We need to pull together to stop these international death cults.

[readmoreoften]

Another thread lead to this link, but I'd like to discuss the idea that a religious book that promotes WAR WITH IRAN has been on Walmart's best seller list. Being out of the loop of the Rapture-Right's literary exploits, this took me by surprise. That means that one in every 600 Americans has bought this book (if we're talking about a North American book release.) If on average every person lends it to one other person (some, I'm sure are being passed around more often than that) then it is one in every 300!

Compound that with FOX NEWS, websites that extol this crap, and attendance at these megachurches. What we have is imminent danger. I don't want to be gloomy and doomy, but I think that the first thing we have to do to *fight the enemy* is to acknowledge that the enemy is real and formidable. By enemy, I don't mean our born-again Uncle Lester or Grandma Emmy Lou. I mean this propaganda system that has hijacked religion.

I am an atheist, but I see a real need to make sure that the Religious Left has a way to step up to the plate. We need some Martin Luther Kings and Jimmy Carters to guide the religious people away from this armageddon lust-- because the only "prophecy" happening here is a self-fulfilling prophecy of destruction for destruction's sake. The Religous Left Needs to stand up to this death cult and I-- an atheist-- will do whatever I can to support them.


"Seated beside Lapin in the ornately gilded Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) studio was Pastor John Hagee, the author of an incendiary new book purporting to show that the Bible predicts a military confrontation with Iran. By then, Hagee’s book, Jerusalem Countdown, had sold nearly 500,000 copies. It had occupied the No. 1 position on the Wal-Mart inspirational best-seller list, showed up on Wal-Mart’s list of top 10 best sellers for seven weeks, and made the USA Today top 50 best-seller list for six weeks."

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:mJigdQ_sY4sJ:www.pr

[demnan]

1. The stupedos who buy this trash in Wal Mart

Will only wake up when it's their son or daughter who is killed over there to to fight Iran/Iraq/Afghanistan.

I can't understand it. Personally I don't understand why Israel has to exist. I understand why Jews have to exist, and I'd rather have them safe here at home. The conflict over there will never be resolved until one or the other religion is wiped out. That's how stupid people are about religion. When the Palestinians elected Hesbollah, it was only a matter of time before the big war would start.

But I think our government is using Israel for it's own agenda.

[Sherman A1]

2. The first question to ask

Is why is anyone shopping at Wally World?

[lvx35]

3. Well said! I REALLY support that sentiment.

As a member of the religious left, I agree. It's really important that we come together to fight the "religious" right, because there is nothing they would love more than to cast religious debate as being between "godless atheism" and their own twisted version of faith...Yet if you look at beliefs of the religious left from Gandhi to MLK to Carter, you will see a common thread; a religious reverence for Truth.* This causes us to admit and accept science as something to enlighten our faith, and also causes us to question whether many of you "atheists" are so "godless", in our definition where God and Truth are somewhat synonymous. I have seen people professing atheism commit the most moral acts, and be honest while "godly" fundies lied to start wars. I personally believe its inappropriate for them to relate themselves to the highest while truth loving atheists do not, but that choice is up to you. Nevertheless, we should embrace the common values we have in acceptance of science and love of truth, because in those we are closer to many of you than those who lie and blaspheme our values to start wars that kill children. Truth IS God! :)


*Gandhi said for instance "Some people say God is truth, but I say Truth is God".

[readmoreoften]

4. Yes, I have learned to realize that I have plenty in common with

people of faith. Just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean that life always boils down to some empirical, quantifiable type of truth. For example, my partner and I love one another with such devotion, that it is a form of truth for me. To care for someone when they are sick, to cherish every part of them, there is something elemental and transcendant about that. God forbid that our love ever be held up to some quantifiable analysis. In fact, sometimes I feel that when science tries to explain my girlfriend and I (we're gay), it's a little absurd. It's like trying to capture a cloud with a fork.

I find is equally silly when religious people say that atheists have no capacity for morals or selflessness, and that any such capacity is borrowed or learned from people of faith. To them I say read Camus' "The Plague" (Actually, I'd say that to anyone.) It's a metaphor for living with fascism, living trapped in a prison community, where you have to rationalize your reason to be alive in the face of an impersonal evil. People try to transcend themselves in all sorts of ways, through religion, through attempts at high art, through trying to control time, through trying to "think positive" and forget about death. But the only people who stay truly human throughout are the people who devote themselves to caring for the plague victims, who devote their lives to educating people about the plague, and who devote their lives to finding a cure. The leader of that faction is not a particularly special man. He is not the narrator. He is one of the people who dies. But his tireless devotion makes life possible. For that reason, he is transcendent.

We need to be that character. We ARE that character on DU. We are fighting the plague. These people are dying of the carriers of the plague, and they are killing other people. We need to educate them. We need to find a cure. I have no idea what that cure is, but I do know that the continual search for the cure is the only answer. It's what makes us human. All that atheist vs. faith stuff is irrelevant. When it comes down to brass tacks, the only thing that matters is what you contribute to the fight.

[lvx35]

5. Wow. great, again.

I totally agree...I wish everybody could hear what you just said, because I think its really important. Especially bringing up Love because that seems to cut to the heart of matters - we all agree we can't observe or quantify the experience, only external manifestations like how it changes our behavior. (just like faith) But the question is, how do we deal with it? Do we through reason out the window, or do we accept reason as well as love and let the one enlighten the other? I think this is where we differ from the religious right. If we see a person we love yet reason tells us they have a problem - maybe substance abuse or something - we accept them as who they are and help them with the problem. The religious right is more inclined to live in denial of the problem, because the fact that they love the person MUST mean they are perfect. We can see it all the time with Bush, who clearly has a problem, yet the Right refuses to see it, because they love him, he must be perfect! It won't stop until the whole thing falls apart.
Its the same with religion. When christians on the religious left hear the universe is billions of year old, it sheds light and opens doors for them to contemplate the story of Adam and Eve as a parable containing spiritual wisdom, while the religious right just denies the science. In the cases of love or religion its the same thing, its about denial vs acceptance. But true love requires we have the humilty to accept what is, whether its a loved one with a problem or universe that is vast and billions of years old. Love means taking it "as it" (as Ani DiFranco said) and I think that's what defines us on the left, our common ground; it's not just love, its love based on an acceptance of reality with all its imperfections. :)