I want to know something

[whosinpower]

I am reminded of the Iraq invasion. There were countless millions - MILLIONS of people worldwide that protested the inevitable invasion of Iraq.
I did not then, and do not now agree with the Bush administration on the Iraq mess. But, that does not make me anti-american. See - I can seperate the nation from its political hacks. I don't hate americans. My faith in the american democratic process has been badly frayed after the last presidential election cycle - but that still does not make me anti-american. Because, I think that a politician cannot DEFINE what makes a nation, nor can that same politician give that nation its heart and soul. That comes from its people.

So, based on this - I cannot understand that any dissent or any criticism of Israel is immediately thrown into the anti-semitic or anti-Israel camp. I am not against Israel. BUT ITS RECENT BOMBING OF LEBANESE INFRASTRUCTURE IS TOTALLY, UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY WRONG.
Come on people - airports, milk factories?????? UN posts??? It is wrong. It is wrong on so many levels.

So why is it when I say that it is wrong - I must be for the destruction of Israel??? Nothing is further from the truth. Why is it that I must be cheering for Hizbollah if I am against what Israel is doing??? That is a lie.

Stop falling into the trap that the only option for Israel is a military one. That too is a lie forced down our throats. Israel's current political leaders are neocons, bent on expanding their influence, power and might in the region. And Israel's people deserve better than that. I can be one hundred percent against what its leaders are doing and still be in favor of the idea of a nation named Israel.

[blonndee]

1. Yes!

I said this in another post, but it was WRONG for the RWers to do it to us on Iraq and it is just as wrong for us to do it to each other.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I agree

I seperate the government of Israel and its policies from Jewish people. They are not the same thing. There are many Jews throughout the world who disagree with this policy of war and agression-Rabbi Michael Lerner being one of them.

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. Thank you

Just because I'm Italian doesn't mean I would ever blindly support a fascist like Silvio Berlusconi just because he's Italian. It is the same thing with the Israeli situation. It is the people in charge of US and Israeli foreign and military policy that are the problem. The rest of us from all countries are just insignificant pawns in their war fantasy.

[MuseRider]

4. Well said

I totally agree.

[Robbien]

5. The buzz word "anti-semite" is a ploy to shut down all conversation

on the criminal actions of the state, just as the buzz word "anti-American" was a ploy to shut down all reasonable discussion of the BushCo criminal invasion of Iraq.

[cali]

9. Sometimes yes and sometimes

no. There absolutely have been expressions of real and ugly anti-semitism on DU lately. To deny this and claim that the accusation is invariably undeserved is to deny reality.

[Robbien]

12. Lately DU has been infested with a gang of flame baiters

where the flames are getting out of hand.

I do not trust most of all of the extreme posts being made here recently. Some people are newly here just to play games.

[karlrschneider]

6. If we criticize our OWN gov't, DUers give us kudos but if we take Israel's

to task we get labelled as antisemites. Neocons aren't the only ones with double standards.
:grr: :puke:

[EFerrari]

7. Exactly so. Well said.

K&R

[cali]

8. That's not so on DU

First off, there's been tons of harsh criticism if Israel on DU that hasn't been met with cries of anti-semitism, second of all, I find the cry that "I can't criticize Israel, or I'll be called an anti-semite", just as gratuitous as people throwing out the former accusation. Both are too often used to intimidate the other party. Thirdly, there has been, alas, a disturbing outbreak of true anti-semitism on DU. Threads have been locked and numerous posts have been deleted. I believe most of those making these comments are disruptors, but some of the comments have come from long time users. I've also noticed an influx of gung-ho, rah, rah Israel folks. None of this is helpful.

[Lerkfish]

15. sadly, I can't think of anything that WOULD be helpful at this point.

nothing but bloodshed in the cards, with no end in sight.

[magellan]

10. Well put

It's the same black and white thinking that causes some DUers to say anyone who opposes illegal immigration is a racist. Which is the same again as those on the Right who say anyone who opposes Bush** is a traitor.

Labels are easy. Understanding isn't. Personally I'll take the road less traveled.

[LeftCoast]

11. Thank you for saying this! K & R!

:kick:

[I_Make_Mistakes]

14. Well, actually, Semites refer to most of the Middle Eastern people

technically (Webster's New World Dictionary, Third College Edition Semite.." 1, a person regarded as descended from Shem. 2. a member of any of the peoples speaking a Semitic language, including the Hebrews, Arabs, Assyrians, Phoenicians etc. 3. Jews, a loose usage.", so that is a false statement in and of itself.

Additionally, the Zionists, by calling anyone who criticizes Israels actions as anti-Semitic, which has become very common now, run the risk of crying wolf when not validly called for and will damage their credibility when it is appropriate to do so.

I have never been discriminatory to anyone based on their ethnicity, but, this over use of anti-semitism to stifle criticism of Israel (I criticize the US all the time and get called anti American even though my great great grandmother was NA and I am American), does not help the cause of Israel.

[cali]

16. actually, this matter is settled and well settled at that.

the word antisemitism is, if you will, a term of art. It was coined by a man named Wilhelm Marr in Germany in 1879 to describe a philosophy of virulent anti-jewish sentiment. So, you're right, a semite is indeed a descriptor of people who share a common ancestor and speak a number of related languages, but antisemitism has a specific meaning not accurately connected to its word root. We have lots of them in the English language- ladybug, for instance. Why how can that be? A lady isn't a bug and visa versa, but language is funny. Now I suppose it's possible that you could form an association to change the meaning of the word, but there's no guarantee you'd be able to effect the change you desire. BTW, what I mean when I say it's a settled matter I'm referring to usage and academic concensus. Virtually no one, either in the world of journalism or in academic circles, use antisemitism to describe anything but what Herr Marr defined it as, nearly 140 years ago.

But as I said, go to town, and try and change that usage!

[I_Make_Mistakes]

17. Isn't that discriminatory then by it's very nature. The truth is the

words meaning in your assertion was changed from it's root meaning. It's kinda of like the liberal word change, oh, maybe you get that! Perhaps, people should use words in their true meaning and not try to co opt usage to their own ends. Truth is truth, and I don't care who tries to change word meanings to define, justify or condone their end, because that in it's pure sense is willful DECEPTION and EVIL.

I guess my appeal to you is don't let people redefine the meaning of any word they chose, because then none of us will be able to communicate effectively. The RW deceived the NE states, I and every Rep. I know didn't get the meaning of the coded words used by them in the previous decades, which skewed our ability to vote appropriately.

[SoCalDem]

13. It's hard to give up a dream..

The people who created israel almost 60 years ago had a dream.. a dream of a homeland for a downtrodden group of people who had suffered too much for too long.

The people who already lived in the land soon to be given as a new homeland, also had dreams. They planned on continuing to live there as their forefathers had for centuries.

Anyone who has read history, knows that lots of trickery and obfuscation goes on when land is to be ceded to or taken from people.

Everyone ends up getting less than they were told, and MORE problems than they were warned of.

The people who draw lines on paper, and create flowery-languaged documents, are NOT the ones who have to live day-to-day with the consequences.. They have a signing celebration, pat themselves on the back, drink some chanpagne, and high-tail it for their home country..

These same people cannot understand why things never work out like they planned.. :puke:

To understand more :

read about how Diego Garcia became a US military base
read about how Hawaii became a US possession/territory/state
ask any Native American how it works
or India/Pakistan/Kashmir/Bangladesh natives


People in power create the framework of laws that allow them to do all kinds of devious things to people less educated as they are. They sleep well, knowing that what they did was "legal"... the people whose lives were irrevocably "changed" don't sleep so well..