atrue and courageous martyr for the truth.

[LibDemAlways]

13. I'm hoping Rather will write a tell-all book about

what it was like trying to maintain journalistic integrity during the Bush regime and having his corporate masters turn on him.

There's no question that Rather had the goods that the chimp was AWOL. Faced with Rather's tenacious reporting, the repukes did what they do best - kill the messenger.

[H2O Man]

18. Nominated.

I do not think there is any doubt that the story is true.

[helderheid]

20. to the greatest! Love ya Dan!

[AngryAmish]

22. Every part of the report was correct

But Chimpy McHitler's corporate whores tried to destroy Rather. They disgust me and they should be cleansed from our nation.

[gully]

24. Then he should NEVER have apologized.

I adore Rather, but his apology and allowing his staff to be fired for a story he believed in doesn't sit well with me. He lost his job either way, but he could have left with his integrity.

[Gabi Hayes]

30. thank you! my thoughts, exactly...AND....I saw parts of the King show,

and he sounded like he was seriously downed out, or completely depressed

"quietly defiant?" not the way I saw it, at least in the sections I saw

he was hunched over, very demur, for lack of a better word

did he ever say that the docs were NEVER proven to be forged?

did he mention the curious timing of the RW wing blogosphere's almost immediate (within an hour or two) "debunking" of the story?

the REAL story still hasn't been told, to my knowledge: the conspiracy among RW bloggers, and whatever WH source, to bring down Rather/CBS over this looming bombshell, AND CBS' ready acquiescence

[gully]

42. He was beaten down/depressed. I watched the interview as well

and I think he'd have been better off telling CBS to F-off. He eluded to the fact that he was hoping to move up in the ranks of the organization. I think that underlying goal caused him to struggle internally and make the wrong choice. He still has my respect, but not as much as he had before he chose career over truth.

[caligirl]

25. Couric will be in San Francisco soon via the Common Wealth Club

for another cancer event.

[WilliamPitt]

26. Sounds familiar

[im10ashus]

27. LOL!

Indeed. :-)

[bunny planet]

28. That was always the risk the Bush crime family took.

Drive Dan out of CBS news and he's got no reason to hold back anymore. What's he got to lose. He will put this story back out there if he feels like it.
What's the frequency AWOL???

[ScreamingMeemie]

29. Well... he's not just fading away, is he?

Dan Rather, you rock. To getting the truth out there!

[johnaries]

33. I remember that the Secretary who said she didn't type the memo

ALSO said everything in it was true, even though she didn't type it and didn't know who did. But she verified the contents, which somehow got "lost" in the controversy.

[im10ashus]

35. That's an important fact.

And one overlooked consistently by the naysayers.

[Poiuyt]

45. I don't know why Rather didn't count on her a litttle more

I remember her saying that the contents of the memo were accurate.

[rman]

37. General Electric News (NBC), Viacom News (CBS)

Rather makes a very important point.

on edit:

Time Warner News (CNN)

Walt Disney News (ABC)

Murdoch News / News Corporation News (FOX)

[EFerrari]

41. We should all print those 5 facts out and tape them to the tube.

:thumbsup:

[AndyTiedye]

44. That is Why I Had These Bumper Stickers Made Up

[DeepModem Mom]

46. K&R

[Mugsy]

52. Whoa: "a cog in an entertainment company". Familiar.

Anyone remember the movie "Network"?

[im10ashus]

53. Great film!

Between that and Wag the Dog, Washington can never say they don't love Hollywood.

[grannylib]

66. I have always believed that if those documents WERE forged, they were

forged by those who needed to discredit that story and do it quick.
Can't have anyone questioning the Pretender and Thief.

Fucking cowardly little chickenhawk.

And as noted above, nobody yet has come forward to prove that Chimpy served his time in TANG.

[agincourt]

125. It also kicked out the Niger uranium story,

Which probably would have hurt Bush more than the National Guard story. I always thought it was a setup, I couldn't see any documents surviving after Chimp-shit got governor of Texas. Hiding the bodies is the one of the things these rat-dicksuckers aren't incompetent at.

[grannylib]

127. Yeah, like the new driver's license # Chimpy got in Texas, so nobody

could look up his criminal record.
Gee, wonder what that was all about?
If they didn't get him ANOTHER new one to cover up the DWI, it must have been something considerably worse that needed hiding.

[spanone]

69. What an ideal concept...

"I want to do news that's fair and accurate, do it with integrity and I want to do it in the public interest."

It's a sad commentary on America's ability to monitor itself when a reporter is fired for having these goals.

[SpiralHawk]

70. Bush deserted from the Texas Air National Guard

and everyone -- without a peculiar fish to fry -- knows it.

He was also AWOL on 9/11. No debate. He failed America.

Again.

[Liberal In Texas]

77. Because .... (wait for it....)

HE'S A FAILURE.

Scraped by in college. Only was enrolled at Yale as a legacy.
Failed to report to the Alabama National Guard.
Failed by default the required drug test for flight fitness.
Failed to get elected to congress.
Failed in drilling for oil where oil practically bubbled out of the ground.
Failed with the Texas Rangers. Co-presiding over a team that was the laughing stock of the league.
Failed as the Governor of Texas. He took a vibrant economy and made mince-meat out of it, turning it over to large corporate cronies. He left the school system in dire destitute shambles.

The guy was a joke here in Texas when he was Gov. I could not believe the moron was going to run for Pres. I thought that it was obvious that the repukes had put up some sort of joke candidate. That he would never be elected because he was an idiot.

Boy, was I wrong.

[SlipperySlope]

72. Oh god, not again...

[Gabi Hayes]

75. right! I wish he'd stop being on TV every single night

great point!

[Liberal In Texas]

78. In my time working for a CBS affiliatte I managed to run into Dan Rather

a few times.

He's OK. But.

He's no Edward R. Murrow. He's more like Ted Baxter than most DUers would like to think.

He's a bit pompous and egotistical. (Most anchors are. This is not unusual.)

He reminded me of when I met William Shatner. A bit above it all. Not stupid, but not really on top of what was going on either.

It was in sharp contrast to when I met Walter Cronkite at the Democratic National Convention (more years ago than I care to think about) at the CBS canteen off the floor of the convention. Eyes that would look into your soul. A nice man, easy with jokes and small talk. Tie undone, lounging back in a plastic chair to sip his Coke and eat his rubber sandwich with the rest of the crew. Expand the belly a bit. Roll his eyes and ask, "How are you liking Atlanta?"

Dan always had an entourage. Like Fergie did when I met her, or (as I assume) Madonna does. Dan was a STAR. And make no mistake about it, he wanted you to know that. It was rumored that in "Broadcast News" Jack Nicholson was doing a parody of Rather. I think that is a correct assessment.

Did Rather actually stand for journalistic beliefs? Does he still?

I think the answer is probably yes. Almost 99% yes.

Is he another Cronkite or Murrow. No. 100% no.

But we take our heros, even with clay feet, where we find them.


(edited to say...I'll bet nobody reads this, but I kind of had to let someone know that might be interested...)

[gristy]

79. Well, I sure read it. Interesting stuff.

[Liberal In Texas]

80. Glad you read it.

Sometimes on DU I feel like I put a note in a bottle, cork it, and let the waves take it to oblivion.

[Cameron27]

81. I read it also

Walter Cronkite is the standard..no one's come close. Thanks for sharing your story.

[Liberal In Texas]

82. It's been kind of nice to know that "gristy" and "seasonedblue" are

awake and read my little missive.

After 34 years in "broadcast news" I have a bunch of stories.

I probably should write them down sometime...

Nice to know the bottle got to shore and was opened. Thanks.

[juajen]

115. Hey, I opened the bottle, too

Don't forget the silent drinkers.

[LaPera]

83. Well he should, the facts were ALL true...Rove did his usual wickedness

made Rather the issue, instead of the facts, and then diabolically and ruthlessly attacked Kerry's service record - And of course the Dem's never get it, character assassinations works (especially with a republican media fed the bait) Smearing & distortion always sticks!!!!

And who does it turn off and don't vote...Democratic voters, (exactly what Rove wants) who are told both sides are doing the "mudslinging"...That's Karl Rove's forte...with the Diebold electronic voting machines used to create the illusion and steal what votes they need.

But Dem's still refuse to believe it and try to stick with the issues that few remember. As republicans know to attack the Dem's character because that, unforunately is what wins elections to the always uninformed voter.

When will the Dem's understand this, or do they care only about their own jobs?

[jerry611]

85. The end does not justify the means...

If it is true that Rather played a hand in creating forged documents...it was perfectly acceptable for him to be fired even if the conclusions are 100% true.

[LaPera]

87. Knowingly? That has NEVER been established...

As far as I know...Dan Rather reported what he thought and felt to be a legitimate (story) report...AGAIN, THE FACTS ABOUT BUSH'S RECORD WERE AND ARE STILL TRUE!

Are you implying this wasn't a setup? Rove didn't take the story away from Bush's service record?

The only thing Rather can be guilty of is not going out into the field to indeed check if the story was true or a setup.

Yes, I suppose, that is the anchor's job for every story. (Is that really something you would do, for every single story)?

He was setup. And Rove and the boys, and you, (I'm guessing) are laughing all the way home.

[GreenTea]

94. This is no dispute that Rove was able to change the story away from Bush's

"service" record and the dialogue did in fact change afterward. That to me is the real story and of course Bush's actual (non) service record.

[Yupster]

121. What Rather can be accused of

is interviewing the documents experts and then deciding not to include them in the story because they had to many warnings about the documents not being real.

Then he said in the story the documents were well verified which he knew they weren't.

[Liberal In Texas]

90. He did not. (See many posts above.)

First of all, they WERE NOT FORGED! At least as far as we know they were not.

If you have evidence that they were, please bring it to light.

There is no evidence that they were fake or real. With some of the evidence I've seen, and having worked with IBM Selectics in that era, they look pretty authentic to me. However. No one to this day knows if the docs themselves are fake or real. THIS DOES NOT MAKE THEM FAKE!

It's really is getting tiresome to repeat the same information over and over, but here we go again.

-It was a very complicated authintication process they didn't follow that they should have.

-If you work in, say, a shop that fixes cars, and a customer gives you a false identity, credit card, etc. should you be fired? Maybe. Gross stupidity about not checking on your part. But do you really think that the boss should fire you?

We hold up journalists to a higher degreee of standard than car fixers. But the fact remains, they were under deadline. The suits wanted the story turned. They didn't check. They fucked up on that point.

BUT ! The story was true. As evidenced by the secreary that worked in Austin. The CBS team did not cross all the t's or dot the i's. But the story was there none the less.

The RW spin machine, like the Swift Boat Liars, got into high gear. That is why your post even says "...forged documents". Becuase you belive they were forged.

They were fired over process. Not the "fact" that they put "forged" docs on the air.

****Anybody but me think we've got the troll squad trying to create disharmony? Me thinks.
Paid trolls, GFYS.****

[Yupster]

122. If there was no evidence whether they were

fake or real, they damn well shouldn't have been on the news.

[agincourt]

88. The thing that always got me about it,

was the Justice dept couldn't tell if the documents were kosher after CBS gave it to them, but some freeper trolls could in 5 hours. The Reagen toadie Thornburg backed off on calling them forged even though a general's initials were on them. The pigboy media blasts forgery for days on end but cutting to the chase no one will prosecute the forgery of a gov't document. If it were prosecuted the real source may come up which would lead back to the GOPigs. Tiresome watching those pig-cocksuckers haveing their cake and eating it always.

[LaPera]

91. Good point.

[Liberal In Texas]

96. I will go with all the good points here.

Very interesting comment.

I remember walking into a bar with my wife when this started to shake out. I hadn't ever heard about the "typeface" BS. But this "friend" had all the talking points lined up to assail me with. "That fake type on the Rather documents... etc etc."

"What are you talking about," I asked. He preceded to tell me that Rather had put some docs out that were such obvious forgeries.

"What are you talking about," I asked again. Mr RW friend told me that the typrwriters did not exist at that time period, and it was obvious that word processors of the computer age were used. Man, he heard talking points rather quickly from somewhere. I was stunned. I had nothing to come back with.

That night, I got out the old internet and looked up what I could find. RW, LW, everybody comparing fonts. I compared with the best of them. Like I said, I've used these old Selectrics, a lot, and to me it was a typewriter, not a word processer.

But the bell had been rung. The talking point meme was out. My "friend" at the bar had heard it before me. I had no ammo when I had walked in.

Now I had to disprove it. Much after the fact. Who remembers after the fact?

Nobody.

This is what we are up against all the time.

Lies that take on the patina of truth. History now rewritten by liars.
The RW Hate Radio guys like to quote Churchill (who would hate them)..."History is written by the victors."

They take it to mean, like Hitler, you can rewrite history for your choosing. Churchill was more inclined to mean that despots would not have their history memorialized.

[Yupster]

124. CBS only delivered the documents to the White House

the same day they were aired. Mapes said that was because she didn't want them putting out the story ahead of CBS to steal their thunder. That would be the famous Bush document dump.

Bush was out campaigning for the day and only helicoptered back to the White House later.

[pitohui]

89. it was a good broadcast

it was nothing but the truth, why shouldn't he stand by it?

i've never understood what was so controversial abt it to begin with, some neo-nazis make up a story about typefaces and so it was OK that * didn't serve?

[LaPera]

92. Another good point.

[symbolman]

95. I was in the military at the same time as Bush

and worked in a Purchasing office, with Finanace and other sections and I can tell you for a fact that the typewriters at that time in ALL branches of the military COULD make smaller "th"'s, etc.

What the right wing was saying that the text was impossible to create on Typewriters then was a LIE, pure and simple.

I know, I saw the typewriters, used them, received orders with those characters on them, etc.

Rather is correct on all counts. It's a FACT that typewriters COULD generate those papers, of course the powers that BE (Lawyers, Bean counters, right wing owners) kept hammering on the big lie (a simple one to refute), and no one brought up the fact that WHAT Rather was saying was true down to the roots. They make the story of killing off a reporter who has YEARS of credibility the story at the same time, (meanwhile lefties with no honor make that claim about themselves, that they are credible and have been swiftboated, when nothing could be further from the truth, and confuse the issue even further, keeping us from SAVING people like Rather who ARE CREDIBLE, and have done the work..)..

He was swiftboated by the Corporations in the back pockets of the Bush Family -- Viacom is partially owned by I believe as a lot of telecom industrie (at least here in Hawaii where they bought up the tele-industries), by the Carlyle Group.

Follow the money deeply enough and you'll find them at the center. SO think about what movies you WON'T SEE, Books you WON'T Read, Calls that will be tapped, etc.

This country is an OCCUPIED NATION. We are Occupied by Corporations and we are screwed. We've got an some answers on how to deal with this, some day perhaps we'll be listened to, meantime, screaming egos, and miniscule focus groups have taken over the left so pretty much nothing will be won or accomplished.

The days of "Good Night and Good Luck" are over, long live King George while we argue about individual rights and don't lockstep or agree on a 'coach' for the game :)

[GreenTea]

97. Excellent post.

[Liberal In Texas]

99. Welcome to DU Green Tea.

[GreenTea]

101. Thanks for the welcome LibInTexas Cheers to you!

:smoke:

[Liberal In Texas]

103. Cheers back at ya....as we say in Texas.

Hope to see you around.

[Liberal In Texas]

98. I'm with you.

Wooooosh...

It's daunting.

[Liberal In Texas]

100. Kind of hard to compete with

"Girl sues High School for turning her mic off"

But nice chatting with you guys all the same.

[GreenTea]

102. Yessssss

:headbang:

[Liberal In Texas]

104. 129 posts, and your've already got the smilies guys going for you...

I think it took me around 500 posts or so.

:toast:

(Even that took effort..)

[GreenTea]

105. LOL! However, your indeed extremely Cooooool!!!

"129" Don't be too sure about the numbers though.

:evilgrin:

[Major Hogwash]

110. Whoa! That was powerful, what you just said!

You should be on the radio, symbolman.

Hell, I'd listen to ya.

[im10ashus]

131. Nail. Hammer. Head.

Bingo, my friend. A very concise summation. Merci buckets.

[symbolman]

132. Thanks for the comments and Welcome to new comers

I did do some radio for a while on our site, Takebackthemedia.com.. some of it may still be on the site, out of date of course..

I'd love to get on the air and tell a LOT of people to shut UP :)

We really need to make Democrats realise that if we don't STOP catering to Individual groups and members that we cannot win. At some point they need to get the fact that there's a larger picture here, WE need to lockstep, join arms and FIGHT. Later, when we've WON, THEN we'll take care of these other folks and issues.

Winning is number one, and believe me, I have no problems with taking pages from the right wing and using their tactics against them, remember, all they've been doing is spouting OUR TALKING POINTS, THEN once in office they make extreme RIGHT WING rules, Govt by FIAT at this point, while claiming that the Dems have NO Message..

Chameleons. And the public falls for it. Remember when McCain was the "Reformer"? After Bush's Church pals branded McCain's wife a druggie and said he had a Black love child, THEN Bush came back as "A REFORMER - WITH RESULTS!"

See the trend? Chameleons, political shape shifters.. Watch for it, the media beams OUR talking points into the public's brain with Pictures of Cheney, a man who I swore would Eat a baby when I first saw his face.

Anyone wants to beat them, call me.. I got some ideas - mostly involving Corporations, since THAT IS our Govt now. We've got ideas that go beyond "buying Blue", tho that's a good start :)

Thanks for the kind words, one thing to remember if this all gets you down, in the end the TRUTH WILL come out. At 53 I've seen it happen even in my short life (also seen too many wars - was drafted during nam), that deep down inside if you keep telling the TRUTH it will resonate with everyone who hears it..

It's the real music of the universe, and these killers are just a bunch of bad actors, in the end the curtains will drop and they'll be gone. But we won't be, and we're gonna need people like you all when the HUMANS TAKE OVER :)

One for All, and All for One! It's classic, cos it's still true. IF WE don't start loving each other, working together and respecting each other, we are going to die. The Beatles may sound corny today, but what they said has never been more true..

Working on a new song, Called : "Love Bomb" ala Hendrix style, and I'm gonna drop it everywhere when it's done :)

[Hekate]

106. Good for Dan Rather.

Some fine day the karmic train will be by to pick up George W. Bush and he's going to have a heckuva ride.

Hekate

[The Count]

108. As Fitz would say: "they make it about your behavior instead of their own"

Diversion is easy when you have the bullhorn.

[im10ashus]

111. Something like, "he who yells loudest..."

Welcome to DU!

:hi:

Love your avatar. :-)

[The Count]

130. Thanks!