Mark Crispin Miller: Republicans Plan to Cry Fraud if it's Close - WTF

[autorank]

Clever of them isn't it. Theiy're going to grab the few close races that mght switch a narrow loss back to their majority and cry electoin fraud. They've got it set up but a certain DU attorney has their game figured out so good luck Republicans, gotcha.. Mark Crispin Miller is a genius and has a prophetic streak that has been righ on target.

Mark Crispin Miller: Huffington Post
How To Pre-empt a "November Surprise"

07.17.06
http://tinyurl.com/znmzk

If the GOP should lose the House and/or the Senate on Election Day, they will pick out a handful of the "closest" races--as many as they need to hang on to majority control--and start to scream like hell about ELECTION FRAUD.

That's right: the major perpetrators of such fraud will cast themselves as victims of the very crime that put them where they are, and charge the Democrats with having used the very tactics that the Bush Republicans have now perfected: legal/bureaucratic disenfranchisement, e-voting manipulation, hostile challenges to would-be voters, covert efforts at disinformation, countless ballots thrown away, and so on.

This is what we'll hear non-stop from Rush, O'Reilly, Hannity and Coulter; Hastert, Boehner, Sensenbrenner, Graham and Coburn; even Bush and Cheney and Karl Rove himself.
This, of course, is how the Busheviks routinely operate; and yet I'm basing this prediction not just on their history as war-propagandists, but on the blunt admission of a certain high-placed GOP insider, who recently told Thom Hartmann that this is the party's plan, if they should lose control of either side of Congress.

Snip

In other words, the Bush Republicans will certainly succeed--unless the Democrats, and others to their left, start working to pre-empt that strategy right now. The only way to foil that plan is to define the conflict truthfully and clearly, and to begin to do it now. However low the Bush regime may sink in the opinion polls, the Democrats, and all the rest of us, are simply cooked, if they do not stand up like vertebrates, and speak as patriots, and tell the nation the unpleasant truth: that these BushRepublicans are where they are today because they have committed vast election fraud, in 2000, and in 2002, and in 2004; and that they lately have committed it again in San Diego, and have more planned in Texas, Florida, Ohio, Pennsyvania, California and Virginia, and
wherever else they have the system rigged, whether at the state or county leved. In short, it's time to cut the crap, stop worrying about the epithet "sore losers" (the Republicans would never let that stop them), and trot out all the evidence that the Establishment has thus far largely waved away.

[babylonsister]

1. I surely hope the Dems heed this warning; the

BALLS the repugs have to even consider crying foul after all the debacles of 2000 and 2004.

[leftchick]

4. I am not hopeful

The democrats have not proven to be proactive on election reform.

[autorank]

10. With all due defference to babylonsister, I have some hope...

...it comes from Dean griping about how voting machines suck whereever he shows up. Pure dean, it's not perpared remarks, he jsut mouths off, which is when I like him the best.

He's at the top and has some troops need to be whipped into shape (any volunteers:evilgrin:) pretty quickly.

But RFK's article really put us on the map, those of us who know the score.

There is some hope...

[mom cat]

20. I hope he can be encouraged to put some real money where his mouth is.

Time for a mail in campaign to push him further along?

[Benhurst]

2. Recommended NT

[Initech]

3. This means war.

If the republicans cant stand losing, and they cry foul, this will mean war. I for one, will not stand idly by those evil, scum-sucking hypocritical pricks gut our democracy and continue to gut our freedoms one by one. Fuckers!!!

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. I love it when Repugs cry. They cry even when they're happy

but they cry best when they get a good porking.

Like this coming November.

[mod mom]

6. So can we expect more "Brooks Bros Rioters" again? This is it for the

Dems. It's s#*! or get off the pot time. They need to confront these thugs head on, and if something in their past is stopping them from doing it, then those folk need to step aside and do what is best for the country/world.

Did you see this one?

10,000 EPA SCIENTISTS PROTEST LIBRARY CLOSURES
In an extraordinary letter of protest, representatives for 10,000 U.S. Environmental Protection Agency scientists are asking Congress to stop the Bush administration from closing the agency’s network of technical research libraries. The EPA scientists, representing more than half of the total agency workforce, contend thousands of scientific studies are being put out of reach, hindering emergency preparedness, anti-pollution enforcement and long-term research, according to the letter released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER).

In his proposed budget for FY 2007, President Bush deleted $2 million of support for EPA’s libraries, amounting to 80% of the agency’s total budget for libraries. Without waiting for Congress to act, EPA has begun shuttering libraries, closing access to collections and reassigning staff. The letter notes that “EPA library services are greatly reduced or no longer available to the general public” in agency regional offices serving 19 states.
....
“The Bush administration apparently decided that it was politically easier to close the libraries than to burn the books, although the end result will be the same,” Ruch added, noting that the EPA Administrator brushed aside an earlier request by the scientist unions to bargain about the library shutdowns internally.

In their letter, the EPA scientists cite library closures as “one more example of the Bush administration’s effort to suppress information on environmental and public health-related topics.” At the same time, other outside observers, such as the Chair of EPA’s own Science Advisory Board, are expressing growing concerns over the viability and coherence of EPA’s research program.


If you don't like the facts, hide them so no one can see them...


http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=706

UFB!!!!!! The Dark Ages are around the corner, Bush promises to veto any stem cell research now this. Anyone who supports these medievel thugs now, is beyond hope.

[Efilroft Sul]

59. Let them have their Brooks Brothers Riots.

Find out where the thieves are congregating, then counter them on-site with an overwhelming display of physical force; that is to say, outnumber them. If the Republicans are smart, they'll slink back home in the face of your superior numbers and shouting them down. And if they don't at first, well, ratchet up the pressure x 10. Seriously, the Brooks Brothers types don't go to war, they get others to die for them. You think they'll be able to stand up to a bunch of pissed-off Dems? No way. Not this craven bunch.

If you live in an area where you expect the Republicans will contest the results, start now to gather your forces.

[klook]

7. This is definitely coming,

just as surely as hurricane season follows wildfire season.

[LittleClarkie]

8. No shit, Dick Tracy

Of course they will, Mark. They did it in 2004. Thanks for the reminder and all but it's not like this is a huge revelation.

[SeattleGirl]

9. They did exactly that here in Washington over the very close

gubernatorial race. When THEIR guy was ahead, they said that Dem Christine Gregoire should "gracefully concede." Ms. Gregoire did no such thing; instead, under the laws of the State of Washington, she asked for a recount (there had already been an automatic recount; it was still close, so she asked for another one). Well, the Repukes cried and fussed and screamed and wet their pants, but you can bet that as soon as that recount went Ms. Gregoire's way, THEY went to court - as is also their right under the laws of the State of Washington. They lost, but boy, did they cry "FOUL" when things didn't go their way.

Hypocrites. Hypocrites. Hypocrites. They name is Republican.

[grannylib]

11. It's been their MO all along, and will continue to be. PROJECTION....

others of that which you are most egregiously guilty.
Chimpy and Cheney the Dick...couple of draft-dodging cowards, so they attack those who served and question THEIR patriotism.
Reich-wing fundies who talk the talk but have no CLUE as to how to walk the walk, so they must accuse liberals/progressives of being godless, even though they are the most idolatrous sonsofbitches ever, and blasphemous to boot.
WE HAD BETTER WAKE UP, STAND UP, SPEAK UP, AND NOT STOP FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES!!!!

Holy fucking shit. The DLC and the rest of the Democratic leadership in this country had BETTER GET A FUCKING CLUE.

I know what I'M gonna be doing for the rest of the night...
contacting every Senator/Congressperson/DNC/ leader possible; LTTEs; e-mails to media outlets...

Better get busy.

How about YOU? What are YOU (collectively) gonna do about it?????

[SeattleGirl]

12. Projection is exactly what it is, grannylib

And they have it down to a fine art. Too bad so many people can't see it for what it is. Too bad the Dem "leaders" don't point that out, and pound the Repubs over the head with it. But hey, maybe that would be too freakin' easy, huh?

[grannylib]

16. It makes me weep...WTF is wrong with the Democratic 'leadership' in

this great nation? I really have to question what the hell they are thinking.

I realize that it's preferable to live the values we hold: tolerance, playing by the rules, treating others as we'd like to be treated, but HOLY FUCKING SHIT, these GODLESS REPIGLICAN WHORES ARE DESTROYING OUR COUNTRY AND OUR PLANET!!!

Damn.

And it seems as though the more they do it, the more they get away with it, and I hate feeling this helpless to make it any better...

But I can't sit around and expect anyone else to just up and do it for us, so I'd better get busy.

*sigh*

[SeattleGirl]

17. I'm sick of it too. What in the heck are the Dems so afraid of?

The Republicans are going to call them chickens, and all other kinds of names, regardless of the they do, so the Dems might as well rise up and kick some arse. Couldn't be any worse than what they are doing now, which is essentially nothing.

And I'll get busy wit' ya.

[grannylib]

68. Way to go...good woman!

[fooj]

62. Swiftboating, projection and playing the victim...

Count on it from these treasonous, rat bastards. Always.

[robinlynne]

13. excellent post sir autorank.

The thing is. Let's get to telling this D party loud and clear! They seem to have a bit of trouble hearing.

[autorank]

30. Well thank you baron(ess). You're right, they need a loud reminder

Good news, Dean is kirking out more and more regarding "voting machines" - he goes into the great Dean style rant/gripe saying the things don't work, he was taught to hack on and he could, throw thlem all out. Refined that would be:

"Canada and England have totally above board elections, efficient, and fair - they both use ALL paper ballots which they count in public. What's our problem"

[hopeisaplace]

14. I predicted this. I knew it in my gut. What.A.Joke.

[autorank]

45. Don't you just hate that...

...when you predict something a little out of the box and it starts to emerge. You can no longer dismiss it or say, damn that was really out there, somebody put so meting in my brownie.

I remember seeing * in the 2000 debates and realizing, at the same time, he is a gorilla and a total weirdo AND he's really got a good pitch as a "nice guy" which I knew was 180 degrees off.

If people make enough noise, they'll lhave trouble. The fact that they're thinking of something this wacky now is a great sign of their desperation.

[stepnw1f]

15. F'n Scumbags... they are going down! (nt)

[Nothing Without Hope]

18. K & R - no surprise. They were already doing that on a smaller scale

in the 2004 election. Remember the news coverage and the suits about election fraud by Dems? This was doubtless set up just in case they needed the "everybody does it" distraction - but the supine corporate media and very speedy Kerry concession made it unnecessary for the GOP to push "Dem election fraud" harder than they did. They were ready to go and did do some stories, which of course were obediently picked up by the corporate media echo chamber. We ddin't hear about the true issue of GOP election fraud except by a few brave and lonely souls like Keith Olbermann; what little we heard was these stories of how the powerful, evil Democrats were paying evil black welfare criminals to pad voter registration for the Democrats by registering multiple times. Why, that might have accounted for as much as several hundred unfair Dem votes!!! :sarcasm: Note that they inserted GOP crowd-rousing elements of "black welfare Democrats" as the supposed perpetrators. They were clearly ready to roll with this a s a big defensive/distractive story. Unfortunately I didn't save links to those stories, but I sure remember them and I bet you do too. There was a lot on this at the time - I even remember hearing it endlessly on NPR - but I didn't save threads. Here are three later links related to aspects of this issue; somewhere there needs to be (maybe there already is?) a big, organized collection of these stories of GOP setting up complaints of Dem election fraud so we know their past methods. They will probably use some of them again and it's best to be prepared and have the public prepared too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1962690
thread title (12/2/05): AP: FBI Plants Sham (Democratic) Candidate in W.Va. Race
Primary link & excerpt from archived thread:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=157&sid=134990

FBI Plants Fake Candidate in W.Va. Race

By LAWRENCE MESSINA
Associated Press Writer

CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) - Thomas Esposito's campaign for the Legislature seemed to be following the usual pattern. The longtime Democratic mayor issued press releases, raised money and bought newspaper ads. Signs bearing his name popped up in yards around rural Logan County.

But less than a month before the May 2004 primary election, Esposito dropped out, saying he had to withdraw because of his ailing mother-in-law.

The real reason surfaced only later: The FBI had planted Esposito among the field of candidates to help find evidence of vote-buying in southern West Virginia.

... The chief judge of West Virginia's southern federal court district condoned the tactic Thursday in an election fraud case against Perry French Harvey Jr., the man who allegedly accepted the $2,000.

(snip)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2059121
thread title (1-22-06): WP,pg1: Politics Alleged In (DOJ Civil Rts Div.) Voting Cases (big story)
Primary link & excerpt from archived thread:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/22/AR2006012200984_pf.html

Politics Alleged In Voting Cases: Justice Officials Are Accused of Influence

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, January 23, 2006; Page A01

The Justice Department's voting section, a small and usually obscure unit that enforces the Voting Rights Act and other federal election laws, has been thrust into the center of a growing debate over recent departures and controversial decisions in the Civil Rights Division as a whole.

Many current and former lawyers in the section charge that senior officials have exerted undue political influence in many of the sensitive voting-rights cases the unit handles. Most of the department's major voting-related actions over the past five years have been beneficial to the GOP, they say, including two in Georgia, one in Mississippi and a Texas redistricting plan orchestrated by Rep. Tom DeLay (R) in 2003.

The section also has lost about a third of its three dozen lawyers over the past nine months. Those who remain have been barred from offering recommendations in major voting-rights cases and have little input in the section's decisions on hiring and policy.

"If the Department of Justice and the Civil Rights Division is viewed as political, there is no doubt that credibility is lost," former voting-section chief Joe Rich said at a recent panel discussion in Washington. He added: "The voting section is always subject to political pressure and tension. But I never thought it would come to this."

Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales and his aides dispute such criticism and defend the department's actions in voting cases. "We're not going to politicize decisions within the department," he told reporters last month after The Washington Post had disclosed staff memoranda recommending objections to a Georgia voter-identification plan and to the Texas redistricting....

(snip)

The third link I'll give is from a July 5, 2006 BradBlog story on exactly the kind of thing you're predicting for future elections:

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3031
BLOGGED BY Brad ON 7/5/2006 12:05PM

CLAIM: GOP Likely to Charge E-Vote Fraud This November; DNC Advised to Wake Up! Quickly!

BTCNews' Weldon Berger makes a very astute observation in an article posted Monday (http://www.btcnews.com/btcnews/1409) suggesting "Republicans set to cry 'Foul!' in November elections."

He contends (with a suggested measure of inside skinny) that the GOP will use the evidence and arguments of election integrity advocates, such as yours truly and others, in making their case that Electronic Voting Machine fraud may have occurred in certain close elections this November if needed.

Berger's observations are well supported by both common sense and history of the GOP — who, unlike Dems, have proven themselves more than willing to pull out any and all stops to fight a close election and even go to court to throw out valid votes whenever necessary if that's what they need to do to win. The GOP doesn't have the same fear gene that curses Dems when it comes to standing up and fighting when they feel they've been robbed (or, perhaps more appropriately with the GOP, opportunistically announcing they've been robbed even when they haven't been.)

Berger's column ought to serve as a siren call for the DNC to wake the hell up about what's going on here. Before it's too late. If it isn't already.

(snip - Brad goes on to critique the Berger report - he gives a link - and make recommendations)

Closer to the 2004 election I remember heavy reporting of a story about supposed Democratic vote fraud based on individuals doing on a small scale what the GOP did in an organized way on a massive scale - voter registration fraud. Unfortunately I didn't save those links. I do recall that we were at first excited to hear of a Justice Department probe into election fraud only to find that - of course - it was about this supposed Democratic election fraud. The bushies own the Justice Department and all branches of criminal investigation and prosecution so they are not going to be examining the huge and systematic crimes that got them into power. Why the public fails to see this is beyond me but most in fact still have blind faith in the justice and electoral systems.

Oh yeah, they're definitely tooling up to set up the next election blowing the horn of "Democratic election fraud." And the damned bought-and-paid-for corporate press will follow the lead just as they did before. And the American publlic? Well, most of them are still in denial about the LAST times the election was stolen.

[EFerrari]

23. King Co, WA. Mark knows how these people think and by now,

many of us do as well.

We have to break this down to the places they are most likely to hit and be there first.

[autorank]

46. Hope, I'm book marking this. You are so good at logical combination.

Planting a candidate...condoned...well, that shows what they really think of the election process, it's just another throw away. Sure violate the whole process. There ought to be a law against running for office under false claim.

Thanks so much.

[mod mom]

19. Anyone wish to post a comment over at HuffPo on MCM's article?

Here's the link:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-crispin-miller/how-to-preempt-a-novemb_b_25234.html

[autorank]

31. You've got me trained mod mom....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=441063&mesg_id=441065

[Maven]

21. They will never stop...they're like junkies now.

They say the first time is the hardest. Not that right-wing conservatives have ever fought fairly in this country, I realize, but I feel that now they've crossed a threshold where "win at all costs" is taken literally, and every year, it just gets easier. At this point, they don't even question. Every single election henceforth will be like this, until either a) U.S. democracy is completely over, or b) the Republican Party is dismantled and dissolved.

I'm afraid those are our options at this point.

[autorank]

42. They've got a "Jones" to win...new term for their greed - "wincest"

There is no boundary they won't cross, not one they won't use, nothing they won't do to WIN...gotta have it. Then there is the "Go Directly to Jail, Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200" piece of this.

This guy had it made in the shade until he lost. The best part of being top dog in Italy was avoiding indictment...in Italy, England, and a few other places. He was too cute by half. Now Italian judges have the green light to indict, based on the merits. Oops bye bye Berlusconi.

[bleever]

22. Any way to make sure this bites them back really bad?

Thinking...thinking...

[autorank]

43. Thinking...

Yep.

Come up with criteria to anticipate where the likely districts are that this could happen:

1) relatively close race;
2) some hosiery of "vote fraud" - bogus registrations, few absentee ballots extra, etc., particularly if there was any type of charge or conviction against a Democrat;
3) a Federal judge near by who is a Federalist Society stooge.

There are probably a few more but, there's a formula.

With that information in hand, anticipate this in each of the risk areas, preempt it, and be ready to crush them if they open their mouths. That would include immediately linking the various instances around the country and describing the pattern as...oh...oh...a CONSPIRACY. Ask any DA, Federal Prosecutor...are the major crimes a solo affair, a random event, or a collection of individuals pursuing the same goal with some sort of plan, i.e., a CONSPIRACY. Fun huh...

[bleever]

69. This should be its own thread.

"Preparing for Republican cries of fraud."

Your post is an excellent start.

[autorank]

71. Well thank you Mr. Eye...I'll "thimk" some more (dating myself;)

That is my favorite avatart btw. "Corporate Media" also has it. Hey can you post your rove thread
to this thread right under my post above that you said the kind words about. That's a classic.
:hi:

[bleever]

72. Karl Rove on election night, with Abramoff's former exec. assistant

at his side, helping to make sure everything goes as planned:



Here's the original post about that:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bleever/28

And another, with more info about Susan Ralston, Rove's gal Friday:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bleever/29


Karl's super-incredible internal polling is more accurate than national exit polls! Even more accurate than the actual election results! Fortunately, he can "adjust" the results to fit his polling!

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

24. Kick

Very Important reading!

[Nikki Stone 1]

25. What can the average voter do to fight this? (Namely people like me?)

Thanks

[autorank]

75. See this...

Sorry I didn't get back to our earlier...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1659729&mesg_id=1669347

[Ivan Sputnik]

26. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out

I just hope the Democrats are smart enough to have a thousand hard-ass lawyers ready to go in November.

[autorank]

28. Personal injury types...on commission...

You're right. R's know they're going down but they'll mitigate the margin by swiping a few "surprises." Then the kill shot, they cry fraud fraud fraud...Screw them, I want the nastiest night school grads in Sears suits with a really bad attitude right up their noses. And that's just to start. There should be a chorus of people calling them out on 2000, GA 2002, Stolen Election 2004, Hackett 2005, Special Measures OH, 2005 (a real con job)...and so forth.

Total smack down...non stop. I'm through being in the victim role (in the party sense, not personally).

Good point.

[autorank]

27. Paging LittleClarkie...time to check in, educate me

:shrug:

[autorank]

29. Little Clarkie...this what I said on the other thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1659729&mesg_id=1661017

Just trying to please...He thinks they'll do as much as they can get away with. In this case, they think that they may keep it close. 2004 stuff...they'll call the wins "surprises" but they only have so many of those. Then they'll take on races in specific areas where they can cry foul, and they will. Now, they have a new tool and you heard it here first.

Stewart v. Blackwell in Oh 6th District Federal Court

ACLU wins against the "master of disaster" Blackwell...but, two tings 1) Blackwell is told to put in all touch screens (Diebolds) through out the state and 2) they tie the decision to Bush v Gore which was never supposed to be done (but I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on TV). The rational they use is equal protection. They say, hey, touch screens are better than punch cards, so if you vote w/a punch card, it's a denial of your rights. The possibility is now there for a "loser" in any state with touch screens plus other devices (which this court wrongfully says are all inferior in accuracy) to ask that the election be nullified. They'd have a recent Fed Court decision to rely on, they could say that it was in a case the ACLU won, and so forth. BTW, Blackwell was thrilled to lose and be told to do Diebold, which he had mostly anyway.

So they can cry actual fraud or they can use this lame decision in Federal Court...they probably have a program to find optimum locations by matching up close races, past voting problems, and friendly (Federalist Society) judges.

Sweet huh?

[Atman]

32. Easy schmeazy...switch close races so the DEMS win, then "prove it."

Remember, the republicans OWN THE TECHNOLOGY. They OWN THE VOTING MACHINES. They OWN THE PROGRAMMERS. So all they have to do is get them to rig a few races for a few democrats, then finally scream for "investigations" into e-voting fraud, which will, of course, prove that the democrats cheated because, of course, the republicans set the machines up that way. But since it's all proprietary software and hardware, no one will ever actually be able to check the voting machines. We'll have more kangaroo hearings with people who won't be sworn under oath, and the whole charade takes an ominously dark turn.

There is a bigger part of the equation, too. Like BushCo's successful effort to undermine the credibility of the New York Times, or anyone who disagrees with them, so too are they looking to undermine, once and for all, America's trust in "the system." Specifically, our election system. This would strip the process of all last vestiges of legitimacy, and even fewer voters will turn out next time, and even fewer still will accept the results as valid. And the GOP will blame it all those fraudsters, the democrats, and they'll ignore the Diebold angle and Mark Crispin Miller and John Conyers and everyone else.

And America's fate will be sealed -- as an authoritarian/fascist state.

[Kolesar]

47. Well, if there was an investigation it might uncover the conspiracy

that you describe. So the gops would be taking a dangerous gamble if they demand investigations.

[Atman]

49. No, no, silly. Not an investigation. An "investigation."

You know...like the 9/11 hearings. A show for the cameras. Remember, they'd still be in control. They're not talking about rigging it so that the dems actually pick up enough seats to change the dynamic, just enough to allow them to "win" some contested seats. Then the kangaroos come hopping out to do the "investigation" of the Diebold, et al, wholy-owned subsidiaries of the GOP.

Brilliant!

[Kolesar]

52. It's still a risk

People talk. Stories get out.

[Atman]

53. The 9/11 hearings were a risk.

People don't talk at BushCo. You haven't learned that by now? If "people talked," Bush would have been out on his ass four and a half years ago. Remember, the premise only works if they create "stolen" races in which the dem wins. I am not assuming they'd allow the dems to win back the house and/or senate. It won't happen. They'll just win a couple of key seats, and then the still-GOP-controlled "hearings" into democratic election fraud begin. Do you really think this is so incredible, given everything we know about BushCo's tactics?

[Kolesar]

54. " I have learned a lot by now "

Gotta go. Work to do.

[autorank]

73. Atman, you and TheBoredAvenger both have excellent points.

Call me "silly" (and that would be an improvement over other nick names) but I think that the Republicans have finally pushed things right up to the edge. They now have to resort to thinking about "high wire" strategies like this. Their desperation is showing. Their champion is burping, groping, and foul mouthing his way through an international summit and all of their policies are failing.

Let's assume that they actually implement something like this (and there is no pro active deterrent by the Democrats), what are there advantages. No need to mention them...you did it already. They own 2 of the 3 voting machine companies and 80% of the vote counting, tabulation, (too often neglected but that's where it's at). They also have the majority of CM by the ... but not entirely. The real question is, how restive are the owners who see these nihilists destroying everything. What benefit is there in being an oligarch when the goods are all rotten, the value is 10% of original value?

So they have huge advantages. But TheBored one has a good point. They'd need near total control
and cooperation. There has been some very good reporting on election fraud (i.e., Indiana, Washington state) by local media. This is one area of release. The members of national news media are not totally controlled, look at all the stories that get out. People complain rightly so about no follow up but what if the story getting out is really the sign that there is an internal operation to resist these idiots. Given that, all sorts of things could come out including a story that blows this one out of the water if they try.

We Democrats have a lot of catch up to do in a short time. RFK Jr has our eternal gratitude, imho, by putting it out there. Dean is now complaining about electronic voting regularly. There needs to be much more of this. And there are always the surprises that come up on the internet. There will be more forthcoming there, I can assure you.

So, if we're prepared and if we start counter-seeding the media on this, then we've got a good chance.
I've followed the election fraud news fairly closely over the past year and I've seen the "voter fraud" stories, West Virginia, other places here and there. These are small time and low impact, mostly rural (and * really disappointed in 2004 in the rural vote!). The stories may have a Democrat in some small change cheating or it may be a Republican. That's not a solid foundation.

I think they're desperate and doing anything they can to come up with a way to hold on. They may succeed but then again, look at Mexico. People are fed up there and they are here too. Retaining either side of Capitol Hill with huge polling margins through a stunt like this might be their biggest mistake ever. There would be a fresh group of the newly disenfranchised who might just make Mexico City numbers look small by comparison, in major cities all over the country.

The main hope is that the Democrats become aware. Bill Clinton almost let the cat out of the bag in Arkansas recently, in front of a very large crowd and Hillary was in Ohio shortly after this nailing Blackwell pretty hard. Who knows, maybe the got the memo (you know, the one we all send regularly here on DU;)

If they do succeed, however, we will persevere.

[Kurovski]

33. K&R.(nt)

[autorank]

34. All of a sudden, why am I swept with a feeling of terror...

:crazy:

[Kurovski]

38. 'Cause George says I'm a terra-ist.

And, well, you KNOW!

[Kurovski]

40. autorank, look at what I did to the following fine post,

as of 12 hours ago...pickled like a Pharaoh.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2727802

[autorank]

44. Well, that's because YOU ARE "THE MAN"

Damn, I read that toon when it came out, thought is was clever, that it would get a bunch of votes.

But noooooo, the double whammy...

You could get a lot of cyber cash just going to people and getting paid to not post to their threads;)

Can you do the same magic :evilgrin:by simply Recommending a thread without posting to it. That would
be like telekinesis or something strange...

You're scaring me Kurovski...and that's a good thing.

[lvx35]

35. I question this.

wouldn't claims of fraud lead to legislation being passed that requires paper trails and equal access...And wouldn't this work AGAINST them in the end?

[tomp]

36. things that make you go hmmm.

at first reading i thought, "of course, why should i be surprised at that?" i got duly pissed off (ok, enraged) that they would even consider such a thing.

but then i thought, "this could really backfire."

in a close election, do you think the world's biggest criminals aren't going to try to steal the vote again. they'd much rather "win" it (wink) on the first pass and not have to reclaim it after the fact. and if they do try to steal it and leave any kind of trace of their attempts, would they want to have that election under the microscope? sounds pretty risky to me.

somebody clue me in as to how this scheme would actually work. would republican judges invalidate already counted or certified votes?

btw, i have immense respect for mark crispin miller and do not doubt his veracity in any way.

[tomp]

37. beat me to it, lvx35 nt

[NJCher]

39. sounds like everyone is engaged in fraud, then

Well, if this is indeed their strategy (and based on what we've already seen, I think it is), they're really nuts. What they will be doing is drawing attention to a problem that we've been screaming about for some time. How can this possibly help them?

When both parties are screaming fraud, why would anyone want to keep electronic voting machines?

Something else one might infer from this strategy is that they think the jig is up on machine tampering. If they assume there is no way they can again steal an election using this method, then the next best thing is to scream fraud. Muddy the waters. Everybody's dirty.




Cher

[autorank]

41. They are a victim of their own failures.

Had they been the typical Republican operation, people would have tired of them in 4 years, or 8 at the most and they would have lost Congress. However, they were able to turn their failures into "patriotic" events and also grab hold of a variety of methods of tilting the table for their advantage.

Right after 2004, Rep Ney had a hearing on 2004 Ohio problems. A "non partisan" vote fraud group was created 4-5 days prior to the first hearing consisting of Republican operatives. It was a sham but since that time, they've been using this group to look at "voter fraud"- fake ID's, fake registration, grabbing 20-30 absentee ballots and filling them in. They claimed Milwaukee was the most vote fraud filled city in the US, a claim they couldn't prove even with a highly cooperative Federal prosecutor. They have put the word out there, the Dems do this and that all the time. In point of fact, the number of votes that are "stolen" from vote fraud, are low in number.

"Election fraud," what we talk about, involves tens of thousands to millions of votes. It's the process of stealing anything from a congressional district to an entire state, e.g., Ohio.

The media covers "vote fraud" but when "election fraud" is mentioned, the immediate words that follow are either "conspiracy theory" or "internet conspiracy theory."

So, in their minds, they will take a beating in 2006, nothing will change to ease the public hatred of them. What to do? This is about it.

They can't do full scale election fraud because it's too incredible, the public hates them. They might do some at the margins, though.

They can't revitalize the corpse of the Republican Party with "bold" policies. They are failures.

given the options, they can either take the beating (smart path) or come up with some tenuous plan to stay in office. That's what they've done. I believe Miller and his sourcing on this; this is what some of them, anyway are thinking.

It is stupid ultimately and the "election fraud" story is one that has legs without the corporate media. Polls show 40%, a couple of months ago, think it was stolen. Who knows this month? All without any major media coverage and all BEFORE RFK, Jr's article.

I think that they'll go down to defeat and that they will not be able to pull this off. Their mis assumption is that they'll be dealing the the same Democratic Party as they did before on this issue. Not so. Dean is very hip to this, talks about the no good machines frequently, says you can't trust them, they should go, etc. If they get some real election law attorneys from each state and give them the green lite to just wail on any lies generated, that will stop this dead in the water, maybe even a pre-emptive strike...

When you don't have much, you have few options. If this weak option is raised now, what will happen in a couple of months when it's obvious they're finished.

Quite something to watch.

As far as reform goes, it's easy. Britain and C

[Atman]

51. See this post...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1659729&mesg_id=1661191

It is as much about undermining confidence in the entire system NOW, before the 2008 election, as anything else. If we can be conditioned never to believe the polls or even the elections results, authoritarianism and fascism are just a couple steps away.

[Canuckistanian]

48. Then what are they going to do?

Call for hand-counted ballots? Insist that every provisional ballot is counted?

[autorank]

76. Here you go...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1659729&mesg_id=1669347

:hi:

[The Count]

50. The plan was in place in 2000 as well - how to pressure electors to

vote against popular vote - in case Gore would have got those. And remember all the "Dems were trying to steal the election, but we stopped them"
Thief cry thief worked well for them - and preemptive action also helped.
And I've been reading here for years how Gore's fault was 'to win it too close" (9 million votes uncounted for him), and "next time we need to win by enough that they can't steal it
I am sure there are some today who think it's OK to throw away a number of votes as long as they don't quite steal them all - and if we have lots of them, they'll be somehow...too ashamed to steal that.
MCM and Palast had warned us before the fact - in 2002, 2004 and now - but the party machine prefers the BS that "we'll win when we'll be more like the GOP"

[blm]

65. That's right - the DNC needs to make this an issue NOW - not wait for it

to become another dispute. The candidate CAN'T do it after the fact in any effective way.

It needs to be dealt with as an issue to expose to the public for scrutiny NOW before November.

[progressoid]

55. Well duh. And I hate to say it but they'll probably be able to rally

a lot of troops to the streets too.

[Uncle Joe]

56. This would be in keeping with their modus operandi

attacking the strength of their opponents. They know the Democratic Party has the moral high ground regarding election fraud at least since 2000, especially as more evidence comes out exposing Republican hypocrisy regarding the issue of democracy and counting the votes.

Kicked and reccomended

:kick:

[Minnesota_Lib]

57. The fact that the MSM recently started harping about Sequoia...

..and its Venezuelan ownership while continuing to turn a blind eye toward partisan Republican control of Diebold and ES&S has led me to believe what MCM is now confirming: the seed is being sown within the MSM (and the public mind) that electronic voting machines may be rigged against Republicans in order for the GOP to try to overturn honest Democratic victories with false charges of fraud.

I honestly believe the media coverage of Sequoia is a concerted effort by the GOP/Neo-cons to set the table for more of their election shenanigans.

[warrens]

58. While I normally oppose torture

Doing a Marathon Man on a few of these GOP election officials might turn up some interesting information.

[Kurovski]

60. Kick.(nt)

[Cocoa]

61. there's no question he's right

they will accuse the dems of using illegal immigrants, native americans and african americans to steal the votes. They've done all of that before. They will say the dems stole it with electronic voting machines too. They've already "proved" Hugo Chavez stole his election with Sequoia DREs.

That's why it's so important that our side be credible on the issue.

[Rex]

63. Can already tell you the outcome

Repukes will rig the elections (in vital states) and win and then say, "alright, we didn't have to cry foul over election results which MUST mean they were fair and balanced." When the Dems start to complain, the Pukes will say, "Oh, now wait a minute Dems! WE were the ones crying foul, not you."

This will work, repeat in 2008 and.....lo.....behold.... President Chuck Hagel in 2008! :eyes:

Don't need to be a prophet to see the writing on the wall.

[autorank]

70. Hagel gets real testy if you bring this up. See below...

Old Chuck won his last contest in Nebraska with 85% of the votes. He gets upset when people
bring up his relationsihp, as "The Hill" did a while ago...showed up with lawyers.

People rap the guy as a former RW talk show host. Now he sounds almost "reasonable" at times, gives
the goof ball in chief a hard time. I think he's one of those people who knows the whole nasty story
and just says what he wants to say. He's probably really a moderate but he's a moderate who knows
how to score points with the riches people around, get the dirt, and then go on his way.

He certainly is a big vote getter;)

[EFerrari]

64. kick

[Jack_Dawson]

66. Gotta Hand it to Them...

They do everything the spineless 2004 Dems DID NOT do and STILL DON'T HAVE A CLUE about. Stuff like...election fraud, voting machines, speaking with one voice, etc.

When someone fixes our trainwreck of a party, please wake me up.

:beer:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

78. You got that right! Furthermore if the Repubs do cry "Voting Fraud!" they

will own the issue!

[Kurovski]

67. Kick(nt)

[autorank]

74. Things you can do to raise awareness, start fighting this:

Talk loudly and repeatedly about this, demand our Party does so(and they do get feedback from all those folks who give the funding telemarketers crap).

Raise the issue with your local party. Send the RFK Rolling Stone article (Was the 2004 Election Stolen) around to the Dem mailing list http://tinyurl.com/ogrhq or if you've got some people who are familiar with statistics show them this article

The Unanswered Question: Who Really Won the 2004 Election
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0507/S00238.htm

or better yet have them get this book by Steven Freeman, PhD, it's outstanding!!!

Was the 2004 Presidential Election Stolen? Steven Freeman PhD
http://tinyurl.com/ec6ra

or this book by Mark Crispin Miller, also outstanding

Fooled Again: How the Right Stole the 2004 Election & Why They'll Steal the Next One Too (Unless We Stop Them) Mark Crispin Miller
http://tinyurl.com/gz7uu

(I'd recommend these books to EVERYBODY. They're accessible and a good summary by independent thinkers and researchers allied only with the truth.)

Take a look here, at this section of a longer article (and send the whole article to your state or local attorney for the Democratic party. The short section helps with letters you can write demanding your right to know your vote was counted. It's called a notice letter and can be quite effective since is creeps out the recipient:

"Citizen Action Now" section of following full article
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0604/S00233.htm#5

Cramdown, Stripdown, Lockdown Democracy In The USA*
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0604/S00233.htm
*Print version has very clear display of links.

This last article is a "classic" of sorts because it explains how from the very start of the electronic voting scam, The Help America Vote Act, the intent has been to shove touch screens down the throat of the American people (made mostly by hard core Republican vendors and capable of all sorts of foul stuff).

I've got a major post coming out which will be a position paper that any of you can use any way you like, no copyright restrictions, with your local committee or your state committee. It's fully referenced. Or you can simply take sections out and use use it as support for efforts you already have.

We will prevail

ON EDIT: and use this as a recource!!! www.ElectionFraud.News.com

andn watch how Mexico comes out!!!

[Crazy Guggenheim]

77. That's one thing about the Republicans! They don't roll over!