“Dogs aren’t born mooing, and people aren’t born gay.” (Focus On Family)

[kpete]

“Dogs aren’t born mooing, and people aren’t born gay.”

Some scientific insight from James Dobson’s Focus on the Family, in response to a new campaign called BornDifferent.

Dobson has launched a counter-campaign.

On Tuesday, Focus unveiled its new "straight" puppy Web site, www.no-moo-lies.com, featuring a basset hound named Sherman, who barks as biology intended. During a news conference, a Focus employee dressed in a dog suit, who serves as a mascot at the group's visitors center, made a brief appearance.
http://www.family.org/cforum/sherman/

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/20/dogs-arent-born-mooing-and-people-arent-born-gay/
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4854011,00.html

[NYCGirl]

1. These people are certifiable!

:crazy:

[Skidmore]

2. Wow, that's an astounding bit of logic, isn't it?

Bet the person who thought that up really was pleased with how clever they thought they were being.

[meegbear]

3. And people aren't born Christian either ...

is that why you "recruit" them by having them reborn?

[Jawja]

34. Exactly.

Belief in religion is a choice; belief in a religion that uses the concept of "god" to discriminate and persecute others is a WRONG choice.

Choosing to believe in a narrow minded, punitive, hateful "god" doesn't give the believer the right to force others to make the same choice.

[darkmaestro019]

47. Exactly. One of my most beloved friends

who is viciously, violently queer : ) has a shirt that says

BEING A BIGOT IS DEFINITELY A CHOICE


Those it's meant for do not seem to appreciate it, but he's too scary-looking to approach. (sigh)


Oh, to be scary-looking, lol........

[jonnyblitz]

43. !!!!!

:loveya: :hi:

[ck4829]

4. Apples to oranges

Horrible analogy

[Hugin]

5. I don't remember being born able to do much of anything.

It's all I could do to climb up to my mother's pouch.

[Fleshdancer]

20. too true. Humans aren't born as walkers and chewers!

:crazy:

[mopinko]

6. i think most of our personality is in our genes.

not that we aren't shaped by our environments for good or ill, but even the ways we will respond to that are in our genes.
my experience as the mom of 5, they are born who they are.

[shrike]

11. My sister agrees

She's got three wonderful daughters, but she told me recently, "They come out either good or bad, I don't think I had much to do with it."

I also think you hit the nail on the head: people respond to their environment ACCORDING TO THEIR GENES. Which explains why some are made better by adversity and some are made worse . . .

[mopinko]

24. i just have to look around my family

we are so much alike, all of us. i have a big family. they are all very smart, but also all have all the bad baggage that can come with these gifts. not that they aren't individuals. but it is crazy how the cousins resemble each other.

[Bill McBlueState]

7. AND people aren't born believing in...

an all-powerful man in the sky who judges you based on your adherence to the law code of an ancient desert tribe. Maybe Dobson should spend millions trying to abridge the rights of people who believe stuff like that.

[EST]

8. The human ability to self-delude and to swallow,

in enormous gulps, the most outlandish, vapid fertilizer is truly amazing!

[Swamp Rat]

9. Dobson cannot stop talking about homosexuality

[Tsiyu]

10. Oh, for Christ's sake

Obsessed with gayness there, DR. Dumbass?

Actually, Dobson always sounded like he might be closet material. He is no doubt deathly afraid the world will find out.

And by the way, Jimmy Dee, my male dogs hump one another. Should I pray for them?

[jobycom]

12. How does he explain gay dogs, then?

Homosexuality, both physical and emotional, has been demonstrated in almost every species of animal studied for it. Has Hollywood and Bourbon Street corrupted dogs in Timbuktu, or is there maybe some actual natural physiological element to it?

Either way, Dobson could help families a lot more by starting a web page calling for higher wages, more control of corporations, and better health care. I can promise you more families are destroyed by money issues than by a gay couple getting married three blocks away.

[bleedingheart]

17. or dogs that hump human legs???? Tell me...is Hollywood to blame???

:silly:

Dobson is a hate filled freak.

[wtmusic]

21. There are still some dogs

which Jesus hasn't saved :crazy:

[darkmaestro019]

48. you! YOU for president! That was more sense than I've seen

in the last month of Sundays from our ACTUAL governing parties.......

[jobycom]

51. I accept! Now, get 52 million more to agree with you...

[WCGreen]

13. Blow hards using bovinean creatures as a pawn....

[Fleshdancer]

14. what a ridiculous analogy

what in the world does animal speech patterns have to do with sexual orientation? Utilizing that logic, the cat of a childhood friend that use to bark instead of meow would debunk that insane logic anyway. :eyes:

Yes, we get it. FOF hates gay people. Not a big surprise there, but do they really think the "people aren't born gay" strategy is the smartest strategy to use for promoting their bigotry? Do they really want to defend their own orientation by having to respond to the theory that they weren't born straight?

Nevermind. Logic has nothing to do with hate. I keep forgetting this very important point.

[shain from kane]

45. I've seen cats that could actually say a few words in English. They

imitate the sounds that they hear. And dogs that were trying to talk back to their owners.
And we won't even go into parrots.

[sweetheart]

62. they even say black sheep shouldn't breed with white sheep

These stupid analogies to farm animals is fantastic and bogus, for all the
gay, war loving dogs out there smoking cannabis on veterans disability benefit,
or welfare mothers selling some crack on the side, like pilot whales drop shit
on to the ocean floor. :-)

[Cha]

15. Wanna bet?

The second part anyway..and why bring dogs into it?

[burythehatchet]

16. Focus on Your Own Damn Family

[Jacobin]

18. That's what I thought...

These focus on family people are closeted gays who have to strive every day not to be sexually attracted to the same sex.

I happen to be straight. I don't have to strive not to be attracted to the same sex. It doesn't occur to me.

They need to get a life, deal with their sexual impulses in an honest way and stop making the rest of us bored with their BibleSciencePsychologyClapTrap.

[shrike]

19. Don't think he's spent much time on a farm

Dogs may not moo, but there is plenty of inter-species bonding going on. Dogs pal around with cats, the pigs and the cows get to like each other. And hell, what do humans and their pets do but bond?

I think it was the great racehorse Seabiscuit that had a goat friend in his stall. Though I may be thinking of another horse.

Oh, and by the way, females who've lost their young have been known to nurse and rear those of other species. An extreme example is my husband's (male) dog who took on a litter of kittens. Obviously they had to be bottle-fed, but he did all the rest.

[tridim]

22. I wasn't born saying "Fuck you Dobson"

But I say it all the time now.

[Atman]

23. Dogs, pigs, even tigers, have been know to nurse/raise other species

Is that "as nature intended?"

Piercing your clit isn't "as nature intended."

Cutting your hair isn't "as nature intended."

Tatoo? That isn't "as nature intended."

Going through life celibate? That isn't "as nature intended."

Driving a car to church probably isn't that "natural" an activity, either.

In fact, reading the bullshit of a bloviating bigoted blowhard on the internet isn't "as nature intended" either, "Dr." Dobson, you fucking imbecile.

[liberalmuse]

25. If I ever want to hear the dumbest analogies ever...

I'll just ask a republican. Here's todays analogy quiz:


HELMET : FOOTBALL :: broom : _____

1. dustpan
2. straw
3. cleaning

Republican Answer: Box Turtle
Liberal Answer: #1, because Ann Coulter isn't on the list.

[truth2power]

46. That's a keeper! Thanks for the laugh...

Note to self: Strive to find humor somewhere every day. :evilgrin:

3. cleaning

[BlooInBloo]

26. IT DOESN'T MATTER IN THE LEAST....

... whether homosexuality is a choice, or whether it's genetic (or whatever).

This is one of the best examples of progressives falling for a "conservative narrative" (as Peter Daou puts it) in existence.

There's nothing WRONG with homosexuality IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The only serious reason to be in a "debate" over born-gay/chose-gay is because of a tacit admission that there is something wrong with being gay in the first place. Roughly, the idea is that if one is born-gay, then one cannot be BLAMED for being gay. If, on the other hand, one is chose-gay, then one CAN be blamed for it - just like a person is responsible for any other of their choices.

But the whole "debate" is predicated on there being something wrong with being gay in the first place - the debate itself concerns whether or not the gay person is to be blamed for the "bad thing".

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING GAY. Therefore, IT DOESN'T MATTER IN THE LEAST whether a person is born-gay or chose-gay. There's nothing wrong with liking ice cream. It doesn't matter in the least whether I chose to like ice cream, or I was born liking ice cream.

I haven't the faintest idea whether gay folks were born such, or chose it. I do know, however, that it doesn't matter in the least. There's nothing wrong with it, and the question implicitly assumes that there is. Progressive-minded folks would do well to refrain from falling for the right's narratives.

[darkmaestro019]

49. (buys you a beer)

That's my bitch. How does it matter? You choose or you're chosen; it IS WHAT IT IS.

Being mad at reality is awful two-year-old for adults to be engaging in. I can't remember who.....I want to say a golden-age Hollywood actress, but I may be wrong, said along the lines of "Disapproving of gay people is kind of like disapproving of rain."


You're dead-on right but I'd never put that frustration into words quite as neatly as you have. Thank you.

[BlooInBloo]

63. I just hate it when our side buys into the jilted lingo/scenario THEY...

... make up...

Makes it a lose/lose for us. But we keep spinnin our wheels against it, and then can't understand why we lose after fightin SOOOO hard - LOL!

There's nothing wrong with being gay. THEREFORE it doesn't make one whit of difference whether it's biological or chosen - in the typical context in which the question arises (which is about 99.9% of all conversations on the issue).


EDIT: And thanks for the kind words - it's nice to know someone out there has thought about the matter in such a way.... :toast:

[kestrel91316]

27. He should tell that to my cousin Ervin.

Born into a family of ranchers, law enforcement officers, miners, and truck drivers, by the time he was 7 (and I was 4) it was obvious even to me that Ervin was gay. And I didn't even know the name for it yet.

His brothers all turned our very masculine. But Not Ervin. He liked toy sewing machines and later, women's purses. He had a boyfriend, not a girlfriend.

Unfortunately, Ervin killed himself when he was in his late 20s. I guess it was all that Christian love and forgiveness out in the world that he just couldn't take.

[dsc]

32. such a sad story

I hope he has found peace and that you have as well.

[Smarmie Doofus]

28. And fundamentalists aren't born stupid; they become that ...

way.

[Ravy]

29. Dogs *are* born Republican though...

but after a few days they open their eyes and switch parties.

[sinkingfeeling]

30. And people certainly aren't born 'haters'! That appears to be taught to

them by 'christian' churches!

[ismnotwasm]

31. And right wing wing nuts

Are born without a brain they can access to actually think with. They somehow function on some sort of feedback loop devoid of anything like basic common sense.

A Dog suit. Mooing dogs. Whatever.

I don't see their point since homosexual animals are all over the place. Always have been.
http://magdalenefoundation.com/nature-animal-homos.html

Typical idiocy.

[terrya]

33. That makes no fucking sense whatsover.

But of course this is coming from the hatemongers at Focus on the Family, so quelle surprise, I guess.

[area51]

35. This sounds like something that belongs in "The Onion".

Republinazis = insane.

[ProfessorGAC]

36. Dogs Aren't Born Fetching Sticks Either

But, they do it on instinct as they get older. Nobody has to teach a dog to run after and return a stick.

They don't come out the womb BARKING either, you idiot! That comes days later, but that doesn't mean it's a biological anomaly when they start barking.

They do both of those, because that's what dogs do. So, much for that theory Jimmy-boy.
The Professor

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. Reminds me of what they used to say about interracial couples

"Dogs don't mate with cats." :eyes:

This is just as uh, ridiculous.

[Ellen Forradalom]

38. Wow, is that man obsessed

If I spent as much time thinking about sex as he does, I'd never get anything done. Oh, wait a sec..never mind.

[Swede]

39. Let me see the dog they taught to moo.

:shrug:

[shain from kane]

42. That would be a miracle from God. n/t

[Solly Mack]

40. Is he saying cows have a moo agenda?

That their mooing is evil and that barking is the way the good lord intended it to be but those damn america hating fringe cows are trying to turn barkers into moo'ers?

and can I get free milk if I sign on to the moo agenda?

I live with a basenji(the barkless dog) - while he doesn't bark you ought to hear him yodel. Wonder what Dobson thinks that means?

If Dobson got any dumber he'd have to be watered.

[darkmaestro019]

50. My houseplants are offended by that remark. ; ) nt

[Solly Mack]

52. I worried about that, I did. Seriously

I was looking at plants as I typed. It was such an unfair comment..to plants. Plants give us beauty and they actually have a function in life..whereas Dobson? No function.. he serves no purpose toward the betterment of the world whatsoever.

[shain from kane]

41. There is a huge diversity in dogs. Within the species. You don't compare

them to cows, which is another species. Straights and gays are diversified within their species, homo sapiens. Oh, did I say homo?

[Skittles]

44. I know people are not born biigoted assholes

I know THAT

[renate]

53. people aren't born straight, either

Boy would that be creepy, if a baby came out of the womb and immediately started to demonstrate heterosexual behavior.

If Dobson's not implying that that's what normal/straight babies are supposed to do, the analogy is completely invalid (it was always stupid).

[Bretttido]

54. People aren't born speaking english you fucking douche bag!!!

Nor are they born wanting to fuck the toddler next to them. Thats where growing up comes in! Go swallow some liquid draino for us you miserable piece of shit!!!

[GreenPartyVoter]

55. Dobson makes me seethe with rage. He is so sick!

[Odin2005]

56. Dobson's pulling the Essentialist's Fallacy.

He's using the same outdated logic that the RCC uses when Pope Benny condemns homosexuality. It is thinking of humanity in terms of an idealized type that is declared "normal" instead of a population of genetically unique individuals. It basically originated with Plato and dominated Western thought until Darwin forced people to see species as populations, not types. If you are gay then being gay IS natural for you.

[ronnykmarshall]

57. Where's PETA when you need them?

This shit is animal abuse.

[shain from kane]

58. But, Mr. Dobson, they do "moo", in their own unique doggy-style. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

59. "Data was submitted to the journal Nature for publication."

"Editors at Nature did not return our phone calls."

[brooklynite]

60. Here's what I SERIOUSLY don't understand about this theory...

If we are to assume that this is true, then we also have to assume that people have been voluntarily "turning gay" all the way back to the days of the Old Testament. Do the Conservatives believe that's there been an organized, ongoing "gay conspiracy" for 4,000-6,000 years? And if so, why do they think it exists, since, up until today's "enlightened" period, an avowed homosexual stood a pretty good chance of being stoned or burned at the stake. Don't seem to have ever been any terribly good membership benefits...

[LittleClarkie]

61. No, but people are born with blue eyes instead of brown

The anology doesn't even make sense. We're not talking about being born a different species. Just having a different characteristic.

[Beelzebud]

64. And people aren't born religious fanatics.