The US could pay off the National Debt in 1-2 years and create

[IndyOp]

a stable money supply that would virtually eliminate periods of inflation or depression in future. Impossible? Not according to Milton Friedman.

Yeah - I know: MILTON FRIEDMAN... :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

The link to this video was posted here last Sunday and there were a few positive comments about it, so I watched it. There is a whole lot of history that I knew nothing about and this seems to be a plan that would work in favor of us all. It is really pretty simple.

Friedman outlined a strategy by which we would replace $ printed by the Federal Reserve with money (scrip) printed by the US Government. The US had a scrip-based economy before the American Revolution. The scrip-based economy was so successful that England outlawed it and according to Benjamin Franklin, that action - not the taxes - was what caused the Revolutionary War. Jackson, Lincoln & Van Buren all tried to get the US economy back on a scrip system. Two out of three of them were, of course, assassinated.

To back up just a bit...

The Federal Reserve is a private, for-profit bank that makes HUGE profits by charging the US government interest for printing our money. That is, when the government needs money, they issue bonds to the Fed and the Fed prints money for the government to spend. Problem? The government goes into debt - and has to buy back the bonds in $$ plus interest. What guarantee does the government give the Fed that the "loan" (the new dollars for government spending) will be repayed? Us. The guarantee that we will pay our income taxes.

Further: When the Fed constricts the money supply the nation goes into a depression. When the Fed relaxes the money supply too much the nation goes into an inflationary period in which dollars don't buy much.

Why does a private bank print our money?

The Bank of London was the first Central Bank and it spawned Central Banks of other nations - including the US. These banks have had HUGE impact on world history. War is profitable for the Central Banks, because nations will go into debt to win a war - more debt that has to be paid back with more interest than for any other cause.

The International Monetary Fund, The World Bank - you will understand a LOT more about it and our options for *really* changing this nation and our world if you watch:

The Money Masters: Part I
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4991544789166784731&q=Money+Masters

The Money Masters: Part II
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3731971780119435155&q=Money+Master%20s

WARNING: The two parts last about 3 hours and this is not a 'well-made' film. Deep-voice history guy reads quotes and the host shakes his pen at you a lot to emphasize the importance of what he is saying.


The Money Masters website includes:

Frequently Asked Questions

Comments from people around the world


Final Note: I am absolutely not well-informed about monetary policy, so this whole thing could be smoke and mirrors. I found it interesting.

[tuvor]

1. The entire debt in a year or two?

Sounds too good to be true.

(That is the extent of my understanding of monetary policy.)

[IndyOp]

2. Friedman's comment is aged now - with the current debt it

could take 5 or 6 or 8 or 10. But it COULD be paid off to the great benefit of all citizens...

[TheMadMonk]

24. And if it sounds too good to be true it almost certainly is.

[wtmusic]

3. 7 trillion in two years? That's rich

If we maintained Clinton's BEST year (bringing in a surplus of $523B) we could pay it off in oh, 15 years or so

[BayCityProgressive]

4. Friedman

while I disagree on many issues withhim, is a pretty interesting guy. He also supports a Basic Income Gaurantee for all Americans.

[IndyOp]

8. Clinton was working with debt-based $$, not scrip.

To see why that matters, please read website or watch video.

[wtmusic]

9. You lost me on "The Federal Reserve is a private, for-profit bank"

http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/frseries/frseri.htm

[serryjw]

10. The Federal reserve is owned by banks

Who owns the banks? The wealthiest in the world.

[wtmusic]

14. Oh really

Then how come the Board of Governors are appointed by the President? If they "own" the bank, can't they appoint their "own" governors?
If it's "owned" by banks, why was it created by an act of Congress in 1913? If member banks "own" the Federal Reserve, why can they be kicked out by the Board for failure to comply with the Federal Reserve Act? :shrug:

News to me.

[serryjw]

17. All the answers to your questions

are in the OP article as well as dozens on the internet.

[IndyOp]

13. There was an Act of Congress that gave the Fed it's power -

but the Fed is a Government entity. There were two private, central banks in US that preceded the Fed - they failed. The Fed was created in 1913 -- in, apparently, a very sneaky move: The Senate had adjourned for a break, but had not officially invoked "sine die" - which means that absolutely no legislative business can happen until the next session. So, a small group of Senators held a voice vote and approved the Act. If only one Senator had objected the Act creating the Fed would not have passed.

Despite... warnings, Woodrow Wilson signed the 1913 Federal Reserve Act. A few years later he wrote: I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men. -Woodrow Wilson

If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. -Thomas Jefferson

History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance. -James Madison

If congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations. -Andrew Jackson

The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity. -Abraham Lincoln

And, according to the video, appointments to the board are controlled 'externally' -- that is, the President is given a short list of 'appropriate nominees' and the Pres picks one...

[wtmusic]

16. You make a good argument

and I will watch the video. :thumbsup:

[IndyOp]

21. Cool. I should've said: Although an Act of Congress gave the Fed it's

power, the Fed is NOT a Government entity.

Let me know what you think of the video...

:eyes:

[Yupster]

11. and even that surplus

was mostly social security supluses which were theoretically being saved for when the boomers retire.

[grytpype]

5. How many times have you posted this tinfoil hat bullshit?

I could swear I've seen it at least twice before.

[BayCityProgressive]

6. me?

[IndyOp]

7. I've never posted this before. I think you owe me an apology.

That is just my opinion, but your reply is a personal attack, not a comment.

[serryjw]

12. The reason this bullshit continues

for almost 100 years it because no one wants to spend the time to understand how we are getting screwed.

[IndyOp]

15. I feel like I am in over my head, but it is important to

try to understand.

Last weekend, watching the video and taking copious notes - I was shocked.

The historical information seems on target and the endorsers include Arun Gandhi and Milton Friedman:

"What you have shown in the scenario is what we are constantly doing at the personal level as well as the public level. It is the policy of exploitation that the rich employ against the poor. This is why grandfather said 'Materialism and morality have an inverse relationship - when one increases the other decreases.' If I may, I would like to keep the videos as resource material to teach students about economic violence in the world. With good wishes. Yours sincerely, Arun Gandhi, M.K. Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence"

"As you know, I am entirely sympathetic with the objectives of your Monetary Reform Act...You deserve a great deal of credit for carrying through so thoroughly on your own conception… I am impressed by your persistence and attention to detail in your successive revisions... Best wishes. Milton Friedman," Nobel Laureate in Economics; Senior Fellow, Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace

What do you recommend?

[serryjw]

18. You answred your own questions in YOUR

#13 post...Go back to YOUR OP link under FAQs. It explains in simple terms. After, if still interested I have posted several times ( search) about the FEDERAL RESERVE.

NOBODY that wants to LIVE will ever try and destroy the FR>>>JFK tried

quote.....
On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed with the authority to basically strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business. The Christian Law Fellowship has exhaustively researched this matter through the Federal Register and Library of Congress. We can now safely conclude that this Executive Order has never been repealed, amended, or superceded by any subsequent Executive Order. In simple terms, it is still valid.

end quote......
http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thefederalreserve.htm

Many have said this is bullshit.....BUT JFK is still dead, as far as I know

[IndyOp]

22. Thanks. I couldn't tell if your reply of "bullshit" was describing

my OP or one of the other replies on the thread. The video didn't address Kennedy, but I was wondering about that while watching. Holy crap. It fits with the rest of what I know about who was involved in Kennedy's assassination.

How do we get out of this? If 90% of the world's population knew, it would be over quickly - few would respond to the people pulling the strings and the rest would see through the lies.

[serryjw]

20. More info for your education

ONE of my favorites!
http://www.canadianliberty.bc.ca/relatedinfo/dick_eastman.html

The best article on the history of the Federal Reserve and monetary funds
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/reserve.htm

[IndyOp]

25. Total transition to governing by corporation (fascism):

from your top link...

Proposal #1: That the "tax rebate" to the middle classes be given in the form of locked-in (can't touch, can't withdraw) saving accounts "retirement accounts" -- to fatten the pool of "other people's money" that bank lending officers and investment managers can draw upon to leverage their global bullying. All of the funds are to be put at the disposal of the big banks with no "accountability" (i.e., no threat that depositors can withdraw their deposits if they do not like the way the proceeds are being invested and managed.

[lpbk2713]

19. Prosecute all the rethuglican thieves (and there are many)

who plundered the American economy and make them forfeit what they stole.

[Telly Savalas]

23. The national debt is about $8.4 trillion, GDP is about $12.5 million

If we're willing to commit a third of all wealth created to paying the debt, then it's conceivable that we could pay off the national debt in two years. Granted the stupidity of this course of action would be of such monumental proportions that Bush would look like a visionary genius of fiscal policy in comparison.

[IndyOp]

26. Your reasoning is based on debt-based dollars printed by the

Federal reserve. The situation changes if the US Government prints debt-free scrip. Friedman argues that the transition from Federal Reserve Bank Notes (debt-based $) to United States Notes (debt-free) would be hardly noticed by average Americans. Taxes would not rise, instead, we would be truly paying off the debt instead of paying interest on the national debt using Fed bank notes for which we also have to pay interest.

This idea is thinking way 'outside the box' -- but it is really sane and simple once you understand the difference between Fed Res Notes and US Notes...

The OP has links to the Money Masters' website - the FAQ's have a lot of information...

[dcfirefighter]

27. Scrip

I've been a fan of the MM site for some time now. Best I can figure, the 'Down' side is that demand deposits would no longer provide interst. (a whopping fraction of a percent in most cases). In fact, you'd likely have to pay a bank to protect your deposits, a monthly service fee or something like that.

In order to earn interest, you'd have to risk your money - invested in interest paying corporate or municipal bonds, or mortgage funds.

Additionally, there would be no 'risk free' investments.

The up side, as far as I can tell:
1) stop giving unearned profits to banking institutes, further exacerbating the gap between rich and poor.
2) The US Government would create $9.3T (existing money supply) x 3% ~= $280B in new money each year. This money would not have to be taken from anyone. At one point, this was approximately the size of our annual deficit.
3) the US government would also enjoy the absence of annual debt payments, which would account for another $200-$300B a year. These two things would provide for an annual budget surplus.

[adwon]

28. Stables prices are extremely bad

We had a period of price stability in the US from about 1870 to 1890. It's known as the Great Deflation.

[Junkdrawer]

29. I ordered the DVDs - mostly for the 19th century history...

Banking was a big political issue in the 19th century. After the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, the issue largely disappeared. My take for the disappearance of the issue is:

1.) The Central Bankers got what they wanted.

2.) The fact that the board was appointed by the Senate seemed to be about as much control as the people were going to get out of the bankers.

3.) Since there have not been any bank runs since the FDR bank holidays, people are happy with ANY system that insures their life savings won't disappear overnight.

All of the above does NOT mean that the current system is fair or just. It does mean that, until the system fails, the odds of ANY change are slim and none.

[ThomWV]

30. That Was The Most Distorted Description Of The Fed I've Ever Seen

I would not even know where to begin ....