JESSE JACKSON: False piety is wrong cure for Dems

[ProSense]

False piety is wrong cure for Dems

July 18, 2006

BY JESSE JACKSON

Imagine going to the dentist with an aching tooth, and going through the pain of having it diagnosed and pulled -- only to discover the dentist pulled the wrong tooth. Not only have you suffered for nothing, you've still got to operate on the real problem.

Democrats seem about to put themselves through this agony. Pundits and politicians tell Democrats that they have a "values" problem -- that people of faith vote against them in large numbers because the Democratic party is seen as secular, or as anti-Christian, or as straying from mainstream values.

Poppycock. Democrats didn't lose Florida in 2000 and the 2000 election because of the lack of a high faith profile. Al Gore won the popular vote nationally and the popular vote of the majority who cast ballots in Florida on Election Day. He lost Florida because the fix was in, because the Voting Rights Act was not enforced -- and because Republicans turned the recount into an alley fight while Gore played by rules. Then a transparently partisan majority in the Supreme Court violated its own principles and shamed itself by ordering an end to a fair count, worried Bush might lose. This wasn't about faith; it was about will.

Similarly, Democrats didn't lose Ohio in 2004 and the 2004 election because of the lack of a high faith profile. They lost because the fix was in, and because once again, Republicans had a partisan zealot -- Ken Blackwell -- as secretary of state. Once again he abused the powers of his office in choosing voting machines and election schemes. Once again, a majority of people set out to vote for Bush's opponent.

Having identified the wrong tooth, Democrats are now hearing the wrong prescription. They're urged to embrace the symbols of faith, to go to church, to speak from the Gospel, to advertise their faith.

more...

http://www.suntimes.com/output/jesse/cst-edt-jesse18.html

[jonnyblitz]

1. this should be titled " An Open Letter to Obama"

:thumbsup:

[marmar]

22. Not just Obama...

but just about every high-profile establishment Dem, including one of the victims of the scheming, Kerry himself.

[Rex]

2. Poor elected Dems, running around like worried sheep.

Drink this, eat this, don't look at that, pray here, don't pray here, look this certain way, RUNNNN!!!! I feel a swell of pity for our elected Dems; running around looking like they will say/do/follow anything that helps the poll numbers. This is an M$M myth which seems to be becoming a reality.

[msongs]

3. it wasn't about "will" it was about theft and fraud sheeeesh why not

use the words americans use:

fraud

theft

lies


liars

tyrant

dictator

etc

Msongs
www.msongs.com/demfest1.htm

[gatorboy]

4. Some people may not agree with alot of what Jesse has to say.

BUt the man can write. Great article.

[jobycom]

7. That's because many haven't heard a lot of what he has to say

They've listened to the media portray him as an ambulance chaser, rather than listen to him, and look at his record. The man is one of the greatest living Americans by any objective standard, and he's an outcast at times even in his own party.

[me b zola]

5. Jesse nails it

We still have the moral highground, so stop pandering to people who call themselves religious. We don't have fair and transparent elections, that is what Dems should be concerned with fixing.

[applegrove]

6. It isn't false piety to reach out to religious and find common issues

and work on them. AKA the 20th Century.

[ProSense]

9. What does reaching out to people of faith to find common ground

have to do with lecturing people about values and injecting religion into the political debate? Is the 20th century the era in which Americans ditch the separation of church and state?

[applegrove]

27. No. They had it. But so too people are allowed to worship various faiths

in schools. And, the fight against child labour, for unions, for some of women's rights, civil rights and the fight against the robber barons...was all fought with Liberals and walking the walker religious types.. together.

So why not extend a hand and say.. abortion is not good. Let's work on making it as rare as possible with good health care, and research into new drugs. Cause right now..the debate in Xtian circles is being framed by GOP strategists years in advance. Why wouldn't the democrats put forth their own arguments. And .. of course.. they have science to back them.

[Dr Fate]

25. What common issues? The War on Christmas? Saying "under God?"

Or are we talking about REAl issues like the war, healthcare & the economy?

If it is indeed the latter, show me where the DEMs Jesse critiques have tied the DEM positions on war & the economy to Christian values, or showed how Repubs are hypocrites on those issues.

[applegrove]

28. Civil rights, fight on poverty, rights of workers, child health, and

stopping elites from becoming too powerfull. The same as always. The same issues we have always had in common.

[Dr Fate]

30. Show me where Obama, Hillary & the rest of the God Squad said that.

Show me where they tied any of those issues to Christianity or spiritualism.

If they were doing so in a meaningful way, you would not see so much opposition to their strategy.

I think they fail to do so because they are frightened of insinuating that Bush is a hypocrite when it comes to Christianity- so instead, they choose the much safer target of pro Establishment clause liberals.

As it is, the only "issues" I've seen them bring into that debate is vague, "war on Christmas" type stuff.

Show me where Hillary,Obama, etc. tie Christianity to important, major issues like defense, economy, healthcare, etc.

[applegrove]

33. Why? That is the history of Christian/Liberal activism. The shared fights.

[Dr Fate]

34. So I am exactly right and my charges stand.

I have not seen Obama & Hillary tie MAJOR issues like th War, Healthcare or the economy to Christian values.

My suspicion is they refuse to do this b/c they are frightened to suggest that Bush is spiritually hypocritical on these issues.

Instead of pointing out Bush's spiritual hypocrisy on the war, Katrina, healtcare, etc, Obama & Hillary chose to play it safe and to go after Liberals over "God in the public square"(AKA the "War on Christmas" non-issues)

I could be wrong- show me what you are talking about- give some quotes & links.

If these God-Squad Democrats really would tie those big issues to Christian values, I would favor that.

[applegrove]

37. I think the message from Obama is you have to start somewhere.

Dean made a Blunder re: GL community. And backtracked quickly to "You know what? People are under attack and we don't like wedges". GL Issues are about human rights!

Just as you or I get lost in the mess which is one social engineering project after another... so too do politicians. So when they start to talk about shared issues... it is a beginning.

You may want to be all liberal...contemptuous of very religious types. Who we both feel have been led astray (they are saying now that evangelicalism in American has been a 100 year project of the elites. A religion for patriots to focus on (weekly..as they meet their pastor with a sermon in a church). So. You start at the beginning. As opposed to in the middle. These are politicians. What are the issues your religious parents worked on? What I told you. Who are religious people...other than those bullied..they are people. And religion ... is in there genes the same as gay and lesbian. It is who they are.

So while liberals of all sorts disengaged debates from the religious hierarchy..that ran so much of people lives.. in the 19th century and well into the 1950s... fine..that was hierarchy. People wanted to think outside the box. Those people who were blessed with thinking outside the box genes.

So now.. religion is a bastion of sorts. Where people born to revere a Deity live. And are made fun of. Why? How easy did Liberals make it for them to be excluded?

These are questions. Questions your leaders would be expected to answer. And just as we want gay and lesbian issues to not be erased and attacked.. so too..the fact that there is a religious element.. should not be erased from democratic politics.

The proof is in the results of the the Christian (because it was the USA at the time)/Liberal coalitions that made the country so much better.

GOP has wedged religious so far from Liberals.. intentional..the
"gay" issues was... because it involved a certain amount of brain stem discust... so there we are. Should we liberals revere your frontal lobes.. to the exclusion of all others?

And where exactly do you expect politicians to start. When they say....we need that coalition back. So we can accomplish shit.

Not that we don't need the gay & lesbian community. Of course not. But prayer in schools..where muslim kids have a right to pray.. why not with the christians. For sure there is an agenda. Please, please do not make christian families choose to avoid public schools in favour of religious ones. Cause the religious schools notoriously SUCK!!

How do you fit it all in. Well you need a strong principal. And strong public schools. And you need some connection between the Liberals and the religious. Evangelicals are actually crying out for some meaning.. 3 years into *.

Do you ignore it? Or work with it. Or hand the break between the Liberals and the Evangelicals over to the Republicans for all time? What about abortion? Is it cool? Nope. Does it better somebodies life? Yup. It makes life livable for many, many women. Could drugs and science do a better job of stopping pregnancies than abortion does? Yup. Would that make life better for everyone? Yup!

You can either swallow the wedges hook line and sincker.. or not.

Your choice. Just remember that many, many people...perhaps more than who are intrinsically, genetically, born gay or lesbian... are religious.

Are they destroying the lives of kids who find themselves gay? Are they traumatizing those kids.. shunning them... reversing all the promise of their lives with their hate? Yes. Does abortion do the same thing for Liberals? Most women I know have not had an abortion. Some have. It was awful and traumatizing. And a hurt that went with them for life. But I live in Canada where there is free everything. And so it is rare. So too.. are people who don't seem to mind abortion and use it repeatedly. That's not good. Just like having children repeatedly when one is giving them away willy nilly.. is considered horrible. I know someone who had three babies like that. Filled a need. I'll send this one here. And this one I'll keep. And the third I'll send off somewhere else. How hard did the nurses and doctors come down on her after 3 children with no thought? Pretty dam hard.

So all they are asking.. is that we open up the debate. And perhaps go for a shared resolution (National Health Care would help a great deal).

Abortion is simply not a gift.

Unlike being gay..which as individualism goes.. is a gift.

And so too being religious.. which is a gift... we just don't know how harsh life is going to get after oil runs out. It could be pretty awful when only police and ambulances have access to gas in 50 years. The internet undoes the advantage of education.. only physical labour or presence survives as an exclusive Western thing. We just don't know. And trust me. The drugs to stop pregnancy will be really good. And the drugs to make one happy will be really good. But the ability to afford it all will be really bad. And religious people may be at an advantage then. In the physical world. And of course.. in the World Wide Web world.. intellect and the ability to disseminate information will do some people well. So ... who should Liberals represent? Both I say. With obvious cross-over in huge amounts like there has always been.

But because the GOP has made a supreme effort to force Liberals and Christians to cut off parts of themselves..that they had in common. Does not mean that our leaders in the Democratic Party should not be looking at ways.

Looking for things in common does not mean that you do not keep each other honest. Perhaps.. a fight for better health care avoiding unwanted pregnancies would result in acceptance of the GL community. As religious types shed the whole frame they have been given, look into ovarian cancer innoculations, pills, etc. And find themselves less than all knowing. As Liberals may find themselves less that having a complete monopoly on all ways of being human.

[Dr Fate]

38. when in the world did Hillary & Obama say all of that????

Are we still talking specifics about Hillary & Obama's strategy to court evangelicals, or are you talking about your own opinions?

I thought you were going to show me how Hill & Obama were tying Christian values to REAL issues that we all can agree on.

So far, all I've seen them do is agree with the far right on attacking un-named, strawman Liberals over "the war on Christmas" and "under God."

Prove me wrong- show me the quotes & links.

[applegrove]

39. No. You say I have to give you that.. but I disagree. They are startiing

somewhere. They are politicians. A sorry lot if ever there was one. But whoever they are underneath.. Obama and Hillary... matters a great deal. Sure enough either one would government in a shared risk and shared success way that Bill Clinton did. The GOP governs another way. And it matters who you vote for. But expect them to lead. And ask yourself what that means. And don't discount it because some politician has not expanded on all of it.. what it means.

Are we all poodles? Is there no other thinking allowed to go on outside of the exact words politicians use? Help me..cause I am in Canada.. and I seem to have more freedom than you.

If you are only going to think or discuss as far as politicians speak.. you are in a small box indeed.

[Dr Fate]

40. I've only heard them refer to War On Christmas type non-issues.

When Hillary & Obama are ready to court Evangelicals by discussing REAL, important issues, I'll back them.

So long as they court Evangelicals by targeting unnamed, Liberal strawman, count me out.

You can think outside of what Hillary & Obama actually say all you want-

I'll assume they meant what they said instead of assuming they said what you think they said.

[EST]

8. I rarely criticize those whose efforts have such a direct bearing

on the fate of so many and whose record for helping the disadvantaged and for making a difference in the world is so valuable, but I cannot quite envision Rev. Jackson as a paragon of anti-hypocrisy.

His own false piety does not make him an adequate judge of the spiritual condition of his fellow travelers.

[ecstatic]

10. I agree but don't like the headline

I mean, "false piety" makes it seem like we're the party of atheists. However, Jackson is right in that Democrats need to focus on the issues like ensuring that our vote counts! Focus on jobs, schools,traditional Dem values. STAND UP TO REPUBLICANS, that's a start!

ETA: I really liked this article because its a reminder that many Bush supporters are of 'bad faith.' Their so called Christianity is a smokescreen and their actions reveal them to be very hateful inside.

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. I didn't see it that way at all. I saw the title as being what he meant,

all these odd invocations of God and family values in political speeches, hence the closing note about pious in the first pew.

[durrrty libby]

11. You tell em Rev

Enough of all this pussy-footing around.

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. I can stand behind this

[w4rma]

14. If it were false it would be. (nt)

[IndyOp]

15. The piety may not be false, but all public demonstrations of piety

are, in my opinion, false.

Jackson gets this exactly right:

"Democrats should focus not on the public display of their faith, but on the will to fight for what they believe in. If they don't learn to stand up and fight for what they believe in -- for the Voting Rights Act, for equal opportunity, for full employment and a living wage, for lifting the poor up and not locking them out, for making certain that every vote is counted -- then they just might be left without a prayer."

[Patsy Stone]

16. I wish I could have been #5

K&R!

[Kurovski]

17. K&R.(nt)

[Voltaire99]

18. Preach it, Jesse. The piety ruse is a colossal boner.

Hillary and Obama and Dean and Biden can all pray until they're red in the face. Fat lot of good it will do them.

Not only won't it fool the right wing religiosos, who can smell a phony. But it turns off progressives like myself who want to avoid theocracy, not flirt with it.

[earth mom]

19. You tell those idiots in Congress Jesse!

:applause:

Especially Obama and Hillary! :grr:

[autorank]

20. He's so right. It looks pathetic and foolish. It's pandering and insulti

Just go in there and say, hey, here's where I'm at:

:evilgrin:

They'll be cool, no no problem.

Seriously, Jackson is right on target. Tell them whath you'll do for them. If
thats not enough, you'd never get the vote anyway.

[Vidar]

21. Thank you to Jesse, a true Democrat & true man of God.

[mopinko]

23. fix was in fix was in fix was in fix was in

fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in
fix was in

thanks again, jesse. you would have made a fine president.

[cmkramer]

24. Jesse has a reading comprehension problem

Senator Obama never said that Democrats need to start making public displays of their piety. What he said was that religious people should not have to hide their faith in the public square and that Democrats would do well to reach out more to people of faith. That's a completely different thing from advising the candidate who may not choose to follow a religion -- or even believe in God -- or who may just not feel comfortable with discussing it in public -- to start quoting the Bible at all opportunities and start blabbing about how much he loves going to church, etc. I mean, look how stupid Howard Dean looked when he said Job was his favorite New Testament story. That was as dumb as when Bush said Jesus was his favorite philosopher.

[Dr Fate]

26. In other words, Obama is speaking of "the War on Christmas"

Perhpas I'm wrong- show me where Obama tied the Democratic positions on defense, the economy & healthcare to Christian values.

If he HAD done that, you would see much less oppostion to his flawed strategy.

[Zhade]

29. Testify! the atheist says ironically.

NT!

[readmoreoften]

31. Thank you Jessie! For the love of God...

someone standing up and saying it has nothing to do with the love of god and everything to do with corruption.

[Bretttido]

32. Bad analogy, the Dem party has MULTIPLE aching teeth

Voting rights is one of them.
The perspective a large segment of "values-votes" has with them is another.

[WA98296]

35. Jesse Jackson has described the situation precisely. Great Post.

[truebrit71]

36. Are you sure this wasn't supposed to be addressed to Obama...

...:puke: