I think all this 'rapture' crap is just a fear of death.

[Lindacooks]

These wingnuts who think the rapture is weeks or days away are simply afraid to die. They think the rapture is a 'get out of death' card that will spare them any pain or suffering. They really want to believe that they can avoid one of the laws of nature, that everything has to die, with this crackpot story.

I think that's the real basis for believing that crap.

And I only hope that I have the time to say 'I told you so' before the world blows up and everything disappears.

[bowens43]

1. ALL religion is compensation for fear of death.

[Lindacooks]

2. Yes, I know that. But really look at it - they think they are just

going to fly up to heaven without undergoing any kind of trauma at all. Just sitting there in front of the TV, and start floating up to heaven.

[unpossibles]

4. interesting angle

and I "love" how they don't care if millions of innocent people die in the process.

[SoCalDem]

15. Wouldn't it be delicious if after they get raptured

the find out it's all just been for a huge smackdown and a trip to the celestial woodshed...and they have to spend eternity looking down as the Mexican housekeeper moves her family into their Mcmansion, and Carlos the teenaged son is now driving the hummer....:)

now Theres a screenplay I would like to see written...

Title:

Rapture-PSYCH!

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. !

:crazy: Also self serving, delusional and selfish.

[Bill McBlueState]

6. hm, the "up" concept is odd, too

Your wording got me thinking about that. They have these visions of floating "up" to something. But, up to what? Eventually, they'll leave the atmosphere and either suffocate or get radiation poisoning.

I wonder if they've considered that they should be going around in spacesuits 24/7 if they really want to survive their rapture.

[AlienGirl]

18. Not always

Much of it is the attempt to express, in terms understandable by others, the experience of an unusual state of consciousness. This state has been called "the oceanic state" or "enlightenment" or "ego-death" or "the Kingdom of Heaven." Unfortunately, it doesn't translate well into words.

Tucker

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. not that hard to translate --

Ever been so drunk you had to hang onto the grass to keep from falling off the earth?

You feel like you're falling 'up'.

You also might feel like you wish you were dead.

Conflate 'dead' with 'falling up'.

Voila - miraculous ascension.

[AlienGirl]

31. Not quite the same state

[ComerPerro]

45. The first reply said it all

[EST]

3. I trust this is not the first time this idea has occurred to you?

[Lindacooks]

11. Actually, it is. What of it?

[arcane1]

7. makes them feel special, too...

they can get back at all the people who made fun of them, hurt their feelings, whatever...

"God chose ME! I'm special! You're not!"

fuck em all

[jus_the_facts]

14. Hell YEAH....

....ironically I'm readin' a book called "Last Things"by David Searcy...it's about these scarecrows turing up in this town in Texas..it's like summer in the winter...with temps like they are now but instead of July it's Decemter and everyone starts thinkin' it's the end of the world...but the fundies in town say these things are 'blessed' and this is what the Rapture really looks like...but the scarecrows are stuffed with the entrails of little animals instead of straw...haven't finished it yet but it's trippin' LMAO!!! :D

:hi: :*

[arcane1]

16. wow, what a whacky book idea!

I like it :)

[jus_the_facts]

17. It's out there BAD...but s'been a good read so far....

....threadjackin' here but hope all's well with you m'dear! :evilgrin:

[arcane1]

19. all is, indeed, well

:D

[donco6]

8. I think it's fear of meaninglessness.

Fundies believe that only God creates purpose. After all, "He has a plan for YOU!" as the old Chick tracts used to say. Heaven and afterlife are just ways to believe that God will Make Everything Right in the End. Though you couldn't smite that bully in this life, God has been watching and he'll make sure he gets his comeuppance.

[leftofthedial]

9. religion is a fear of death

rapture is narcissism--of course, jesus will come back in MY lifetime.

[rzemanfl]

10. I think it is a fear of life too. The few minutes I have spent looking

at the posts on "Rapture Ready" suggest to me that these folks are losers who are desperate to be rid of their humdrum lives and their responsibilities.

[Minnesota Libra]

12. It's the neocons/fundies being able to feel so much more superior.........

.....to everyone else because they are going to be "raptured" and therefore, the neocons/fundies supposedly won't be left to suffer with the rest of us horrid sinners.

[Emit]

20. What you say hits the nail on the head here

While I also agree with a couple of other posters about some of these end timer folks being fearful of death or not being able to cope well enough with their current lives, what you wrote is very apropos to a post I just read over at another discussion board that I frequent. Here's a snip ( I often am left speechless after reading clirus's posts--reading his/her posts sheds some light onto this end time belief stuff -- if I can even stomach it enough to read to the end of the post, that is.):

From the NOW, PBS board:
clirus wrote:

Atheistic Lifestyle

Bill Moyer started his Faith and Reason PBS show with two profound questions, "How do you think the people left behind felt when the Noah closed the doors of the Ark? Don't you think they would be looking for a new god?

I believe the people left behind found a new god (Satan) a long time before the doors of the Ark was closed. They realized they had chosen the wrong god when the water started to rise as Noah had told them would occur because Noah had listened to God. These discussion is profound because the question always remains, "What do you do with the person that makes the wrong choices?"

God no longer kills the person that makes the wrong choices although many are dying from AIDS and STDs, but He has hell prepared for those that make the wrong choices. Throughout the Bible God clearly makes decisions about what is good and what is evil. Good is always rewarded and evil is ultimately punished.

Atheistic liberals would like everyone to think the persons left behind are innocent victims of a mean God. Afraid not, Noah worked on the Ark for many years and they mocked Noah for listening to God. They made the choices, thus they reaped what they sowed. Now days, the Bible is available to everyone and Christians are mocked for listening to God. People are making choices, thus they will reap what they sow.

Atheistic liberals would like everyone to think Christians should take care of those that make wrong choices. I don't believe that. There are plenty of people that God places on this earth for Christians to exercise Christian Charity. Nothing would please Satan more than for Christians to spend all their time serving the tables of the poor that Satan has placed at the table of the poor through wrong choices.

Do people make the wrong choices because they are deceived by Satan, or do they really ignore and reject God? It really doesn't matter does it. When the doors on the Ark were closed, there was only a concern for the righteous not the unrighteous. Christians have a responsibility to teach and preach Jesus, in the hope that the Atheists will accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

This subject has major political implications because the democratic party advocates socialism which makes the government the benefactor of the people of wrong choices. The government does not require repentance from those who make the wrong choices, but taxes everyone to pay for the people who make the wrong choices. By voting for a democratic candidate you are subsidizing sin.

~snip~

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=58824

[RC]

25. If this Christian god was really capable of making the Heavens and

the Earth and everything in it, why is (s)he so narcissistic as to demand to be worshiped? It would seem to me this Deity would be beyond mere human emotions.

[Lindacooks]

32. That's been my question too.

If I were a deity (tongue in cheek, of course), I would be effing sick of people worshiping me while all around them others are suffering, starving, and being killed. MY Jesus is screaming 'quit singing songs to me and get off your butts and start helping others!'

[karlrschneider]

41. Heinlein's character Jubal Harshaw wondered about that too.

And was fairly prescient with his observations about the Fosterites. ;-)

[Syncronaut Seven]

50. Why I have Jubal right here in front of me!

In fact, Mike just asked about the Fosterites!

Fifth or sixth read or something like that. :)

Heinlein:
How to start a religion, how to fight a revolution, how to love, how to live, forever.

Miss Bob, :( One unique cat he was.

[Minnesota Libra]

27. Aren't they going to have the shock of their lives when............

....WW III starts and they are still here to enjoy every last bit of it right along with the rest of us???

Of course it will never occur to them that they were all wrong about the "rapture". Instead, I predict they will be convinced they weren't religious enough and they will be enough more rabidly religious. I think the division between the rabidly religious and the rest of us will deepen even further and that life for us will get really ugly.

[RaleighNCDUer]

36. That is some scary sick shit.

And there are too many out there who wholeheartedly believe it.

[Emit]

37. It is.

And there is no reasoning with her/him.

[zanne]

13. Why can't the rapture happen just to them?

They go to right-wing heaven, we're happy and we don't have to put up with their bullshit anymore.

[KansDem]

21. "Crap" + "rapture" = "crapture"

I think you're on to something here!

[tocqueville]

22. why hasn't anyone organized a "rapture show" yet ?

find a fundie neighbourhood, do it at night with some pyrotechnics to start and helium-filled blow-up dolls wearing white robes dipped in phosphorescent paint. End with a magnesium flash.

that's must be the ultimate prank....

and all those guys falling on their knees ... "why not me, why not me"

[gratuitous]

23. At the risk of being contrarian

I see religion as a freeing from self-absorption, rather than fear of death or fear of meaninglessness.

Anyway, the rapture folks impress me as being fearful of death, but also quite narcissistic: All of human history, indeed all of time and creation, has been a prelude to its acme and pinnacle, me the believer. God put this incredible shitstorm together just to pull me out in the nick of time. Praise God! Instead of religion freeing the believer from self-absorption, it has instead raised it to perhaps its highest expression. If the rapturists were any more self-absorbed, they would elevate themselves to godhood.

Their concern for other humans is totally obscured by their anticipated deus ex shitstorm, and the only reason they consider other humans at all is as fodder for the last great battle. It's really quite juvenile and, for those of us truly concerned about the carnage, more than a little depressing. When I'm confronted with these folks, I try to point them to Amos 5:18-24, a passage which seems to get overlooked a lot by the Left Behinders.

[karlrschneider]

24. Well, Duh.

Sorry, no offense intended, but it's pretty obvious I think. (And besides, how could we know whether or not other species - like our doggies & kitties- might have some faint grasp of their own mortality and think of us as 'deities'...?)

[Lindacooks]

28. If it's so obvious, why is this the first post I've seen about it?

Other posts have simply called the rapture believers 'nuts'. This is an attempt to actually define what they are trying to escape or avoid.

[karlrschneider]

40. Well, with no offense to the OP, it's hardly a new take on the phenomenon

It was discussed in considerable depth 15 years ago in other venues, notably in "Holysmoke" on the old
FIDO network (before the internets)...

[AlienGirl]

35. Chimp religious rituals observed by Jane Goodall

http://www.science-spirit.org/article_detail.php?article_id=229

Elephants seem to have a religion or proto-religion that involves keeping the memory of dead friends and family members alive.

Tucker

[karlrschneider]

38. That's a fascinating little piece...thanks.

K

[tocqueville]

26. I want to believe

yep that's Fox Mulder....

[abluelady]

29. Isn't that What Belief in God Is For? n/t

[Lindacooks]

33. No, everything living has to die.

Everything alive on earth has to go through the dying process; it's a law of nature. These people want to escape that inescapable end through a physical rapture.

[abluelady]

34. But if you Believe in God and Heaven

Doesn't that make death easier. Of course we all die, but wouldn't it be nice to have something to look for--perhaps not the rapture but for many people heaven is an equivalent.

[Lindacooks]

39. You're still missing my point. They want to escape the

PHYSICAL act of death. And yes, while believing in an afterlife may make death easier, it can still be full of all-consuming pain and suffering.

[abluelady]

46. I Didn't Realize What the Rapture Was.

You mean you just "go" somewhere in the same physical shape you're in at the moment?

[Lindacooks]

47. Yes. You are sitting at home, or driving in your car, or shopping,

or at work, and you literally physically float 'up' to heaven. That's what the 'Rapture' is.

[abluelady]

48. I'm Glad I Don't Believe

I would worry myself to death if I were having a bad hair day and the rapture came. lol

[Lindacooks]

49. LOL - me too!

btw, I ain't goin' anywhere without my cats.

[RebelOne]

42. So-called Christians hang on their beliefs of God and Jesus

because they think that they will be going to a better place after death. I'm sorry to inform all you Christians that the only place you will be going is 6 feet under.

[knitter4democracy]

43. I think it's more a fear of life and suffering.

They're so scared that life's going to get harder and that they might suffer that they use this as an out. I knew people in college who seriously stopped planning more than five years in advance because they were convinced that the Rapture would happen before that--and yet, they were very closed off people, scared to enter into real, long-term relationships and quite emotionally stunted.

[Lindacooks]

44. Yes, I think you're right. Fear of life, death, and total narcissism

seems to sum it up pretty well.

[knitter4democracy]

51. It's odd, though.

They'll also go on and on about how their belief in Jesus gives them freedom (many choruses and hymns to that effect). They just never seem to actually be that free to me.