How do Democrats win white, conservative Southern Baptists?

[bluestateguy]

Comments? Discuss.

[LiberalVoice]

Just keep repeating that jesus is on our side over and over.

Thats how the right did it. Doesn't matter if its true. Just keep repeating it.

[lumpy]

34. I agree, emphasize

Jesus' teaching that love and understanding is the answer. Hard to do, but one would think that every minister of God would concentrate on this one important aspect of Jesus' message.

[LiberalVoice]

70. My comments were more directed at the fact...

that most republicans have one component that makes them different from liberals and that is a lack of rational thinking. Repeating things over and over seems to be the only way they understand. Whether it is true or not doesn't seem to matter to them. So long as they keep hearing it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Abandon gays and blacks...

blather on about bombing the Arabs, tax cuts for the rich, crack down on immigration, outlaw abortion...

[itzamirakul]

88. Wouldn't it make more sense to correct the polling records and

secure the voting places where the TOTALLY COMMITTED DEMOCRATIC BLACK VOTE takes place?

Wouldn't it make more sense to include and encurage the African American vote rather than some unnumered, ethereal, mystical white conservative southern baptist vote that just MIGHT swing its vote?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

121. Exactly.

Everytime somebody bashes the South they keep forgetting all of the black people that live there.

[onenote]

2. raffles?

just kidding. The fact is that Democrats will have a hard time winning the votes of "conservatives" of any religion or race.

[MikeNearMcChord]

3. Economic Issues would be one key

They are getting their a** kicked also, by job outsourcing, and price increases also.

[unschooler]

Education and economic development will be the "salvation" of the south.

In economically modern areas such as Raleigh-Durham and Atlanta, the south is getting bluer all the time.

[BOSSHOG]

4. Pass out pamphlets at the welfare office!

[Pirate Smile]

5. I think we would have better luck focusing on white Catholics who

we used to always win but who according to the "exit polls" went just barely for Bush. We lose the born-again crowd by a much wider margin.

[porphyrian]

23. They're all abortion and homosexuality.

Their issues, that is. So, if we dump gays and feminists, we can get them back. Or we could just go a few years without a major disaster and they'll all lapse again.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. How about going after the gays and feminists who don't vote?

Seems a lot better idea to me.

[porphyrian]

31. I was kidding a bit before, but that's my real stand on elections.

I think we've been wasting too much time, money and effort trying to wrangle votes from people who have already made up their minds or, worse, the elusive "undecided" vote that never manifests at the polls. If we could get 5% (that's five percent) of the people who don't usually vote to vote for us, we'd win. Well, barring monkey business at the polls, Supreme Court intervention on electoral procedures, etc.

[Skidmore]

38. You got it.

Get out the vote.

[Pirate Smile]

39. Wow, the broad brushes are out tonight. There is a percentage that

may have that as their big concerns but certainly not most.

Gore won Catholics - 50% to Bush's 47%. Kerry lost Catholics 52% to 47% (according to the exit polls so we know that doesn't mean much).

[readmoreoften]

50. Bush wasn't really running on gay marriage, though, in 2000.

They were concerned, but the RW Media hadn't made it the #1 issue.

[porphyrian]

55. Lighten up, Francis.

Apparently the fragile sensibilities are as well.

[NewJeffCT]

49. We need to emphasize other Catholic values

Like charity & helping the poor and helping those that can't help themselves... social justice, anti death penalty, anti-war, etc.

We've allowed Catholics to be bombarded by messages from the anti-abortion & anti-gay crowd for way too long that it's sunk in that it is a key to Catholicism when it is not.

(PS, I'm not Catholic, I'm actually an atheist, but I remember the days when Catholics were solidly in the Democratic column because of issues like helping the poor & downtrodden...)

how many times does the Bible mention abortion vs how many times does it mention helping the poor? how many times does it insist that a man lying with another man is an abomination, vs how many times does it say that charity is good & helping the sick and weak is good?

[readmoreoften]

51. Yeah, it's a good point.

They should be incensed about what Bush has done to labor as well.

[Pirate Smile]

68. That was what I was thinking about - the social justice issues.

I guess some people thought this was just a joke topic. I thought it could also be a substantive discussion.

[RagingInMiami]

6. Nominate Pat Robertson

[jobycom]

7. By framing our platform in more universal terms that they can accept

We will never convince them to accept abortion and homosexuality. When we try, we lose them, and when we evade the issues, they see through that. So our only method is to frame the issue in ways some of them can accept. We are the party for inclusion. We don't want government involved in private matters. Abortion is a private matter. Sexuality and love are private matters. A government that can tell you your side is right can tell you it's wrong. Stuff like that.

Our best chance isn't to win the SBs, but to make them fear us less, make the whole political climate less confrontational. They may still vote Repub more than Dem, but if they don't think we are out to destroy them, they might choose our qualified candidates over a schmuck like Bush from time to time. And I'm not saying it's our fault they have that idea about us. Just that we have to counter that idea or we get nowhere.

[porphyrian]

25. That's a good start.

Inclusion. They can understand working with people they hate to get a job done. After a while, they might decide some of those people ain't so bad...

Focus on things we have in common, rather than our differences. That helps.

[Dr Fate]

72. By tying spirituality to REAL issues- not war on Christmas bullshit.

We can win SOME Southern Baptists (not the ultra conservative ones) by tying Christianity to REAL issues- like war, healthcare & the economy.

Hillary & Obama's piddly war on Christmas type issues will change no ones minds- those folks will always vote GOP.

Go look at Obama's or Hillary's speeches to Christian groups- and note that they do a poor job of tying spirituality to REAL, important issues- they seem focused on "God in the public square", war on Christmas type nonsense. Little or nothing in those appeals about the war, healthcare, or economics.

We need to point out that on the BIG issues, DEMS are closer to the teachings of Christ than the lying, theiving GOP.

If Obama,Hillary and the others can quit bashing Liberals over the "war on Christmas" and focus on ISSUES we can do this.

[jobycom]

75. I actually don't think I agree with that

I think if we try to make the essence of religion an issue, we aren't going to make any headway. Southern Baptists don't want to be told that their beliefs are wrong, or be told anything at all about their beliefs. They want their beliefs to be protected, or at least not be afraid we are going to attack or even ban their beliefs. I think Clinton and Obama are exactly right in their approach. Getting into a discussion of what Jesus REALLY meant or what spirituality REALLY means is just going to drag religion into the public fray, and that will divide more than unite. I think our best solution is the opposite--put religion outside of the argument, not by squashing it, but by making those of all beliefs comfortable that we aren't out to destroy them.

You and I know full well that there is no war on Christmas, but Republicans have done a splendid job of making Southern Baptists believe it. We won't win that issue. We have to convince the Southern Baptists that the whole debate is beneath them, that we are not a threat. Otherwise, whatever we do or say, the Republicans will continue to make us a threat, using whatever lame argument they can invent. If SBs really understand that we aren't out to change anyone's beliefs, they won't buy the Republican nonsense. They may even begin to understand why we want religion out of government functions--to protect religion as much as government.

This is all, I'm sure you realize, a thinly-disguised veil over the whole conservative racism campaign. As Lee Atwater, the infamous Republican guru of Reagan HW Bush, said, they can't just shout racial epithets anymore, they have to speak code. With Reagan the code was Welfare Queens. By HW's term,it was state's rights. The whole state's rights issue doesn't work anymore, since the Republicans were worse than the Dems, so now it's Godless Liberals. It's the same thing. It's "The liberals are trying to destroy our white culture and make us love black people," though now it's expanded to gays and atheists. It's still the basic Republican mentality of creating an enemy out to destroy you so you'll rally around them for protection. The whole religious element of Middle Eastern terrorism plays into their hands and gives them another non-white face to fear.

We have to remove that whole fear from the equation, not be giving in, but by transcending the whole issue so they have no reason to fear us, and the Repubs can't spin their lies anymore.

Easier said than done, of course. But that's what Obama and Clinton and even Dean have tried to get at.

[itzamirakul]

84. jobycom, your party platform suggestions are among the best I have seen

in quite awhile. We need to work on framing this Democratic platform ourselves, here at DU, because the national party doesn't seem to be doing any work in this area at all. At least we can come up with something on which most of us are willing to stand.

[bryant69]

8. I"m not sure we do

I think in order to do that we'd have to become conservative; and probably play to their racial fears.

I'm not sure exactly where this is coming from; if this is a vield critique of Moderates or of peopel who think we should think about how our actions play; these aren't the sort of poeple we would be worried about. We'd be more worried about constituencies that are actually in play.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Aristus]

9. White, conservative Southern Baptists all used to BE Democrats.

Back when they were allowed to own other human beings. Back when weekend fun consisted of lynchings and church fire-bombings. They all switched to the Republican Party when the Democrats decided not to tolerate that stuff anymore. Republican oppose those actions much less strenuously.

[leeroysphitz]

61. Not ALL conservatives are racists and homophobes.

Just the people they ALL vote for...

[itzamirakul]

86. I do not think it is possible to be a white conservative Republican

without being a 100%, dyed-in-the-wool, card-carrying racist.

The terms "gays and pro-choicers" or anything else they proclaim to be against are just place-holders for "blacks" the unspoken but ever-present elephant in the room.

[kenny blankenship]

10. It's very simple

they would need to establish a multi decade record of voting for and proposing racist legislation, outdoing the Republicans in that regard, if they're serious about it.

they would need to outdo the Republicans in calling for the reversal of separation between church and state, and champion in a conspicuous way,(again outdoing the Republicans), any measures to discriminate against homosexuals they can think of and to shut down women's access to abortion services (while abortion is still within the boundaries of what's legal, which is another thing they need'll to constantly agitate against)

they would need to constantly sound the alarms about some looming foreign threat to our "national heritage and character" coming from either immigration (legal and illegal) or foreign idears like rooshian commonism.

they would need to constantly seek the expansion of police and military powers while simultaneously seeking to lower taxes on the well-off from the lowest rates in the industrialized world to negative numbers.

[napi21]

11. I'm a Yankee who now lives in the South. I dont know that there is

a way to WIN them over, but repeating the corruption of the current Pubs in office, and their ties to Abramoff and lobbyists should make them just stay home.

Most of the So. Baptists I've met really believe Dems are evil pagans, and they will never change that belief. I of course am not helping things because I'm a Catholic. They view ME as an evil idol worshiper too.

The other thing all southern dems have to work for is to get more other Dems to the polls on election day! So many have just become resisgned to the idea that they live in a red state and cn't ever win, they just don't even try!

I can tell you, there's been a little progress here in Ga. I checked the ballot in yesterday's paper, and there aren't ANY Pub incumbants running unopposed this time!!!! I've been complaining about this for years, and the 2004 election was TERRIBLE! Once you got past the very top of the ticket, there were around 10 or more incumbant Pubs with NO OPPOSITION! I was sooo upset, and I can only hope some of my complaining did some good. I don't know if we'll win or not but at least they're trying!

[gratuitous]

12. Speak their language

Instead of simply dismissing them out of hand, learn their language and speak it. Do you really think that Republicans are more compassionate than Democrats? Please! But the GOP does a very good job of couching its repressive agenda in language that appeals to white conservative Southern Baptists.

Now, is it possible to talk about government assistance in terms of redeeming people from the evil of poverty?

Is it possible to talk about universal health care in terms of the sovereign's obligation to his people for their good health and well-being?

Is it possible to talk about old age retirement security in terms of caring for the least of these our brothers and sisters?

Does it matter what the motivations are for a voter when he or she pulls the lever, punches the ballot, or touches the screen for the Democratic candidate? Because if you just want the ideologically pure votes, you're probably going to lose a lot of elections that you could and should win. If you're interested in getting a vote and working with the electorate to bring about the kind of society we envision, one that provides opportunity for advancement but that doesn't equate failure with death, then we need to get over whatever it is (squeamishness, arrogance, intellectual elitism, anti-religious feeling, a well-meant but misguided desire not to offend) that's holding us back from reaching out to a constituency that has been badly abused by the Republicans for the last 50 years. Because piling on sure doesn't seem to have worked very well.

[NewJeffCT]

54. great post & great points

We don't get that message out there enough, though the media certainly does not help us with that, either.

We need to emphasize other important spiritual values besides abortion & homosexuality. To many Fundies, those issues have been played up so much these past several decades, that it drowns out the true message of the Bible.

[itzamirakul]

90. The DEM Party could even hire some of them as "racist speech consultants"

They could teach the newly inclusive, but racially-biased bereft left-leaning Democrats how to speak the actual language of racism. What are the new "code words?"

And then come the lessons of segregation, lynching, wrongful detention, torture, etc...

Doesn't take much except a few lessons on how to willingly become a full-fledged racist Democrat who speaks the language of the southern white conservatives.

[gratuitous]

102. Did I miss something?

Where did racism and appeals to racism come from in my post, to which you are responding? Is it "racist" to talk of ordering society to serve more of its citizens? Is it racist to order society to provide health care? What did I say that makes you think I want "full-fledged racist Democrats" speaking the language of southern white conservatives?

[itzamirakul]

106. I was pointing out the language that most wscons speak and that

they will undoubtedly want to add to our language as they make the change from being "white southern conservatives" to liberal Democratics if we pursue their votes as you advocate.

Of course your post did not mention racism. I introduced the topic after reading your post.

But wscons do bring baggage with them just as we take baggage to them. Racism is part of the baggage. Overt and covert.

Why do you want to fight so hard for the vote of people who do not share Democratic values? People who absolutely hate others for no other reason than skin color? Never mind. Don't bother answering. You have a perfect right to believe whatever you choose. And a perfect right to solicit the votes of those whom you deem valuable.

If they want to join us, they know where we are and what they need to do. I, for one, will spend more time with the totally committed base of the Democratic Party.

[JerseygirlCT]

136. Yup, Matthew 25:35 in a nutshell nt

[rniel]

13. between every other word uttered

use the word JEEEHHEEESSSUUSSS.

[BillZBubb]

14. Only one way.

Drop all support for abortion and Darwinism and push for more religion in the government.

A better question is "Who wants them?" They are bottom of the intellectual barrel.

[moose65]

15. By not making sweeping generalizations

like many of the posts on this board! Believe it or not, there are quite a few of those white Southern Baptists who are Democrats! I think the key is, as someone else pointed out, we have to motivate Democrats in Southern states to get out and vote! I guess that's part of the 50 state strategy, and it's one thing I've never understood, really: Republicans play to their base all the time, and they don't care about "alienating the middle." Democrats try to please everyone, so they come off as wishy-washy. Dems need to speak their minds and stick to it, instead of waffling at every turn. Oh, and here's a little trivia: in my supposedly conservative, bright red state of North Carolina, there are over 600,000 more registered Democrats than Republicans! We need to get a lot of those people to the polls!

[NewJeffCT]

56. another good post

I'm an atheist, but I agree that Democrats need to do a much better job of reaching out to religious people of all persuasions... remind them that the Bible emphasizes helping the poor a lot more than it does stopping abortion.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

69. our legislature (both houses) are (D)-controlled and Our governor is a dem

Hi there, my fellow North Carolinian!

[moose65]

98. Howdy!

Yep, we have a Dem governor and legislature, and 600,000 more Dems than Pubs (as well as over a million independent voters)! Yet we still get painted with the broad RED brush! LOL.
Also, even though both Senators are Repukes, our House delegation is pretty much even... 7 R's and 6 D's. That reminds me.... the other day I was driving home, and had to stop for someone turning left. I looked in my rearview mirror and had the scare of my life: our dear Madame Foxx was right behind me... UGH! I tried to figure out how to run her off the road, but couldn't work it out!

[ncrainbowgrrl]

113. I'm lucky that my rep is David Price- I feel like he at least listens

to constituents.

We have a really strange delegation, don't we.... From Mel Watt (my personal favorite NC legislator) to creeps like Taylor. (But I guess he won't really matter much after november, eh). Coble is a complete ass, but to counterbalance, we have David Price and Brad Miller.

I'm still not sure of what to think of "freedom fries"- I'm glad that he's against the war now, but he's definitely no friend of mine...

[moose65]

114. I remember Price from way back!

I was in college at State when he was first elected, and I remember some of his campaign commercials, all these years later! I always liked him a lot. Unfortunately, my own district has been so gerrymandered that it practically guarantees a Republican will win. My dentist ran against Madame Foxx and he didn't have a chance! Oh well, at least I live in a relatively blue town (Boone) although I am surrounded by wingnuts!

[ncrainbowgrrl]

130. It could have been worse- Foxx is a heck of a lot better than Robinson!!!

I can't believe that nutcase is running again- in a district that he doesn't even LIVE IN. (NC-13) ... But, it's cool- Rep.Brad Miller will eat him for lunch. :popcorn:

[catmandu57]

16. We don't

instead concentrate on the non voter, there are more of them and we have more in common with them, build a more populist platform and they'll come out. As it is no one speaks to them, the non voter is the majority that no one is addressing.

[butterfly77]

17. Tell them blacks will be slaves again and used only to fight their wars...

tell them whites can have first dibs on jobs and all of the benefits in this country, tell them all poor, disabled and minorities will be thrown on the street to die and they will vote for the dems in droves.

[lastknowngood]

18. IF we get those KKK loving Nazi promoting anti woman anti black

anti any thing but white xtian male morons to vote Democratic then we will have left behind anything worth voting for or living for. These people are filled with hate ignorance and pride in their stupidity. And as Ron White says "you can't fix stupid"

[Mass]

19. Why do they need to win them?\nt

[ladjf]

22. Because there are large numbers of them and they need help

. The Bush government has abandoned them on substantive issues, i.e. health, income and human rights.

[Mass]

27. In that case, we will win them by stating what we stand for, not by

changing for them. We need to do that anyway for many other people who do not vote because they do not believe Democrats will change anything for them.

[readmoreoften]

52. agreed /nt

[ladjf]

73. I didn't mean to imply that we should change our values in order

to win their votes. There may be better ways for us to let them know that the Dems are better for them than the Pubs.

[DanCa]

20. Wes Clark could get us red state voters.

He could also beat Rudy and Guiliani easily.

[ladjf]

21. By showing them that the policies and values of the Democratic

Party will do much more to help middle and lower income families.

[itzamirakul]

93. More dangerous is what THEIR values and policies of

bigotry and racism will do TO the Democratic Party. They can ruin the party by bringing in their hatred and intolerance and who wants that?

If Bush has ab abandoned them, then let them say they are sorry and want to join with us in our values and polices.

AND LEAVE RELIGION OUT OF IT TOTALLY!

[moose65]

115. Amen! (to coin a phrase!)

We need to constantly reinforce that it is DEMOCRATS who care about the poor and middle classes. We need to constantly point out the massive tax cuts for the wealthy and the corporate welfare. That message will go a lot further than trying to out-republican the Republicans.

[ladjf]

129. The ironic thing is that the Democratic Party has historically

fought for the interest of middle and lower income people. The Republicans were able to frame a few hot button issues is such a way as to confuse the voters as to who was for whom.

The Dems lost a lot of ground when they pushed through the civil rights legislation in the 60's. There is racism everywhere. But, the most racists elements of the Southern Democrats defected to the Republican Party. The rest is well known history.

Possibly off point is the fact that the same middle and lower income Southern men lost their lives by the hundreds of thousands in the American Civil War, fighting largely for the right of rich plantation owners to own slaves. They were lured into that war with the same style of hot button framing that we currently see from the Republicans. When in reality, the Civil War was a terrible idea, had no chance to succeed for the South and was, in fact, a guarantee of death and poverty for the South for a 100 years.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. How about a more realistic goal?

We aren't going to win over conservative southern talibornagains. It's a waste of energy and resources.

On the other hand, many gays don't vote. Single women don't vote. Poor people don't vote. I have met more than a few peace activists who don't vote. If we work at the far left and just get them registered, we will go along way toward winning elections.

[readmoreoften]

78. Absolutely. OUR BASE doesn't vote. We should be talking about

reaching our base. I would say that more than 50% of my progressive associates don't even vote in the presidential elections. At least. I really think a good portion of the people I know were ROOTING for Kerry, but they didn't bother to go flip the switch, push the Diebold, or hang the chad.

And forget about any other election other than presidential. Other than my friends who are hard-core union activists, I don't know anyone other than my parents who vote in midterm or local elections.

The progressive-left wing-- particularly the young college folks that everyone complains about around here-- do not really vote en masse. Everyone I know doesn't really trust that the Democrats are going to do anything for them. They are ONLY voting "against".

I have no idea why we don't have candidates that are VOCALLY PRO-GAY MARRIAGE, especially if they are pro-civil union. If you are for civil unions, the fundie freaks already hate you. People who prefer that gays have civil unions, not marriages or that everyone has civil unions, etc.-- those people aren't going to swing to the conservative over such a trivality.

We need folks with guts and we need to focus on OUR BASE: pro-choice, labor, healthcare, education, environment. We are wasting our time trying to get rapture freaks.

God forbid they vote Dem. You think they would vote for us without wanting their pound of flesh?

No thanks.

[lumpy]

28. Tell them to concentrate on the

New Testament and Jesus will tell them how to behave and believe.

[Sapere aude]

29. Better question is how do we get white conservative Southern Baptists

to become liberals? I don't see it as any gain if we have to change to get conservative red necks to like us. It's them that need the changing.

[yurbud]

30. tell them the republicans are assholes trying to steal their shit and

right now they are being played.

Democrats think talking tough means aping the GOP's position, but it doesn't. It means telling the truth in plain terms unapologetically.

"Your son lost his legs so Chevron and Halliburton could increase their profits," and then shut up and never, never APOLOGIZE if you told the truth.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

32. Us - win over white, conservative Southern Baptists

We'd have to abandon our principals and become something that the majority of Democrats wouldn't recognize as belonging to our party. I feel there are too many core differences between that particular demographic as a whole and the Democratic Party for us to waste our energy on an effort such as that.

[stepnw1f]

33. Become Racist Homophobes Like Them?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. Talk about bigotry and painting with a broad brush!

Southern whites need someone who will appeal to their best instincts rather than their worst, just like everyone else. Calling them names will guarantee that they NEVER vote Democratic. I wonder how many of the DUers indulging in ignorant name-calling have ever actually been to the South or whether their impressions come from watching reruns of Andy Griffith.

Would any DUer dismiss Boston Irish because so amny of them reacted badly to the desegregation of the Boston public schools in the 1970s?

Having been in Mississippi in the aftermath of Katrina, I say that promising to bring the troops home from Iraq and putting them to work cleaning up the mess that "the Stawm" left would at least bring out the African-American voters (and more poor whites than you might expect), most of whom, I may remind you, are both evangelical Christians AND Democratic.

[stepnw1f]

58. Those voting to keep gays from Marrying

and show a lack of respect for other's civil rights are bigots and homophobes. Sorry, but those voting GOP support homophobia and racism. Just look at their policies and the civil liberties they vote against. So spare me....

Vote GOP, vote Bigotry

Nice try, though.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

59. That accounts for SOME of those who vote Republican, but what

about the vast numbers who don't vote at all?

What about those who are just plain ignorant?

That's 50% of the adult population in most states.

They don't vote to support bigotry, but they also don't think that the Dems have anything to offer them.

Don't condemn. Educate.

Take a lesson from Huey Long, who won the governorship of Louisiana without appealing to racism (even though this was common in the 1930s) simply by proposing easily understood solutions for the state's two largest problems, lack of infrastructure and high level of illiteracy.

[stepnw1f]

60. "How do Democrats win white, conservative Southern Baptists?"

if they do vote, they vote GOP and therefore support bigotry.

Go ahead and teach them.

I don't think I used a broad brush at all. That's what this was about.

[itzamirakul]

99. Lydia, why not spend that energy to juice up a totally committed

Democratic base that has shown its loyalty for over 40 years? If the African American voting community is revved up, there is no need to try to bring in people with totally opposing values, like the conservative southern baptists have. Any blacks that they (southern white conservative baptists) include can be counted on as being like those blacks who "drank the white man's kool-ade" some years ago.

Why not expend a lot of that energy in shoring up and guaranteeing that the black vote is protected? I think THAT is a lot more beneficial to the Democratic Party than trying to seduce some conservatives who will probably NEVER join with us. It is a total waste of time and money.

Why do you feel that we need them so much?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

101. I don't feel that we "need" them, but I don't feel that they're unreachabl

They abandoned the Democrats because of racism forty years ago, but on many levels, the South is now more integrated than the North, and except for a few diehard Klansmen, the original reason for abandoning the Democratic party is no longer a major factor. (Some of those big fundamentalist churches are fully integrated, for example.)

The problem is that since then, the Democrats stopped even fighting for things that help poor whites and blacks equally (the War on Poverty programs being a prime example) and started acting as if it was the party of identity politics.

They gave the impression of saying, "If you're black or Latino or a middle-class woman or sort of countercultural, we have lots for you. The rest of you are just stupid rednecks and Joe Sixpacks." That was how the Republicans have portrayed the Democrats, and the unfortunately, the remarks I see on this thread about "dumbass rednecks" show that there's some truth to that portrayal.

Poor Southern whites may not read DU, but they know when some middle-class/upper-class Democrat is looking down on them and especially isn't talking about anything that's relevant to them, at least not in terms that they can relate to.

So here's the Republicans' secret: Even though they do zip for poor Southern whites economically, they pay lip-service to their cultural issues.

If I were running campaigns in the South, I'd look very carefully at each state to see what it's most pressing needs were, preferably things that would benefit all races and classes, the way Huey Long ran on providing paved roads and free school textbooks.

Sure, the Republicanites would try to swing the agenda over to personal behavior issues, but the Democrats could seize the agenda and ask, "Why are they talking about all that personal stuff when this state is still knee-deep in rubble from Hurricane Katrina? That's because they have NOTHING to offer you. We've got to stop minding our neighbors' business and work together to rebuild this state."

We don't "need" Southern evangelical whites, but they need us. They're not all hard-hearted bigots; many simply have never heard the other side of the story except from caricatures offered by right-wing radio, and they could be reached with the right approach.

It REALLY bothers me that a bunch of smug middle-class Northerners have written off a whole region and class of people. I would NEVER EVER suggest abandoning any core contituency to win Southern whites.

Instead, I would say stop emphasizing behavioral issues (where the Republicans are more in tune with the prevailing attitudes) and bring economic issues to the forefront. And don't let the Republicans change the subject.

[moose65]

117. Yep......

There are never calls on here to abandon the Western states or the Midwest! And while there might be stereotypes of cowboys and farmers, the real name-calling and hatred is always directed at the Southern states. Most Southern states had 40 - 45% of their populations who voted for Kerry. Don't ignore us! Help us to get the message and the VOTE out!

[moose65]

116. I agree with you!

Great post, Lydia. We will never get ANYWHERE if we dwell on what divides us. We need to concentrate on those economic issues and stay out of personal lives!

[slackmaster]

120. Yeah, saying things like that will bring them over for sure

:eyes:

[kineneb]

35. We don't. We get folks who are liberal to actually VOTE!

The regressive, white Southern Baptists are not people we should encourage. They do not want to change, they want to change us- backward, to about 1820, or even 1220. These are the folks who opposed the Civil Rights movement and minority enfranchisement.

I think we need to get more people who agree with us out to the polling place.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. Yep that is a much smarter strategy

[readmoreoften]

45. I agree. We aren't going to win by appealing to THEIR base.

We're neglecting OUR base. The conservatives did not win by trying to win the votes of our base. We will not win by trying to win the votes of their base.

[High Plains]

36. Outbreed them?

[dysfunctional press]

37. we don't need to.

fuck those morans.

[BringEmOn]

40. Tell them the Republicans are gonna take away their NASCAR.

[LoZoccolo]

64. *snort*

See you in November.

[Odin2005]

41. I don't think that the average white Southerner is a conservative.

They are what political scientists call Communitarians, left-wing on economic issues but socially conservative. We also need to remember that there are no red states or blue states, only slightly differnt shades of purple; it is incorrect think that all, or even the majority, of southerners are Freepers and Fundies. All we need to do is to peel off a few of the more reasonable southern Republicans by playing to thier religious sensibilities (by connecting Christ and social justice) and a few southern states will flip. We don't need to give in to Homophobes and anti-Choice people to win a few more southern states, we just need to push economic issues as hard as we can and try to talk about social issues as carefully as possible.

[NewJeffCT]

57. another good post

good points. It does not mean compromising our values to appeal to the best aspects of Christianity like social justice, helping the poor & the weak...

[aaronbees]

77. Great points and a good start...

I live in an area of the South that is like that ... middle of the road Dem on economic issues as they affect everyday people who work at the paper mill or tire plant, etc., but socially conservative to the core (and that's only going to change slowly) -- not surprisingly, this area is also economically depressed and has been for generations: low wages and, traditionally, a lack of a diverse economic base. People here WILL listen to economics; the pocketbook is one way to go, and connecting that to a sense of justice fits squarely with spirituality.

[kevinbgoode]

43. Get involved with a scandal involving money laundering or sex

and then shed a few tears thanking them for helping redeem your soul. . .

They'll vote for you in a heartbeat - just make sure you go to the religiously correct church in town.

[readmoreoften]

44. The same way the Conservatives win Black Liberal Atheists.

We don't. We can win white Baptists, but we can't win the vote of a conservative.

[JerseygirlCT]

47. It's their pocketbooks, their kids' educations and their futures

We need to persuade them that the Democrats are the ones looking out for them. The GOP doesn't give a hoot -- not really.

We need to talk about fair wages for a hard day's work. About good public education. About fiscal responsibility.

If the speaker was good, he/she could take it further. We can reach these people ON the basis of their religion: proper stewardship of the environment, care for the poor, etc. I truly believe the Democrats come closer to the ideals espoused by their faith -- the central ones, not the distractions the GOP has so cleverly used for years.

[leftofthedial]

48. feed 'em to the hogs

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. Run on a Republican platform.

At least that's what the DLC recommends.

[moose65]

122. Well, they don't know s***

That is definitely NOT the way to go! Dems need to play to their base just like the Pubs do. Dems need to stick to their guns and their convictions, and not have their fingers constantly in the wind. That kind of attitude plays well in the South.

[LoZoccolo]

62. I think the first step would be to not make shit up about them.

Usually the person you're talking shit about is the first to know that you're lying.

[Lars39]

63. The next round of Medicare payment cuts will find more

white, conservative Southern Baptists jumping the Republican ship when they can't find a doctor that will see their elderly mothers and grandmothers.

[AtomicKitten]

65. re/acquaint them with the principles of the New Testament

which are in diametric conflict with the current GOP.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

66. The first test in any of this is going to be how do you get DEMOS to the

polls!

[seabeyond]

67. with gays and abortion, they dont n/t

[BlooInBloo]

71. ROFL! It's impossible to get non-southern-conservative white folks...

... to even so much as admit that there's a problem with southern conservative white folks - as an aggregate.

To say nothing of getting souther conservative white folks to admit that there's a problem with themselves - again, as an aggregate.

It's hard to fix a problem that no-one acknowledges exists... Instead, they say, the problem is with those who think, well, think that there's a problem. Genius!

Lotsa luck with getting southern conservative white folks - as an aggregate - to care about anything other than black folks, brown folks, gay folks, and women.

[Moloch]

74. We don't. Fuck 'em.

Let them wallow in their own ignorance.

[Bluebear]

76. By abandoning people of color, gays & bringing Jesus back into govt.

where He belongs.

[maxrandb]

79. Start Screwing our Sisters and Cousins?

[blindpig]

80. By treating them as citizens with real needs

instead of some monolithic beast. Ignore the crazy shit their proported leaders spout and offer them something concrete instead of blather: Universal Health Care. Bread and butter wins elections and Bubba can do cyphers.

[charlyvi]

85. You can't.

Not without changing the Democratic party beyond all recognition. I live in Alabama. Just as an example, I have a cousin in law who has two children on SSI, which brings Medicaid benefits with it. She is trying to work towards a nursing degree and receiving aid to pay her tuition. In short, receiving the benefits of at least three liberal Dem programs that Republicans abhor. When I try to point this out to her, it's like talking to a stone wall. The reason being, she does not see the differences between the two parties as economic; to her, the difference is between good and evil. Of course, she defines evil as abortions, gays and Hillary Clinton. She does not think the Repubs want to take away any social programs, she thinks repubs will do what is best for her and her children because they represent good. Deluded, yes, but the Democratic party has been so demonized down here by these wedge issues, right wing radio, and right wing preachers that nothing short of near starvation would change her mind. Actually, I doubt if starvation would even change her mind, for she would then be going to Jesus. For this, the talking heads on right wing radio, the Karl Roves of this nation, will forever burn in hell.

On edit: Oops. I meant this post to answer the main poster. Sorry.

[itzamirakul]

100. Charlyvi, you are so right! Republican voters don't see the irony

in receiving welfare and foodstamps and other forms of government aid as programs that were started and maintained by Democrats and that are providing their sustenance right now. They really see it as an entitlement as long as THEY are receiving it and as a crime when they see black people receiving it.

I wish southern white conservatives could see the number of white and asian immigrants in the welfare offices in NYC. You hardly see a black face in the crowd and most of those sitting and waiting for help are speaking in various languages - not English. Unfortunately, they do not get to see the fullness of the picture of what actually happens in America.

I'm sure that if you asked any one of these people sitting in these red state welfare offices, why they hate blacks, their first answer would be that they consider blacks to be lazy and to live on welfare. They never, ever see themselves as being a part of the picture. They are above it. In their minds. All because of skin color. What a sad, cruel joke they play upon themselves.

[datasuspect]

81. bring back public lynchings and resegregate

support your local holy roller candidates, speak in tongues, public diplays of piety, help god smite the homosexuals.

[OzarkDem]

82. Tell them medical malpractice reform is more important

than access to affordable health care.

[JVS]

83. Attack the ruling class as a bunch of plutocrats

They may love Jesus a whole bunch, but when they do the bills they know they're getting screwed. Appeal to that.

[charlyvi]

87. Wouldn't matter.

They would just blame themselves for being poor. They've bought the repub mantra hook line and sinker. The preachers down here, or enough of them to make a difference, are now preaching that wealth is a measure of how right you are with the Lord; it's hogwash of course, but you'd be surprised how many people go along with it to justify all the crap they've accumulated. The fact that Jesus said "blessed are the poor" seems to have slipped their mind.

[charlyvi]

89. Dems won't win these people until they walk out of the 19th century.

They do not respect education, they take the Bible as literal truth (or at least the parts they agree with), and anyone who disagrees with the aforementioned is either evil or deluded. This is a wall that cannot be breached; there is no compromise.

[leftyladyfrommo]

91. Why would you want to?

[Squeech]

92. I couldn't agree more

Make sure we actually count the votes of the disenfranchised minorities, and the angry white male will be relegated to the dustbin of history where he belongs.

[leftyladyfrommo]

97. I just can't see where the rw religious would add to the party.

They seem to be the opposite of everything most of us stand for.

I think they really should just have their own party. Then there would be no question about what they stand for.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

108. While their leaders are unreachable, they're simply brainwashed from

having heard only one side of the story, sort of like North Koreans.

They'll listen to whoever tells the most resonant story. Right now the Republicanites are appealing to them on the basis of their cultural prejudices, while the Dems have mostly written them off.

The Dems need to find out which of their real needs are not being met and appeal to them on that basis. But I have little hope that the Beltway-dominated Dem strategists or the self-righteous snobs within the party will ever think of that.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

127. Lydia, are you familiar with the SBC?

My take when I read the OP was that was what they were referring to. The good old Southern Baptist Convention. So rabidly conservative that they caused the moderate Baptist to branch off and form the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship a few years back.

I didn't assume the OP was speaking of all the Baptist who live in the south, which seems to be the belief of many in this thread.

Moderate Baptist we have a shot at, be they of southern origins or not. Conservative Southern Baptist we don't. Period.

[trotsky]

94. Q: How do Republicans win liberal homosexuals or women?

A: They don't. They can't appeal to those groups without abandoning elements of their party platform. It doesn't leave them awake at nights either - they know there are some people to whom the Republican message will never appeal. And they're OK with that. I think it's only Democrats who would fret about why a KKK wizard or Pat Robertson won't vote for them.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

103. Actually, they win women who have bought into the "safety and security"

meme. Remember that article in the Strib about the woman in Minnetonka who voted for Bush because the Russian school siege had made her fear for her children's safety? Yes, she was an idiot, but definitely part of the demographic that "should" support Democrats.

What about the Log Cabin Republicans, for whom the figure at the bottom of their 1040 forms makes them vote for a party whose very platform denies them equal rights?

You can never tell what makes any given individual vote one way or the other.

That's why a broad-based approach emphasizing universal concerns will fly better, even in the South, than one that appeals only to certain segments of the population. I'm NOT advocating giving up gay rights or abortion or racial/sexual equality, just quietly stating one's position and then keeping the debate focused on economic issues, where the Republicanites are vulnerable.

[trotsky]

105. But those are terrible examples.

Repubs brought those groups into the fold by fear/manipulation (the "security mom") and/or appealing to greed (LCRs). They aren't trying to "appeal" to these groups, they're lying and scaring them into thinking the Democrats are worse.

Is that what we want to emulate? Because what you propose, isn't how Repukes are successfully getting people to vote for them.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

109. Yes, they're examples of stupid people voting for stupid reasons, but

they also illustrate the point that you can't predict any individual's vote with 100% certainty from his or her demographic.

If you find the right hook, they'll vote for you.

For example, an unemployed, ailing person who is otherwise in the Republican demographic may be persuaded to vote for a Democrat who promises to work on universal health care (not half-assed, unhelpful "reforms" that only add complexity), rescinding NAFTA, and penalizing corporations that outsource overseas.

It's not guaranteed, but it could happen. People end up brainwashed when they never hear the other side. A significant few may be amenable to changing, but you'll never know if you don't try.

However, if you emphasize gay rights, abortion rights, and gun control in your campaign without letting the voters ever hear about your economic views, then you're guaranteed to go down in flames.f

The Dems need to figure out what needs are not being met or even mentioned, run on those, and deflect any Republican attempts to talk about cultural issues. They won't win all the Southern evangelicals, but they'll win more than you might think, because in the end, hating gays doesn't pay one's medical bills.

[trotsky]

111. Eh?

However, if you emphasize gay rights, abortion rights, and gun control in your campaign without letting the voters ever hear about your economic views, then you're guaranteed to go down in flames.

Point out to me which national Democratic campaign "emphasize(d) gay rights, abortion rights, and gun control." Has there ever been one? Gore and Kerry made it pretty clear where their economic views were, and how Republican policies were hurting the average Joe, yet millions of voters truly didn't care. They still lost.

My point is there are clearly some who will NEVER vote for a Democrat, no matter how bad they have it (because of Republican policies). People are fretting about how we win them over, when it's pointless to try. Focus on the people who don't think that the corporate party OR the corporate-lite party have anything to offer them. Last I saw, more than half our fellow Americans didn't even vote. That's a much larger group than the gun-totin', gay-hatin', pro-life conservative Christian.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

112. We're in agreement there

About half the people in the country think that neither party has anything to offer them, and they may be right if they live in districts where some of the more wishy-washy Dems are running.

[DUHandle]

95. Redistrict

[Ioo]

96. Money, You can but that vote, that is how Bush did it. NT

[blindpig]

104. Stop buying into the Republican created "culture war".

If you play by someone else's rules you're bound to lose. Support working people, something the Dems haven't done for a long time. Universal Health Care. Rescind NAFTA and the oppressive recent bankruptcy law. Get big Pharma under control.

Will the Democratic Party do this? Naw, too deep in the pockets of the same people who control the Repubs. Too many Dems too busy looking down their noses at people they consider inferior.

It's looking more like a Punch & Judy show every day.

[NoodleyAppendage]

107. Why? Why do we want to be associated with RACIST, BIGOTS, & ANTI-SCIENCE?

To hell with the conservative, white Southern Baptists. They represent everything that modern society and humanity should not be, so courting them will only lower our standards. They are the problem and reaching out to them will DO NOTHING. They are long lost to hatred, bigotry, small-mindededness, and theocratic mumbo-jumbo. Fuck them.

J

[Lydia Leftcoast]

110. And calling them names and dismissing them out of hand instead of

seeing them as total human beings with a few blind spots is SO helpful. :sarcasm:

Don't get dragged into the Republican tactic of dwelling on hot button issues. The Dems should just state their positions on gay rights, abortion, and other cultural issues quietly and firmly, and say, "And now can we give that a rest and talk about something that's really messing up people's lives on a daily basis?"

[NoodleyAppendage]

118. Yeah, racism, theocracy, bigotry, sexism, fascism...are just "blind spots"

Sorry, count me among the liberals/progressives who see these people for what they are...a threat to society and disruptive force in the world. If we do not make a firm stand, we will be run over. Trying to convert these people is a losing proposition.

J

[Lydia Leftcoast]

124. Their leaders are evil; they themselves are just deluded

For the past twenty-five years, the Democrats have offered them nothing substantive (no aid to farmers in danger of losing their farms, no consideration for workers who lose their jobs to overseas outsourcing, no health care, no affordable housing, no united front against the Republicans), and the Republicans have had a free hand in playing to their prejudices.

I would never advocate trying to play nice with the evil manipulators who incite hatred and bigotry.

But it's been so long since anyone appealed to the better instincts of rural and working class whites or talked about their real needs, that you might be surprised what happens if the Dems came up with a unified economic platform that boldly undid the damage done by Reagan and the Bush dynasty and caused visible improvement in everyone's lives.

That's how Roosevelt won them over.

And if you don't believe that they have "better instincts," I suggest going down South to work on hurricane relief.

[moose65]

123. Another great one!

Lydia, in just a few posts on this board, you have hit the nail on the head! Are you running for office, by any chance?? :-)

[moose65]

125. But, you find those people EVERYWHERE

They're not just white Southern Baptists. Are we gonna write off every voter everywhere?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

128. That's true

What about the suburban Minneapolis residents who vote Republican because they're greedheads and because they moved out to Eagan or Maple Grove to avoid dark-skinned people? (Not all racists are in the South by any means!)

What about the Libertarians, many of whom are atheists (at least in Oregon, where I used to live), who vote Republican because they're greedheads?

What about Iowa farmers who vote Republican because the Democrats did nothing to help them when the double whammy of low crop prices and high interest rates drove many of them to bankruptcy?

[NoodleyAppendage]

131. How about just writing off the ones that want to hurt you for being gay?

As one of the most oppressed minorities in America, I would think that you would understand that the latent hatred and ignorance of conservative, fundamentalist, Repukes is a threat to your well being.

Do you honestly believe that you are going to change the opinion of a group of people who believe that their God wishes you dead and that you are an abomination of nature?

J

[moose65]

134. nope

I doubt very much that I'll change anyone's mind about that. However, believe it or not, not ALL Southern Baptists think I'm going to hell. Case in point: one of my best friends married a girl from a very small Baptist church here in the mountains, and she has been nothing but great to both me AND my partner. She's the kind of Baptist that we could peel away, since she doesn't have that base hatred that many of them have. I'm not saying that we're going to 'convert' anyone to our side; but we need to offer an alternative to those who don't subscribe to the hate agenda.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

135. And it's been my experience that happy people don't hate

:-)

Whipping up hatred of gays is classic scapegoating, just as the medieval powers-that-were used to whip up hatred of Jews or start a witch hunt whenever the peasants got restless.

It's no longer cool to be overtly racist, not even in the South, so gay people are the new scapegoats.

[EstimatedProphet]

119. By legalizing lynchings and holding rapture raffles

[Swamp Rat]

126. Offer them free lobotomies

Our time is better spent urging the millions of non-voting people to go out and VOTE!!!

:kick:

[Lindacooks]

132. Well, we can wait until all their homes have been destroyed

by huge hurricanes, tornadoes and wildfires, then ask if perhaps they should start voting for somebody who will try to slow down global warming.

[tommythebug]

133. quote the BIBLE and follow Rove's lies

Act like you're a fundementalist, that hates gays.