Matt Lauer: Israel, Bush, teaching Arabs not to be pro-American democracy

[HamdenRice]

Matt Lauer actually made a good point this morning during his interview with John McCain -- a virtual miracle for Lauer who normally has his mind switched off. Unfortunately I don't have a transcript.

Lauer read a statement by a Lebanese political leader to the effect that since their democratic upheaval and virtual expulsion of Syria, Lebanon has become the most pro-American Arab government in the middle east. It is also an example of the kind of democracy that Bush claims to want to spread in the region.

Yet Israel is now bombing "the hell out of" Lebanon (he used that expression) and Bush won't lift a finger to stop them. The political leader's conclusion was that Lebanon was being sacrificed on the "alter" of Israeli power. This teaches the Arab world that doing exactly what the US wants and aligning yourself with the US has absolutely no practical benefits and might get you destroyed by Israel. McCain gave a completely non-responsive answer.

I really don't understand the current Israeli actions. They claim this is to get Hezbollah's offices and facilities in Lebanon. But, they are not limiting their bombing to Hezbollah, but are bombing Lebanon's infrastructure. Supposedly this is implicitly to punish Lebanon for tolerating Hezbollah's presence and to incentivize them to expel Hezbollah. But Lebanon has amply demonstrated it does not have the military capacity to defeat Hezbollah's armed faction. It is like beating a crippled man to force him to walk.

Israel is destroying what little credibility the Bush administration's democracy rhetoric had and Bush won't even pick up the phone to complain about it. For the first time I am not only saddened and disappointed by the tragedy of the middle east but stupefied by its illogic.

[shoelace414]

1. Collective punishment is against the Geneva Conventions

[Toots]

3. the Geneva Conventions...what a quaint outdated concept

People even enemies should be treated humainly....soooo outdated in Bush* Amerika...

[spanone]

15. As America pisses on the Geneva Conventions so goes the world.

Thanks Neocons.

[kittenpants]

2. Yeah, I notice these "pro-America" democracies in the ME

don't seem to have much control over their countries. Odd, almost like they're only propped up from the outside...

[Recursion]

11. Lebanon is different

Egypt and SA, sure. Lebanon has a population that was sick of Syria and Israel and Hezbollah controlling everything. They got Israel out in 2000 and Syria out in 2005. I wish Hezbollah had been next, but unfortunately Lebanon, as always, got run over by its neighbors again.

Lebanon isn't being propped up from the outside; it's being knocked down from the outside by Syria, Iran, and Israel.

[otokogi]

4. they are also bombing the army, which makes 0 sense

since the gov was thinking of dispatching them to confront Hezbollah.

israel has a terrible habit of destroying all infrastructure, including security forces then acting surprised that there is no security :eyes:

everything is going according to plan...

[hadrons]

5. sadly, it is ....

[HamdenRice]

9. When the 2nd Intifada began ...

Israel destroyed the Palestinian security services with which it had been cooperating successfully for the prior several years. It is utterly bizarre and counter productive.

Now they are destroying the Lebanese armed forces while expecting it to confront Hezbollah.

[Norquist Nemesis]

16. This is what I hate about going to bed

You wake up only to find out what you missed! LOL!

This is the first I'd heard about them bombing the Lebanese army. I haven't turned the news on yet today after a full weekend of it...needed a break.

But you're right. It doesn't make any sense at all. Israel demands the Lebanese government to crack down and stop Hizbollah while destroying the government's means to do so? WTF?!

[malaise]

6. Israel started this assault by bombing

the Lebanese international airport just rebuilt with $M400 of EC money. Go figure their real intentions.

[Ilsa]

7. There are days when Matt Lauer irritates the hell out of me, but this

wasn't one of them. I don't know if a real political analyst in the basement set that up for him, but it was an excellent point, sure to be ignored by the right wing. He isn't really a dummy; he just plays one on tv most days. I think his father was Jewish, but it doesn't seem to have affected him politically on this issue. I hope Lauer's GE bosses don't find another assignment for him, like on the edge of an Antartic ice floe.

[goclark]

13. He sure was whoring for his promotion before

Maybe this will help him see that the truth will set you vree.


Don't think it will but finally he said something intelligent.

[Ian David]

8. If Bush intervened, it would through his Apocalypse off schedule

US Foreign policy in the Mid-East has nothing to do with creating peace. It has everything to do with making sure that Jews and Muslims continue to beat the crap out of one another and fan the flames of Armageddon.

And while I have defended Israel's actions in the past, I do have to say that their current tactics have gone way over the line. Attacking Hezbollah was necessary, attacking the airport was necessary, too. But they're doing way too much "Shcok-and-awe" crap.

[theHandpuppet]

10. Saw that -- and McCain came off as a RW lunatic

McCain obviously hates the Russians and it surely seemed to me he'd just LOVE to rekindle the Cold War. He thought Bush shouldn't have gone to Russia in order to make a "statement" against Russian policies. And when Lauer brought up Putin's comment about not wanting an Iraqi-style democracy, McCain simply stated even Iraqi democracy surely beats Russian communism.

[HamdenRice]

12. Yes, McCain sounded so bizarre that he seemed drugged out

Complete non-sequiturs. You are right, he said that Iraq's government was better than Soviet communism, as though he was Rip van Winkle and missed the whole Berlin Wall-Yeltsin-break up of the Soviet Union thing. Memo to McCain: The Soviet Union ended a decade and a half ago!

[young_at_heart]

14. US credibility has now finally evaporated

By talking about pigs, and doing nothing, Bush has played his hand and maybe, just maybe, a few "leaders" in this country might wake up to the chaos this man has created!

[mogster]

17. Good point! 'Democracy', 'Freedom', 'Free Speech' - all empty words

when coming from The Bush administration, it should be Theocracy, Anarchy and Propaganda.

I don't understand the Israeli actions either. Last year, a Norwegian professor said 'Norwegians doesn't understand fundamentalism'. This was really adressed to Muslim fundamentalism, and the Evangelicals in the US was also mentioned. The Jewish (Israeli) fundamentalism is less visible, but it's there, excerting a strong group pressure on the Israeli society.
And just as Muslim fundamentalism, it has a lot more going for it than the spoiled US (and Norwegian) Evangelicals, who - by growing up in peaceful democratic societies with access to every luxury available; education, business opportunities and full freedom - has managed to turn into a movement of gluttonous morons without capability for normal human reactions like compassion, respect for other people or sympathy for the poor and weak. I may not understand Muslim or Jewish fundamentalism, but I know that kind of fundamentalism.

I have a Jewish and a Muslim friend. They can't stand each other. I used to beat up and persecute my Jewish friend for 2000 years, then I tried to kill him some 70-odd years ago. That really made me think, so I helped him set up his house - in the middle of the house of my Muslim friend. The reason I was able to do that was that I owned the house of my Muslim friend (it's kinda complicated), and could really do what I wanted - even without asking.
As it turns out, my Jewish friend had lived in the place where my Muslim friend had his house before I started persecuting him, and at that time his house was much bigger. And safer. After I tried to kill him, my Jewish friend got a bit peckish about his personal security, to tell you the truth. How can I blame him?
My Muslim friend and I have agreed that he can own his own house now, but only if I can buy all the goods in his house to affordable prices and keep a tight check on everything he does. It isn't much of a friendship, now when we're speaking about it. I have persecuted him too, and really disrespected every custom and rule in his house. But hey - that's me.
My Muslim friend and my Jewish friend are at each others throat's these days. My Muslim friends stings my Jewish friend in vicious attacks, so that my Jewish friend can't feel safe, and my Jewish friend smashes things in my Muslim friend's house (but fortunately not my goods) and punches his face. It's sad to watch, really, but good for business, at least.
Lately it has gone totally out of hand, though, and I have asked them to leave their differences with me, their Christian friend, but they won't.
How come? :shrug:

[fordnut]

19. does anyone go www.antiwar.com?

I went there to the site and it said that neocons are not
wanting peace and that John Bolton is a neocon and a warmonger
and Bush is going to attack Iran and so on.I hope Bush gets
his. 

[cal04]

18. Interview video at MSNBC

bottom left McCain Interview

http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?f=00&t=s50&g=03d0cd8e-23cb-4149-908f-e2f50f8c6773,51f66282-111c-48d5-8a83-e1fb8b272e72,e7ca4229-89a4-4ee9-94cc-50de440c6551,d13f9ea1-f125-4810-bdd6-99b13c717e41,f87de276-f3f8-4702-a8c2-1d8e77a7170e,f577bb75-9ff0-4eb6-970c-e5dd4ed09ebd,21e84cdd-3a66-4a30-a27d-ccdbc0fc8423,3b83a698-2273-4f67-be64-f803f3c1a2e8