Support Peace in the Middle East

[DFLer4edu]

With the latest wave of violence in the Middle East I have been saddened, but not surprised by the incredibly partisan reactions here at the DU. Those who support Israel blame Hamas and Hezbollah for starting this latest wave of violence. Those who support the Arabs see this as just the latest wave of Israeli aggression, which did not begin with the kidnapping of a solider, but which has been ongoing. Each of these points of view fails to recognize that this is a cycle of violence in which neither side is justified, but in which it is easy to understand the plights of both people. As one DUer pointed out, the game of who started it is at this point a child's game.
For those who see Israel as the aggressor, keep in mind that with an exception of Egypt and Jordan, no other Arab nation has signed a peace treaty with Israel recognizing Israel's right to exist. When Iran's president (Iran is not an Arab country in terms of language, but they definitely come down on the Arab side of the conflict and are culturally linked to the Arab world) said Israel should be wiped from the map, we may have thought in the US that it was just rhetoric, but Israel takes it seriously for obvious reasons. Since the creation of Israel, Arabs have been talking of driving them to the sea, many have tried. Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organizations. I find it hard to believe that if the US had such neighbors we would negotiate with them instead of building a wall around our country.
For those who see Israel as the victim of Arab terrorism and Arab aggression, the body count doesn't bear that out. Far more Palestinian civilians are killed than Israeli civilians. Israel provokes the Palestinians, and although the IDF does not systematically target civilians, they do show a blatant disregard for civilian life. The IDF does target civilian infrastructure which has little or nothing to do with terrorist organizations, water pumps and bridges being prime examples. If you were a Palestinian you would not see Hamas as a terrorist organization, but as your only means by which your poor third world country could fight against the vastly superior IDF forces and an oppressive Israel.

We have been having a debate about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, but we need to have a much broader debate. We need to ask ourselves whether we are doves or hawks. I think that if we had such a debate, we at the DU could virtually all agree that Middle East peace cannot be obtained through war as hawks on all sides would have their people believe. The Israelis and Palestinians can live together in peace or die together in war. If DUers who support Israel cannot see the suffering of the Palestinians, how can we hope for peace? If DUers who support Palestine cannot see the plight of Israelis, how can we hope for peace? This is a cycle of violence, and until both sides own up to their part in that cycle, there can be no peace. The blame game only perpetuates this cycle of violence. The blame game is the game of childish warmongers on both sides. The blame game is the game of hawks. And so I ask you, are you a dove or a hawk?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. Well said.

We could demand that our "leaders" quit arming both sides and get the other arms-supplying nations to agree.


The constant tit-for-tat violence on maintains the extremists, on both sides, and provides a living for the arms industry and gravediggers.

[DFLer4edu]

4. Don't forget coffin makers

Seriously though, the US has incredible influence over Israel because we are their arms supplier. It is a shame we don't use this card to bring Israel to the table.

[stray cat]

2. How do we define peace?

Peace to some in Hezballah is nothing short of destroying Israel and then there will be peace. It seems to me something must be done about the extremists on both sides that ruin any ceasefire or peace process. Is attacking or imprisoning radical extremists who are disrupting any chance at peace a step toward a peaceful solution? Do we support ceasefires in name only that don't achieve any change in policy? Lebanese civilians may desire peace but Hezballah does not and it is unclear who is really in charge of Lebanon.

[DFLer4edu]

3. Well we don't define it the way the radicals define it

"Peace to some in Hezballah is nothing short of destroying Israel and then there will be peace"
That's not peace, it's genocide. I think we can all agree on that. Just as a greater Israel with a wall around it wouldn't be a true peace.

"It seems to me something must be done about the extremists on both sides that ruin any ceasefire or peace process. Is attacking or imprisoning radical extremists who are disrupting any chance at peace a step toward a peaceful solution?"
Both sides need to work to reign in their extremists. One of my favorite analogies in terms of terrorism is thinking of it as a hydra, if you cut off one head, another will take its place. Israel cannot put an end to terrorism by killing all the terrorists. They will only radicalize more people and create more terrorists.

"Do we support ceasefires in name only that don't achieve any change in policy?"
No, the US needs to cut the crap and ensure that a cease fire means a cease fire. Then we need to bring all parties to the table and use our leverage to get a peace settlement. The US has already given Israel the carrot in terms of military aid and arms sales, we need to show them the stick: no aid, no sale of arms, and total diplomatic isolatioon if they do not do their part in a land for peace deal. As for the Palestinians, they have already seen the stick which is the Israeli army (the US being able either to give the IDF a free hand or reign it in by ending all aid and arms shipments to it), the US needs to offer the carrot: a massive unprecedented aid package for Palestine on condition that the Palestinians agree to and abide by a land for peace deal with the Israelis.

"Lebanese civilians may desire peace but Hezballah does not and it is unclear who is really in charge of Lebanon."
The US needs to do its part to undermine Hezballah by reigning in Israel. They can undermine Hezballah through economic aid that goes directly to the people. The better the economic situation, the more likely that people will reject and undermine radical ideologies. The US can also help the Lebanese government gain more control of southern Lebanon.

[DFLer4edu]

5. Maybe I should have titled the thread "Let's Nuke the Middle East"

this title would have at least gotten the thread some discussion. I find it sad that the DU, which is normally so antiwar, can't come to a consensus that both sides should stop the violence. Anyway, here is a kick for peace.