You know what, I hate humans...

[Solon]

You know, really, its easy to say you "hate" this person or the next person due to skin color or religion, or some other bullshit reason used to divide us and turn our weapons onto each other. However, really, it all comes down to this, we are the ONLY species on the planet that actually outright TRIES to eliminate ourselves. The WORST animal besides us are Chimpanzees(cue the Bush jokes), which are also the only other species that makes war against itself, but they pale in comparison to our own depravities.

We rape, pillage, kill, with impunity, we fake that we are better than other animals because we have "civilization" but really, are we any better than the dogs or cats we welcome into our homes? We know they love, but do they hate? Not mearly dislike something, but hunt it down, kill it, just because they absolutely HATE it? Do they band together and kill off entire packs of other animals for no reason?

If there is ONE unique aspect of humans that separates us from all other animals it is this, total war. We are a depraved species, a species of spite and hatred, a species of outright stupidity. Sometimes I wonder if it would be any great loss to Mother Earth if we were wiped out? Maybe if we got out of the way, and another species took our place, thousands or millions of years hence, they would see what ruins of our civilization is left and learn a better way. That's about as optimistic as I can get at this point. We have learned NOTHING from history, we are collectively insane.

[beam me up scottie]

1. Wow.

It's like you're in my mind, Solon.

I've felt this way for a long time.

[Solon]

10. You know what I find sad...

Think of Martin Luther King Jr. or Ghandi, of which he modeled his stuggle after, or a few others who we also note as peacemakers in life. The fact that we HAVE to mark their birthdays, or that they rise so highly in our history books is a testament of the value of their character, but also shows us a stark reality, that they are RARE. Its the diamond in the rough, think of Bush, of his immoral lack of character, and remember he is the standard by which we humans should be judged in the whole. Its a sad thing to think about but its true.

[beam me up scottie]

15. I find it horrifying

that President Jimmy Carter is held in contempt by many of his fellow christians in the bible belt, while they sing the praises of that troglodyte.

They have no idea what constitutes good character.

[Solon]

17. It is horrifying, to be honest, I just don't know what is wrong with...

people. I mean, we only seem to appreciate the TRUE peacemakers AFTER they are dead, then we say, "Hey yeah, they were right." then we quickly forget WHAT they said and WHAT they stood for, and repeat the SAME mistakes they were railing against. Its disgusting, I mean, the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again, expecting the same result, well, we have been doing that for over 5,000 years, I think Humans are collectively insane.

[beam me up scottie]

19. Maybe humans are collectively insane.

Or could it be it's just us.

Maybe this makes sense to the players who are following some rulebook only they are privy to.

[sweetheart]

22. humans?

I agree with you, but i don't believe it is all humans, just american culture and those that inhale.

The culture is locked in an imperial/war frame where its only advantage is the size of its war production
capability. This capability is the only thing the US now stands for, and defending it, along with its
resources of oil, and metals. And that system abuses its children until they are cynically broken,
hateful and ungenerous, much like itself.

The system is subhuman then, inorganic and degenerate, something to abhor. And people are dying from
the toxic disease of this system who's entire purpose is to kill and consume its slaves that they not
have the power to control it and put it down.

I don't hate humans, for there is love in every human, somewhere, however re-directed and misappropriated,
and if i give up on humanity, then i'll be dead, no longer listening to the prescient sounds of
life growing all around me, for a dead closet of knumb retirement, my coffin wallpapered with
fundamentalist texts i've scrawled in emotional moments. :-)

peace,

[Mythsaje]

45. American Culture?

I've got to laugh at this.

You mind telling me when, historically speaking, humans were any better? It seems a little odd to blame it on America when the whole history of the world is filled with fucked up people doing fucked up things.

[sweetheart]

62. "american culture"

Our popular american culture today represents a consensus of petrol-headed police states that
is the corporatocracy worldwide, a metaphor far beyond the nation state "murika". Our system
exports poverty and slavery to its fringes, and as the world's 6+ billions take up trying to
live by the expectations of this exported culture of single-driver cars and urban sprawl,
the system is on a collission course with a class war.

As what is american culutre but business and corporations, military invasions and war,
security and prisons, police and democratic authorities who yell at everybody and order
them to follow about because they're the best thing going?

I could say "neo-anglo" culture, or corproate-war culture, or just the matrix and its perpetual
intent to enslave the masses to its destructive complex.

[tavalon]

57. I hate to be the one to tell you this

but there are hundreds of countries not so prominent who have or are killing each other, enslaving each other and overall, just behaving badly. Even in Iraq, where we are the bad guys, there are plenty of bad guys chomping at the bit to kill other not so great guys with a lot of innocents in the crossfire. We are not alone in our badness. We are well known for our badness but that doesn't make the rest of the world good. That's some seriously black and white thinking.

I don't hate humans either, though with some I find it difficult to see the goodness.

[sweetheart]

66. painted with tragic moral sadness

Please take no insult at the use of "american". I use the lower case entity to describe the greater woooly concept,
and upper case "American" to talk about the country, or perons thereof. In the lower case american, we have a
deeply troubling problem of bad treatment of the poor, as they sell off normal social services to become private
members clubs, buying up cheap infrastructure for the aristocracy using private capital vehicles like carlysle group.

The fish rots from the head, and the new global economic system is american head'ed by its exporting of the transport/petrol
model from its standard oil and ford innovators, models that commuted in to world wars to show the new power of collective
manufacturing and the consolidation of power that communications speeds have transported. And all of it is based on
trust, and the trust is bankrupt when crim-stim rules the helm.

[Branjor]

49. Yes....

It is like you are in my mind too.

I think you mean insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a DIFFERENT result.

[misanthrope]

69. Carter told Jon Stewart...

... the reason that he, a fairly conservative Southern Baptist, is so reviled by the others of his general background is because he "told the truth and a lot people didn't like that."

[mitchum]

53. You're right, the fact that Dr King and Ghandi are considered...

extraordinary human beings is quite telling. And sad.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Solon]

18. Even viruses serve a purpose....

I mean, even in the act of killing a cell, they reproduce, as far as I can tell, taking the long view, we have yet to kill another that netted a positive result for our own species.

[RummyTheDummy]

2. The late Bill Hicks said it best....

Humanity is a virus with shoes.

[Libertino]

3. You are obviously ignorant of the 'animal world'

Also, be more careful with that 'WE'

[Libertino]

4. ps

You all at least be consistent and liquidate yourselves. :)

[acmejack]

39. You first, you fountain of wit.

[Hosnon]

40. No kidding...if you want to see pure selfishness and savagery, check

out the animal world.

[LWolf]

56. I have. I find very few examples

of "pure selfishness and savagery." The closest I can come is the domestic cat. Cats love to play with prey. They will bring it in the house, set it loose, stalk it, torture it, set it loose, again and again until it is finally dead. I'm sure this is some kind of "practice," but it is savage in that they don't make a clean kill. They also don't eat all of their prey. Much of it is given as a "gift" to the human family. Either they are treating us like kittens who need parents to hunt for us (perhaps turning prey loose in the house is to teach us to hunt for ourselves?) or just offering gifts to the household servants who care for them.

Outside of that, no examples come to mind. I don't include the biological imperative to eat and survive "selfishness" or "savagery."

It is the human animal that derives psychological pleasure from "winning," which often is not a matter of survival, but of causing pain or loss to the opponent.

[ChickMagic]

101. Chimpanzee researchers have discovered

that troops of chimps do, in fact, wage war on other troops.
I think it's hardwired in us.

[LWolf]

103. I do remember hearing this.

Interesting that it would be another primate that likes to go to war.

[MysteryToMyself]

5. The dark side

America lost her mind on 9/11. We had lost touch with reality before then, but after that we have had pyschotic rages. It is like we have been taken to the dark side and paranoid imaginings have became reality.

Who will lead us out of the darkness? Bush? I don't think so.

[beam me up scottie]

9. "America lost her mind on 9/11"

Truth.

You should post more often.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kutjara]

6. Unfortunately, we are damaged goods.

Our species evolved to live in scattered communities, dotted around the savannahs of our ancestral home. We developed social skills based on family and tribe. Our problem solving abilities are those of the hunter and the farmer/gatherer. We weave complex myths and faiths to explain things larger than ourselves and then establish those myths as central determinants of our identities. We fear 'otherness' because we think that strange things are innately threatening.

Given our terrible limitations, it's amazing that our intelligence (which is really our only competitive advantage) has brought us as far as it has. Unfortunately, intelligence, reasoning, logic and rationality are all too easily overwhelmed by more primitive responses, particularly when our emotions take control. This is why people can be very reasonable as individuals, but slavering maniacs in a mob or an army. When more than a half-dozen of us are gathered together, tribal instincts take over and our decisionmaking ability is thereafter little better than that of our most primitive ancestors.

I don't know how we will get past the lacunae and damage within us but I do know that, if we don't, we won't survive. What helped our ancestors thrive will surely kill us.

[misanthrope]

70. This is one of the best posts...

...in this thread. Now you're thinking like an anthropologist, which is needed drastically around the world.

[Forrest Greene]

81. In Short

...maybe we are not wise enough to handle being as smart as we are.

[renate]

7. I agree with what you say

On the other hand, are there other animals who will extend a helping hand to others they don't even see?

Dogs and dolphins are the most obvious examples, but many animals will help others who they see are in need. But is there another animal who sacrifices for those whom they only know to be in need?

Many of the people here have given passionately of their time and energy and resources because of injustices visited upon others. There are liberals who are wealthy but who are liberals because they know that what is happening to the non-wealthy is not fair, and they give of their money and time and abilities to help. And of course there are liberals who have almost nothing but who risk everything to stand up for what is right.

Humans are capable of inflicting unimaginable horrors but they are also capable of great and unselfish love.

We need to criticize the first capability but we shouldn't discount the power of the second.

[Solon]

14. We are a complex species...

but the bad almost always outweighs the good. Let me give another example in the animal world, the Elephant. If an Elephant herd comes across wildebeasts stuck in mud, that will starve if left there, they will risk their own lives to free the wildebeasts. That's something we used to attribute to just humans, altruism.

In the past, when Elephants turned violent it was usually of one or two varieties of violence, Rogue Males in must, or Captive Elephants who were abused. Now, a new phenomenon is occuring, due to human encroachment, Elephants are finding themselves in areas where they can barely support themselves, poachers kill off family groups, the calves suffering from PTSD and other psychological traumas, and now even entire herds are fighting back. So now it seems Elephants have learned to hate, and they were given good teachers, us humans.

[readmoreoften]

20. What God Do the Elephants Worship?

I was reading a thread the other day that proffered an argument I've always thought was the height of arrogance and absurdity: that religious people invented altruism. I had the misfortune to hear this for the first time during a brief stint in Catholic school. "Only Christians are truly motivated to help people because they are God-inspired. Secular humanists only do so out of (choose one: social obligation, guilt, rote training, or even... they don't help others at all!) These people were actually saying that Christianity INVENTED social conscience. I mean, the unmitigated arrogance. What god do elephants worship? When a dog risks its life to save a drowning infant, what god is he worshipping? About the dogs who fail to rescue those in need-- are they non-believers or do they simply worship the wrong deity.

We have a lot to learn from nature. And maybe before we start in with how "superior" we are we should accept that, historically, we are a savage species.

Someone else actually said that to me tonight: virus with shoes. I'd rather be an elephant.

[chookie]

32. Thanks for a deeply meaningful, thoughtful and intriguing post

>>What god do elephants worship? When a dog risks its life to save a drowning infant, what god is he worshipping? About the dogs who fail to rescue those in need-- are they non-believers or do they simply worship the wrong deity?<<

You raise excellent, startling questions. They'll be on my mind for a long time.

There's a Ph.D in the questions you raise....

[misanthrope]

71. Be careful...

...Porpoises also commit rape.

And dogs are intrinsically neurotic and can do some very brutal things themselves.

[Solon]

74. Can you elaborate on dogs?

I'm not disputing what Porpoises do, Dolphins also use sex to show dominance as well. But as far as I can tell, Dogs that are neurotic, and therefore dangerous, are those that are breeds suffering from inbreeding and breeding for dogfights, etc. Those situations that are artificial selection of certain traits, human created artificial selection at that.

[misanthrope]

77. Well...

...the entire idea of dog "breeds" is, in itself, a perversion. It's not too far removed from the belief in races among humans.

All dogs are merely Canis lupus familiaris, a subspecies of the wolf (Canis lupus Linnaeus). Their inherent neuroses, manifested to greater and lesser extents in the individual animals, are a result of the artificial selection at the heart of their origin. Genetically, dogs are wolves but we have selected traits that we find desirable and not paid heed to the overall effect.

In other words, dogs are neotenized wolves. What does that mean? It means that while natural selection has made a wolf as a fully independent, thinking and feeling animal, we have removed some of that through breeding. What you see in a dog is the result of such. The dog displays a variety of juvenile traits in both its appearance and behavior that would be an aberration in the natural world.

Let's say you took a person and selected for the same things with the same results. You would have an adult human that had a larger than normal head, ears that changed shape to be more like a child, a body that changed its general proportions and capabilities (normally lessening the physical capabilities), a mind that thinks like an immature member of its species. The result would be something common parlance used to deem "retarded."

To say that neuroses would arise in such a creature is not a stretch. In a dog, those neuroses are part of what makes them more manageable than their wolf counterparts.

I'm not trying to deride dogs as I have a particular fondness for them and they have undeniably enriched my life however, I still understand them for what they are and love them as such.

[Solon]

79. This is probably part of the reason I like mutts more than "purebreds"...

I pretty much agree with you on the debasement humans have done to dogs. I like mutts for the simple reason that most of the time, humans had NOTHING to do with the result, most of the time, and they are generally less likely to develop problems, both physical and psychological, than their purebred counterparts. Though, I will say that this isn't universal. My own dog Lucky(RIP), was an unfortunate crossbreed between a Lab and a Dachsund, I don't know HOW that happened, but it did. He only stood to about you knee at the shoulder, but his body was about twice the length, and mass, than his legs should have supported. He suffered from "bow legs" that dachsunds have, and in later years he suffered from artheritis in his front legs.

Don't get me started on breeding and freakin animal shows, I'll end up railing against another travesty, cat breeding, which is much more recent, only in the past 100 years has it been practiced, but look at the results, Persians? Give me a good tabby, or a semi-feral shorthair any day of the week, they seem more "stable" for want of a better word. I don't see why humans have to fuck with nature in such a way that it is dentrimental to the very well being of those animals they fuck with. I'm not so much railing against having pets, in some cases, that is an ideal way for both species to survive.

This probably shows a contrast, cats were domesticated in far different ways than other domesticated animals, including Wolves. Most likely Wolves were domesticated by humans stealing some pups and raising them, cats, on the other hand, couldn't be domesticated that way. Anyone who knows cats knows that in the first weeks after birth, if they aren't acclimated to humans, they NEVER will be. This is something that hasn't changed that much in the 5,000 years or so that humans have domesticated cats. It was more or less an accident, we stored grain, rats came to feast, and cats came to kill the rats, humans saw that, and eventually both species used each other to survive.

The thing about cats, of course, is the fact that humans haven't seen a need to change them for specialized purposes in all those years, there are no sheep cats, nor are there guard cats, etc. Cats are mousers, by and large, they still are, to this day, though whether your cat actually LEARNED to be mousers is a different story. I really am disturbed at the new breeds coming out lately, like the dwarfed cat, or the modern day Persians(compared to Persions of 50 years ago). It just seems wrong.

[misanthrope]

84. I don't mind cats...

...but I don't like Persians. I think they're grotesque.

Canis lupus is a social animal. Felines, other than lions, aren't..unless forced into it. That's the whole ball of wax right there. That's why cats will never be domesticated like dogs are.

[Solon]

86. That's not universally true...

Have you ever seen feral cats in either the city or country? They usually form large "gangs" for want of a better word, where they hunt or scavenge together, the females even help each other give birth and raise the young, etc. I don't know what the exact influences humans have had on this behavior, but it isn't a fluke, even though these animals have had little contact with humans, and are now generally regarded as pests, this is why fixing these animals is important. They can even get in quite LARGE groups of sometimes more than 50 individuals. I don't know how to explain this behavior, but perhaps, through centuries of acclaimation with humans, domestic cats have been bred to be less anti-social than their wild cousins.

As far as cat breeding itself, I feel sorry, more or less, for breeds like Persians, looking at what they LOOKED like 50 years ago, just really puffy yet normal SHAPED cats, at least in the head, nowadays their tear-ducts are inadequete, and many can't even breathe through their noses, THAT'S grotesque.

[novalib]

80. Yet Another Way That Humans

Yet one more way that humans are either unwilling or unable to live in harmony with nature.

We are the species that breeds dogs. And, in that process, messes up nature.

Dogs may be good companions and such, but, as you point out, they are perversions of nature.

WE humans have caused the neuroses that dogs have.

[Hissyspit]

8. We are a species of contradictions...

Or seeming contradictions.

I have a real problem when people try to separate us greatly from other mammals, when it is clear we are animals, too, with certain specialities of conciousness and behavior and capacity developed. When someone like Ted Nugent makes a comment (as he did in an interview in France) saying deer only think about their next food, shit or fuck, I think of when saw a fawn hit by my mother's car as she was driving in front of me. The mother doe came back and stood over the fawn prodding it to get up, clearly disturbed. My cats have personalities more complex and individual than some people I know. To have any BASIC comprehension of the true nature of homo sapiens sapiens with in reality, one has to realize that they are animals, highly complex, unique in SOME ways, but not all.

[beam me up scottie]

13. I like what hunter had to say about that in the R&T forum the other day:

"Most people are quick to draw a line between humans and other animals because they are entirely unwilling to face the stark horror of how we humans abuse our fellow creatures."

[skids]

11. monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground n/t

[readmoreoften]

21. that about sums it up. /nt

[skids]

60. Don't give me the credit...

...it's lyrics from the latest TOOL album.

[misanthrope]

72. I've always said...

...our species' slogan should be:

Homo sapiens: the fightin'est, fuckin'est monkeys around

[NMMNG]

12. The Terminator (actually, the writer) was right about humans

"It is in your nature to destroy yourselves."

From the beginning of history and likely until the end this has been and will be true.

[Skittles]

24. no it is not in our nature

the brainwashing of religion is what makes us destroy ourselves

[NMMNG]

26. But religion was created by humans

So it all falls back on us either way.

[Skittles]

29. there are many of us quite immune to religious brainwashing

it's not in all people to believe such stuff

[Strathos]

48. But they never stand up to the others

Many of us are immune or at least protected prophylactically from religious brainwashing, but hardly any of us will unite and stand up against the injustice or forced religion and morals and ethics that we don't agree with. It is our own fault for letting it get out of hand and being complacent.

[mitchum]

54. You are right Skittles...religion is the tool used by those who want to...

control other humans by exploiting the fear of the finality of death. The "need" for religion is not innate.

[NMMNG]

88. True

I'm a non-believer myself.

However not all believers are hell-bent on destruction, nor are they all "brainwashed".

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

99. There've been plenty of atheist killers.

Stalin and Mao come to mind.

[rainy]

38. Religion was created by humans to explain the unexplainable

However, it was power hungry leaders who used religion to control the masses and lead them to do the unthinkable in religion's name to benefit the leader's goals.

[NMMNG]

89. I'm aware of why/how religion came about

And much like anything, when in the wrong hands it is used as a tool of evil and destruction.

[Rageneau]

23. Man is the only animal that blushes -- or needs to. (SLC)

Also, 'Some humans ain't human' -- John Prine.

[UndertheOcean]

25. Life is the culmination of all possibilities...

A playground of all the dance moves..

The good , the bad , the indifferent..

The murderer lurking in the alley , the serial killer , the loving grandfather , the child molester.

The jingiostic youth , cynical poet , depressed mom , the poor , the wretched , the rich and unhappy.

The dying , the already dead , the suckling babe.

The Politician , the merhant , soldier , children playing with guns , children incinerated by bombs.

The loving couple , the wounded widow, the jealous siblings.

Hate , love , compassion , pity , creulty , mysticism , hedonism , boredom.

Breathing , drowning , bleeding , jumping , throwing up , petting.

The erotic , the gastly , the morbid the sad...

The tragic , the lion shredding its pray .

Ants , ant colonies expanding their dominion.

And the kingdom of heaven is alive and dead , unattainable and everywhere.

See , the thing that must be done , once you percieve the flow of bodies and blood , that thread in which you are just a bead , is to stop , and while your eyes are pointed toward heaven let the flood crush you , drown you .

[earth mom]

27. Religion is at the root of far too many wars...

talk about insane! :crazy:

Makes me VERY happy to be an agnostic! Who needs that noise?

[Skittles]

30. THANK YOU

I am SO SICK of religion, just SICK OF IT

[earth mom]

34. I hear ya. Wish they would wake up and see how

they are destroying the planet! :(

[misternormal]

28. George Carlin gave an analogy that went something like this...

The earth has been here much longer than any of us. The only reason that we were placed on this planet was because the earth needed plastic. Now that it has plastic, Mother Earth will likely shake us off like a bad case of fleas. Yes, Mother Earth shall have her way with us or without us.

[readmoreoften]

33. Funny, I was talking about that with a friend tonight too!

Geez, we were talking about Hicks' "virus with shoes" comment and Carlin's "earth needs plastic" comment. I agree. The earth needed plastic and we were a helpful bacteria in that respect, but harmful in all others.

[datasuspect]

31. all we are saying

is give aids a chance.

[chookie]

35. Humans: The Mean Monkey

That's the assessment I make, a lot of the time....

A startling experience of mine: I used to live in FL. Blissed out from the proximity to wonderful wildlife all around.

In winter, we would respectfully visit the Manatee habitats. Most manatees are very wary of humans -- you would shudder to see the propeller scars on their backs, and how little speedboat owners care (rednecks). But there are young manatees, and adult manatees who have not yet developed cynicism and fear of humans, who would not only allow you to approach, but who would take you in an embrace, and swirl with you in an underwater dance, out of sheer joy of life and company.

Below water -- peace, and quiet bliss, and plain old minding yer own business. Above the water, the mean monkeys were drinking to intoxication, were loud, and loudly arguing with each other, and nasty. They chased manatees and harrassed them. I once saw a drunken idiot strike one with a deck brush. Manatees were not the only object of their hostility, but as we were always in a canoe, the speedboat people regarded us with hostility, because obviously we were hippie pinkos railing on about inconvenient truths.

Manatees are nearly extinct. Redneck presence in FL is ever growing exponentially. My thought: more manatees, fewer rednecks, and it would be a better world.

Animals kill, and some wage total war (have a look at EO Wilson's studies of ants, and tremble.) It's not just a pure Mean Monkey thing.

(BTW: believe it or not, there occurs homosexuality in insects, and gender shifting in fish and amphibians -- what would Jerry Falwell make of this? Perhaps homosexual wasps caused the devastation in New Orleans, and not withdrawal from the Gaza strip.)

Humans have contributed sublime and universally meaningful achievements, at least for human life- Hippocrates, DaVinci, Mozart, Newton, Mahavira, Jesus, Buddha, Zeami, to name a very few. Kindness shows up in the strangest places -- always be open to finding it. Life has the potential to be beautiful, at least from time to time, and we all must strive to manifest it.

The only justice and goodness we can guarantee is that which we carry out ourselves.

Here's hoping humans will emerge who will positively impact all life on earth.

In conclusion -- ha ha as if this post was an organized or coherent statement -- I recall Samuel Clemens's wish, "If dogs can't enter heaven, I want to go where they go."

[shadowknows69]

36. K+R

n/t

[Minnesota Libra]

37. You said that right - I've always said I...........

....got along with animals much better than I get along with most humans. I despise my own species.

:applause:Anyway, thank you for a well thought out and totally appropriate post!!:applause:

[malaise]

41. Beautiful

Man is the most ignorant and self-destructive of all animals.

[moondust]

42. The plant and animal kingdoms

would be better off without us.

[Swamp Rat]

43. Just leave us the cheese, please!

:9

[Chalco]

44. On the Diane Rhem show many years ago...

she had a scientist guy on. They were talking about the state of the earth.

She asked him "What would happen if humans became extinct."

He said "All the other species would come back and the earth would flourish."

There is not a day that goes by that I don't think about that conversation.

[pecwae]

46. Your point was proved to me

when I spent 2 years close to and living with nature. I was part of the cycles of nature and it was glorious! Yes, there was death, but each one served a purpose to feed another species. No killing for the thrill or feeling of power over another. It's my hope that our Mother will outlive us and thrive in our absence, but it's a slim hope.

edit to add: this is one of the most heartfelt, honest posts I've ever read here. You've put your heart in this with no sly attempts at wit, intellectualizing or snark. Thank you for sharing a naked glimpse of your soul with us.

[Toots]

47. The Earth is infested with a virus called humanity

But Earth is about to immunize itself.

[WinkyDink]

50. Mother Earth can't be thrilled, either.

[madmusic]

51. Check you sig line:

"If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. --Frederick Douglass"

How do you reconcile that with what you are saying now?

[mitchum]

52. So do I, but I am a "Swiftian misanthrope":

in theory, I dspise humanity, including myself, but I like people.
This is opposed to the "Popeian misanthrope" who proposes a great love for humanity, but can't stand people.

[ixion]

55. I said this exact phrase the other day

truly loathesome species, if you ask me.

All this paegentry about 'civilization' when the actions of that construct defy the very definition. There is defintely nothing civilized about human civilization.

[Gregorian]

58. Why do you think I live as far from humans as possible.

And what's with the lousy architecture?

[lonestarnot]

59. Exercising dominion is a tough duty.

:rofl:

[michael_1166]

61. Gaia having a little chat....

"Human consciousness? Oh well, you know, at first it looked like a promising concept.

But then they started killing each other over fairy-tales they called "religions". Next thing happening was they perverted science, they mainly used it for inventing ways to kill each other. Stupid. And then all this environmental pollution... they brought the Earth to the edge of collapse and almost ruined it for their fellow creatures.

I just had to pull the plug on that madness! I have evolved: I'm now into developing socially interacting plant communities. And it's so much more beautiful to look at...

Humans? Consciousness? Not any longer on my planet!"

[Odin2005]

63. We truely are a violent species.

I read in a book on the pre-history of our species called Before the Dawn that 80-something % of communties of primitive societies are in a major conflict with other communities a least once per year, and thbat 61% of primitive societies are at war constantly (the Yamamnono tribe of Amazonia is a good example).

[Cerridwen]

64. I think this quote from "Men in Black" says it best for me...

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. " said by K to J when first discussing J's potential role as a "Man in Black"

That which you attribute to "people" I attribute to mob mentality rather than individual perversity. Most days. Other days I agree that we're a cancer on the planet earth.

[Deja Q]

65. Then stop being human.

:P

But in seriousness:

The "total war" thing is only a slight expansion on the territorial nature of many predatory animals (e.g. lions, tigers, et al.)

Oh, another thing humans have that animals don't is "compassion". It's amazing how few people ARE human in this day and age.

[Solon]

67. Its not such a slight extension...

I have yet to hear of one Lion Pride eliminating others surrounding it to conquer more territory. At most, Lion Prides, usually the Males, but even Females in many cases, will CHASE OFF rogue males. They don't pursue them and kill them out of spite or hatred, they only attack till there is no danger any more, and fatalities are rare.

As far as compassion, I don't see us as being unique in this aspect, I already used Elephants as an example further up in this thread, however, Gorillas and Dolphins also have an altruistic streak that is comparable to Humans.

[misanthrope]

68. What about lions that...

...take dominion over the pride and then kill the cubs sired by the previous leader?

Or other animals that will kill a female's young to force her into estrus again?

[Solon]

73. And we are better than that how?

In the past, and even today, humans that conquer others take their women, and rape them for pretty much the same reason, hell, they even kill those women's children, if not through outright murder, then through the starvation and neglect that follows. To say that humans are somehow "better" because we don't make it a widespread practice, today, of eating our young seems somewhat dishonest, dead is still dead.

[misanthrope]

75. I didn't say humans were better...

...It's just that you intimated lions were somehow more altruistic and their actions less brutal. I was giving an example that it's not necessarily the case.

[Solon]

76. I didn't say they were altruistic...

Just that they don't display the exact same behavior as humans as evidenced in war. In fact, compared to humans, Lions are downright angels, but I digress. Part of the problem is this, we can't really put most other animals on the same moral grounds as Humans and possibly SOME other more intelligent animals. For some reason I doubt the Lions actually "hate" the cubs left behind, but rather is driven by instinct more than anything else.

What is interesting is this, the more intelligent species on the planet seem to display behaviors, such as altruism, that humans have, however, in other cases, some of those same species also seem to have developed other behaviors like War. Chimpanzees declare war against each other, and are surprisingly human like in how that behavior is displayed. Granted, they are the only other species on the planet that displays this particular behavior, at least till much more recently.

Dolphins have gang violence to worry about, bands of mostly young males who terrorize the more stable family pods they swim with. Elephants don't hesitate to help other herd animals out of trouble, even at their own detriment, but at the same time, they can also suffer the same trauma humans struggle with, such as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and just like humans, many Elephants with this disorder are generally very hard to predict, and quite violent. Now, due to culling, and learning that in certain areas, such as in India, that they cannot be shot by guns, entire herds of Elephants are turning on the intruding humans, you could almost say they have learned war from the best teachers.

[novalib]

78. World-Wide ANNIHILATION

Humans are the ONLY species capable of bringing about complete and total world-wide annihilation.

We are the ONLY species that seems unwilling (or unable) to live in harmony with nature.

We (humans) want to master nature, andi in so doing, destroy it.

We (humans) are the ones who strip mine the earth of its resources.

We (humans) are the ones that pour chemicals into the earth and soil.

We are the only species that hunts as a "sport".

I, too, hate humans.

[misanthrope]

83. Like this?...

License To Kill

Man thinks 'cause he rules the earth he can do with it as he pleases
And if things don't change soon, he will.
Oh, man has invented his doom,
The first step was touching the moon.

Now, there's a woman on my block,
She just sits there as the night grows still.
And she says who's gonna take away his license to kill?

Now, they take him and they teach him and they groom him for life
And they set him on a path where he's bound to get ill,
Then they bury him with stars,
Sell his body like they do used cars.

Now, there's a woman on my block,
She just sits there facin' the hill.
And she says who's gonna take away his license to kill?

Now, he's hell-bent for destruction, he's afraid and confused,
And his brain has been mismanaged with great skill.
All he believes are his eyes
And his eyes, they just tell him lies.

But there's a woman on my block,
Sitting there in a cold chill.
And she says who's gonna take away his license to kill?

Ya may be a noisemaker, spirit maker,
Heartbreaker, backbreaker,
Leave no stone unturned.
May be an actor in a plot,
That might be all that you got
'Til your error you clearly learn.

Now he worships at an altar of a stagnant pool
And when he sees his reflection, he's fulfilled.
Oh, man is opposed to fair play,
He wants it all and he wants it his way.

Now, there's a woman on my block,
She just sits there as the night grows still.
And she says who's gonna take away his license to kill?

-Bob Dylan

[geomon666]

82. Amen

Been hating humanity since '96.

[Rex]

85. Not true, I've seen animals that hate other animals.

I've owned a zillion cats and dogs over my lifetime and seen most of them do things that can only be described as hate, I could find no other intent.

I'll give you an example - one of my cats was tormented by a pair of Chihuahuas as a kitten, when I found him he was torn up by scratches and bites. I bet they tortured that cat for at least a year. Now he is a huge orange, lion-like cat. Mane and all I bet he weighs about 25 pounds. Well, one day I found him snacking on one of the Chihuahuas, he'd killed it and was in the process of playing with the carcass. Sometimes I'd see him chase them around the block and couldn't believe he would do such a thing, but he did, I realize now, out of hate. This cat is pampered and well fed, no reason to eat or kill a dog. I never saw the other one after that, I hope he didn't get him too.

I have to admit I do feel like you most of the time, that is why I surround myself with cute and fluffy little animals, they are far more innocent than my species. Very little hate in cats and dogs as compared with humans. Humans seem born to hate.

[Solon]

87. I don't think we are born to hate...

I think its a learned behavior. The most obvious reason I think this is when I look at a infant, usually one of the absolute FIRST things a baby learns is to smile. They know nothing of hate, but seemed to know love right off. Humans, I think, are cursed by our intelligence, it helps us to survive, but we, and other animals with comparable intelligences, seem all to have similar curses in being hateful compared to the rest of the Animal Kingdom. We are a product of our experiences in addition to being controlled, partially, by our instincts, but the combination can be rather deadly. Anger is a natural survival response to stress, but combine it with past trauma, culture, or religion, and it is perverted into something wholly new, hatred, rage, and wanton violence.

[Rex]

90. I dunno, people like Strom, Rush and Coulter seem to have a genetic

defect that causes em to embrace hate or not be able to determine the difference between hate and fear. IMO.

[tomreedtoon]

91. We must DESTROY the puny humans!

All your base are belong to us! You have no chance make your time!

(Can't I have anyone provide a countervailing argument to this cynical post? Not even to say "Move Zig! For great justice!")

[The Straight Story]

92. Maybe some people spend too much time online

reading about the bad things about humans, and too easily reject the good in us all.

Hell, I dare someone to post a positive story about some catholic nuns who help some people - the reaction here would probably be that it don't mean shit because some other catholics in history did bad things, hence the good ones are mere propoganda.

The damn problem is cynical people who look too hard to make their beliefs real and reject anything to the contrary.

Six Billion+ people in the world, and the worst few of them make the news and the rest think we are mostly like that. Pretty damn sad to me.

No wonder we lose elections. America sucks, humans suck, everything sucks.

We ain't selling a vision, we are just bitching as loud as we can about the negative instead of sending a constant clear message of the good ideals we have. Who wants to listen to a bunch of people whining and telling us how much we all suck?

And about fundies and the like. My sister is a fundie and while I think is damn batty about things she and her husband have busted ass helping many a folk, regardless of their faith (she just dosen't seem to like to help family much...).

There is a lot of good going on in small towns and big ones all over the US. You just won't read about it here. Try www.usnpl.com for some local papers.

[WildEyedLiberal]

104. Thank you for your post.

You took the words right out of my mouth. It's no wonder people have a bad impression of the left, given a random sampling of posts made on DU every day:

"America is the worst country in the world, filled with warmongering greedy cruel apathetic fat religious wackjobs who don't care about anything and love to kill innocent people on the other side of the world!"

"Humanity is a virus, a plague on the earth, and our species should be eradicated to make way for all the peaceful animals!"

"Democrats are weak, spineless, cowardly corporowhores who love profiting from war!"

No solutions, no ideals, no hope - just an endless torrent of negativity and hatred, directed at everyone. Is it any wonder people think the left is filled with angry, vicious people who hate to see others happy?

The glorification of cynicism is one of the most unsavory things about this website, I have to admit.

[Guaranteed]

93. Lions and hyenas absolutely hate each other.

Well, at least the lions hate the hyenas.

I saw a male lion deliberately kill a helpless hyena pup who had broken its back, and make sure it was dead, on TV.

[hopeisaplace]

94. You said EXACTLY what I've been feeling.

I'm totally disgusted today. Today is my "disgusted day" ...so excuse me.

Pathetic. Disgusting. Horrible. (That's what I think about the human race today).
People afraid, others promoting hate, others say yes to war, others saying nothing,
babies dying, people going hungry..while others stuff their face. My disgust goes
to no-one in particular. Although I am completely ashamed of the leadership exhibited by
the leaders of many countries on this planet.

We inhabit a glorious planet, and what's happening right now as I type...a child is
suffering from war, from starvation, from racism, from neglect, from hate.

Hope, yes hope is my driving force, and it's what I feel most of the time, but I have
my moments and today is one of them.


:rant:

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

95. I see...

Why hate what simply is? We humans came into existance from a debatable origin by some means that was beyond our control to stop. We are imperfect beings, I'm assuming your are a proponent of evolution therefore am going to assume you realize that what we are in its entirity was merely the roll of an infinitly sided dice. As beings whose origins lay in this universal randomness what more could you honestly expect? A group of selfless automatons living in complete harmony with each other and their environment?

Your hate is wasted, you hate a species for acting as they are hardwired to do. If you want change don't you for one second think you'll find it by political means. If you hate a species because it is incapable of living up to your standards I should hope you are currently working on your masters in biomedical/genetic engineering and are a firm believer in the trans-humanist movement or post-human movement.

Better or worse, once are subjective relative concepts pretty much created by humans. To compare one life form to another lies completely within the subjective judgement of the being capable of making that actual call. My dog doesn't like the cat but it certainly does not think it is better. I declare myself better than both organisms merely because I can, they are unable to argue therefore I declare myself the winner... and it best suits the reality I've created for myself but either way the judgement is irrelvent and holds no significance whatsoever. In fact I could simply say I myself am the best life form ever and to me it is true but likely to everyone else it is not, however if every human thought it so then it would be. You could say one organism is more proficent at a specific skill or logically better suited for a certain environment or task. Functionally a human is arguably the most proficent of all animals as through his ability to communicate and deduce logically to an extent he is able to mimic and exceed are exceptional abilities of those around him. My dog can run faster than me but my car can carry me faster than my dog can run. My dog has sharper teeth making him a potentially worthwhile predator but most dogs wouldn't do so well against a human wielding a sword. The fact that we can simply group together and take out other herds as you mentioned with ease would prove that we are the most suited organism for survival on the short term (As currently our only competitors are ourselves and a bunch of races of single celled organisms) but long term that has yet to be seen. That ability to deduce certain information about the natural world has allowed us to create quite a few dangerous toys that could utlimately lead to our own demise.

This mother earth you mention is our creation, mother earths great loss would be "her" existance. Without humans mother earth is merely a collection of various metals, semi metals surrounded by a a thick layer of gas composed of primarly nitrogen and oxygen whose surface currently supports a diverse collection of animated organic matter which rotates continually around a massive compact body of plasma which is continually producing energy through nuclear fusion somewhere in the milkyway galaxy residing in some corner of the universe. Whether we are, or are not is really of no loss or gain, don't kid yourself.

So sit back and enjoy the ride, your a human, your irrational, insane, filled to the brim with hate and spite, what are you gonna about it? My advice, laugh at the absurdity of the situation and figure out a long term plan that allows for the steady release of dopamine into your carbon based body until your heart stops beating and then who knows what happens.

[misanthrope]

97. Nice post**nm

*

[DarkTirade]

96. I just ran across this link and I thought it would be appropriate to post

on this thread.
http://waiterrant.net/?p=268

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

98. ...

:nopity:

[Cleita]

100. I have always preferred the company of animals to humans myself.

However, I think our leadership, instead of being the cream of the crop, like they say it is, is more the bottom of the sewer in quality today.

In my 65+ years on this planet, I have found more decent humans than not, but unfortunately they are not running things today. We really have to get those decent humans up there in positions of leadership and send the sewage back to the hyperion plant for disinfecting.

[AnnInLa]

102. The only good thing Don Imus ever said:

"I like young children and old people....it's everyone in between that I can't stand."