IDF says army leveling 1km of territory INSIDE south Lebanon

[Poll_Blind]

From Ha'Aretz:

A senior Israel Defense Forces officer told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Monday that IDF troops had leveled land inside Lebanese territory extending up to one kilometer from Israel's northern frontier.

The objective is to prevent the reestablishment of Hezbollah guerilla posts along Israel's border.

Earlier Monday, Defense Minister Amir Peretz said that Israel intends to create an unmanned buffer zone in south Lebanon, from where Hezbollah has been pounding Israel with rockets for the past six days.

--snip--

"The operation in Lebanon and in the Gaza Strip is becoming more complicated in light of the fact that there are abducted soldiers on two fronts. We must display sophistication, creativity and patience."

  "We must display sophistication, creativity and patience." I see none of those at work here currently.

PB

[bluerum]

1. Since when is creating a wasteland considered creative? nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. When you build settlements on it later.

[MountainLaurel]

8. Ding, ding, ding

I believe we have a winner.

[bluerum]

16. Yes I believe we do! Settlements and military intsallations.

Maybe even a wall or two.

[eyl]

18. How many settlements

were built in southern Lebanon when Israel controlled it between 1982-2000?

[Spazito]

2. A simple question, if I may...

Why does it have to be all land in Lebanon, should it not be an equal amount of land from both Israel and Lebanon if there is to be created a "neutral/no mans' land" buffer zone and, to add to that, should not that buffer zone be determined by either both Lebanon and Israel or neither and, instead, by the UN?

[MadHound]

7. Better question yet, why does it have to be any Lebanese land at all?

What gives Israel the right to storm into a sovereign nation and lay waste to it in order to create a buffer zone? Hell, why don't they lay waste to their own land, and make the buffer zone there?

What's really sad is that this is all just pointless destruction. What difference is 1km going to make to a missle that travels tens or hundreds of kilometers. This is just more mindless destruction and bullying on the part of Israel.

[Spazito]

9. All I was trying to understand was, taking the position that neutral

ground is needed to bring about a ceasefire, why the land had to come solely from Lebanon instead of it being shared by the two countries instead, a shared loss.

In asking my question, my thoughts were on the best way to begin to solve the current crisis. Once that is done, other issues can come into play, should come into play which includes a REAL solution to the Israel/Palestine situation.

[MadHound]

10. Oh I understand

But frankly I fail to see how establishing a neutral zone is going to help matters. If you take any land from Lebanon, a sovereign country, all Israel will be doing is breeding resentment and laying the ground for future violence. If you establish a neutral zone in Israel, you're not really accomplishing anything.

Right now what is needed is diplomacy, somebody of suitable bearing and stature to sit all sides down and hash out the matter. But sadly, we're stuck with Bush, and that dumb motherfucker is going to cheer the violence on, for he sees the fulfillment of all his PNAC dreams coming true with this convienent excuse for invading Syria and Iran.

[Spazito]

14. I totally agree, what is needed is somebody/somebodies who

would be acceptable to ALL sides to sit down with them and, as you say, hash things out. At this point in time, I am having a great deal of difficulty picturing who that might be, so many countries' have spoken out in support of one side or the other, tainting their objectivity, imo.

I was looking at the agreement of "neutral ground", consisting of a shared loss of territory, being the first step to working toward resolving the immediate crisis, with the agreement also including the return of the land to each country once a long-term resolution has been reached. My thoughts were, no question, idealistic in that I want all parties to "practice what they preach" in having said they WANT peace and a solution, not only to the immediate crisis but the situation that exacerbates it, the Israel/Palestine question.

[Igel]

12. Mostly because it's the land that extra-legal

(to use a pointless word) attacks have been launched from, with the acquiescence (forced or voluntary, no matter) of the government sovereign over the territory. Lebanon has an obligation under international law to rein in Hezbollah.

If Lebanon set up the buffer zone, it wouldn't (currently) be able to enforce it; in fact, the very setting up of the buffer zone would, no doubt, and putting words into Siniora's mouth, "Make Hezbollah mad, and then I'd need to change my diaper ... again."

[Spazito]

15. The point I was trying to make, not to succinctly it seems, was...

presupposing all sides do believe a "neutral zone" is necessary in order to begin to resolve the immediate crisis, if Israel and Lebanon both gave up an equal amount of territory, it would be a strong signal that they really do want a resolution.

As it stands, imo, to take the land wholly from one country or the other would only anger the country from which the land has been taken and increased suspicion about the country that has taken the land.

[Scurrilous]

3. This is stupid...

...I read yesterday where Hezbollah is launching their rockets from an area deep(up to 20km) inside Lebanon in order to avoid detection of their launching sites.

This will be as effective as the buffer zone Israel created in Northern Gaza to stop Kassam attacks. IOW...not effective at all.

On edit:

"The Fajr-5 is an upgrade of the Frug-5, a Russian missile used against Israel during the Yom Kippur War. According to the manual, this missile, even though it is unguided, can reach up to 80 kilometers. But one must take into consideration that it is launched from a depth of at least 20 kilometers north of the border.

This is because the noise, along with a trail of smoke it creates during launching can give it away. Lieutenant Colonel Danny Reshef, a former intelligence officer in Lebanon, estimates that this is the reason the missiles that hit Haifa have been in at night. At night, smoke is not seen from far distances. The Fajer-5 is the precursor to missiles of a lower series that were less advanced in terms of range and loading."

[malaise]

5. Stealing more land again n/t

[TomClash]

6. The Israeli DMZ nt

[Igel]

11. All that's missing is the asphalt. n/t

[Poll_Blind]

13. Settlements not entirely out of the question...

From the Kadima Party platform, emphasis mine:

• The Jewish people have a national and historic right to the Land of Israel in its entirety.
• The overall objective – a sovereign Jewish and democratic state that is a secure national home for the Jewish people – is the maintenance of a solid Jewish majority within the State of Israel.
• The balance between allowing Jews to fulfill their historic right to live anywhere in the Land of Israel and maintaining the continued existence of Israel as the national Jewish home necessitates a choice that requires territorial compromise.
• Conceding parts of the Land of Israel is not an ideological concession but a realization of the ideology guaranteeing the existence of the Jewish and democratic state in the Land of Israel.
• Determination of the State of Israel’s permanent borders within a peace agreement will ensure the country’s national and security interests.

[Swede]

17. That will prevent anymore kidnapping of IDF troops.

Good start.

[magellan]

19. I hope the Israelis have a LOT of patience

Seems to me they've been fighting the likes of Hizbollah and Hamas off and on for a long time already, and their sophisticated tactics haven't yet managed to do anything but strengthen radical anti-Israel sentiment in the ME. Why? Because you can't destroy an idea with bombs and bulldozers. Indiscriminately punishing civilians for the actions of your enemy only radicalizes more people against you.

As we've seen in Iraq.

That sort of dead-end thinking is expected of terrorist groups like Hizbollah. What's Israel's reasoning? It hasn't done any good in 60 years, what makes them think it's going to bring peace now?

And now that the US has adopted the same stance, the future of this country vis-à-vis terrorism is heading in the same direction as Israel.

I have no answers, but I don't think it takes genius to see what isn't working.

[originalpckelly]

20. Aren't there people living there? Are they killing people en masse?

Oh, nothing like a bunch of shelling to get back a couple of soldiers. I hope they don't end up killing their own soldiers by bombing this region. That would just suck being killed by you own government.


*Yesterday I saw a very educated man, Fawaz A. Gerges, a proffesor at Sarah Lawrence College just happened to be in Lebanon at the time ON VACATION! Well, anyway, he is someone we can trust, and this fella said Israel was hitting purely civilian neighborhoods. They hit ports - purely civilian.

Tip for Israel: Roadblocks work better than bombings. (Less permanent damage.)