inasmuch as my last thread was locked before i could reply

[catmother]

to questions, i'll try now.

first of all i incorrectly spelled al qaeda.

hizbollah and hamas and al qaeda have done many things for the poor. that's how they get them roped into their cause. they feed the hungry, cloth them and even build schools.

did anyone ever hear of John Gotti? he was the head of the mafia in new york. he killed a lot of people. he was a bad guy. but he also gave a big 4th of july party every year, free of charge, all you could eat, rides, etc. to those people he was a god. they mourned for him when he died in prison. his funeral in queens was befitting that of a king. did that make him a good guy?

i don't know how we could wipe out these groups. there are minds much greater than mine that would have answers. i don't like seeing innocent people killed, but no one seems to care about the israels who were killed. i can't believe the amount of anti semitism on these forums.

as far as the person who questioned why i moved from queens. i'd like to hear from you as to why you think i did. were you implying that there were too many arabs there? i lived in a predominantly jewish area, but worked in new york city with people of all races. almost every cab driver in new york is an arab and i had no problem with them.

and no i'm not jewish, but i've had a lot of jewish friends and co-workers and even knew some holocaust survivors.

israel gave back land to the palestinians against the wishes of some of their own people whose homes were bulldozed, but that wasn't enough. the palestinians and others still kept bombing them. all they want is a peaceful place to live. it's such a small piece of land. i'm not a bible reader, but it seems like they've been persecuted from the beginning of time.

so if i seem a little angry and offensive, forgive me i'm just tired of all the jew-bashing.

[rug]

1. Mods need a bigger lock.

[EFerrari]

2. Yes, they do. And they already do a helluva job. n/t

[leftchick]

7. for gods sakes!

I'll help!



:eyes:

[burythehatchet]

10. Mods need a fuckin deadbolt

[Zhade]

33. This thread is against the rules.

IBTL, though.

[leftchick]

37. one would think

:shrug:

[Zhade]

42. Just more double-standards.

The longer this madness goes on, the harder it will be for DU to recover.

[jonnyblitz]

45. yup..."you are all jew haters" comments have been pulled before

this is getting tiresome.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rug]

46. Luke 12:14

[catmother]

51. thank you.

[uppityperson]

3. catmother, this seems a better way to say it, thanks for restating

a whole lot of division making is going on here, a lot of people upset and ready to bash fast. I agree that there are few absolutes, not black/white but shades of grey in everyone and every group, mostly. hang in there and don't let the bashers get to you. peace, up

[catmother]

13. thank you.

[lastknowngood]

4. Sorry things are getting hot but understand that they gave back

a little piece of land that was part of a large piece of land that was taken at the point of a gun in 1947. The only right they have to the land is their military power and many people are still alive who had their land taken. Remember the Jews say never again, what do you think the Palestinians say?
There is no good answer at the point of a gun and blood feuds always end badly.

[question everything]

12. The war in 1947 started by them and they lost

That piece of land - Gaza - was not taken by Israel until 1967 - another war that they started and lost. In the intervening 20 years, that land was controlled by Egypt, where no one protested and where they did not even have an Egyptian citizenship.

The map of the globe is full of lands that were transferred back and forth during wars.

[catmother]

14. your absolutely right. gaza was won in 1967. i don't know all

the facts. but i think england split up the land and gave a piece to each, but the palestinians wanted it all. they went to war and lost it.

another thing. israel has the BOMB. they have never used it. does anyone think if the palestinians had the bomb that they would not use it?

i live in arizona. it used to be mexico.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[catmother]

32. they are terrorists -- the same as the ones who hit us on 9/11.

i still cannot get the picture out of my mind of people in certain areas of the mideast clapping and cheering when the towers went down. many of them were in this country too -- right in jersey city.

if you think i'm cruel and absurd just think about all the people that have been killed or mutilated by terrorists. for god's sake, they fucking kill their own. they can't even get along with each other.

now i'm going to log off and watch some tv -- not the news.

[blonndee]

34. You should google the Jersey City story. nt

[catmother]

48. is that what it's called "the Jersey City story"? my friend lives

in a building right down the street from where the 1993 terrorists who hit the world trade center lived.

[blonndee]

50. I don't know if other people call it that, I was just

referring to what you said. I doubt that it's even true, but I wanted you to see it because, ironically enough, it's been reported as the "Dancing Israelis" story used by a lot of fringe sites against Jewish people, as a part of the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" by Mossad or some such nonsense like that.

Here is a link to a google page using the words "jersey 9/11 cheering"

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial_s&hl=en&q=jersey+9%2F11+cheering&btnG=Google+Search

[catmother]

53. thank you.

[dogday]

5. I have a son in Iraq

I don't care who did what at this point.. It has to stop.. The escalation of war has to stop.. My son is a sitting duck over there with all of this mess. That is what I am angry about... I could care less who started it or who gets called what names, I just want them to stop before it gets out of hand...

[catmother]

15. well we know who started the war in iraq. i hope your son stays

safe.

[merci_me]

22. I can only imagine

how it must be to have one of your children over there. May he return safe and sound and may the days until then be as peaceful as possible for all of your family. Bless you all.

[Minnesota Libra]

6. Here, here, it does get old real quick. It seems the left..........

......for the most part hates Israel and the Jews and the right thinks Israel could do no wrong. I'm sorry but I see very little if any difference in the two extremes except one is on the far right and one is on the far left. :argh:

[catmother]

17. the interesting thing is that jews -- i'm speaking of american jews

tend to be liberal in their thinking and voting. it was the jews who owned businesses who gave black people jobs back in the 50s. before i left new york in 89 all the jews i knew had voted for mayor dinkins -- a black man.

it was mostly jews who went down south and fought for civil rights.

i'm a liberal and i'm siding with israel.

[KoKo]

23. If you searched out those Jews that you are talking about who gave

black people jobs in the 50's and worked for civil rights in the 60's and voted for Mayor Dinkins in the late 80's you might find that not all of them are supporters of Israel's actions against the Palestinians or what is going on now. You seem to feel all Jews are "lock step" and the only folks who have given Black people jobs, worked for civil rights or vote for black politicians.

It really isn't as black and white as you say...and if you think about it you could probably think of instances where that is so.

[catmother]

24. since i've moved to phoenix i havent' met many jewish people.

i'm speaking from my experiences in new york.

my sister is a convert to judaism and i haven't seen a word from her on this forum.

[KoKo]

20. I haven't seen any lefties here saying they "hate Israel." I've seen lots

of good discussion on both sides of the issues. I'm here alot and just somehow keep missing the "hate threads" that folks keep posting about.

There was a post earlier today saying Lefties call Israeli's "Evil." I asked the poster for quotes and names of those they saw posting that Israel was "evil." I never got a reply.

It seems odd that I'm here alot on GD and don't see these posts you say are here...and any Lefties out there on the TV or elswhere saying they "hate" Israel or it is as the other poster said, "evil."

I don't visit the "I/P Forum" at DU regularly ...if you saw it there then you could at least give quotes of posts so one can understand why you say what you have.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KoKo]

40. If it was a thread on DU could you post the link

or the post from the thread? Thanks... I'd like to see what the lunatic from Finland had to say.

[brentspeak]

44. Here's the link, Koko

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1666787&mesg_id=1667611

[catmother]

49. so would i. nt

[Poll_Blind]

8. Your inability or unwillingness to separate criticism of the actions...

...of the Israeli government from the Jewish people indicates to me that you do not understand the reality of how much Liberal Jewish thought exists.

  I strongly recommend Jewish Voice for Peace

PB

[LittleClarkie]

16. Well, enough to have their own buttons for Election 2004

I remember those.

[catmother]

18. i know that there are jews in this country and in israel who are

protesting this war.

[mzteris]

9. see - what I like to do is -

research a subject as if I'm on the OPPOSITE side of what I'm currently "believing". I go after MY beliefs and try to disprove them. I try to PROVE the opposite of what I believe.

I learn a whole lot that way about what *I* believe and what the *other person* believes. Sometimes I find that I just might not have the whole story. Sometimes I find out that the other side IS all wet. or that they may have some valid points. Or that I'm completely *wrong* (not usually, though :P )

All I'm saying is - just maybe you want to run this through the rinse cycle a few more times.


Oh - fyi - I had to laugh when I read this:

"hizbollah and hamas and al qaeda have done many things for the poor. that's how they get them roped into their cause. they feed the hungry, cloth them and even build schools."

Reminds me of my local churches...... :rofl:

(Edit my smilie symbol)

[catmother]

19. that's why i never give money to religious groups.

[question everything]

11. Thank you. I was going to post something along this line

and I did not read your other post.

Global terrorism is not located in North Korea, Saddam's Iraq, Syria or Iran. Yes, they probably all fund terrorist organizations and have training camps, but they keep a tight reign over their populations. Not a single terrorist group, Arab or otherwise, has been operating from inside a tyrannical state.

But they do send them to democracies: current Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt, Palestine.. where they can form parties and vote and then start their activities.

And, yes, as you've pointed out - they take care of the poor and the sick, they provide schools (where they teach their own curriculum) and clinics and soup kitchens. I've once heard an Indian activist complaining about Mother Teresa whose activities relieved the Indian government from caring for the sick.

Even in Israel there are some fundamentalist parties that do the same and then gain votes. No, they are not involved in terror activities, but they get enough votes and influence to get funds for more activities.

And if in this country faith based organization will take care of our own sick and elderly and good schools, they, too, will generate more votes for their causes.

The governments meanwhile are busy promoting capitalism, providing incentives for foreign investors. And they can show how they run lean budget, are bothered with those "social programs" that everyone knows have poor return on investments.

Someone yesterday commented that the recent elections, at least in Palestine and in Lebanon, and perhaps in Egypt, too, a voter has only two choices: ruling elite and the islamists.

[catmother]

21. sad. isn't it?

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[catmother]

28. didn't they win those borders in 67? hey i'm in arizona -- it used

to be mexico, but the US won it in a war. are we going to give it back to mexico? hell no.

[Warren Stupidity]

39. UN treaty forbids conquest of territories.

You are not allowed to win anyone's territory no matter who started the war. You have to give it back. The fact that we stole half of Mexico does not make Israel's occupation of Palestinian land just.

[Warren Stupidity]

26. "the palestinians and others still kept bombing them"

And there it is: the one sided view - the Palestinians are bad the Israelis are good. Israel withdrew from occupied Gaza and continued to kill the residents of Gaza. The residents of Gaza continued to kill Israelis. If you continue to view this as good guys vs bad guys you will be lost in a morass of one dimensional propaganda idiocy.

At the beginning of June the IDF shelled the Gaza beach, denied it had done so, and killed 8 civilians in that one attack. Why they did this is anyone's guess, but my guess is that it was a deliberate provocation intended to induce a reaction from the militants in Gaza. That reaction came with the cross border raid and capture of an IDF soldier. From there we got to here and we are on the cusp of WWIII. You need to step back and at least try to understand that indeed Israelis want to live in peace, but they cannot do that by taking Palestinian lands and corralling the Palestinian population into a walled in series of bantustans with no possible viability. There are two sides to this conflict and each side has legitimate grievances.

[leftchick]

27. yeah!

SOMEONE WITH A GRASP OF THE COMPLEX ON THIS THREAD!!!!

:)

[Lindacooks]

31. Thank you. Your DU name is VERY appropriate.

[question everything]

43. You got it wrong

Israel withdrew from Gaza and once Hamas took over, it started shelling Israel which, of course, replied.

That family on the beach was killed by Hamas' own mine.

Hamas' goal is the annihilation of Israel, as is Hezbollah. They say it up front. Israel is not a Christian country, it does not turn the other cheek but responds when attacked.

And, yes, the blockage of the straits of Tiran in 1967 was an act of war.

[Scurrilous]

56. The Single-Mine Theory.

Interesting to see some still clinging to that.

[Kajsa]

52. Someone with a grasp of the situation.

:thumbsup:

btw;Can we please knock off this damn name calling?
Someone upstream started in on " left wing wackos"

What is this?
Free Republic?

And remember,we have members from all over the globe,
so lighten up on the expectations of perfect English.

Try posting in another language.

[Lindacooks]

29. It's not true that no one cares about Israelis who are killed.

The problem is the numbers. TEN TIMES as many Lebanese have been killed as Israelis. That points out the lopsidedness of this conflict, and that's what many people are upset about.

And don't you dare tell me I'm Jew bashing. I'm for anyone to defend themselves, but Israel constantly over-reacts to any 'threat', whether real or imagined.

[SPKrazy]

41. I Don't Think They Imagine Much In The Way Of Threats

I in fact think they've shown incredible restraint over time.

I've said let the genie out of the bag, let Israel deal with Israel's problems.

It's better than thinking that we need to send our troops to deal with that problem anymore than we've already sent our troops to deal with "democracy" (yeah right, I thought it was WMD's, then liberation, now democracy? hell we don't even have democracy anymore I don't think)

I think Israel should be able to do what they feel they need to do to eliminate the threats from Hezbollah, Hamas, or any other enemy they have.

[catmother]

55. you are right. let israel do what they feel they need to. this

whole thing is distracting us from iraq and bushco.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ladjf]

54. Hamas and Hezbollah are political movements. The literal role

of active members is transient. If they could all be executed tomorrow, their rolls would be back up to strength in six months. You can't kill a movement with bombs.

[pinto]

57. Locking.

Please do not continue/reopen discussion of a locked thread in a new thread.

Thanks.