Is the US dragging its feet on evacuations?

[Rose Siding]

Is this NOLA redux? The first article linked indicates that hundreds of Germans and French have been or are being evacuated today -De Villipen is even going to Beirut. Americans are still waiting-

'We have given instruction to our citizens to stay safe first and we will start evacuating them in the coming two days,' (a US) embassy official told dpa by phone.

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/middleeast/article_1181595.php/Governments_step_up_Lebanon_evacuation_plans

Hope they stocked up on duct tape. I find reference to 42 US citizens who've been evac'd so far.

CH-53 Super Stallion helicopters took 21 Americans from the U.S. Embassy compound to a British military base in Cyprus and more flights were taking place Monday, he said. He did not provide details on the latest flights, but Martin reports that 42 Americans have been evacuated by helicopter today.

Three CH-53s are currently involved and more will be made available on Tuesday, he said. There are some 25,000 Americans in Lebanon, and the U.S. Embassy has already advised those who wish to leave that they should prepare their bags, one for each person, weighing no more than 30 pounds, and be ready for announcements on how to leave.

http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5160838&nav=ZolHbyvj

Edited to add this report of the US total being 63: July 17, 2006 7:51 p.m. EST...Already, at least 63 of the possibly 25,000 Americans in Lebanon have been flown to Cyprus aboard two CH-53E Sea Stallion helicopters.

According to Navy Lt. Jereal Dorsey, a spokesman for Task Force 59, based on Cyprus, which is only 120 nautical miles from Lebanon, says 5,000 Americans have requested evacuation, and an estimated 25,000 Americans with dual U.S.-Lebanese citizenship currently live or work in the country.
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7004245133

Contrast with-

Denmark has evacuated 700 of about 2,300 Danish residents in Lebanon via Damascus, and is shuttling about 10 buses a day to the Syrian capital.

Some 1,300 Swedish expatriates have been driven to Syria, most to Aleppo in chartered buses. Nearly 5,000 Swedes are thought to have been living in Lebanon.

Spain has evacuated 126 people, mainly Spaniards, by plane to Madrid. A second operation to fly out more of an estimated 600 Spaniards in Lebanon is reportedly planned.

Italy evacuated 410 people, mostly Italians, by bus to Syria on Saturday. Most have been flown to Cyprus. An Italian warship has also been moved into waters near Beirut, Reuters reports, to help evacuate an estimated 1,000 citizens in Lebanon.

http://travelvideo.tv/news/more.php?id=9238_0_1_0_M

THE 86 Australians who were evacuated by bus out of Lebanon and into Syria have now safely arrived in Jordan, the Federal Government said today.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,19828092-5001028,00.html

Canada is already recognizing its defensive position for taking until the middle of this week-

"The government was scrambling to work out the details as it faced criticism that it should have acted faster instead of mulling over evacuation prospects over the weekend while several other countries went ahead and lined up transportation to remove their citizens from a region caught in a conflict between Hezbollah militants and Israeli military forces."

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=ed81e41f-878b-4612-a75c-82a95e168a39&k=57184

This guy's family's there and the evac plan doesn't seem clear to him-

Jay Cheikhali, Family Trapped in Lebanon:
"I told my boy, 'We're going to get you out.' I need to get him out. I need people to realize this is about a human. You know people are dying there and people are getting killed."
Jay says he's been in constant contact with his family. He says there's no electricity where they are. He's keeping up with the news and giving his wife updates every time she hears an explosion.

Jay Cheikhali, Family Trapped in Lebanon:
"People are dying within 3-4 miles of them. When you hear an airplane bombing something, you don't know if the bomb is going to come on you or somebody else. They're really, really scared."
He has contacted the US embassy and the State Department. They say they're still working on an evacuation plan. For now, there's nothing more he can do.

Jay Cheikhali, Family Trapped in Lebanon:
“I want to see them come back home. That's really what I care about. I want them back home."
Some Americans have been evacuated from Lebanon and US security teams are now on the ground in Beirut to help facilitate more evacuations. No word how long it will take to get Jay's wife and kids back home.

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/national/article.aspx?storyid=35504

Is our government really still so unprepared?

[thepurpose]

1. Don't forget the only ones that can protects us are the ones not saving

the US citizens in Lebanon. Who were the lucky ones who got out with the embassy personnel?

[Rose Siding]

6. I don't know -maybe they were the medical cases

I saw an article about that but didn't read it. There are several I haven't read so I'm not certain those are the only ones that made it out so far, but the thousands gone between the smaller countries is, afaic, reason to start questioning the situation.

[cantstandbush]

38. If the US wan't so hated all over the world, evacuation might be easier.

I did hear that the French evacuated 50 American citizens with their people.

[KittyWampus]

2. Recommended with a sigh. Why are YOU doing journalists' work?

[KittyWampus]

28. kick

[KittyWampus]

51. kick-Cafferty apparently has a poll on this quesiton today.

[Catchawave]

3. OMIGAWD...yes, YES....

I've been feeling no sense of urgency from our government, other than Bush sayin' "Israel has the right to defend itself".

Thanks Rose for your most excellent thread starter....otherwise, I just feel like the MSM is selling ads :shrug: :cry:

[GrantDem]

4. It is hard to believe --->>>

that the Bush administration can't organize an evacuation.

:sarcasm:

[bemildred]

5. Stalling is what they are up to, keep it going as long as possible. nt

[Catchawave]

8. Elections coming up, eh?

Those republican BASTARDS...sorry, not taking it out on you bemildred...I so agree with you....:hug:

[bemildred]

11. Nah, this is show biz, military style.

Have to let run long enough to impress the audience. Need plenty of blood and guts and blown up shit to make the right impression. This is too early to effect the election, unless it were to continue for some time, and that doesn't look like the plan.

[Catchawave]

23. LOL...yep

...and sad, isn't it? :cry:

[Rose Siding]

12. If Americans are killed, who will take the heat?

The govt that didn't facilitate evacs, the govt who's army bombed them, the kidnappers, capitalism, or.........

:think: Howard Dean!

[bemildred]

15. Hiz'bullah, Hamas, Syria, and Iran, of course.

It would be really peachy if they actually did the killing, but it will be their fault regardless. Dean is merely "weak on defense".

[Rose Siding]

7. The ferry chartered by the French can take 1,600 at a time

It was to arrive today (in the first OP link). The cruise ship that Americans are waiting for (to arrive tomorrow) will take 750.

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060717/NEWS/60717011

[thepurpose]

10. How many the French got there? Do you know?

[Rose Siding]

13. Est. 20K -It's in the article

[thepurpose]

17. Thanks.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

9. If you needed an excuse to do some more shocking and

awing.... you'd need to lose a few of your own first.... or am I reading too much into this negligence??

[MADem]

14. Hey, the Shah left WEEKS before the American population in Iran

all got out. Hell, Americans in Iran got to see the Shah leave on TV, and Khomeini arrive on TV. Now there's some shit.

It's only been a few days. Give it time.

First, you have to make lists of who wants to go. They are doing that now, by phone, internet and fax.

Then you have to establish meeting points, provide assistance to those who need it to get to the meeting points, and get transportation from the meeting points to the embarkation site fixed up. You have to make sure your passengers understand weight and baggage limitations, which are EXTREME. Just a carry on, everything else gets abandoned.

You have to make sure it is SAFE to muster people at meeting points. You have to be sure the buses are there to bring them to the city. You need a place to hold them while they are waiting to embark. You need to think about things like food, water and a place to pee and poop for all these folks while they hurry up and wait. That's why a cruise ship IS a good idea--their pre-embark point IS the ship. They can sit in their stateroom and take a crap if they need to.

There's a lot to it. It's not a piece of cake, especially when you have to coordinate VERY CLOSELY with Israel to provide air cover for you, and if you provide your own, you've gotta still coordinate with them so they don't shoot your ass by mistake.... and they are anxiously shooting anything that looks like it has a Katushya welded to the backass end of it; if they don't recognize, they could well shoot first, ask questions later.

[Rose Siding]

18. Other governments are managing it.

[MADem]

20. They are, and so are we--it's one hell of a difference when your

population is only a few hundred and they can be accomodated with a few passes with a STOL aircraft or three.

We still have to figure out who wants to go. Odds are it won't be more than five thousand. And they need time to get their affairs in order, too.

Look, I am one of those people who left Iran on a 141, well after the Shah bailed out. That was a DIFFICULT evacuation.

I know how tough it is to coordinate this sort of thing, especially when you are dealing with very large numbers. We're hearing about what this country and that country are going to do, just as we are hearing about what we are going to do.

I'll bet you anything there will be other nationals trying to cadge on to our cruise ship...that beats the hell out of a cramped ferry or hydrofoil out of there. We had a couple of Brits and other nationals who finagled their way onto the 141s as well.

[Rose Siding]

25. Good! We helped Brits and others way back when.

Yes -5,000 is reported to be the number of US wishing to leave. 5,000 US v 1,300 Swedes. Considering the relative resources of the two nations -and I doubt a quick trip on a ferry or a hydrofoil is much of an issue when you're escaping a war zone- and considering our current posture in the world, this is an area in which I expect our government to excel.

[Vidar]

16. Of course!

[TahitiNut]

19. I wonder how much the cruise line will be charging.

After all, if there's no profit in human misery, why bother? :grr:

[Retrograde]

27. No problem, they're passing on the costs

Hear on the ABC news an hour ago that the US plans to charge people for their evacuations.

I'm hoping the heat is interferring with my ability to understand English, because I always thought one of the responsibilities of the State Department was to provide assistance to Americans abroad in case of things like this.

[Rose Siding]

30. You heard right. Here's a link-

At the State Department, McCormack said the cost of a massive evacuation was beyond U.S. resources. He said evacuated Americans would be asked to pay commercial rates, and if they did not have the money, to promise to pay in the future.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/17/AR2006071700749.html

[blonndee]

31. "beyond U.S. resources."

That is freaking terrifying. Really.

[Rose Siding]

32. Cooper is covering the evac on CNN now

He said that the French took some Americans on the ferry

[blonndee]

33. Go France!

That reminds me of when Canadian workers were among the first, if not the first, to get to some Katrina-ravaged areas.

Thanks for the tip. I'll turn on 360.

[TahitiNut]

35. Well, it's "beyond U.S. resources" if the person's merely some ordinary

... tax-paying U.S. citizen. I'm sure they'd find "U.S. resources" to help some uncomfortable Pioneers and other well-connected folk. It's like the cost to attend a major league sporting event - the poor pay full price and the wealthy get in for free and sit in air-conditioned comfort sipping on comped beverages and noshing on whore's ovaries.

I find it exceedingly strange that we can swap 150,000+ military personnel and all their equipment in and out of Iraq and Afghanistan (and Korea and Germany and ...) and can't seem to find the "resources" to ferry a couple of thousand (at most) civilians to Cyprus or another nearby Mediterranean seaport.

[tblue37]

44. Maybe we could end the war in Iraq a day or two earlier than they have

planned. That ought to save enough money to evacuate everyone, and then some.

[MADem]

45. The assistance is not, nor has it EVER been, FREE

No offense, but those are MY tax dollars, too. If people find themselves in a war zone, either through accident or sheer stupidity, I certainly want our government to help them. However, I draw the line at PAYING THEIR WAY HOME.

They managed to get there by footing the bill themselves, they can foot the bill back home, too. If their company paid their way over, their company can pay their way back.

Charity is fine, but these people are not indigent. Our money would be better spent on ferrying our TROOPS home.

[knitter4democracy]

47. Excuse me?

Have you ever travelled abroad and been in a similar situation? Tickets won't get changed, money gets lost (airlines and all keep it), and we're talking about families with children who were visiting family and thought they'd be safe.

All this happened so quickly. Lebanon usually was okay to visit until last week. I was in Russia when there were some bombings and hostage-takings in Moscow, and my family was worried sick. Luckily, we weren't in Moscow but instead 500 mi. away, but it did make us all wonder how we'd get out of the country if need be. That's just scary, and it's hard to figure.

[MADem]

48. Why yes, I have, EXTENSIVELY, and I've also been involved in NEOs

Look, if you had money to get over there, you should have enough to get back. It is NOT the government's job to babysit idiots who are unprepared. I don't care if you are a nitwit backpacking in Somalia, or a fundie trying to spread the word of the Lawd Jeeeeeeesus in Afghanistan. Or some clown coming off the Holy Land tour with Father Barabas, looking for some Beirut nightlife.

As I said, I DO think the government should use all assets to conduct noncombatant evacuations when warranted. I don't think, though, that I should have to pay for them.

No one is refused if they don't have the cash in their wallet. They can escape now, pay later. And the bill is not excessive.

This isn't a "BUSH" thing. You can hate him for plenty else, but this has ALWAYS been State Department policy, no matter if the prez is a D or R. And I agree with it.

[knitter4democracy]

49. I've travelled, too, and I'm not sure everyone has the money.

Not everyone travels with enough to get back. Many work it off while in country. It's true that they can pay it back later, but that might be too much for a family.

If a family of four has flown but can't fly back, most airlines aren't going to refund that money. That could be well over a thousand dollars of hard-earned money that's lost. Then you tack on another couple thousand for the evac of the family, and that could be just way too much. Not everyone who travels has tons of expendable cash. They might be visiting after having scraped and saved and put some on the credit card only to end up further in the hole.

I don't think they should charge for children. It's not their fault that they're there.

[MADem]

50. We're just going to have to disagree on this one

I think there's a point where PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY does kick in. I am all for helping the sick, the elderly, and the helpless, but if you can afford to vacation in Beirut, you'd better have enough dough to get home. If you take your kids over there and don't plan for contingencies, well, in my mind, you're a BAD parent. Shoulda vacationed at Yosemite, if you couldn't swing the fare. And travel insurance is NOT that expensive, and COVERS shit like this.

And if you don't have the cash on hand at the time of the evac, the government will wait for it. They'll take it out of your tax return, or in payments over time.

People who are on a work visa with a multinational generally have a work agreement with their company that includes transportation to and from the work locale. The company picks up the tab, not the worker.

Anyone "working it off in country" is doing so illegally, unless they have work papers--and try getting those without working under the auspices of a multinational, or knowing someone who knows how to grease palms.

[Retrograde]

54. I kinda agree to a point

People do need to have some responsibility for themselves, and I can see, for example, charging people for the costs of picking them off a mountain they decided to climb of their own free will, or warning them that if they decide to take their vacation in Iraq they're on their own, but I think some accomodation needs to be made for emergencies.

In my ideal world - that's the one where FEMA actually works the way I think it should - the government should step in in an emergency and get its citizens (or all people, if it's in US territory) to a nearby safe place. Then, when the immediate danger to life is over, do things like use its influence with airlines to cut some slack wrt changes in travel plans, provide a central place for friends and relatives to check status, make emergency loans to cover basics like food, clothing, shelter and drugs, provide reliable information, etc. Maybe arrange to put them up at the local embassy for a up to a week while things are sorted out - nothing fancy, floor space and MREs if it comes down to that. Just basic triage.

Again, that's the ideal.

[knitter4democracy]

56. I like that idea. It's fair and not too hard to make happen.

You should work for FEMA--you have good ideas and could probably figure out how to make them happen, as opposed to the others who work there.

[Rose Siding]

29. They will be charged "commercial rates", according to the State Dept

At the State Department, McCormack said the cost of a massive evacuation was beyond U.S. resources. He said evacuated Americans would be asked to pay commercial rates, and if they did not have the money, to promise to pay in the future.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/17/AR2006071700749.html

[TahitiNut]

36. I wonder what the State Department's travel brokerage fees will be.

It'd be VERY interesting to see what the arrangements are. Will everyone get the services such "commercial rates" would otherwise buy? The same food? I rather doubt it.

[Junkdrawer]

21. Not to worry, The SS Lusitania is almost there....n/t

[Rose Siding]

22. According to AP, "Arab-American" orgs are criticizing "slow start"

snip>
Of the estimated 25,000 U.S. citizens in Lebanon, about 15-thousand have registered with the U.S. Embassy. Only a handful of Americans are known to have left so far.

Still, the State Department says it will plan for the evacuation of thousands.

Meanwhile, two Arab-American organizations are criticizing what they say is a slow start to the evacuations. Many of the U.S. citizens in Lebanon are Arab-Americans who are visiting family over the summer.

http://www.abc4.com/news/world/story.aspx?content_id=A49BFD22-F252-4747-AE13-DEED483D7511

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

24. It almost makes one wonder whether they WANT Americans to be killed in

all this, to get us "into" that fighting as well.

[Rose Siding]

26. Nic Robertson interviewed an American woman who got on the French ferry

1,200 were on board. She was hoppin' mad that the US wasn't moving anyone yet.

The AP report noted that many of the US citizens awaiting rescue are Arab Americans.

I'm just saying'.

[Rose Siding]

34. The Italians sent a ship, the French sent the PM. PIX--->

The Italians sent a war ship-




France sent the prime minister-

[fumell]

37. How many need evacuating?

[KeepItReal]

39. Keep it simple folks! They are just figurin out who gets paid for the evac

Remember *EVERYTHING* these clowns (A.K.A. Bush & Co.) do gets one of their podnuh's PAID.

Yeah, the Marines are 120 miles aways and could literally build an air bridge of helos to Cyprus...but that would be easy and not make Bush & Co's backers any free (read TAXPAYER) money.

Think about it.

(edit for typos)

[saracat]

40. Exactly what I was thinking. Katrina redux because once again,

Bush doesn't give a shit. Think anyone seriously believe now he went to war with Iraq to "protect"us? He hates Americans. it is obvious otherwise why would he kill so many of them and let so many die? He has got to be the first president ever to have complete disregard for the people! Hah!

[The Count]

41. Not NOLA. 911. Looking for a casus belli. Setting up for disaster.

Someone wants to make it PERSONAL to Murkans. "It" being whatever their negligence may lead to.

[tuvor]

42. Canada's recognizing nothing. US is doing better in that regard.

I can't find the quote in your link about the Canadian situation, but it sure wasn't spouted by Harper or our Foreign Affairs guy MacKay, and we're getting no action until, vaguely, "the middle of the week" which up until this morning we were told was "in line" with what the Brits and the US is doing.

And just a couple of hours ago I read on DU that the first American evacuees are heading out of Lebanon.

If the US is dragging its feet, we're still wondering what the hell's going on.

[DeepModem Mom]

43. Thanks for this, Rose. nt

[knitter4democracy]

46. I heard one of the mothers yesterday on NPR.

I got tears in my eyes when I heard that she's in a basement with her husband and two young children (my kids' ages or a bit younger) and can't figure out how to get to the evac point to get to Cyprus. She was in tears and obviously scared to death--they were there on vacation visiting family. They're from Michigan (Dearborn, where my family often stays and where one of our favorite restaurants is) and just trying to get home.

[Swamp Rat]

52. yep

[lies and propaganda]

53. i just hope the ship doesnt get attacked.

it would be all too coincidental if this ship comes under attack from whoever terrorist group.

[leftchick]

55. has anyone mentioned it is israel bombing them?

I saw a few University students commenting on it on CNN before they were cut off.