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Anyone remember Sabra and Shitila?

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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 08:47 PM
Original message
Anyone remember Sabra and Shitila?
http://www.geocities.com/shatila1982/massacre.html

Nothing the Lebanese or the PLO does is "unprovoked."
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nothing? Every suicide bomber applauded by you, then?
Perhaps a call to end violence on both sides is a better strategy...
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. It was the first event that got me interested in middle east politics
The man responsible for that war crime was Ariel Sharon. He was indicted by the international court. But shortly before the trial was to begin, the main witness to testify was blown uop in his car.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. I can't say agree with that. They seem to have their share...
...of conservative extremists just as the Israeli government does. However, they are not so well-funded out of U.S. taxpayer pockets as the IDF is.

  Those massacres are worth noting, they weigh heavy on the Arab (and certainly Palestinian) consciousness. They don't weigh so heavily on the Likud voters who put Sharon in power, his hands were covered in blood, and not the blood of soldiers either, in that disasterous affair.

PB
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. ...
Edited on Tue Jul-18-06 08:56 PM by NoPasaran
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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yes, and i remember who was responsible for them and it wasn't
the Lebanese people.
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. I do. It was a horrendous event. It forever defined Ariel Sharon for me.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. Sure...do you remember Shatila and Burj-el Barajneh?
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. See when you read bullshit like that
you end up spouting that crap all over. The main witness against Sharon was blown up just before the trial was to begin. They seem to have omitted that fact. Read something objective. Do yourself a favor.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. How is it bullshit?
Because you said so? Perhaps because I am not reading it from an Arab source? Do your self a favor and drop the rabid hatred you have for Israel!
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Rule number 11. You learn well.
Rule 1: See the Middle East through Israeli eyes.
Rule 2: Treat American and Israeli governmental statements as hard news.
Rule 3: Ignore the historical context.
Rule 4: Avoid the fundamental legal and moral issues posed by the Israeli occupation.
Rule 5: Suppress or minimize news unfavorable to the Israelis.
Rule 6: Muddy the waters when necessary.
Rule 7: Credit all Israeli claims, even if wholly unfounded.
Rule 8: Doubt all Palestinian assertions, no matter how self-evident.
Rule 9: Condemn only Palestinian violence.
Rule 10: Disparage the international consensus supporting Palestinian rights.

There is an eleventh rule that hovers over all the other rules. Equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. This shuts everyone up.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Did you read "Jew?"
I wrote "ISRAEL," seems the only screaming "anti-Semitism' is YOU!
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. How is it bullshit?
The only mention of Sharon is that he resigned. That is bullshit in terms of his involvement.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:10 PM
Original message
hiccup
Edited on Tue Jul-18-06 09:11 PM by Behind the Aegis
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Follow the links...
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I did, here's what I found
Regarding Unit 101

In 1953, he founded and led the “101” special commando unit which carried out retaliatory operations against Palestinian fedayeen

The rest of the story:

Sharon's first documented sortie in this role was in August of 1953 on the refugee camp of El-Bureig, south of Gaza. An Israeli history of the 101 unit records 50 refugees as having been killed; other sources allege 15 or 20. Major-General Vagn Bennike, the UN commander, reported that "bombs were thrown" by Sharon's men "through the windows of huts in which the refugees were sleeping and, as they fled, they were attacked by small arms and automatic weapons".


Regarding Qibya - no mention

The story:

Israeli historian Avi Shlaim describes the massacre thus: "Sharon's order was to penetrate Qibya, blow up houses and inflict heavy casualties on its inhabitants. His success in carrying out the order surpassed all expectations. The full and macabre story of what happened at Qibya was
revealed only during the morning after the attack. The village had been reduced to rubble: forty-five houses had been blown up, and sixty-nine civilians, two thirds of them women and children, had been killed. Sharon and his men claimed that they believed that all the inhabitants had run away and that they had no idea that anyone was hiding inside the houses."

The UN observer on the scene reached a different conclusion: "One story was repeated time after time: the bullet splintered door, the body sprawled across the threshhold, indicating that the inhabitants had been forced by heavy fire to stay inside until their homes were blown up over them." The slaughter in Qibya was described contemporaneously in a letter to the president of the United Nations Security Council dated 16 October 1953 (S/3113) from the Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary of Jordan to the United States. On 14 October 1953 at 9:30 at night, he wrote, Israeli troops launched a battalion-scale attack on the village of Qibya in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (at the time the West Bank was annexed to Jordan).

According to the diplomat's account, Israeli forces had entered the village and systematically murdered all occupants of houses, using automatic weapons, grenades and incendiaries. On 14 October, the bodies of 42 Arab civilians had been recovered; several more bodies were still under the wreckage. Forty houses, the village school and a reservoir had been destroyed. Quantities of unused explosives, bearing Israel army markings in Hebrew, had been found in the village. At about 3 a.m., to cover their withdrawal, Israeli support troops had begun shelling the
neighbouring villages of Budrus and Shuqba from positions in Israel.


As head of Southern Command - no mention

The story:

"'They came at night and began marking the houses they wanted to demolish with red paint,' said Ibrahim Ghanim, 70, a retired labourer. 'In the morning they came back, and ordered everyone to leave. I remember all the soldiers shouting at people, Yalla, yalla, yalla, yalla! They threw everyone's belongings into the street. Then Sharon brought in bulldozers and started flattening the street. He did the whole lot, almost in one day. And the soldiers would beat people, can you imagine? Soldiers with guns, beating little kids!' By the time the Israeli army's work was done, hundreds of homes were destroyed, not only on Wreckage Street but throughout the camp, as Sharon ploughed out a grid of wide security roads. Many of the refugees took shelter in schools, or squeezed into the already badly over-crowded homes of relatives. Other families, usually those with a Palestinian political activist, were loaded into trucks and taken to exile in a town in the heart of the Sinai Desert, then controlled by Israel."

As Reeves reported, the devastation of Beach Camp was far from the exception. "In August 1971 alone, troops under Mr Sharon's command destroyed some 2,000 homes in the Gaza Strip, uprooting 16,000 people for the second time in their lives. Hundreds of young Palestinian men were arrested and deported to Jordan and Lebanon. Six hundred relatives of suspected guerrillas were exiled to Sinai. In the second half of 1971, 104 guerrillas were assassinated. 'The policy at that time was not to arrest suspects, but to assassinate them', said Raji Sourani, director of the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights in Gaza City".



Much much more, if only you would open your mind.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. and if you would open yours...
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Hope you didn't have to work too hard on that response!
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-18-06 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Probably as hard as you worked on yours.
Edited on Tue Jul-18-06 09:54 PM by Behind the Aegis
:eyes:

There are all kinds of information out there to digest. I don't always eat at the same "restaurant."
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