Mom Guilty Of Slaying 4-Year-Old Twins (alcohol?)

[The Straight Story]

Mom Guilty Of Slaying 4-Year-Old Twins

UPDATED: 2:22 pm EST January 17, 2006

ST. AUGUSTINE, Fla. -- A mother is convicted in the slaying of her children.

After six days of testimony, a jury deliberated only about three hours before returning its verdict: Leslie Demeniuk is guilty of two counts of first-degree murder in the shooting deaths of her 4-year-old twin sons in 2001.

Prosecutor Noah McKinnon told the jury it was a brutal case of first-degree murder.

During its closing arguments the prosecution retraced what occurred on March 17, 2001, when Demeniuk shot and killed her children.

"It took time and the intent to kill was in her mind when she looked him in the face, put the gun to his forehead and pulled the trigger," McKinnon said.

The defense argued that alcohol mixed with antidepressants led to the shocking incident and that Demeniuk was delusional when she shot the boys.


http://www.local6.com/news/6181238/detail.html

I posted a poll the other day about which one thought more dangerous - guns or alcohol. This kind of story is one of the reasons I posted it. I don't think most people on an avg day would do a lot of the things we see people doing in the news - but when you mix alcohol/drugs into the mix people can get a tad weird (not all of course, duh). Obviously not the only factor in crimes (another duh) but one I think worth discussing (ie the effects of in general).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x157776

[Loonman]

1. When you mix prescription drugs and alcohol

You either pass out or you pass out & die. You don't shoot anybody in the head.

[hedgehog]

4. Alcohol is the enabler drug

Guys drink so they have the excuse for being drunk when they beat their wives and children. This is one reason there was such a push for Prohibition. I don't think any drug should be made illegal, but we have to find a way of addressing situations such as this where drugs are involved in the commission of a crime.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hedgehog]

8. Talk to anyone who has dealt with alcoholics or

battered women.

[MindPilot]

9. Put down the broad brush and step away from the keyboard.

You use a case wherein a WOMAN murdered her CHILDREN to claim that men drink just so they have an excuse to get violent?! :eyes:

Please take your man-bashing over to the feminist forum; it's not appreciated here.

[Nikki Stone1]

11. Feminism is not about "men-bashing". Otherwise, your post is appropriate

Feminism IS about pointing out the very real abuse of women. This was not the right thread for it.

[MindPilot]

12. Why thank you Captain Obvious!!

I did not know that. You mean there are actually women who are abused?! Sometimes even by men? Drunk men? I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED! I'll bet there are even women who are denied reproductive freedoms, and maybe even don't get paid as much as men. In case you hadn't noticed :sarcasm:

Making the statement that "guys drink just so they can have an excuse to beat their wives and children" is roughly the same as if I had said this woman killed her kids because she was a little "hormonal" since it was "that time of the month."

[hedgehog]

14. I was referring to the fact that historically,

it was men who beat their wives and children, not the other way around, and that it wasn't unusual for the man involved to begin by fortifying himself with alcohol before beginning. Of course, there probably are single mothers out there today who use alcohol for the same purpose before beating on their children. I'm just not familiar with those cases. The focus was meant to be on the use of a drug, alcohol, as a means both to enable and justify behavior that would be otherwise unacceptable. As in the next day excuse -"honest honey , it was the the beer talking, not me."

[MindPilot]

15. You're right -- anyone can learn that from watching a single

episode of Cops. Alcohol is involved in most cases of domestic violence. Whether or not one causes the other who knows, but they frequently are found together. (while watching some of those Cops segments, I have to say, yeah, she/he had it coming. Or those two really deserve each other.) Although I suspect that most men who would beat on their wives and children really aren't thinking far enough ahead to plan to have an excuse. Point being--and I think this is true for all drugs--the drug didn't *make* you do it. So I think we are probably more in agreement here than not.

My panties get in a bunch when I see statements that basically say <all men are...whatever>. And the whatever is usually something like violent, rapists, drunks, slobs...etc.

[hedgehog]

16. It's not to say that the person involved plans things out

oh, I want to have a fight with my wife, so I'll down a six pack for an excuse. It's just that there is a an established pattern of first the six pack, then the fight, then the excuse that "I was drunk, so the black eye I gave you doesn't really count." By the same token, what do we do about all the really nice, upright people who get a little buzzed, then kill their friends by taking a curve too fast? We've had about 15 teenagers killed in the area over the past two years because they were drinking before they got into a car.

[MindPilot]

17. If I had answers to questions like that I wouldn't have to work

I'd just sit atop the mountain dispensing wisdom.:think:

Most definitely it's an issue, and again I don't pretend to have an answer. But I do think we as a culture tend to blame the *thing*--i.e. the drug, the gun, the video game--rather than addressing the behaviour.

[parasim]

7. I beg to differ.

I personally know at least two people that when they've mixed their pharmaceuticals with their alcohol, they turn borderline psychotic. Far from passed out or dead.

Luckily, in the incidents I've witnessed, no guns were involved, because there's certainly the possibility they could have been used. Of course, upon sobering up, they're all apologetic and in one case balling their eyes out. These people (one a next door neighbor and one a friend's girlfriend) are just fine with just one of these ingredients in their system. But with the combination? Not good.

[Gormy Cuss]

2. Using the gun was easier than drowning them in the bathtub.

Guns and delusional people are a very bad combination.
It's just a terribly sad story.

[Nikki Stone1]

3. Antidepressants cause some people to become violent as a side effect

In the early days of Prozac, it was noticed that for a small percentage of the depressive population, the anti-depressant could result in violent behavior and/or suicide. This is still the case for certain patients and certain anti-depressants.

There is no way to know if the person in this article was experiencing such side effects, but any drug that affects the brain and behavior runs the risk of such side effects.

[hedgehog]

6. There are four separate issues here:

1. The defendant's state of mind, was she capable of making a sound decision,

2. the effect of the alcohol

3. the effect of the anti-depressant

4. the combination of the alcohol and the anti-depressant.

[Nikki Stone1]

10. Yes, and it needs a professional to figure it out

We should be careful before using this case as an example of anything

[hedgehog]

13. Whose professional, the prosecutor's or the defendant's?

I think there are cases in which mental illness is involved and other cases in which mental illness is used as a cover or an excuse for a crime. The difficulty is sorting out all the different threads and deciding where we draw the line between illness and evil. It doesn't help that anti-depressants seem to be handed out like candy these days. They are incredibly helpful to those who need them, but I am getting tired of reading "the Prozac made me do it" as a defense. I am rather dubious of the "Prozac made me do it" defense as well, especially when alcohol and other drugs are involved.

Cases such as this cloud the fact that some people are genuinely ill and do things they truely would never do if they were in their right minds. As a side issue, they ruin the reputation of a fine class of prescription drugs.