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TIME MAGAZINE: "Has Bush Gone Too Far?"

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:24 PM
Original message
TIME MAGAZINE: "Has Bush Gone Too Far?"
Sunday, Jan. 01, 2006
Has Bush Gone Too Far?
The President's secret directive to let the NSA snoop without warrants sets off a furor
By RICHARD LACAYO

In the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, White House officials were haunted by two questions. Were there other terrorists lying in wait within the U.S.? And, given how freely the 19 hijackers had been able to operate before they acted, how would we know where to find them?

It didn't take long before an aggressive idea emerged from the circle of Administration hawks. Liberalize the rules for domestic spying, they urged. Free the National Security Agency (NSA) to use its powerful listening technology to eavesdrop on terrorist suspects on U.S. soil without having to seek a warrant for every phone number it tracked. But because of a 1978 law that forbids the NSA to conduct no-warrant surveillance inside the U.S., the new policy would require one of two steps. The first was to revise the law. The other was to ignore it.



"We have the remarkable spectacle of a wartime President who, by a series of doubtful legal strategies, has squandered his credibility in the federal courts," says Eugene Fidell, a Washington lawyer who heads the National Institute of Military Justice. "The judges are in as grumpy a mood as I can remember." There will be more trouble to come. Government officials have been telling reporters that the disputed NSA wiretaps played a part in building the case that led to guilty pleas by two plotters: Iyman Faris, an Ohio truck driver who admitted checking out means of destroying the Brooklyn Bridge, and Mohammed Junaid Babar, a New York City man who acknowledged smuggling money and supplies to an al-Qaeda leader in Pakistan, among other things. Now Faris' attorney and dozens of other lawyers involved in some major terrorism cases are planning to file court challenges to see where the information on their clients came from. Miami attorney Kenneth Swartz represents Adham Amin Hassoun, a Lebanese-born Palestinian who lived in Broward County, Fla., and has been charged, along with Padilla, in an alleged conspiracy to commit terrorist acts abroad. Swartz says if any of the wiretaps used to build a case against his client were done "without legal authority, it would be a real constitutional issue."

There will be a lot of constitutional issues under discussion in weeks to come because the war on terrorism has the potential to embed itself deeply into our legal norms. Conventional wars, against nation-states that can be plainly identified and defeated, have a clear aim in sight. The fight against endlessly shape-shifting terrorist groups is more open-ended. So when we talk about trade-offs between freedom and security, it's a mistake to assume they will be short-term adjustments. The emergency powers that we agree to now may well become the American way for years. We may still agree to them, but it's essential to know exactly what costs they come with.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,1145212,00.html


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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hello? Time motherfuckers?
Of COURSE he's gone too far. He went too far about, oh, years ago. Get your heads out of your asses and look around.

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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. LOL my exact thought
Umm ya dip-shits he crossed that line in 2000 by being appointed!
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. They have to sell it slowly to mainstream America...
...it we were the target audience then I guess the headline would be "BUSH WENT TO FAR!!!"
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. words out of my mouth. they have a hard time seeing the facts
since they live ten feet up cheney's ass.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why is this a question ???
If Time had any guts, they'd stand up with journalistic integrity
and call out these White House crooks with a headline like this..
BUSH HAS GONE TOO FAR!


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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Exactly. Quit weenie-assing around with it.
He's GONE too far. He went too far YEARS ago.

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Donkeykick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. Just one reason...
I dropped my subscription with them!
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. Has he invaded Poland, yet?
:eyes: How many are dead? Does he get a free million?? :eyes:
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. And ALL the Repug asskissers like TIME just
ASSUME Bush is spying on terrorist. IMHO, there will be names that will prove this NOT to be the case IF they come out.
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CantGetFooledAgain Donating Member (635 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Excellent point.
This needs to be repeated again and again, until people start getting it. At this point, we really have no idea who is being spied on and for what reasons.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
39. That is the point indeed
They were spying on anyone and everyone they wanted and most likely NOT terra suspects.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yes, actually. Thank you for asking.
Duh.
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Bob3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yes - now next question - should he be impeached? Yes>
This is the trouble with modern both sides now journalism - sometimes there is just one side to the story - I suspect that if Time existed as it does now in the 30's they would be Publishing things like "Hitler - Menace or visionary" - come to think of it they did.

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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. So our precious democracy is one big game of Chicken for the Corporate...
...Media Whores at Slime?

NGU.


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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. Does a bear ...
Oh, never mind.
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Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Fuck TIME magazine. Propagandist bullshit.
Are they the ones that had the picture of Bush in a bubble on the cover. That is nothing but apologetic shit. "Oh, he is isolated, he is in a bubble. He doesn't know what's "really" going on around him." What a bunch of crap. Looks like the MSM is stepping up to make excuses for Bush again.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. Stop perpetuating the lie, we are NOT at war
"We have the remarkable spectacle of a wartime President..." is perpetuating the lie. WE ARE NOT AT WAR.

The Constitution mandates the President request and Congress delclare a state of war.

This action is Bush's private war, we as a nation are not at war. Rep. Waxman has made this point repeatedly.

Maybe a letter to the Time editor????
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. That would mean
we were not at war in Vietnam, and as Barry Goldwater pointed out in 1964, in most of the wars we did participate in. It might be more accurate to say that the executive and legislative branches have allowed us to get into a war without going through the constitutionally mandated process.
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. In related news...
Is the Pope Catholic?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is a sucker article that draws you in and then apologizes for Bush
It starts with, "An explanation for the NSA's reluctance to seek court approval may be . . .", and ends with the same muddle that turns American reader's brains to mush.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. Notice mtpresstitutes didn't talk
about this on New Year's Day. Just the usual boot licking job..

timmy's big tongue must be black! And notice bill safire's whining about bush getting "blamed" because he didn't act like a leader and instead acted like he was campaigning for something and went off to eat cake with mccain in Arizona and play air guitar in California..is safire one of the biggest Whiners or what?


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10558586/

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. "wartime President"??? Bullshit.
If that asshole were President in 1940, half of us would be speaking German and we'd all be saluting the swastika.
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MODemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
40. Only half of us? He doesn't have a clue as to what a bonified War is
I'm serious when I ask: Aren't others afraid of Bush's crazy actions? He's so dangerous, yet, all they do is just close their eyes and defend all his wrongdoing? He's literally getting away with murder through his bloody-unwinnable quagmire. Bush is :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: It's so sad. :cry:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
19. Yuo thuunk Time
how abut the following headline, not that you will have the integrity to run it.

Bush has gone to far, when will Congress impeach?
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
20. The question is, "should he be criminally prosecuted or just impeached?"
Edited on Sun Jan-01-06 02:35 PM by Marr
He's obviously gone too far. He committed a series of crimes, bragged about it on television, and promised the keep on doing it for the next 3 years. He's basically claimed that the Executive Branch is not only superior to the Legislative Branch, but *above the law*.

The question is not "has he gone too far", but "what should be done about it?"
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. He can't be criminally prosecuted while in office
and even if he could he needs to be impeached...
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
21. Until he starts building concentration camps....
Then, no, he hasn't gone too far. Until then, we're just being partisan. :sarcasm:
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. Has Bush Gone Too Far!!!!
:banghead:


What is wrong with these people!!???!!!!
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
24. Is this part true??????????????????
"But because of a 1978 law that forbids the NSA to conduct no-warrant surveillance inside the U.S., the new policy would require one of two steps. The first was to revise the law. The other was to ignore it."

Does FISA forbid no-warrant surveillance in the US? I thought they could do it still under FISA...?
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. No - if a US citizen is involved, then under FISA, there MUST be a warrant
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Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. A warrent that FISA could supply, correct? 72hrs afterwords...
right?

So then WHY is Time painting this as an issue of the NSA needing to be "free"? And that to be free, the law would have to be revised or ignored?
It's a very dishonest way to frame it.

They were free to spy on everyone they wanted to.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Not only could supply but did...
Since the late 70's FISA has approved over 20,000 warrants and turned down.. um.. 5. There wasn't even a logical reason for Bush to go around the court. Unless he's spying on people other than suspected terrorists. You know.. like political opponents. Even hardcore right-wing asshole William Safire came down on the side of the law this morning on MTP...
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. Time magazine framed something in a dishonest way? I'm SHOCKED, shocked I
say!
:sarcasm:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. Who owns Time?
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Exactly. The answer is the answer to why they're asking...
...such a stupid question. Morons.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. Good question!
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
31. DOH! They have to ASK?
Is Time Magazine run by a bunch of brain-dead monkeys?

Don't answer that. I know...
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wildwww2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
32. Hey Time magazine. When has this murderous pile of filth not gone too far?
I`d like to know. Stealing elections. Ignoring the 9-11 warnings. Disgracing the 9-11 survivors by not launching a proper investigation. The murder of our troops and innocent Iraqi`s based on a pack of lies. Bu$h`s list of going too far could strech across our fascist state of a country. And this stupid magazine now asks if the worlds most famous murderer has gone too far. We have truly entered bizarro world.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President
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tinfoilinfor2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
33. It started about a month ago.
A noticeable turning away by the msm from their new found conscience and aggression, back to coddling and apology and pandering. Obviously somebody got a big boot in the rear end. I didn't think it would last but I'm surprised at myself for being so disappointed. :banghead:
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Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
36. The only thing wrong about that article is the cover date.
It should be 2000 or 2001.
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johnfunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
37. Next week's TIME cover story: "Is the Pope Catholic?"
Can't wait for their follow-up story on whether or not bears do their business in the woods...
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