Equivalence of SAT scores to IQ test scores.

[benburch]

Somebody IMed me asking how one converts from SAT scores to IQ scores as I indicated in an earlier thread.

Well, first, I don't think that IQ or SAT measure much of importance, but there is a rough equivalency between the two that has been established;

This is strictly speaking for pre-1974 SAT tests, but at the time I joined Mensa they were still using it; http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/Pre1974SAT.html

This is for more modern tests; http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/GREIQ.html

And indicates that my IQ ought to be 144 based on my SAT composite of 1400.

But, friends, IQ does not really indicate genius! It indicates how well you take tests and process word games!

[LA lady]

1. What about ACT?

We take ACT in Louisiana. How does a 33 correlate?

[benburch]

5. I don't have that information, sorry.

But in terms of percentile, 33 ought to be above 138 IQ.

[pitohui]

32. it is damn high, esp. pre 1990 before they made it too easy

congrats that is a good score!

back in the old days it was made near impossible to get 34 or higher, which now it happens fairly "routinely" i guess but it's still damn rare -- a 33 is something to be proud of as it's right before it really goes up that exponential slope of being something you're really not going to be able to do unless you're a true genius

hubby is supposed to be at that level but i don't remember all the details any more so won't venture a guess as to actual IQ numbers


in the old days i was allowed to skip finishing high school and go directly to college (no longer allowed in louisiana colleges) and let's just say it was QUITE a bit less than a 33 overall tho i don't remember exactly, i did have a 33 for the science portion which pulled me up considerably -- that year's science questions happened to be heavy in an area of my expertise which allowed to me answer that portion of the test faster and more easily

[dysfunctional press]

56. in 1978, my composite was 33...

i was in the 99th percentile in each category.

it REALLY pissed off a big chunk of the faculty at the lutheran high school i attended, because i was a total stoner and budding atheist.

[MoseyWalker]

34. A perfect score?

I took it when I was 14, and scored a 31. Top 2 percent in the world. whoopee.

33 is basically not possible.

sorry. but if you scored a 33, then you live on planet HooeyPatooty.

[LA lady]

35. No, the numbers have changed.

This is my daughter's score. It goes up to 36 now. I took it in 1969 and made a 27; I thought I was doing well but she beat the pants off me. She is only 15 (she was a Duke scholar and took it in 7th grade, also.)
My Mother is a Test administrator for ETS - NO she didn't give my daughter the test!!

http://www.actstudent.org/faq/answers/highscore.html

[pitohui]

36. not so, the top score is 36 and several people have scored 36

as LA lady says, the numbers have been changed, but even in the 70s the top score was theoretically a 36 it's just that no one back then had ever scored a 36

since then a number of people have scored that high

nonetheless this 33 is exceptional score and i don't doubt the young lady is a genius w. a bright future ahead of her -- even a 33 in just one section of the test is considered v. well and to get 33 overall is definitely impressive!

p.s. to LA lady -- a 27 was a good score, good enough that in those days it was the cut-off point for a student to go directly from high school (as a junior or sophomore) to be admitted to a louisiana state university, without a high school diploma or GED, unfortunately, the program was not well publicized, i only found out abt it because i was a rather fraught high school student and would have dropped out of conventional educational system altogether w.out this option -- some students just do better w.out all the "structure" offered by high school!

[MoseyWalker]

50. Thanks

for the info! Sorry if I sounded grumpy. I'm just a bit old, so it's to be expected now and then.

[Nikki Stone 1]

2. How about a 1510 GRE?

Out of 1600.

[benburch]

3. In which year? nt

[benburch]

7. It it was between 1974 and 1995, that would be 155 IQ. nt

[woo me with science]

16. IQ tests were renormed quite a few times

between 1972 and 1995. A high score in '74 would be significantly lower today.

[benburch]

20. Right.

And that is just one of the issues with it.

[Nikki Stone 1]

22. Ok. But suppose it were in 2005?

?

[benburch]

25. 151 to 155 then. nt

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

4. IQ Is A Very Good Indicator Of Genius, Though It Isn't The Only Factor.

But to dismiss IQ as not being a major contributor to genius is patently absurd. I agree, however, that IQ alone does not complete the genius. A true genius not only needs an IQ in the genius range, but also the creativity and common sense skills to complete the personna. SAT's to me, however, aren't as much of a major contributor to the overall assessment of genius. Though I scored highly on them, it mattered not to me. Much of what is needed to be successful on the SAT's is simply memorization, or what you'd call book smarts. Though some level of IQ is necessary to retain the information needed to score highly, it is mainly just book smart type stuff, which I never considered to be a sign of true intelligence. I think scoring highly on the Math section is worthy of respect, but the vocabulary, grammar and analogy type sections are minimal in determining genius in my opinion.

IQ, however, is a very strong sign of a Genius. They just also have to be creative and have a firm mastery of common sense.

[benburch]

6. Well, I know I am no Genius.

I have met real geniuses, and I'm not one of them. I'm just clever.

[papau]

14. Heck- same scores but not Genius or clever. Oh well :-) n/t

n/t

[tkadmin]

28. Real Geniuses

I used to be one.  Then I started getting old.  Good thing for
me that I still remember how to troubleshoot enterprize-sized
computer environments.  Occasionally I have trouble
remembering that I do not work 8 hours on Sunday.

[Quixote1818]

41. I think IQ tests, are very limited

Some things IQ tests don't really test are lateral thinking or thinking outside the box, common sense, individuality, leadership ability, people skills, creativity, thinking on your feet, music ability, intuitive ability, curiosity, strength of character, sense of humor, story telling ability, determination, open mindedness, ability to empathies, humility, learning from your mistakes, passion etc. etc.

IQ tests are fine for logic, math, puzzles etc. but they don't test most of the things that go to the real depth of a persons soul. They are more school related, memorization, vocabulary, current events etc. Very little emphasis on gut instinct strength and the ability to adapt to the world around you and be creative. IQ tests are great for showing if you might do a job well but they don't show real creative genius or the ability to have vision and the leadership to make that vision a reality. The only way to test those things is to look at the success in someones life and how they excelled beyond the crowd.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

42. "They are more school related, memorization, vocabulary, current events"

Not by a long shot. In fact, memorization, vocabularly and current events have extremely little or anything at all to do with real IQ tests. Furthermore, half of your other descriptions deal with creativity: which if you read my post you'd see I already included. A lot of the others you listed deal with common sense: which if you comprehended my post you'd also see I mentioned. IQ is a very large component of gauging one's genius, as is creativity and common sense. But IQ should not be dismissed as it is extremely telling of one's capability.

And I'm aware that you're bitter towards those with gifted intelligence. You've made that clear in your other threads. Just because you flunked out of second grade (your admission) doesn't mean you should have a lifelong vendetta against those with high IQ's.

[murielm99]

43. I'm surprised that no one here

has mentioned Gardener's Intelligences. Gardener addresses the things that some of the people here see as lacking in the Stanford-Binet test, such as musical intelligence, leadership intelligence, scientific intelligence. No one has mentioned the Miller's Analogy test, either, which is an IQ test. I took that test a few years ago, and found it to be quite a workout.

If you don't like Mensa, fine. Don't join. If you don't like the idea of a gifted group here, then stay away from it. There is so much anger here toward genius and giftedness that I feel like I am in Freeperville.

Mensa is a social organization. I am happy to be a member, and I enjoy the meetings. I get the impression that some of you think that gifted people should apologize for existing.

[Quixote1818]

52. Yes, their are a lot of other IQ tests that are better for testing

the things than regular IQ tests miss. Regular IQ tests are out dated in my opinion.

It seemed to me, most of the criticism toward the "gifted" group was coming from "gifted" people unless they were lying. They just felt uncomfortable boasting about their "gifts".

[Quixote1818]

58. Hey, we are on the same side here

Relax friend, I wasn't arguing with you I was reiterating some of your criticisms of IQ tests but just taking them a step further. Your reaction might be a little bit of a Rorschach test into the way you see the intentions of those who had a disagreement with you in the past. Like it or not we are a lot more alike than we are different. Both of us are smart we just figured it out at different times in our lives but both of us learn differently. In the end we both ended up very like minded people with similar world views and values. I hope we can have some small disagreements and still respect one another and like one another.

It's been a long time since I have taken an IQ test but the only part related to creativity that I could remember was having to draw a picture of a person. I scored 118 on the test with a wide range of results with some in the superior range and some of the more "school related" things being way below average. The test was given to me by the state to help determine my learning disability's as I was trying to get out of my Foreign Language requirement for my degree.

Actually I just found the summary written by the Psychologist:



Test Results:

He is functioning just above the average range of intelligence but with a great deal of variation between various abilities. he has two sub tests below average and three sub tests in the very superior range.

Of the verbal sub tests both of the "most school related" sub tests are his lowest, Vocabulary and Arithmetic. He was still low average on these five sub tests but his original ability was probably near superior. Clearly he has struggled through school with his verbal handicap. Because he had solid family support and his parents are bright and educated, he was able to achieve above the average level. His reading level is end of the 9th grade, which is excellent for someone with his problem.

Bla, Bla, Bla,

Conclusions:

He has a disorder clearly but because of his excellent middle class background with good family support and opportunity his impairment turned out to be mild. Also, he has such superior ability in other areas, that detracts from the clarity of his disability.

Bla, Bla, Bla

The point the psychologist was making was that the even though my original ability was in the superior range in the places I tested low the learning disability hampered my development in these areas throwing off the IQ tests ability to read my intelligence.

I am just not to keen on rating peoples intelligence with tests but how people do after school. If they end up a great inventor or brilliant artist or business person or if they end up multi talented they were very bright regardless of what some academic test says. I just don't get the desire for people to want to categorize themselves in a "group" when in the end the people in that "group" may be very different from one another. Why not find your individuality and be a nonconformist? As Emerson once said:

"Who so would be a man must be a nonconformist"

I like what he said here as well:

"Men grind and grind in the mill of truism, and nothing comes out but what was put in. But the moment they desert the tradition for a spontaneous thought, then poetry, wit, hope, virtue, learning, anecdote, all flower to them all."

IQ tests don't show these kinds of beauty and insight, they are incapable of going that deep.

[Quixote1818]

63. Limitations of IQ Testing

Limitations of IQ Testing

Obviously, cultural knowledge, creativity, wisdom, common sense and social sensitivity are not measured in IQ tests, but they certainly contribute to a person's intelligence.

Experts have numerous theories when it comes to explaining, defining and predicting intelligence. Some claim that intelligence is innate and fixed and can be measured with clearly defined statistical methods. Others claim that experience and environment affect intelligence -- that intelligence is the composite of many different talents and abilities which continue to improve over time. (This has happened with me. My IQ score has gone up dramatically since my early 20's.)

End Cut and Paste

Where I mostly disagree with you is your definition of what it takes to be called "genius." I agree IQ tests can measure some parts of a person's intelligence but to claim you have to score in the top percentage on an IQ test to be a Genius, I can't agree with. Now I don't claim to be a "Genius" not even close. I doubt if we even have 1 "Genius" posting on DU. Then again, I don't really care for labels like "Genius" but if they are going to be used they should be reserved for people who were as brilliant as someone like Mark Twain or Newton or Einstein. In reality many of the most brilliant people through out history had learning disabilities and would have performed poorly on IQ tests at least when they were young.

I decided to take an on line IQ test for whatever they are worth. Even though I scored in the top 5% I still think they are very limited at measuring the complexities of intelligence because my score was much lower when I was younger and was adding more dendrites to my brain. Also, my brain which had learning disabilities prevented my IQ from going up in certain areas because I was not being taught right (the psychologist who tested me observed this as shown in my othe post). Because I use my brain a lot and in so many ways, including for professional photography, writing children's books, sales, mathematics, abstract thinking, creative thinking, political debates, staying up on current events, graphic design, trouble shooting, figuring out complex religious philosophies, drawing and painting, interpersonal communications, personal relations in business etc, etc, etc, my abilities have increased and my IQ score has gone up. Practice makes perfect because if you stimulate part of your brain it builds intellectual muscle in that area by adding dendrites. I believe my IQ has gone up because I have a curious mind and find everything around me fascinating and use my brain to learn about all these things. An IQ tests can't pick up these kinds of subtle, yet extremely important parts of intelligence. We have seen that poor Black kids in Harlem (The Harlem Children's Zone) when taught right, actually perform above the national average. It's possible that many of these kids, had they taken an IQ test before getting a good education would have scored low on an IQ test, however I am willing to bet these same kids now might score at a very high level on an IQ test for their age, because they were taught right and their brains were stimulated in the right way. What this shows is IQ is as much about where you were born as it is natural ability. I think IQ is as almost as much about stimulating the brain, as it is about natural ability. Sure some people bloom early, but some people bloom late and ultimately you end up with the same result. When during your life, you take the IQ test determines a big part of it's results. Then again, if you are "gifted" and don't use your brain it will atrophy and your IQ score will go down. For examply, an old man won't have the same IQ at 90 he had at 35 because his brain power is diminishing. So when do we judge this man's IQ? When he was in fist grade, at age 35 or when he turns 90? He pobably would scored much different on an IQ test at every age.


I am sure you are very intelligent and so am I along with most people on DU but so what? Why do people feel a need to put labels like "genius" or "gifted" on things? The only reason I can think of is ego, and protecting the one thing that you can always fall back on for self esteem. I am sure you have many accomplishments and I would much rather hear about those accomplishments than how you use to be in the "gifted" class in 1st grade, or that you once scored high on an IQ test. In my opinion, working with the poor or other charity work is 100000 times more impressive than claiming to be smart. Those who were criticizing the "gifted" group were mostly "gifted" people who's stomachs were turning over the bloating of ego's. Those people were very comfortable with themselves and didn't feel a need to create an elite group for grown ups who refuse to forget their childhood's.

As I said before, we have a lot more in common than not and we ended up with similar values and views about the world and politiccs. Why should a few "labels" seperate us? I just don't get it.
End

Your IQ Score
How do you relate to other IQ test takers?
IQ Distribution Curve


You scored 135 on Tickle's IQ test. This means that based on your answers, your IQ score is between 128 and 140. Most people's IQs are between 70 and 130. Your score puts you in the top 5% who have taken this test, 68% of people score between 80 and 120. The following chart to your right, shows these percentages and where your IQ score is on that scale.

There's more to intelligence than a single number, a single score or a single label. Tickle uses four distinguishable Intelligence Scales in the Ultimate IQ Test. By analysing your individual scores on those four scales, we are able to look beyond the raw IQ score into how you process information and thereby determine your Intellectual Type.

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Your Intellectual Type

Insightful Linguist
You are gifted with the natural fluency of a writer and the visual and spatial strengths of an artist. Those skills contribute to your creative and expressive mind. Insightful linguists can take complex concepts and articulate them to just about anyone. You have a gift with words and an insight into processes and the way people think.

These talents enable you to explain things clearly to people as you can conceptualise ideas internally and understand patterns on an abstract level.
Insightful linguists can take complex concepts and articulate them to just about anyone. You have a gift with words and insight into processes and the way people think. These talents enable you to explain things clearly to people. Helen Keller is a great example of an Insightful Linguist. Blind, deaf and mute, she was still able to put things together in her mind and to understand complex ideas. She could do that because she was able to conceptualise ideas internally. Though she could not literally see, she had the visual and spatial skills necessary to understand patterns on an abstract level. She learned to read, write and ultimately became a writer on issues of social justice.

You have an uncanny ability to work your way out of sticky situations using your talent with words. Crossword puzzles, debates -- you're particularly well equipped to come out on top since you can read people well.

Like Charles Dickens, your verbal skills go far beyond having a good vocabulary. Dickens' genius was in the artful and descriptive way he crafted sentences. Also Dickensian, is your keen eye for detail and your adeptness for identifying the best way to express an idea based on your given surroundings and circumstances.

Your ability to communicate your vision clearly will take you far. So enjoy being perceptive, and make the most of your abilities as an insightful linguist.

Ideal Jobs For You
Because of the way you process information, these are just some of the many careers in which you could excel:

Publicist
Translator
Graphic designer
Teacher
Broadcaster
Public speaker
Attorney
Politician
Some of Your Greatest Talents
You've got loads of strengths. It wouldn't surprise us if you:

Can clarify complex issues
Can bring new insight to ideas through their fresh perspective
Are good at leading teams
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Next page »
Your Intelligence Scales
Now let's look at the factors that contribute to you being a Insightful Linguist with a 135 IQ score.

Based on the results of your test, Tickle divided your scores into four distinguishable dimensions -- mathematical intelligence, visual-spatial intelligence, linguistic intelligence and logic intelligence.

Here's how each of your intelligence scores break down:
Mathematical Intelligence
Your Mathematical Percentile

You scored in the 90th percentile on the mathematical intelligence scale. This means that you scored higher than 80% - 90% of people who took the test and that 10% - 20% scored higher than you did. The scale above illustrates this visually.

Your mathematical intelligence score represents your combined ability to reason and calculate. You scored relatively high, which means you're probably the one your friends look to when splitting the lunch bill or calculating your waitresses' tip. You may or may not be known as a math whiz, but number crunching might come a little easier to you than it does others.

This is the kind of question that helped to determine your mathematical intelligence score:

A boy is 4 years old and his sister is three times as old as he is. When the boy is 12 years old, how old will his sister be?
Answer: 20
The sister is (3)three times older than her (4) four-year-old brother. Three times 4 is 12, in other words, when he is four, she is 12. Twelve years old is 8 years older than 4 years old, which makes her 8 years older than him. This never changes. Therefore, when he is 12, she is still 8 years older, or 12+8=20.

Flexing Your Math Muscles
Like anything, keeping or improving your math talents requires practice. Here are some everyday mental exercises that could be particularly helpful to you:

Balancing your checkbook
Calculating your monthly budget
Predicting what the change you will receive next time you buy something
Calculating how much to tip in restaurants in your head
Visual-Spatial Intelligence
Your Visual-Spatial Percentile

You scored in the 100th percentile on the visual-spatial intelligence scale. This means that you scored higher than 90% - 100% of people who took the test and that 0% - 10% scored higher than you did. The scale above illustrates this visually.

The visual-spatial component of intelligence measures your ability to extract a visual pattern and from that envision what should come next in a sequence. Your score was relatively high, which could mean that you're the one navigating the map when you're on an outing with friends. You have, in some capacity, an ability to think in pictures. Maybe this strength comes out in subtle ways, like how you play chess or form metaphors.

Here's the type of question that contributed to your visual-spatial intelligence score:

is to as is to
Answer:


The answer lies in recognizing not only the visual sequence of a square and then a line, but in the recognizing the solidity of the line in the first example and the broken quality of the line in the second example.

Vision Quest
Like anything, keeping or improving visual-spatial talents requires some practice. Here are some everyday mental exercises that will be particularly helpful to you:

Playing chess, or video games like Tetris
Studying maps and becoming the navigator on your next trip
Sculpting or photography
Linguistic Intelligence
Your Linguistic Percentile

You scored in the 100th percentile on the linguistic intelligence scale. This means that you scored higher than 90% - 100% of people who took the test and that 0% - 10% scored higher than you did. The scale above illustrates this visually.

Linguistic abilities include reading, writing and communicating with words. Tickle's test measures knowledge of vocabulary, ease in completing word analogies and the ability to think critically about a statement based on its semantic structure. Your score was relatively high, which could mean you know your way around a bookstore and maybe like to bandy about the occasional 25-cent word to impress friends.

Here's the type of question that contributed to your linguistic intelligence scale score:

Inept is the opposite of:
Answer: Skillful
The answer is derived by prior knowledge that "inept" means "unskillful" (Oxford Concise Dictionary).

Word Power
Like anything, keeping or improving linguistic talents requires some practice. Here are some everyday mental exercises that will be particularly helpful to you:

Doing crossword puzzles
Start reading just for fun
Befriending your dictionary
The next time something breaks, try reading the instruction book first
Logical Intelligence
Your Logical Percentile

[Another Bill C.]

8. It depends on the test.

If a test measures your ability to "figure things out," then obviously a person with a high score on that test has the ability to figure things out and, consequently, a higher measure of intelligence.

Unfortunately, a lot of Ms are Kool-aide drinking neocons so I sometimes question the accuracy of some IQ tests.

[benburch]

10. I met some actually dull and slow Ms. nt

[papau]

9. I never joined Mensa as I could not see the benefit - Are you still a

member? Other than the meet and greets, what benefit did you get from Mensa?

It would amusing, when I retire totally next year, if I could find a use for 50 year old SAT scores!

[benburch]

12. No, I joined in 1979 because the woman I was dating was a member...

...I wound up marrying her, which was a mistake, but that was a problem that I rectified in 1986.

Other than the parties (some of which were pretty wild) I don't think I got a thing out of it, and have not been a member since 1985.

[papau]

18. I am up for a wild party only if I can sit and then be home in bed by 8pm!

Guess I'll hold off on that application for Mensa!

[teriyaki jones]

15. I met my 2nd husband at a Mensa

meeting just before I turned 40. So it can be of benefit. Depends on what you're looking for.

(I know you weren't asking me, but I thought I'd chime in anyway)

[FuzzySlippers]

11. You're cruisin' for a lockin', Ben.

:7

[benburch]

13. I am?

Not trying to!

[FuzzySlippers]

17. IQ thread was locked in the Lounge.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5382067

[benburch]

19. Jeeze. Well, I'm not trying to stir up things.

Well, I am trying to provide some actual data here. Not just "Mine is bigger". I don't think that IQ is all that important a thing.

[TheMadMonk]

21. I'd say that there is virtually no useful correlation.

IQ tests measure (as well as it can be measured) raw inteligence.

SAT/HSC/GED/abc scores measure memory and "drive".

A person who applies themselves dilligently can achieve quite respectable exam results with only a moderate IQ score and conversely a lazy genius can (on paper) fail to qualify for the position of bowser jockey.

[benburch]

23. These tables are based on statistical studies.

And say that there *is* an equivalence between the two things.

But again, I think they are measuring things that have very little meaning.

[TheMadMonk]

33. There may be a statistical correlation between the two,

However the correlation is not usefully predictive.

[Nikki Stone 1]

24. Agreed. Standardized tests test testing ability. (Say 3 x fast)

:)

[benburch]

26. Einstein was terrible at mathematics!

Einstein was assigned a graduate student by Princeton to check his math.

Genius has nothing to do with symbol processing skills. It has to do with vision and insight and imagination.

[Nikki Stone 1]

27. Apparently he was better at adultery. :)

But, yeah, there are different kinds of intelligence. And insight in one area is not equivalent to insight in another.

[RagingInMiami]

29. What if I can't remember my SAT scores?

What if I never took the test? I dropped out of school and ended up getting a GED before enrolling in college.

[Swamp Rat]

30. Puedes asociarte a mi club

¡ja ja! :D :smoke:

[Guaranteed]

31. Me

SATI V+M...IQ15SD IQ16SD %ile

1450...... 141.32 144.07 99.706

[NuttyFluffers]

37. spiffy! this means i'm wicked smaht!

supposedly i'm 150+! probably explains why prospective employers say they won't hire me because i'm overqualified, or some other lame excuse. does that mean i get to join the starving artist and undiscovered genius club? meh, whatever... can i go play in the traffic now! :D

[ComerPerro]

38. The two can't be compared.

IQ tests judge memory, processing, logical reasoning, problem solving, etc.

The SAT and ACT ask that you spit back information you have been previously fed.


For example (this was the case with me) imagine you have two students. Both are intelligent, lets even say they have close to the same IQ.

But one has been able to take Calculus, while the other has not had that class yet.


Who do you think will do better on the math section?


How can the student without knowledge of Calculus be expected to correctly answer questions that require working knowledge of Calculus?

[benburch]

44. Read the study.

People much better at statistics than you or I say they can be.

[ComerPerro]

47. I did read the study when I posted. And people are going to use that table

as a way of measuring their IQ .


But its not correct.

[lindisfarne]

39. SAT measures (supposedly) potential to succeed at uni, not IQ. Smart

folks at mensa out to understand there's a difference. The UC required changes to the SAT because its studies showed the SAT scores didn't correlate well with success at uni, either (this was a few years ago; they also changed the weight they gave the SAT in admissions).

[benburch]

45. Did you even bother to read the linked website? nt

[The Anti-Neo Con]

40. Ha, math is what screwed me on the ACT.

I ended up with a 30 overall when I took it back in 1993.

My scores went like this:

Reading Comprhension: 35
Science: 35
Language Arts: 35
Math: 14

[patcox2]

46. Penis size equivalence in metric?

Or, how about, what would my annual income be in Iraqi Dinari?

Its not that I have a big penis, a high IQ, or a huge income and want to show it off, I am just curious about what the equivalences are. Really.

[benburch]

48. I assert that IQ measures nothing of note.

Certainly nothing that translates into any ability to do anything real.

Penis size is similarly though not as totally useless. As a number of my friends have found, it can get you a job making adult movies...

[FujiZ1]

49. I would certainly hope self-glorification is lounge material.

I understand I'm not a moderator, but this type of elitist tripe doesn't represent democratic principles or ideals. It's merely bullshit.

[benburch]

51. Ahem...

You may have not read what I wrote; I think IQ is VALUELESS.

[FujiZ1]

59. I'm not attacking you.

I just don't think GD is the place for this.

[redacted]

53. The SAT is horribly biased toward the upper classes.

I came from a not-at-all upper class family.

I did poorly on the PSAT and GRE verbal, but very well on the ACT. (Did not take the SAT). (Did well on PSAT and GRE math)

I did poorly probably because I didn't know what a Stradivarius was. Also I had undiagnosed ADHD (I am a woman) and I fell asleep in the PSAT and screwed up the bubble form the first time I took the GRE.

Now I started college at 16, I went to Northwestern at 18 on a full scholarship (based on my essay), I am a extremely successful now in a creative field, AND I know my IQ (which is reportedly higher than Ben's).

The SAT when I took it was a crock (Regan era). It certainly did not measure my brain or potential in any way - and thank god the admissions staff at Northwestern actually READ essays and accepted the ACT.

(This in no way reflects negatively on Ben or his post or anyone who did well on these tests).

I just think that there should be a better way. IQ and SATs really just indicates how much you've been exposed to GAMES magazine and whether you know what doubles tennis is :-)

[benburch]

62. I am not sure what class we were, actually.

My family was one that was formerly wealthy, but by the time I was born into it the great stock market crash had paupered my grandfather, and his second fortune (amassed from illegal gambling) had been given away $20 at a time to various Catholic charities by my grandmother. He owned an old roadhouse in the rural western part of Cook County. My parents were divorced when I was in second grade, (my father was an alcoholic and a wife-beater) and my mother struggled with bills because he was a "deadbeat dad." We never wanted for food or clothing, but other things were always in short supply. Usually, I'd say we were firmly middle-class, but our attitude was a strange. We never looked at money as something that mattered except when bill paying time came, and my mother and grandparents were always giving it away to people who needed it. My grandfather probably loaned 100,000 to various people who came into the tavern with sob stories, but he never even wrote down what he loaned to who, and was always surprised when any of it came back to him. I know for fact that he gave several people the money to start their own businesses and that they eventually became wealthy as a result. (And those people paid him back, too.) But we always treated the rich and the poor the same. I had every bit as much respect for Carver J. Leech who was the African American man who came in every morning to clean the tavern as I did for some actually famous people who frequented the place. I've never been impressed by fame or put off by poverty.

So, what class were we?

I don't know.

But I think they raised me right.

[redacted]

54. Hey Ben, also why do they just use the VQ scores. And not logic?

Wasn't there a third logic score on the GRE? Wouldn't that measure IQ better, it's more like an actual IQ test?

[benburch]

60. I don't know!

BTW, Mensa no longer uses SAT as an equivalent to their IQ test.

[ecstatic]

55. 129--according to the table; however, I think that

the SAT is only reflective of how well you were taught in school. Not to mention, a lot of privileged students take advantage of SAT camps from a very early age, while others do not have the means to. From the 8th grade onward I had a very sh!tty public education. There were no SAT camps or prep classes for us. I still managed to do well on the SAT but most of my peers did not, because even if they had the potential to max out the SAT, the quality of our lessons was very bad. Three strikes-- predominantly African American school in South Dekalb County Georgia.

[Spider Jerusalem]

57. Odd:

my SAT score (1490) correlates with my actual tested IQ (153). (Not that that means anything.)

And I'd argue that SOME things measured by IQ tests (such as three-dimensional visual-spatial thinking, abstraction, pattern recognition, etc) are in fact components of what we call 'intelligence'. 'Genius' is a high level of intelligence plus inspiration and perseverance (for instance, if Einstein hadn't thought there was something a bit off about Newton's model of the universe and spent years working out his theories, we'd never have heard of him).

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

61. Pretty close.

Based on my SAT score, my IQ should be 139. When I took an IQ test, it was 141.