Hizbollah leader declares "We have not been harmed." *WE*???

[bigtree]

http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=5177900

I couldn't find ANY sympathy or support for Hizbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah as he gloated about his escape from Israeli bombs. I was struck by they way he emphasized that he and his cohorts were unharmed, as if his group's militants weren't firing missiles from residential areas full of innocent men, women, and children; taunting the Israeli forces, daring them to fire back.

Israel did fire back, killing hundreds of the people of the country Hizbollah claims to be defending.

I understand how the Lebanese have looked to Hizbollah as a protector, especially in the face of the US abandonment of their promise to protect Lebanon's citizen's fledgling independence. But, I don't believe that Hizbollah's leaders have the safety and welfare of the Lebanese at heart. I think they are more than willing to provoke attacks from Israel that they know will affect innocent Lebanese more than they will impact them and their organization. That's despicable.

I feel that if Hassan Nasrallah had any concern at all for the Lebanese he would not be declaring open war with Israel with the citizens as surrogates. All of that doesn't excuse Israel's devastating reprisals, but Hizbollah knows well who will bear the brunt of their militarism and murder. The people of Lebanon deserve better than such a self-serving, callous representative as Hizbollah.

[cali]

1. Well said n/t

[mmonk]

2. the question bears a response.

What support does Hezbollah have in Lebanon? A minority support in my estimation. Remember Lebanon has been devastated in the past with the conflicts between the various factions. The government ultimately didn't want another civil war, so for that reason and generally being weak and fragile, they were somewhat limited though they have called for their disarmament. In any instance, no leveling of Lebanon can be justified for Hezbollah or Israel or in the name of anything.

[displacedtexan]

3. What Cali said!

Major kudos, bigtree!

[bryant69]

4. He's an Ideologue

Presumably he believes that in the long run, his survival will help the lebanese people more than them living would.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Karmakaze]

5. Remember the picture fo the little girls....

writing on Israeli artillery shells? Where do you think that artillery unit was? Wouldnt be near civillians would it? I mean unless the IDF trucks in little girls to sign their artillery shells, you have to assume it was.

[cali]

7. Huh?

Not only did your comment make no sense; it had zip to do with what the OP wrote.

[Mass]

31. Two wrongs do not make a right. It is amazing how some cannot

bring themselves to condemn Hezbollah.

And kudos to the OP.

[cgrindley]

6. That didn't make any sense

I understand how the Lebanese have looked to Hizbollah as a protector, especially in the face of the US abandonment of their promise to protect Lebanon's citizen's fledgling independence.


You realize that if the US hadn't abandoned its promise to protect the Lebanese democracy, then that would have meant that it would be the US and not Israel who would b fighting Hezbollah right now? Hezbollah is the biggest threat to Lebanese democracy, as in the last week, its actions have directly lead to Israel bombing Lebanon. Lebanon should rope in these terrorists and conform to the two UN resolutions telling them to do just that.

[bigtree]

9. They have a choice between Hizbollah, Syria, or the US

or, we could help bolster the Lebanese military with an international force. It's not possible to stand back anymore and just declare who we are against. There has to be some way to preserve Lebanon's independence without an all-out takeover of the country by one of the actors.

I'm personally relieved that the US stood down from intervening after the killing of Harri. I was frantic to learn as much as I could to advocate against that. I don't see much benefit in asking Syria back after the mess they had getting them to leave.

I think they will have to opt for some sort of international force and fight like hell to preserve their sovereignty in the process. No easy answers.

[cgrindley]

14. The UN would be ideal

The best thing would be a 25 mile buffer zone in Southern Lebanon. Demilitarized and patroled by the UN. Unfortunately, neither Hezbollah nor Israel seem to want to stop fighting any time soon.

[lastliberalintexas]

8. Well, he and his organization have not been harmed

In fact, they'll likely have even more recruits after this fiasco, so being the zealous nutcase that he is, he's probably pretty damn happy about now.

And for the record, I think that most of the leaders of both sides are zealous nutcases who care more about power, money, their cause and their God than they do about their people. Ditto for many of the leaders in the US, Sudan, etc. Religion basically sucks.

[mmonk]

10. It's not all about religion.

Definitely between the US and UK, its about control of the region for economic purposes. Religion is what is used to get people on one's side. Just as Hezbollah's use of it.

[lastliberalintexas]

13. Which is why I included power and money

Bush, Blair, and even most of the leaders in the Middle East could give a shit about any so-called God. But whether they are true believers themselves or are merely able to USE the true believers, religious zealotry is a large reason that this situation is allowed to continue by so many of people of that are. Ergo, my statement that religion pretty much sucks. Without the blinder of religion, the people would probably think much more rationally about the situation and call their "leaders" on the carpet.

[mmonk]

25. Yes. History shows evil uses religion, again and again.

And again and again, the ignorant religious masses follow and commit crimes against their fellow man.

Gott Mit Uns

[The Stranger]

11. His group was able to get South Lebanon unoccupied after 19 years of

Israeli occupation. That is why they look to him.

And blaming them for bombing innocent civilians in areas where everyone knows there are no Hezbollah makes no sense. Blame him for what he does, not for what the IDF does.

[bigtree]

15. I saw the coverage of the 'militants' firing from the residential areas

That doesn't comprise all of the area that Israeli airstrikes devastated, but it is a despicable act to use innocent civilians as a sheild, which I believe the Hizbollah were/are doing.

As I stated, none of that excuses Israel for firing back into those residential areas in reprisal. They should have known that the attackers would be long gone. They must have known that innocents were in harm's way. But, Israel's tactic has been to fire right back, no matter that the area the rockets originated from is inhabited by innocents.

I remember well why the Hizbollah were welcomed to stay in southern Lebanon. I think they have just worn out their welcome.

[The Stranger]

22. Firing from the suburbs of Beirut at Israel?

Don't think so.

[cali]

16. Oh, please

this desperate attempt to paint H'zbollah in pretty pastel shades while excoriating the Israelis is absurd. They both deserve to be condemned and the OP makes perfectly valid points. There is no reason to believe that H'zbollah gives a damn for anything but its own dreams of power and control.

[The Stranger]

20. STATING THE FACTS is not "paint(ing) H'ezbollah in pretty pastel shades."

Nor does STATING THE FACTS constitute "excoriating the Israelis."

[Igel]

12. One newstory quoted a Lebanese woman saying,

"Nobody cares about Arab lives." She had in mind other countries.

However, she was mostly right. Hezbollah cares about power and religion--for them, there's little difference. Kill a couple of Israeli Arabs, and they're martyrs--they're rewarded when they get to heaven. Such is the reason for the death cult's continued existence: live for Islam's supremacy, or die for a greater reward.

Or as Hamas puts it, their fighters live for death, while the Jewish fighters fear death. A woman Hamas activist could run, saying simultaneously what a glorious thing it was for her sons to be killed in fighting the Zionists, and what a horrible crime it was for her sons to be killed. That's the utterance of somebody convinced that her kids' attempt to murder Israeli civilians was so much the right thing to do that stopping them was a crime against Allah. In fact, this is the usual response to killing jihadis: they're doing good things, and killing them is wrong--never self defense. Self-defense against the establishment of Islam is wrong, and they're seeking to establish Islam.

In some things, you can't take them at face value. For other things, the evidence is so clear they're saying exactly what they mean that denial is lunacy.

[sandnsea]

17. There are 2000 peacekeepers in southern Lebanon

Lebanon didn't need any protection from Israel, they needed to stop the rockets launched into Israel and ask for UN help if they couldn't do it.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4062680.html

[bigtree]

18. they still need this

those 'peacekeepers' are armed mainly with cameras to record events. I included an article about that in one of my posts. Their mission needs to be upgraded, but there is a caution about the US intentions for the force. The Bush regime wants them to have some sort of authority for the same kind of military muckraking as in Iraq. It will not be an easy thing to put it all together . . . if they even manage to stop fighting.

[sandnsea]

19. "protection from Israel"

That is specifically what I objected to. Lebanon does not need protection from Israel. They need to stop Hizbullah from launching rockets into Israel. They were supposed to ask for help if they couldn't stop it on their own and didn't. The French have a good proposal and there does need to be more peacekeepers, but the problem in southern Lebanon is 100% Hizbullah, not Israel. Israel is doing what the international community failed to do.

[bigtree]

21. You mean protected from Israel? They do need protection.

Israel needs to be stopped from killing Lebanese civilians in their defense or reprisals.

I don't know how I could have been any more clear about Hizbollah's responsibility.

[sandnsea]

24. That makes no sense to me at all

If Hizbollah weren't there, there'd be no war between Lebanon and Israel at all, correct? Lebanon has absolutely nothing to fear from Israel. They need protection from Hizbollah and the havoc they create in the region. Get Hizbollah out, Lebanon is safe. Period. Pretending anybody in that area has anything to fear from Israel is part of the problem and the anti-Israeli factions play it to the hilt. I thought Americans had that basic concept down, but I see here on DU that the anti-Israeli propaganda by Arab factions has worked much more than I ever imagined. There's no ability to consider the withdrawal from Gaza and Lebanon and that it hasn't helped. This isn't the same set of circumstances that existed 10 years ago, yet nobody seems to recognize the movement Israel has made. Very strange to me.

[bigtree]

26. I wonder who will determine if Hizbollah is out?

Is that even realistic?

Have you seen the destruction that Lebanese civilians suffered from Israel's reprisals? We may not be able to immediately stop Hizbollah, but there is more than enough opportunity to stop Israel from staging airstrikes in areas where there are concentrations of civilians. That's the protection Lebanese need from us now. I seriously don't know how to get to Hizbollah. I do know that it wasn't through the civilians who were killed by the airstrikes. They don't seem to have affected Hizbollah at all.

[sandnsea]

27. When rockets stop flying into Israel

That will be a pretty good clue that Hizbollah is out. When Israeli and UN troops patrol the streets peacefully, followed by Lebanese and UN troops, we'll know Hizbollah is out. It would be a relatively simple and quick thing to do, especially if the Lebanese govt had the guts to support it. Too bad it's looking like they're going to choose to fight Israel instead of doing what they promised to do 6 years ago when Israel pulled out.

[bigtree]

29. that's the myth that proponents of this militarism are trying to sell us

just give them the chance and they will use som overwhelming force and drive the rebel group into submission. I can't believe that after our own country's lesson in the 'cakewalk' of Iraq that some still believe that these deployments of heavy-handed, civilian-casualty-oriented military aggression will work to dislodge and neutralize an entrenched insurgency.

Only in the wet dreams of the neo conservatives will this strategy work.

[npincus]

23. you've got that right, bigtree

[plcdude]

28. I think we need to

do some homework here on this issue. It is too simplistic to start this issue with one act of agression by one party. Take a look at the history of Hezbollah and it might complicate the way you view approaches to peace between these people. See this for a starter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

[bigtree]

30. I don't need a history lesson. I'm not declaring who started anything.

Just expressing my opinion about what this group has done. The reasons they acted as they did is certainly emeshed in the sad history of conflict between the principles,