Hizbollah is a terrorist organization like Hamas and Al Quada.

[catmother]

i think they should all be wiped off the face of the earth. they are not freedom fighters they are TERRORISTS.

flame away.

[k_jerome]

1. thank you. nt.

[Just Me]

44. According to the U.S. definition of "terrorism", we are the worst,...

,...on the face of the earth because we unlawfully and randomly kill innocent citizens for political reasons.

[leftofthedial]

2. and Likud and the GOP, while you are at it.

[leftchick]

5. and Zionists and Neocons

and DINOS and DLCers. The list goes on.

[cali]

10. WTF???

We've reached a zenith of silliness, and you are the winner. You're actually comparing DINOS to H'zbollah? Too funny.

[BillZBubb]

17. Clearly you can't grasp sarcasm.

I thought only right wingers had that deficiency. It's not called reductio ad absurdem for nothing.

[leftchick]

28. lol!

thanks. This thread is ridiculous.

[cali]

33. Actually not.

I'm familiar with the posters colorful history of hyperbole. i wouldn't credit her with the use of reductio ad absurdem or sarcasm.

[BillZBubb]

38. Sure, I believe you...

[Bretttido]

57. I don't. n/t

[leftofthedial]

22. THAT is exactly the problem.

The list is entirely subjective.

The only difference between the OP's "terrorists" and governments is that unseen, unnamed extremely wealthy people endorse the governments. The "terrorists" use violence in pursuit of political aims. Governments use violence in pursuit of political aims. The reason that "terrorist" organizations exist is that huge constituencies are no longer represented by governments. We are closer to that situation right here in the good old USA than many are able to recognize or are willing to admit.

The terror is the same whether you are a scared kid hiding from a Hezbollah missile, an Israeli missile, or a US missile.

[madaboutharry]

51. You really are losing all crediblity with this one.

n/t.

[leftchick]

3. I have never seen al-Qaeda spelled that way.

Or perhaps Al Quada is yet another US made terrorist group? Like Hezobllah is Israeli made?

[k_jerome]

7. brought it all on themselves didn't they? nt.

[Gormy Cuss]

4. As if we need flamebait on this topic

IBTL.

[marmar]

12. Ain't that the truth...

It's getting "Your mom is fatter than my mom" childish now.

[Bretttido]

58. My killing it better than your killing!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. No flames, just a serious question

How would you go about getting rid of these terrorist organizations without killing or injuring people who happen to be in the same area? The reason I'm saying this is because one of the main recruiting points of these groups (and one of the reasons they stay within a population rather than in their own camps)is to people who have lost loved ones who weren't members of the group, just ordinary folks living their lives.

As Rabbi Lerner was saying on Al Franken this afternoon, peaceful overtures to Israel didn't result in action; the Palestinians, frustrated with Fattah's corruption, voted in Hezbollah. We've got to figure out a way to get the peaceful groups to have more clout so that things can get done--but how?

[John Q. Citizen]

18. The Palastinians voted in Hamas, not Hezbollah. And no they aren't

the same thing.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

31. sorry, sleepy

but the question remains the same-just subsitute the names.

[Truthiness Inspector]

8. No flames from me

I'm glad you posted this.

[Leopolds Ghost]

9. Correct. Unfortunately what's going on now is CONVENTIONAL WARFARE.

Which is no more morally justified than terrorism, if you are a religious person.

[BillZBubb]

11. Drank the Israeli Kool-Aid I see.

You don't have a clue. Hezbollah has a militant arm, but they also provide social services and assistance to many Lebanese. Hamas is the same. How many have to die to satisfy your blood lust?

Both have legitimate grievances against Israel. Both have their militant wing run by reptile brained goons, JUST LIKE ISRAEL. They all think "out toughing" the other guy is the way to win. Just like you. The truth is nobody wins and war will go on indefinitely.

The Israeli's are terrorists just as much as Hamas and Hezbollah, they just wrap it up under the aegis of a government.

[chimpymustgo]

15. Now, THIS thread SHOULD be moved to the basement. nt

nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. SEE PEOPLE!! ANOTHER Hezbollah and Hamas supporter!

BUT I'm dreaming all this, right?

[k_jerome]

26. heck, i have seen it everywhere this week...

i am in disbelief about what is being said here.

[in_cog_ni_to]

32. well, I just had a discussion with a few here who didn't "believe" me,

but, of course, that was from the anti-Israel crowd.:(

[k_jerome]

37. you should have seen the stuff i read yesterday...

that crowd is really big. i really can't believe some things i have read. i can even understand if criticism is leveled at both sides, but the one-sided hatred of Israel is mind blowing. oh well.

[Truthiness Inspector]

36. Sadly, lol

Sure Hamas' and Hezbollah's objective is to wipe Israel off the face of the planet, but they've done some "nice" things too!

Jeffrey Dahmer probably bought someone lunch too. :eyes:

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. It's all so surreal, isn't it?

I feel like I'm in a twilight zone!:crazy:

[High Plains]

13. I think "terrorism" and its variants are terms of propaganda

and should be barred from the discourse. They add nothing.

Since Hezbollah and Hamas are mass organizations representing at least pluralities of their populations, are you advocating genocide?

[leftchick]

24. when Israel bombs and kills civilians it is NOT terrorism

Same with the USA. It is only when grassroots fundamentalist groups do it that it is "TERROR".

Go figure. :eyes:

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. Now you compare Hezbollah and Hamas as "Grasroots"

"rofl::rofl::rofl: OMG. That's the funniest thing I've read yet!

[BillZBubb]

35. In assymetrical warfare, the weaker side becomes the "terrorists"

That's just the way it goes. The Israelis have a modern military with top flight weaponery. The other side arms itself catch as catch can. They use what they've got.

The Israelis can kill civilians, and know they will, but claim they aren't "targeting" civilians. The other side shoots whatever they've got and hope to hit something. They know also they'll kill civilians. In both cases civilians are dead, and the killers knew civilians would be dead. The end result is the same.

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. Catmother

gets a hug! :hug: You are correct.

[KingFlorez]

16. Then why are they bombing Lebanon as if Hezbollah controls that government

[k_jerome]

23. did you see the Lebanese UN ambassador interviewed...

they way he hemmed and hawed, they do.

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. Indeed. They're all afraid of being assassinated. n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. Hezbollah hides its weapons among the highly populated areas

so they can use the dead citizens in their propaganda films. They use homes in highly populated neighborhoods where they have "launching rooms" aimed at Israel. It's their modus operandi and always has been...just like Hamas. They claim to LOVE these people and use them to further their own SICK agenda, regardless of how many get killed in the attempts to take them out.

[Scurrilous]

45. You got links to any of this stuff you're spewing...

...you know...where Hezbollah has 'launching rooms' in heavily populated neighborhoods. I'd like to see this verified from a reputable source.

I'd also like to see a link to the Hezbollah propaganda films that 'use' dead citizens.

[k_jerome]

48. watch the videos of the rockets being launched multiple times

before being taken out by Israel.

[in_cog_ni_to]

52. WHY? You don't believe the truth.

I heard it from the Israeli Ambassador at the Security Council meeting last week. NO ONE has denied it either. Of course that comes from Israeli intelligence so it's USELESS TO YOU.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/14072006/3/world-hezbollah-leader-vows-open-war.html

and if you want any other links, look it up yourself. Nothing I post will be good enough for the Israel hating crowd.

[Scurrilous]

56. Well if the Israeli Ambassador says it...

...it must be true.

That's all the proof I need!

Bombs away on the Lebanese civilians! :thumbsup:

[rooboy]

19. The only solution is to kill all arabs and jews...

and in due time the true right wingers will sieze government in America and do it.

[Spazito]

20. Could you explain the difference between the actions of the Haganah

and the Irgun that were taken before the partition of Palestine, actions like the bombing of the King David Hotel, and the actions taken by Hamas and Hezbollah? Did not the actions of the Haganah and Irgun bring about what was wanted, the state of Israel? Could their actions at the time have been classified as terrorists in today's vernacular? Were they freedom fighters? How does one differentiate? Who determines what defines a terrorist and what defines a freedom fighter?

The same question could be asked about those who fought the British in the American revolution, would they, too, qualify as terrorists by today's definitions?

Until there is a universally accepted definition of what a terrorist is and what a freedom fighter is, I find it interesting that the terms are thrown about so easily.

[rockymountaindem]

39. Well, for starters, the King David Hotel was a military target

It was the headquarters of the British military in mandatory Palestine. Furthermore, Haganah issued a warning prior to the attack. From wikipedia:

"A warning message was delivered to the telephone operator of the King David Hotel before the attack and also delivered to the French consulate and the Palestine Post newspaper. According to Irgun sources, the message read "I am speaking on behalf of the Hebrew underground. We have placed an explosive device in the hotel. Evacuate it at once - you have been warned."

Irgun representatives have always claimed that the warning was given well in advance so that adequate time was available to evacuate the hotel. Menachem Begin writes (p. 221, The Revolt, <1951> ed.) that the telephone message was delivered 25 - 27 minutes before the explosion. The British authorities denied for many years that there had been a warning at all, but the leaking of the internal police report on the bombing during the 1970s proved that a warning had indeed been received. However, the report claimed that the warning was only just being delivered to the officer in charge as the bomb went off."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

I think that's different from walking into a pizza place or a disco unannounced and just blowing oneself up with the aim of killing as many people as possible.

[Spazito]

47. So, if Hezbollah and Hamas were to claim to have given warnings

before their bombs went off, that would be acceptable? If Hamas and Hezbollah only concentrated on military targets like the killing and kidnapping of the 3 Israeli soldiers that were the reason Israel is bombing Lebanon, that would be legitimate as was the bombing of the King David Hotel, if I read your post right? There were no civilians hurt in the bombing? You didn't really answer whether they would be considered terrorists by today's terminology or not. If so, why, if not, why not?

[John Q. Citizen]

25. Did they blow up the Palistine Hotel and pin it on the Zionist?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

27. I'll agree that they are terrorists

So was the French Resistance
So was the Irish Republican Army
So were American Indians attacking wagon trains

But the leap from calling them terrorists to calling for them all to be categorically wiped off the face of the earth I think requires just a little more justification. I'm not saying you are wrong, but the mere fact a movement uses terror as a tactic is not enough. We need a better reason than a knee-jerk equation. Hopefully, in the dialogue of justification, we'll see why things are not all black and white and why maybe there are shades of gray. Through that process, maybe we can all have a change of consciousness, especially if all sides would try to sit down and debate it.

[bronxiteforever]

30. yes but how much death is it worth to you?

10 children, 20, 30, 40-is it worth destroying Lebanon for two soldiers?, is it worth killing old women men caught where they are? what is the honor and the morality then-you become a monster so the monster will not take you-I have reached the stage in life where the calculus of violence disgusts me-an eye for an eye and the world is blind-for once let the warriors try nonviolence-but that alas takes courage

[BillZBubb]

40. Do you suggest firing squads or gas chambers?

Just wondering what your "final solution" will be for wiping so many people off the face of the earth.

[in_cog_ni_to]

54. Another sick and demented post by you. n/t

[k_jerome]

55. projection? nt.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. "Terrorist" is a meaningless term used to justify war.

As is "freedom fighter". They are interchangeable depending on which side is using either term.

i.e. To the blacks in South Africa, the ANC were "freedome fighters". To the South African government they were "terrorists".

The same could be said for groups as diverse as the Zapatistas in Mexico, the FARC in Columbia, the Taliban in Afghanistan, the NLF in Vietnam, the "Sons of Liberty" in colonial America, the Irgun and Stern Gang in Israel, or the Jayhawkers and Bushwackers in Kansas and Missouri.

"Terrorism" is a tactic of warmaking, no more or no less so than carpet bombing or "Shock and Awe".

And, as usual, it's the civilians and innocents who pay the price for the machinations of the warmakers.

[rug]

46. I see why you moved from Queens.

[Junkdrawer]

49. You're just going to LOVE WW III...

Tons and tons of "undesirable" people will be wiped off the face of the earth.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

50. And how would you propose this be done?

Is any means worth the end result? How many innocent people are you willing to see exterminated just so long as these terrorist are wiped off the face of the earth?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

53. If it's a military target, it's not terrorism.

Capturing those Israeli troops = not terrorism.

[varkam]

59. Locking.

Flamebait.