Lebanon is to weak to stop Hezbollah, what is Israel's plan?

[jseankil]

What is their aim, we know Lebanon is to weak to disarm Hezbollah and we know Hezbollah doesn't give a shit about the current bombing as it makes their recruitment easier. What is the long term goal, it seems the short is pure revenge against anyone who happenes to live near Hezbollah. Anyone?

[leftchick]

1. Destroy Lebanon

and pull Iran and Syria into the fight so the US joins in. Presto! WWIII!

[robinlynne]

3. I don't really believe Israel wants that.

Bush may, but not Israel. The American public may very well not go along with entering another war. And Israel is being careful to stay out of Syria and Iran. ISrael fighting on all borders at once?

[leftchick]

4. are you familiar with The PNAC plan?

The harliners in Israel would indeed love just that.

[Emit]

43. Or "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm"

Written in 1996 for Netanyahu, it "is a report prepared by The Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies’ "Study Group on a New Israeli Strategy Toward 2000." The main substantive ideas in this paper emerge from a discussion in which prominent opinion makers, including Richard Perle, James Colbert, Charles Fairbanks, Jr., Douglas Feith, Robert Loewenberg, David Wurmser, and Meyrav Wurmser participated. The report, entitled "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm," is the framework for a series of follow-up reports on strategy."

Much can be infered from this report, which coincided with and/or preceded the PNACers' plans.


Here's just one excerpt:

Given the nature of the regime in Damascus, it is both natural and moral that Israel abandon the slogan "comprehensive peace" and move to contain Syria, drawing attention to its weapons of mass destruction program, and rejecting "land for peace" deals on the Golan Heights.

http://www.iasps.org/strat1.htm

[SPKrazy]

75. So The PNAC Is Israel?

the PNAC has many members, some who are Likuders, some who are right wing republicans, and some who are neocons

but to say it is Israel's plan to destroy Lebanon?

if it is, then they are way wrong.

But I think this smacks a little of anti-semitism

[leftchick]

86. my very best friend for over 45 years would laugh at that

she is a Jew and she deplores the exact same conduct from Israel That I deplore. Collective punishment of a nation solves nothing.

[SPKrazy]

87. Well It Sounds Like You Are Saying

that the Israel (or pro Israel people) are behind the PNAC when the PNAC is a diverse bunch of imperialistic assholes. The fact that some of them are Jewish, and may be pro Israel doesn't make the PNAC an agent of Israel now does it?

That was my point.

I'm not happy with what is going on in the ME.

I think that Israel is over reacting.

I think that Lebanon has not the ability to rid itself of Hezbollah terrorists.

I think that this whole mess has the potential to spread farther than it has.

What is the point of destroying Lebanon to rid it of Hezbollah?

It is akin to some kind of slaughter if they proceed in the manner they seem to be going IMO

[leftchick]

89. Not all Israelis

the hardliners like our PNAC rat bastards. They comprise a small group who have now attained a LOT of power. Israel is loaded with peaceniks like me, they apparently have no influence as we have none here in the US.

I agree with all of what you are saying pretty much. It sucks all the way around.

[ladjf]

50. Sounds more like Hezbollah's dream than Israels.

[leftchick]

54. hmmmm

who created Hezbollah? Answer: Israel!

[ladjf]

58. Yes. But, in so far as Hezbollah has almost zero military

capacity, their only hope for change would be to get the "big boys" , Syria and Iran directly involved in the war. Even then, Israel would enjoy a huge offensive advantage for a variety of reasons, not the least of which, they have nukes if needed.

[Behind the Aegis]

74. hmmmm...no...

Correct answer: PLO!

[Swede]

2. To push Hezbollah out of Lebanon.

Relegious fanatics within rocket range of Haifa is not a good thing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. How's This For A Solution?

1) The UN enforces Resolution 1559 which calls for all nations to respect Lebanon's territorial integrity (and) all Lebanese and non Lebanese militias are disarmed.



2) The Israelis agree to a prison swap so Hezbollah can save face.

[Swede]

7. Sounds good to me.

It'll be a tough sell to both sides.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Yes

Because other nations are pulling Hezbollah's strings.

The people of Lebanon are suffering because Syria and Iran are using Hezabollah to harass Israel and Hezbollah and its armarments are dispersed within Lebanon and among the populus. And Lebanon doesn't want them there in the first place.

Yeah, I don't think my little plan has much chance of success.

I think there's enough blame to go around and innocent people are dying but this conflict can't be reduced to a tidy little passion play or a battle netween white hats and black hats.

[Laotra]

32. Again

You have the gall to say that 48 % of the population (Shia) are not Lebanese?

Another victim of the Western spin and framing...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. I Don't Think

I don't think you even believe that Lebanon and Hezbollah are synonymous.


I never said that Muslims aren't a majority or plurality in Lebanon but that Hezbollah is not the ruling party in Lebanon:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Lebanon


They have fourteen out of one hundred twenty eight seats in Lebanon's parliament.


That's not even close to a majority.

[Laotra]

55. not 14 but 27

And under real proportional elections would most likely have much more. Today the offices of president and prime minister are constitutionally denied to the shia (reserved to a maronite and a sunni).

[serryjw]

45. You'll be excused one more time

than you go on IGNORE. We are here to educate each other. The way you are expressing yourself is not going to make friends....NOW.....Is the majority (80%) of Lebanese comprised of Muslim Arab or Lebanese Arabs?...Whats' the difference? MY heritage is Russian and German but I never refer to myself that way. I am born an American Jew.....which doesn't make me Israeli,either

[Laotra]

53. Then ignore me

or let yourself be educated. Lebanon is by constitutional power sharing agreement divided by religious lines, Shia, Sunni, Alawite, Druzi, Maronite Christian, Orthodox Christian, Catholic etc. Christian arabs, based on age old census (1932), and a new census is a hot political potate, to put it mildly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon#Politics.

The wikipedia article about Hezbollah says that today Shia are 48% of the population.

[SPKrazy]

84. What ????

from the DU rules

"You are permitted to tell someone that you are adding them to your ignore list, provided that you actually do so."

I realize you didn't say you were putting them on IGNORE, but that you were giving them another chance.

As for what you are agitated about I have re-read your post and the post to which you are responding, what exactly is your disagreement with the poster?

[Yupster]

21. Sounds good

So who's supposed to disarm Hezbullah?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. Theoretically

The U N.

[Laotra]

40. Not UN

It's internal matter of Lebanon, so the answer is democratic institutions of Lebanon, which is a sovereign country, not UN protectorate.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. Is it

Is it your position that UN Resolutions are meaningless?

[Laotra]

61. No

Obviously SC resolutions have "meaning" when it suits the interests of the Empire. But they are not democratic or just but only the opinion of the 5 permanent members.

[Yupster]

56. Like I said

Custer had a plan too.

[Solo_in_MD]

62. UN is not up to the task (unfortunately)

I believe that Israel would step back if there was some reasonable assurance that the bombardments would stop. Syria would be the big loser ins such a deal, and would undermine it every chance it got.

[jseankil]

6. They actually think this mass general punishment is going to work???

We are talking about a terror organization, if anything this general mass attack on the populous is going to increase Hezbollah membership. Look at Iraq? This military action I fear is goign to backfire hard.

[ContraBass Black]

8. Well, it worked with the Palestinians and Hamas, didn't it?

Oh, wait...

[Swede]

9. It's a mess all right.

Nothing good will come of this.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swede]

29. Hezbollah are armed fundamentalists.

They scare the shit out of ALL the Lebanese.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Magistrate]

10. Israel's Problem, Sir

Is that there are not really any good options in this situation confronting it. Destruction of an irregular force is not easily achieved, and requires first of all the capability either to completely sequester the area in which it operates, or to completely depopulate it by deportation or massacre. The first is beyond Israeli power, and the second is out of fashion nowadays to the point of being outrageously criminal.

Probably the "best" Israel could do would be to re-establish a buffer zone in southern Lebanon, sufficiently to deep to deny Hezbollah launching sites in rady range of its northern cities and towns. This could certainly be achieved, and maintained despite international protests, but would simply resume the war of attrition Israel found it wisest to abandon a few years ago.

The leaders of Israel doubtless hope, or imagine, that their actions may convince the leaders of Lebanon, Syria, and Iran to take steps to rein in Hezbollah, but that strikes me as an unlikely outcome, and hence an unusually forlorn hope. It would certainly be the right course for those governments to take, but the latter two particularly doubtless imagine they will draw more political benefit and prestige by standing vocally alongside Hezbollah than by curbing it.

Nonetheless, the Israeli government must do something about rocket attacks and military raids across its northern border: its own internal poliotical imperatives demand some action, loud and violent enough to give its citizens heart that something is being done to protect them. So far, despite hyperbole routinely employed in description, the response has been a good deal more noise than mayhem.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Yes

It looks like the Israelis will end up establishing the same cordon sanitare that they painfully abandoned after twenty years.

[Swede]

14. It'll have to be bigger cause of longer range missiles.

This is really a cauldron.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. I Agree

Hezbollah is Iran's sockpuppet but Lebanon is having their country destroyed while Israel is looking like bullies.

It sure seems Iran is in a sweet spot.

[The Magistrate]

20. The Longer Range Rockets, Sir

Are items a bit more easy to track as they are employed. they are large enough vehicles are required for transport, and there is some set-up time. They are also more expensive and hence less common. It might be a problem manageable by reconnaisance over-flights backed by strike aircraft and long-range artillery.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. That Would Be Difficult Though

During Gulf War 1 the Americans and Israelis could never figure out where the SCUD attacks were coming from.

[The Magistrate]

Not Saying It Would Be Easy, Sir

Merely that it might be practicable. A lot of the difficulty in the episode you mentioned was the great expanse from which the things could be launched. The area it would be required to surveil in this instance is considerably less, and the equipment for doing so considerably improved.

[jseankil]

13. More noise than mayhem?

Tell that to Lebanon sir, how much has to be destroyed and how many have to die before it reaches mayhem proportions?

[The Magistrate]

18. More Noise Than Mayhem, Sir

If you think what is occuring even approaches what would occur with a serious bombardment and invasion by a first rate miltary machine, then we certainly share the hope that events will not develop in such a way as will disabuse you.

If you wish a standard of comparison, Sir, you might look into the real invasion carried out back in the eighties of the last century. That was mayhem conducted very, very loudly.

[jseankil]

27. Unfair comparison sir, Mayhem is in the air like it or not

Let's compare the events of then and now, very different thing, why the comparison? Yes the same countires were involved but the situations don't match up. Last weekend in Beruit cafes were full of people and streets packed 1 week later some of those cafes no longer exist. I call that mayhem sir and your comparison is rather off.

[The Magistrate]

33. People Are Not Frequenting Them, Perhaps, Sir

Are you implying what is occuring today is worse than in the early eighties? That seems somehow to be the import of your remarks to my tired eyes.

[jseankil]

41. No, I'm not comparing it to the 80's.

What I am saying though is that the situation is deadly, is serious, and is escalating what I gathered from your comments was that the situation is just 'noise' and I strongly disagree with that assesment. This is a situation of urgencey and placing it next to and comparing it to the 1980's conflict serves no purpose but to water it down.

[The Magistrate]

48. As An Instance Of Military Action Against A State, Sir

It is much more noise then mayhem. When hyperbolic statements are made exaggerating what is occuring, comparison to other events is an appropriate corrective, to establish proportion.

[MrPrax]

47. So what happened?

"the real invasion carried out back in the eighties of the last century"...so what happened? Lead to peace, lead to Israeli's security...

You like to mention the 'buffer zone' -- prohibited under 1559? But you think that this will work? Did it before? Did it lead to peace or Israeli security...

Under 1559 Syria was suppose to leave -- they did last year.

This was at the time the BIG stumbling block to peace as well as Syrian influence in Lebanon. During that 'meme' it was Syria that was doing all the supplying, now under the new 'meme', Iran is the concern, not Syria...script just changes, but none of the observers offering their opinion seem to note any of this?

Rem back when Sharon was elected -- he going to Jerusalem was never the problem, but the fact that Palestinians didn't have elections -- so they had elections. A Hamas government was never acceptable, because they didn't recognize Israel...so they had negotiations and recognized Israel. Israel invades anyway...

Last week, some folks decried the rocket threat from Gaza...never mentioning the Hezbullah...now since Israel has invaded Lebanon...the rockets from the North are added to the mix...

It's hard, Sir to take you seriously...

[The Magistrate]

51. Israel's Invasion Of Lebanon, Sir

Was quite a disaster for Israel, and a worse disaster for Lebanon. Where ypu detect any endorsement or approval of it in pointing it was an exercise of violence dwarfing the present events escapes me.

Your presentyation of relations between Hebollah and Syria and Iran is apparently based on little knowledge. Hexbollah is a Shia organization, assisted by the Islamic Republic of Iran from its foundation in the days of Khomeni. This has never been hidden or denied or doubted by anyonme woith a passin kinowledge of the area and its events. At periods of its earlu days its relations with Syria were not particularly friendly. They are now, and have been for some while. Syria delivers the supplies dispatched from Iran, and doubtless takes a rake-off in cash.

[Laotra]

28. Easy

Give up the occupied Lebanese farms, release Lebanese prisorners should be enough for a lasting cease fire with Hezbollah. For lasting peace with all, make just peace with Palestinians and Syria along the Arab and other peace initiatives (giving all of West Bank, half of Jerusalem and Golan back).

It is the continuing unjustice that fuels to conflict, so why not do the right thing?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. Do You Really Think

Do you really think if Israel was to return to their pre 1967 borders the conflict would end?

If that's the case I would advocate Israel do it tomorrow and I believe the lion's share of Israelis would do it


That being said would you at least entertain the notion that the conflict would continue and Israel's enemies would use the area Israel has vacated to mount further attacks. It is ironic that the current attacks are coming from Gaza and Lebanon;two areas that Israel has vacated.

[Laotra]

36. I do

And the only way to find out is to try it out.

Israel has not vacated the Shebaa-farms and Gaza is a huge prison, collectively punished by Israel in numerous ways.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. The UN Had Ratified The Israel-Lebanon Border

It seems Hezbollah is using the Shebba Farms situation as a red herring to attack Israel.

[Laotra]

59. Another UN land-grab

Not accepted by Lebanon and Syria, to which the area belonged before Israel took Golan, just by occupying Israel and the famously "democratic" SC.

It's not UN's land to give, and if there's a real dispute, let Hague resolve it. Somehow I doubt that Israel is unwilling to take its case to Hague and accept its ruling.

[The Magistrate]

69. You Do Not Seem Clear On The Concept, Sir

In a question like this, the Security Council is the Law, and a World Court Tribunal would look no further than the Security Council's directive.

[Laotra]

72. Methinks

On this concept it is you that are not very clear. I'm not a lawyer specialized in international law and I doubt you are either, but AFAIK Hague is not subservient to SC, which is political entity using executive power, not legislative organ, and Hague makes its decisions independently from SC, after hearing both sides of a dispute, which SC obviously did not do.

[The Magistrate]

76. The Court, Sir

Abides by existing international law in making its decisions. A directive of the Security Council is international law, and that it what the court would judge a dispute over the sovereignty of this patch ground by. Its judges would dismiss out of hand any attempt to claim the Security Council lacked either jurisdiction or authority. The fact that the Scurity Council did not decide in a fashion agreeable to your views does not mean it did not hear all sides, or decided wrongly, or was not competent to decide the question. It simply means you do not agree with their decision, and this does not affect its standing in the slightest, any more than mine would.

[Laotra]

82. Indeed

But UNSC resolutions are not international law, as the term is normally used, but they should be based on international law, specifically UN Charter. I believe the "separation of powers" is familiar term to you, and UNSC is not a legislative organ but an executive one.

On the other hand, UN General Assembly is considered to contribute to "customary" international law by state practice.

[The Magistrate]

39. None Of That Is Going To Happen, Sir

The so-called "Lebanese farms" is an area about six kilometers square that was originally held by Syria under the M.A.C. negotiations and is within the northern boundaries of Israel recognized by the United Nations. It is both a trifle and a load of tripe as a purported cause for violence.

There will never be any peace with Hezbollah because the organization is conceived as the armed expression of a religuious duty to destroy the state of Israel as an incursion onto Moslem lands Moslems have a sacred duty to repell. This rather narrows the available room for compromise....

[Laotra]

64. Just more demonizing n/t

[The Magistrate]

66. Those Are Facts, Sir

The things that people concerned with something other than propagandizing must confront and deal with....

"It ain't what you don't know, it's what you know that ain't so, that'll get you every time."

[Laotra]

70. Those are your interpretations

And things are very sad indeed when a seemingly intelligent observer like you chooses to rather demonize the party he's opposed to than to take the leap of faith that peace requires.

[The Magistrate]

73. They Are My Interpretations, Sir

In the same sense that it is my interpretation that two plus two equals four in a mathematical system with a base of five of more....

[Laotra]

79. False analogy n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

30. I agree with this. nt

[TheFarseer]

52. Finally some reasonable commentary about this

too many here seem to think Israel should just sit around in bomb shelters and curse themselves for their very existence.

[Laotra]

15. Hezbollah = Lebanon n/t

[jseankil]

16. yea, except it doesn't. /nm

nm

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Why

Why do you think Lebanon and Hezbollah are synonymous

[Laotra]

37. Because

Shia population is 48 % of Lebanese, so with proportional representation Hezbollah and Amal would be if not the whole Lebanese governement, most of it. Under the current system slanted against the Shia they have only about fourth of the Parliament and two ministers.

[Igel]

63. Confusing the part for the whole will merely make the

matter even more confusing.

Granted, it's plausibly Nasrallah's view, but megalomania and messiah-complexes are best reserved for private display.

[Laotra]

68. No confusion

I'm not saying a part is the whole, but many posters seem to be unaware that Hezbollah is big and important part of Lebanon.

[Yupster]

22. My guess

is that they'd like to weaken Hezbullah enough so that the Lebanese can get them under control.

That's their plan.

Custer had a plan too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. I Think The IDF Is A Bit More Powerful Than The 7th Calvary

eom

[JerseygirlCT]

26. This is the problem and why I think Israel's response is

too heavy-handed.

I think the Lebanese were moving in a peaceful direction. Throwing off Syria's yoke was a good first step. Throwing out Hezbollah would be the next. But they're too strong, as you say.

Iran is the crux of the problem here. And I know that brings out the fight in people here, b/c our fearless leader seems to have his dried up little heart set on war with Iran, too. But it's the truth. Their leadership is every bit as nuts as our own. Their money and direction is what Hezbollah depends on. And the terrorist group won't be stopped until pressure is successfully put on Iran to cut it out.

Before the current bozo there, I would have guessed that Iran was moving toward greater freedom as well. Perhaps he's a blip, an aberration in a longer arc in a good direction. I don't know.

I do think the current antagonistic stance toward them only strengthens his hand and makes both sides more set against each other. Nothing good will come of that.

The Arabs and Iran need to understand that Israel isn't going anywhere. Isn't going to happen. I think they need to be absolutely convinced of that. Then we need to be absolutely free from our need for their oil. Once that happens, it will be in their best interests to play nice.

Right now Israel can't really stop Hezbollah. They do need to defend themselves, however. It's a crappy situation, but there's simply GOT to be another way to handle it.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ladjf]

49. If the Israeli troops ceased the war today, it would take Lebanon

3 to 5 years to recover from this blow to their infrastructure and political system.

I don't know why Hezbollah would risk all of this just to blow up one Israelis tank and kill a few soldiers. That, on it's face, makes no sense. Perhaps their hope is that the conflagration will spread throughout the ME into a full-blown military event that would include the resources of Syria and Iran. On paper, the combined militaries of Iran and Syria are larger than Israel's. Their problem is that the Israeli forces are better trained and have nukes. There is no hope that the Islamic alliance could defeat, or even seriously wound the Israeli forces. At this point in time, Israel has all of the cards.

[azurnoir]

57. Speculation at least in part

Hezbollah in a way has little to lose here, they compose about 12% of the Lebanese government. The other 88% is a coalition of Christan, Sunni, and Shia. Hezbollah does not represent all Shia. Hezbollah does however get a good deal of its backing from Syria who in turn feel they have "scores" to settle with both Israel and the current Lebanese government. It is very possible that Hezbollah is acting to a degree on Syria's behalf. Syria (I posted this a couple nights ago) gets to keep its hands clean and butt intact and when all is said and done will most certainly be to there "help their Lebanese brothers", yeah right. Israel will likely get the Golan Heights back and it's back to square one, until next time.

[Laotra]

65. There was

a prisoner swap few years ago between Israel and Hezbollah, after Hezbollah captures some Israeli, but not all prisoners were freed and Hezbollah promised to continue this tactic untill all Lebanese prisoners were freed. There was unsuccesfull attempt not long time ago. None of "this is an act of war" crap from Israel those earlier times.

Weak Olmert may think he needs to look tough, and there was a plan ready for incident as an excuse for Israel and US to try to force 1559 by military means, regardless of Lebanese democratic institutions that were never consulted by UN for meddling in the internal affairs of the country.

[The Magistrate]

71. In Other Words, Sir

A person disposed to do so could make a case that all Israel is doing is attempting to enforce a Security Council directive, or in other words, to see that international law is obeyed by pasrties defying it, and that in this endeavor it ought to enjopy the support of all nations who value the enforcement of international law.

The statement the the Security Council is "meddling" is rather humorous: it certainly has the jurisdiction and the authority to make the directives regarding Hezbollah and other Lebanese militias that it did, and those have an obligation to abide by its orders.

[Laotra]

78. The legal basis of UNSC

covers only international matters, it is clearly outside its legal powers when meddling in the internal matters of any nation without the consent of that nation. What is "humorous" or rather the opposite is your ignorance of the basic nature of the UN charter, which indeed is part of International Law when defined as international treaties ratified by the participating nations, unlike the SC administrative resolutions. Cf. Bush' executive power grab and US constitution.

As it is you that challenges the generally accepted view, it is your task to carefully read the UN Charter and prove me wrong, with links and quotes please.

[The Magistrate]

80. Consent Was Given, Sir, By The Then Existing Authority

You may attempt to evade the actual state of the matter all you please, but it will not get you anywhere.

[Laotra]

81. Defending ignorance

by evation does not suit you, nor does your intellectual laziness in refusing to read the UN Charter to get more correct view of the legal matters - but rest assured, I just checked the relevant parts, and you are still wrong and I'm right. To repeat, UNSC is granted by UN Charter, the Constitution of UN, certain powers over international disputes. But not over internal matters, which fall under national sovereignity - which UNSC was formed to protect in the first place. Domestic militias are clearly a matter of national sovereignity, unless you suggest UNSC has the legal power to disbandon US National Guard.

UNSC imperialistic resolutions over Haiti and Lebanon may be de facto, but not de jure. It is also de facto, not de jure, that US and other imperialistic powers of the Infamous Five have constantly abused the UN for their own narrow interests to the extent that I must agree with Chavez that UN is broken to the extent that it must be dissolved and build again on a more equal basis.

[Laotra]

83. 1559

I checked the 1559, and the trick used was to deny that Lebanese governement is fully sovereign, so that the opinion of the sovereign Lebanese governement needed not to be taken into consideration. The consept of "partial sovereignity" is very fuzzy at best, and could be made when there is an international dispute, such as occupation of part of the territory (by Israel in this case). Another possible case could be civil war. Neither situations existed when the resolution was issued, and SC 1559 is clearly in violation of the 2.1.: 1. "The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all its Members."

I assume the legal basis was not a dispute (which would allow stricter measures) but a mere "situation" that could threaten international peace and security, but in that case they should not have called for disbanding and disarming of militias (that in fact protected Lebanese sovereignity against foreign illegal occupation), but only that such militias do not threaten or violate other members of UN.

Any case, 1559 is a recommendation, not a binding resolution that could be supported by more strict measures.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. Make it painful enough where Hezbollah will be forced

out of Lebanon.

Israel does not want to occupy Lebanon. For god sakes they LEFT on their own accord.

But what amazes me in all of this is... the root of the problem, has never been addressed by anybody. The root quite frankly is... the pattern has to be broken, and Hesbollah does not want that

by the way, in 1970 there was an event in Fat-ah History known as Black September. Israel had made it painful enough on Jordan that Jordan had enough and they drove the Fat-ah movement out of Jordan. I believe there is a similar logic at work here, but unlike Jordan, these folks are the poor shah who have gotten the rotten side of the stick for all of Lebanese history. They are not the better to do Drucie Christians who really do not care about them, unless they are their laborers, nor do the central mainly sunni government in Lebanon cares much about them... and Hesbollah also knows that the central government in Beirut is unable to drive them out... but if the central government asks for international aide to disarming them and comply with the UN resolution.. that might even include NATO or Arab League troops.

[The Magistrate]

67. My Guess, Ma'am, Is That That Will Not Work

The P.L.O., in both Jordan and Lebanon, was a species of interloper, and such things can indeed be expelled. Hezbollah is native, and a natural enough outgrowth of the rural Shia tribes in the south of Lebanon, and both their experiences in recent history and their religious convictions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. Oh I agree with you

the fact that this is what it looks like they want and what will work are two different things.

[theHandpuppet]

77. To create even more terrorists?

Because that is essentially what they have just done.

[Balbus]

88. To stop Hezbollah for them.